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[Admiral Woofington]

Friend just posted on FB a write-up that said something like "how this show could change the history of children's cartoon!"

Jesus Christ. I mean I'm not disagreeing but if it's that simple....

 

[Mononoke]

How would it be structured? A couple episodes a week for discussion?

I was thinking about this. I think, it could be fun to do it live like as if it was on TV. But I also don't think people would want to wait 1 episode a week.

So we need to decide how many episodes at once we watch, and if we have it multiple times a week. The live format is good for two reasons:

I. It makes it fun, like we have a new show to watch again. And most of us never got to talk about ATLA with fans as it was airing.

II. People have busy schedules. So it's easier to get people to watch, and have that time to watch and then talk about it.

 

[BKatastrophe]

YeYeah I have nothing against gay people or characters in general it just kind of felt like "hey Korrasami shippers we did a thing for you." Just felt like pandering. Meanwhile the ignored villain got 1/5 of a paragraph of background. At least with the Buffy villains there was good back story and they were entertaining.

Well except for Adam and The Initiative in Season 4. I dub that season the "Season of Wasted Potential." Oz and The Initiative had so much to give yet. Instead we got episodes like Beer Bad and Where The Wild Things Are

But otherwise, I agree. Characters are the main reason why I like Buffy and Angel so much. They feel real. Hell, Willow is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. She's the best.

He was doing it during his coma between Crossroads of Destiny and Awakening. And you don't need to apologise.

Ah I see. Well, you'll let me apologize and LIKE it.

 

[Chariot]

Friend just posted on FB a write-up that said something like "how this show could change the history of children's cartoon!"

Jesus Christ. I mean I'm not disagreeing but if it's that simple....

Even small steps are steps. Maybe now, with a rather big positive respond to homosexuality we get some bolder tries. Or at least more tries.

 

[aly]

Review roundup for the series finale.

I feel like I watched a totally different finale. I guess I'm just that sour about Kuvira and shipping plots.

 

[Mononoke]

Review roundup for the series finale.


AV Club


IGN


Screencrush


TV.com

Honestly, I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will. I do get that, the finale as 44 min was entertaining. But this season as a whole, and the finale itself, really feels flat/dull and with nothing to say.

I don't understand how critics can give this glowing reviews, and not take issue with this season from a plot perspective. I follow some of these critics, and they would have hammered a live action drama for doing the same thing (plot wise).

I've come to terms with I. People not agreeing with me. II. That I did in fact, like the finale as a 44 min episode.

BUT...it still came off completely devoid of, resolution, conclusion, a plot that had any emotional impact or importance. And it was missing so much in terms of emotional pay off, and character resolution. It really really felt like an ending with nothing to say.

So yes, I did enjoy it. But damn. I don't get the praise. I just don't. Opinions, subject. Yeah. I'm not confused that people don't agree with me. It's just, I don't get the type of praise it gets. Hmm.

 

[Toa TAK]

Critics are clueless sometimes.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Even small steps are steps. Maybe now, with a rather big positive respond to homosexuality we get some bolder tries. Or at least more tries.

When it's two guys doing the same I'll cheer for that. Not because I disapprove of lesbians, but because I've always felt, without any data to back it up so chances are I'm wrong, that lesbians in the west are SO much more popular because media is ran by men and "chicks kissing are hot". Men kissing/being in a relationship seems to be a bigger deal, at least from what I see of friends/folks here in the South. That'll be what I conside a true victory.

 

[Hamlet]

I was thinking about this. I think, it could be fun to do it live like as if it was on TV. But I also don't think people would want to wait 1 episode a week.

So we need to decide how many episodes at once we watch, and if we have it multiple times a week. The live format is good for two reasons:

I. It makes it fun, like we have a new show to watch again. And most of us never got to talk about ATLA with fans as it was airing.

II. People have busy schedules. So it's easier to get people to watch, and have that time to watch and then talk about it.

Watching it live would be fun. But I think it might be difficult setting up a specific time to watch it live due to all of the different timezones people have on here.

 

[Shard]

Honestly, I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will. I do get that, the finale as 44 min was entertaining. But this season as a whole, and the finale itself, really feels flat/dull and with nothing to say.

