Altered Juice
Member
haha
IGN: Nathan Drake will use identical model in cutscene and gameplay.
- Thread starter Khalifa Jayy
- Start date
haha
boredandlazy
Member
It's literally a night and day difference.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Isn't The Order 1886 pretty much the only game that looks better than U4, and that is a corridor TPS from everything we've seen so far. Assuming that Ubi doesn't as usual downgrade the hell out of their games.
Idk, I see more differences, which I don't think have anything to do with the time of day in the pics.
Wet vs dry.
Always-honest
Banned
Sure. Wet, dry. Direct moonlight, indirect sunlight, etc. But maybe also differences in hair-detail. Hard to tell from that shot.
keltickennedy
Member
Yeah...because it IS different. One is from a cinematic captured in-engine made specifically for E3 to tease the game. And the other is from gameplay captured in-game (probably from a section straight out of the game).
There are definitley differences in the quality fo the lighting and shaders. Also the mesh itself looks different. The hair too, although that might be due to the "wet" state of it in the original trailer.
The jungle scene (and other jungle locales in the new gameplay footage) has deifnitely been hit with the dumbed down foliage stick... Is there such a stick? Well, if there is, it's been used on this
The jungle scene (and other jungle locales in the new gameplay footage) has deifnitely been hit with the dumbed down foliage stick... Is there such a stick? Well, if there is, it's been used on this
Ubisoft isn't making the Order 1886... Or am I misunderstanding your post..?
I recall many a PS4 fan claiming that thattrailer would be completely representative of actual gameplay, no even that the actual gameplay would be better because they would have time to make it look even better by release.
To which many an Xbone and PC fan scoffed.
Muppet of a Man
Member
They probably have a fixed poly model with scalable LOD shaders. In a realtime runtime environment, you kind of have to do these things.
Ryse had the same deal with PBR.
Ryse had the same deal with PBR.
Aren't shaders usually described by the mesh loaded in by the LOD system?
That would suggest that they would funciton like LOd usually functions: close up = higher quality, further away = lower quality (or complexity is probably the better term).
Lys Skygge
Member
I've been in my fair share of caves and realistically, light shafts don't appear very often in openings above. If the sun is somewhere directly above the opening then you can see light shafts...but in the demo not only is slightly overcast outside the caves, but the sun looks to be rising/setting. On overcast days soft light just tends to pool into the cave.
keltickennedy
Member
Okay.....but if Naughty Dog actually said that...then people would have a case. I mean, what "looks good" is subjective but the fact is that the original teaser was NEVER said to be direct gameplay.
I thought they DID say that, on a tweet or something?
Muppet of a Man
Member
There are definitley differences in the quality fo the lighting and shaders. Also the mesh itself looks different. The hair too, although that might be due to the "wet" state of it in the original trailer.
The jungle scene (and other jungle locales in the new gameplay footage) has deifnitely been hit with the dumbed down foliage stick... Is there such a stick? Well, if there is, it's been used on this
The model is exactly the same, as stated many times already by the developer. I don't believe ND ever said anything more than the teaser trailer was an in-engine cut scene running in real time on the PS4. That being said, relative to the competition and taking scope and verticality into account, there are no other games that currently look this good.
keltickennedy
Member
They said it was captured "in-engine". Seriously, do people actually know the difference between the two?
In-engine...
In-game...
But they arent. Not in many cases, especially in cases where You need high detail.
There is a reason why we are converting high poly models to using bumped mapped textures or use shaders to simulate cloth displacement instead of geometry.
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OR they are using higher geometry in cutscenes for wrinkles displacement for example, but in gameplay, they simulate them via shaders.
Drake looking like a Roman sculpture
JordanN
Banned
Wish I could find an actual moonlight/night pic but this was the closest I could find.
Edit: found a better pic
Now here's someone standing outside during a morning overcast.
Looks about right.
That is just not true. I woudl say Crysis 3 and Ryse both on PC look just as good, and better in some places. So does Star Citizen, though that's not out yet.