I don't understand how critics can give this glowing reviews, and not take issue with this season from a plot perspective. I follow some of these critics that would have hammered a live action drama for doing the same thing (plot wise).

I can explain with a simple piece of acting advice, don't fuck up your first entrance or your final exit because that is what people will remember.

 

[Pappasman]

I was thinking about this. I think, it could be fun to do it live like as if it was on TV. But I also don't think people would want to wait 1 episode a week.

So we need to decide how many episodes at once we watch, and if we have it multiple times a week. The live format is good for two reasons:

I. It makes it fun, like we have a new show to watch again. And most of us never got to talk about ATLA with fans as it was airing.

II. People have busy schedules. So it's easier to get people to watch, and have that time to watch and then talk about it.

Ya, watching it live sounds like fun.

 

[CreeperBlocks]

I feel like Korra's issues can still be summed up using the same criticisms I've had since season 2.

1. The show really needed a central, longterm antagonist. Each season is around 5 hours, way too short to establish villains whose defeat the audience is invested in.

2. Korra herself isn't a compelling character, though she does find herself in compelling scenarios. She lacks significant moments of levity, and comes off as too self-serious to really enjoy as an MC. The show never really gave us an idea of what she does when she's not kicking butt/searching for more butts to kick.

3. Villains aren't complex enough. Every villain starts off in an intriguing grey-area before jumping head-first into crazyland. Unalaq went from Spirit-Rights-Activist to Satan, the Red Lotus went from freedom fighters to nomad beaters and Kuvira went from power-hungry uniter to Hitler.

4. The subplots are a huge mixed bag. The Pro-bending stuff in season 1 was lame, Kai was lame, most romances were lame. The best romance in the show by far was between a greedy madman and the woman he forces to clean his feet.

Agree?

This was my biggest problem with LOK. Villian of the season didn't work In this show

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Critics are clueless sometimes.

The AV Club is highly inconsistent with their reviews, depends a BIT too much on the writer and whether he/she is a fan. Which is silly to say, but when South Park has had its best season in ages and the critic can't stop shitting on it there's something wrong.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Makorra was horrible for a bunch of reasons that (thankfully) Korrasami is not afflicted with.

One has physical and verbal affirmation, but lacks subtlety and tact. The other has subtlety and tact, but lacks physical and verbal affirmation. Both aren't great.

In a truly progressive world, Mako is Korra's booty call and Asami is her emotional confidant. Polyamory ftw.

 

[Trey]

Y'know, the Legend of Korra was never something I'd call a kid's show. It would be like calling Boy Meets World a kid's show.

I could see it early on in AtLA's run, but it outgrew that description very quickly in my opinion. But Korra was definitely different from a kid's show tonally from the jump.

 

[BKatastrophe]

When it's two guys doing the same I'll cheer for that. Not because I disapprove of lesbians, but because I've always felt, without any data to back it up so chances are I'm wrong, that lesbians in the west are SO much more popular because media is ran by men and "chicks kissing are hot". Men kissing/being in a relationship seems to be a bigger deal, at least from what I see of friends/folks here in the South. That'll be what I conside a true victory.

Getting Away With Murder has a homosexual male. He's also quite aggressively sexual, so they've had a few scenes. Although I've only seen one episode. Also, Brooklyn Nine-Nine has a main character who is gay as well. My favorite character on the show, in fact.

 

[Mononoke]

The AV Club is highly inconsistent with their reviews, depends a BIT too much on the writer and whether he/she is a fan. Which is silly to say, but when South Park has had its best season in ages and the critic can't stop shitting on it there's something wrong.

It's just, that critic has hammered dramas for doing a lot less with their plot. I don't get the complete free pass this show gets.

Thing is, it's always been this way. Even Book 2 was pretty much free from any kind of criticism. Maybe it's because Western animation isn't as ambitious. And so Korra regardless of flaws, is really impressive. Maybe it's , just people being really massive fans.

But just in terms of critical analysis, I don't get it. I would be okay if people loved it. You can like something, and still find flaws. So that is what is strange to me. Just the complete universal love for it and critics never finding a single flaw. I mean that is their job.

Y'know, the Legend of Korra was never something I'd call a kid's show. It would be like calling Boy Meets World a kid's show.

I could see it early on in AtLA's run, but it outgrew that description very quickly in my opinion. But Korra was definitely different from a kid's show tonally from the jump.

It's not a kids show. Just in terms of like the network, and ratings...it falls under it. Which is why they would still get heavy pushback and have the limitations of a kids show rating.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Hmm. You have a point. I think my issue with Mako and Korra was just how slap dash and thrown together it was. Like go back and watch the Book 1 finale. How quickly Mako goes from being with Asami, to their romance at the end. Granted, they were going into the season thinking it was only going to have one season. That, it was the end of the show.

So that informed their writing. You are right though, to suggest that people being physically attracted, is shallow is not fair. I guess what I meant to say was, with Korra and Asami, they established this close relationship. They slowly showed how they became closer. So me, that foundation felt like more depth, then a typical romance in these kind of shows that happen based on attraction. But you are right, there is nothing wrong with that.

I think a better example is prob Bolins romance that kind of just happened.

I didn't enjoy Korra and Mako at all for reference but a big part of that is because the show originally wasn't suppose to be 4 seasons so the way it was written in S1 was different. I much more enjoyed the 3 minutes of Korra and Bolin's date than any other relationship in this show. Better chemistry and the characters had way more in common. Just shitty they made Korra suck and shit on Bolin (which is really a theme of the show).

I saw Korra and Asami getting closer but I thought it was much more implicit of them being good friends. I mean, there is no real reason to ship them until season 3 and to me it seemed like they were trying to establish them growing much closer, best friends per say. A lot of the situations they put Korra and Asami in would be more strange if it was a guy in Asami's place. That's why I viewed it more as "girl power, friends woot". It would be weird for Mako or Bolin to want to go with korra for rehabilitation, or for them to be combing her hair.

I dunno, maybe because I was viewing this through the context that I have friendships with people. I am a guy and I am more comfortable disclosing certain things to my close guy friends as opposed to my close girl friends. So a lot of the things people thought were shipping were just what I viewed as, "well, I get why she would write asami as opposed to Bolin and Mako".

 

[aly]

This was my biggest problem with LOK. Villian of the season didn't work In this show

I agree I wish they stuck with Amon or started off with Zaheer and company. Would've been so much better I think.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Getting Away With Murder has a homosexual male. He's also quite aggressively sexual, so they've had a few scenes. Although I've only seen one episode. Also, Brooklyn Nine-Nine has a main character who is gay as well. My favorite character on the show, in fact.

Sorry, let me emphasize. Children's cartoon. Closest I saw was in a Cartoon Network show where a lady is waiting for her date, sees a hot guy come in and gets excited, then the guy turns around to another guy and gives him a peck in the cheek and she goes "oh... well that's good though"

Apparently CN forced them to change it from a full on kiss, but little steps as you say.

 

[Daemul]

So Mako is such a shitty guy that he turned two girls lesbian? Great, I hate that guy.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

It's just, that critic has hammered dramas for doing a lot less with their plot. I don't get the complete free pass this show gets.

Thing is, it's always been this way. Even Book 2 was pretty much free from any kind of criticism. Maybe it's because Western animation isn't as ambitious. And so Korra regardless of flaws, is really impressive. Maybe it's , just people being really massive fans.

But just in terms of critical analysis, I don't get it. I would be okay if people loved it. You can like something, and still find flaws. So that is what is strange to me. Just the complete universal love for it and critics never finding a single flaw. I mean that is their job.



It's not a kids show. Just in terms of like the network, and ratings...it falls under it. Which is why they would still get heavy pushback and have the limitations of a kids show rating.

Some people are more lenient with their reviews of cartoons/anime by nature. For example, I am way more willing to forgive anime for faults I wouldn't allow in western cartoons.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Sorry, let me emphasize. Children's cartoon. Closest I saw was in a Cartoon Network show where a lady is waiting for her date, sees a hot guy come in and gets excited, then the guy turns around to another guy and gives him a peck in the cheek and she goes "oh... well that's good though"

Apparently CN forced them to change it from a full on kiss, but little steps as you say.

Ah I gotcha. I share your sentiment about how often it always seems to involve females whenever they do a plotline involving any sexuality that isn't hetero. Males are usually just minor characters, if present at all.