That doesn't mean this game doesn't look phenomenally though.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Yes, this happens in nearly all games, except most games also scale the number of polygons the actual character is composed of, as well.
Ryse and Uncharted 4 both don't scale the number of polys the model is composed of. But both scale the level of detail of the shaders.
You must do this when dealing with realtime game environments or else performance will be total and utter shit, even on high end pc gaming rigs.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Ryse does not have the same openness and verticality (i.e., scope in terms of FOV and playable game area) as this game does. Crysis 3 definitely does not look as good as Ryse (or Uncharted 4).
If you go back to the E3 thread or the reveal trailer, people seems to forgot the difference there but hey, no worries it seems that after PSX many already recovered from their temporal amnesia.
Not surprising. But, fanboys or not, I remember in the initial announcement thread, there were a shit load of people thinking the trailer was in-game footage running in realtime on a PS4, arguing their heads off.
People have incredibly unrealistic expectations for this game. Naughty Dog is just constantly fuelling their fire even after showing actual gameplay with lower quality graphics.
keltickennedy
Member
FINALLY...someone who gets it.
LOD is in every game, no matter which one it is..as for tessellation, on these consoles its a meaninglessly expensive technique as opposed to simply throwing on more poly's the old fashioned way, or using bump mapping
Are you sure they don't scale mesh complexity with LOD levels? That seems like a waste, specially since there are scenes during which there are enemies prety far off in the distance.
I only played Ryse for like 20minutes on my PC. I came, I saw, I drooled, then I realized how much of a terrible game that was and regretted my purchase.
Have you seen Crysis 3 on PC? The only substandard part in that game, in comparison to Ryse and Uncharted, are the human characters. The environments sure as hell looks better in many places compared to the latest gameplay we've seen of Uncharted.
Also, Star Citizen.
Muppet of a Man
Member
It is much more expensive to not scale per-pixel effects being rendering; not scaling the vertices being manipulated is not nearly as expensive (i.e., is doable with today's technology in realtime).
keltickennedy
Member
He is talking about games where cutscenes are rendered "in-engine". Of course those games have LOD levels.
You're preaching to the quire my friend. It's the PS4 fanboys in the original thread who claimed "in-engine" was sure to be "in game".
I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt.
How does it matter that Ryse doesnt have the same openness?
It only means they dont have less art in game and can differently manage LoD from time to time, but in terms of rendering it doesnt matter, because You can see for over 200-300 meters sometimes in Ryse or even further and You have scenes with more than 70 AI on screen.
More open areas means pretty bigger art team and slightly more problems with art consistency in development.
Ryse doesnt have LoD for main cast, it does of course have LoD models for roman soldiers and enemies.
GoW 3 and 4 did the same for Kratos. I think ND did the same for Drake in U2, but models wasnt the same as in cutscenes, just same across all distances in gameplay situations.
SystemUser
Member
Zero Punctuation coined the term as a joke I believe. Yahtzee is a PC gamer that is forced to review console games so he has mentioned it a few times. He doesn't take it seriously as the subreddit does though. The sub even uses the white jump suits and flowing white hair motif. I am definitely a console gamer, but they make funny images and gifs sometimes. It is really weird when they complain about people complaining that they use a term associated with the nazis to describe themselves.
No he isn't.
I agree with this, but it still seems silly to leave high quality meshes for object in the distance, even if it's just characters.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I think Crysis 3 probably has the best foliage rendering, but the all around graphics (including character models, soft body physics, certain aspects of lighting, animations, etc.) are definitely topped by both Ryse and Uncharted 4.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Don't just think GPU operations. Think system as a whole. Openness means game logic, ai, physics, animation systems have a bigger impact on performance because there is more to keep track of.
I agree, which is why I said it did a betetr job in places.
Combine Crysis 3's foiliage (they are foiliage kings... well mayeb the Wticher 3 cna dethorne), Witcher 3's fur, Uncharted's lighting... Wow. That owuld be an amazing looking game.
Muppet of a Man
Member
The number of vertices, even if not representable by the number of pixels on the screen at a distance, allow for the character to be more naturally animated.