 

[Fj0823]

Friend just posted on FB a write-up that said something like "how this show could change the history of children's cartoon!"

Jesus Christ. I mean I'm not disagreeing but if it's that simple....

To be fair, anyone not a shipper will not see it beyond them being good friends.

We know its actually something more because we actually follow the creators and stuff.

Gotta say, I loved this series. I loved the characters, and I will always recommend it as a worthy sequel of the TLA. It managed to make the best of a tricky situation. And they made a show most current studios can't achieve with all the time and money in the world.

Hope you get back in some Cool comics Korra

 

[Kinvara]

I wouldn't worry about it because it actually wasn't implemented well.

There comes a point in time where the audience needs to actively question their preconceived ideas about characters.

For example, when reading a book a reader will imagine that the protagonist is white, straight etc. before the author has provided any explicit description about that character.

Does the burden lie on the author to ensure that the audience doesn't make these assumptions? No, I don't think so.

 

[Mononoke]

Some people are more lenient with their reviews of cartoons/anime by nature. For example, I am way more willing to forgive anime for faults I wouldn't allow in western cartoons.

Fair enough. This isn't like, me being mad that others don't agree with me. I am totally fine with my opinion not lining up with others. I'm also fine being in the minority. It's just, very rare to see a show or game like get zero criticisms at all. Like even if you do like it, surely it can have flaws?

And to me, just this entire season and like what the plot did, it's just crazy to me that no critic thought this was a flawed idea.

 

[aly]

To be fair, anyone not a shipper will not see it beyond them being good friends.

We know its actually something more because we actually follow the creators and stuff.

This brings up a question for me. How do people feel about creator and fan interaction an how it can influence the work( or at least the way people view it). Some shows I follow like Avatar, Adventure time, and Sherlock have big tumblr or fan communites with some interaction with creators. I did'nt know Korra/Asami or Bubblegum/Marceline were even things until I went there and looked. Or how big John/Sherlocke was and how hated the female characters were. Does that ever hinder or make people's enjoyment bigger?

 

[SilentMatthew]

.

Oh, so that's where this came from

 

[Toa TAK]

Oh, so that's where this came from

:')

 

[Admiral Woofington]

This brings up a question for me. How do people feel about creator and fan interaction an how it can influence the work( or at least the way people view it). Some shows I follow like Avatar, Adventure time, and Sherlock have big tumblr or fan communites with some interaction with creators. I did'nt know Korra/Asami or Bubblegum/Marceline were even things until I went there and looked. Or how big John/Sherlocke was and how hated the female characters were. Does that ever hinder or make people's enjoyment bigger?

In Adventure Time, when I watched it, it worked for the best because people were asking for more episodes involving the backstory of the Ice King, and more of the serious episodes, and we got some of those.

 

[Toa TAK]

In Adventure Time, when I watched it, it worked for the best because people were asking for more episodes involving the backstory of the Ice King, and more of the serious episodes, and we got some of those.

Those are my favorite on that show, actually.

 

[CreeperBlocks]

I agree I wish they stuck with Amon or started off with Zaheer and company. Would've been so much better I think.

Let's be honest, the show would be much better if Amon or Zaheer we're the Villians.

 

[aly]

In Adventure Time, when I watched it, it worked for the best because people were asking for more episodes involving the backstory of the Ice King, and more of the serious episodes, and we got some of those.

I agree with that. Those were some awesome episodes.

 

[Sadist]

I loved the thing. The thing was great.

And we Korrasami now.

 

[Chariot]

When it's two guys doing the same I'll cheer for that. Not because I disapprove of lesbians, but because I've always felt, without any data to back it up so chances are I'm wrong, that lesbians in the west are SO much more popular because media is ran by men and "chicks kissing are hot". Men kissing/being in a relationship seems to be a bigger deal, at least from what I see of friends/folks here in the South. That'll be what I conside a true victory.

While that's true, homosexuality as a whole is shunned in america (despite many progressive movements) and I assume a lot of americans don't want it in children's shows. So it's still a big thing, even in that slightly ambigious state.

 

[Mononoke]

While that's true, homosexuality as a whole is shunned in america (despite many progressive movements) and I assume a lot of americans don't want it in children's shows. So it's still a big thing, even in that slightly ambigious state.