Tessellation, AO, shadow resolution, shaders (sss mainly) or details like the sand in the eyebrowns could be argued as a different layer than polygon model.
http://www.flickeringmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Uncharted-4-A-Thiefs-End-HD-Wallpaper.jpg
http://i6.minus.com/iKIlpjzmPduRV.png
http://i.imgur.com/XOUMmTd.png
http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Uncharted-PSX-Gameplay.jpg
bananafactory
Banned
Can't wait for photo mode, all will be revealed!
Not really. You dont calculate many physics for stuff outside view range, like vegetation or cloth physics for example. Animations or AI? 60-70 character vs 7 in this demo is not really comparable, no matter how complex second are.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Man, I don't think I've ever seen an example of what you're talking about. Quite the opposite, actually, where you'll see certain folks (mostly banned around here) who would talk no end of shit about games on consoles and the people who chose to enjoy them there.
PC gaming evangelism is great. I'm primarily a PC gamer, but some of that stuff can be kind of annoying to look at.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
From what I've seen, the fact that it was a cinematic and gameplay would look very different was never mentioned or hinted at. Us who know how Naughty Dog rolls could certainly assume that, but they chose to reveal the game with cutscene footage that looked absolutely unprecedented in quality when it comes to real-time graphics in a video game. One of their higher up members then even said they wanted to make it look better in the final game, aim for the sky or something. Then there was all of the talk of targeting 1080p and 60fps for all PS4 games speaking within the context of the E3 footage.
Now, I never expected the gameplay to look like what they revealed, and of course it won't, but I can see why many people would get that impression.
Probably as annoying as it is for nintendo fans on the receiving end of the same at the hands of PS4 and Xbone gamers? And Xboen gamers at the receving end of PS4 gamers claiming superiority because "not 900p".
C'mon now. It's done by ALL fanboys. That's the thing. PC gamers have fanboys, PS4 gamers have fanboys, Xbone gamers have fanboys, Nintendo gamers have fanboys.
And yet you never see anyone reducing an ENTIRE fanbase to their fanboys, EXCEPT when it comes ot PC gamers.
But this thread is about Uncharted 3. Not this. Let's end it here.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Always-honest
Banned
Sorry but that downgradeton image means nothing to me yet. Let's judge game this at launch.
It's not like the game has any chance at looking bad. But maybe they can't reach this fidelity in closeups ingame. Maybe they can..
Those are the only moments when this amount of detail will make sense. So inengine cutscenes. LoD when actively playing will be less for obvious reasons (but we shouldn't see a transition at normal viewing distance)
We'll see. I'm allready hyped for the game. I was very impressed with what they showed. Lots of attention to detail, beautifull environments, clean, great animation, great gamplay and Drake allready looked good enough, asside from the hair (imo).
I hope Drake will look more consistent in Uncharted 4. I thought the differences between gameplay, cutscenes and prerendered were a bit to big in earlier Uncharted games. So no matter what the level of detail is, i hope they keep it consistent throughout the game.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Ryse literally has a fixed camera and FOV in many complex scenes, the reason being to save on performance (the same tactic used in God of War Games). Non-interactive NPCs don't really put a strain on system performance like interactive ones do.
There is a reason why open world games like Assassin's Creed, GTA, and Watch Dogs will never look as good graphically as more linear games. Not saying Uncharted 4 will be true open world, but it is looking much closer to it from what it used to be, at least in the area they demoed.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
The more geometry you have - the more you have to shade it. Passing a triangle with verts and flat shading is pretty easy (if we are speaking of purely how many triangles can pass through a GPU 's pipeline). Of course there are limits to the hardware (it can't pass infinite triangles through). But shading is way more computensive. A lot of the effects in shading games requires re-rendering the scene or storing several buffers, so that the GPU can comp them later. Imagine if the GPU had to actually evaluate the shading per-pixel with NO buffers like film (i.e brute force forward rendering) for every effect (including no post-processing AA)? You'd not have real-time.