Thing about Korra is, she was a strong female protagonist of her own show (which in itself is rare, sadly). So it's kind of like, that + being gay (or bi), I think in the overall context...

Not saying it was executed well, but I mean.

 

[Busaiku]

Make it transbender.
"I am a airbender, born into a firebenders body."

Isn't that kind of what Zaheer was?
I mean yes, he became an Airbender in the end, but he was going for that before he knew he was.

 

[Astral Dog]

Honestly, I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will. I do get that, the finale as 44 min was entertaining. But this season as a whole, and the finale itself, really feels flat/dull and with nothing to say.

I don't understand how critics can give this glowing reviews, and not take issue with this season from a plot perspective. I follow some of these critics, and they would have hammered a live action drama for doing the same thing (plot wise).

I've come to terms with I. People not agreeing with me. II. That I did in fact, like the finale as a 44 min episode.

BUT...it still came off completely devoid of, resolution, conclusion, a plot that had any emotional impact or importance. And it was missing so much in terms of emotional pay off, and character resolution. It really really felt like an ending with nothing to say.

So yes, I did enjoy it. But damn. I don't get the praise. I just don't. Opinions, subject. Yeah. I'm not confused that people don't agree with me. It's just, I don't get the type of praise it gets. Hmm.

I think they are just casual viewers of the franchise, i havent seen a bad review of Korra ever, they probably enjoy it on a shallow way, nothing wrong with it, i suppose.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I always felt like I've been quite a bit more lenient on this show than others. Especially this community. Like, I never had a problem with the ending of Book 1, or its romance. I never had an issue with Unalaq, Spirit Korra, or Jinora being essentially a spiritual prodigy. I never had an issue with things like Zaheer learning to fly, the new airbenders, or Korra being able to project herself so easily. And now in Book 4, I really don't take issue with Kuvira or KorrAsami.

My issues were more that I never felt like Noatak had proper motivation for his transformation into Amon, whatever the hell Jinora did in the Book 2 finale, and Bolin lavabending since lavabending itself was never given proper explanation. Also, we get nothing on Kai and Jinora, and I take issue with that as well.

On a side note that I haven't seen anyone really address, so apologies if I missed someone's post:

Did anyone else think Korra and Kuvira were going to become new spirits to replace Raava and Vaatu? What with the whole Kuvira being purple and Korra being blue right after ripping open a new spirit portal?

 

[Mononoke]

I think they are just casual viewers of the franchise, i havent seen a bad review of Korra ever, they probably enjoy it on a shallow way, nothing wrong with it, i suppose.

That's true. I mean, I see wisdom in just enjoying a show. I myself, have always thought that, if a show makes you happy, that is more important then the technical aspects.

It only really matters, when the technical stuff is so bad, it starts to make it not enjoyable. If that makes sense. I mean, as a writer/critic, I think...the technical stuff does matter. And is certainly worth discussing. Especially if you are viewing this as art.

But I think for most people that just want to watch this as entertainment, there is nothing wrong with that view point. I just think it's strange, since critics are usually supposed to be...well critics lol

 

[NEO0MJ]

When it's two guys doing the same I'll cheer for that. Not because I disapprove of lesbians, but because I've always felt, without any data to back it up so chances are I'm wrong, that lesbians in the west are SO much more popular because media is ran by men and "chicks kissing are hot". Men kissing/being in a relationship seems to be a bigger deal, at least from what I see of friends/folks here in the South. That'll be what I conside a true victory.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. From western animation alone there's Harley/Ivy, PB/Marci, and now Korra/Asami. However I don't recall any similar male relationships, as most are usually just bros.

Isn't that kind of what Zaheer was?
I mean yes, he became an Airbender in the end, but he was going for that before he knew he was.

He was applying knowledge from that nation, even if he wasn't one of its members. Pretty applied in depth what Iroh talked about in TLA about learning from the other nations.

 

[Fj0823]

This brings up a question for me. How do people feel about creator and fan interaction an how it can influence the work( or at least the way people view it). Some shows I follow like Avatar, Adventure time, and Sherlock have big tumblr or fan communites with some interaction with creators. I did'nt know Korra/Asami or Bubblegum/Marceline were even things until I went there and looked. Or how big John/Sherlocke was and how hated the female characters were. Does that ever hinder or make people's enjoyment bigger?

It makes hardcore fans happy, and it doesn't take away anything to the regular viewer.

 

[Jacob]

I only finished watching the finale about half an hour ago; I wasn't able to watch it last night or this morning due to work. I'm still working my way through all the comments in this thread. On its own the finale was pretty entertaining, the action in TLOK was consistently great and there were some particular stand-out moments here. But I agree with what Azula said about it feeling pretty plot-free. There wasn't really any resolution, Kuvira was not satisfying as a final villain, and the Korrasami stuff was absolutely tacked-on considering how much the writers shit on Asami as a character previously. I feel like some of the professional critics raving about the ending watched an entirely different show than me, or else they're so unused to seeing an animated TV show that doesn't follow typical cartoon conventions that they've turned off their critical faculties.

 

[Mononoke]

I only finished watching the finale about half an hour ago; I wasn't able to watch it last night or this morning due to work. I'm still working my way through all the comments in this thread. On its own the finale was pretty entertaining, the action in TLOK was consistently great and there were some particular stand-out moments here. But I agree with what Azula said about it feeling pretty plot-free. There wasn't really any resolution, Kuvira was not satisfying as a final villain, and the Korrasami stuff was absolutely tacked-on considering how much the writers shit on Asami as a character previously. I feel like some of the professional critics raving about the ending watched an entirely different show than me, or else they're so unused to seeing an animated TV show that doesn't follow typical cartoon conventions that they've turned off their critical faculties.

I still think it's strange to have an ending, that really had nothing to say about the series as a whole. Nothing to say about the season. I think that is what I find the most bizarre.

 

[Omikaru]

I was thinking about this. I think, it could be fun to do it live like as if it was on TV. But I also don't think people would want to wait 1 episode a week.

So we need to decide how many episodes at once we watch, and if we have it multiple times a week. The live format is good for two reasons:

I. It makes it fun, like we have a new show to watch again. And most of us never got to talk about ATLA with fans as it was airing.

II. People have busy schedules. So it's easier to get people to watch, and have that time to watch and then talk about it.

My advice would be 40-60 minutes a pop. So 2-3 episodes. Seems reasonable to ask people to take about an hour of their time out each week for this. Not too demanding. Also means it won't drag on for too long.

At any rate, I'd be down for taking part in this. Totally.

 

[Mononoke]

My advice would be 40-60 minutes a pop. So 2-3 episodes. Seems reasonable to ask people to take about an hour of their time out each week for this. Not too demanding. Also means it won't drag on for too long.

At any rate, I'd be down for taking part in this. Totally.

Did you want to create the OT since you did Book 1s? I've never created and OT. Plus I would have no idea how to make it look pretty. I'll do it if you don't want to. But if you are interested in creating it, I would help you run it.

Just a thought.

 

[Astral Dog]

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. From western animation alone there's Harley/Ivy, PB/Marci, and now Korra/Asami. However I don't recall any similar male relationships, as most are usually just bros.



He was applying knowledge from that nation, even if he wasn't one of its members. Pretty applied in depth what Iroh talked about in TLA about learning from the other nations.

Male couples are more noticeable, i guess, and some. writers would prefer a lesbian couple.

Still, some guys can look effeminate and be somewhat ambiguous on western cartoons.

 

[Toa TAK]

I'll do the perfect OT.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I'm definitely guilty of falling into the 'going negative' or 'finding flaws' problem, and I certainly don't want to end up in the 'everything is different degrees of crap' mode of analysis where nothing positive ever exists or where no mental energy is spent discussing good parts.

But as Azula talked about, there are some things that just are so egregious its hard for me to even get over them. Book 1 drove me bonkers with how quickly they devolved into stupid love triangle shenanigans. And that was the season that was coming out of a self contained development cycle that should have had better planning and writing behind it. And they still embraced the laziest of tropes in writing their female characters and their interactions. On the other hand it's very true that I should try not to let that color my reaction or evaluation of the rest of the material; it's something I need to work on.

 

[WrenchNinja]

remember when asamis dad showed up and then died