Is it wrong to look if someone is showing cleavage?

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molvetica said:
"It's kind of hard if you have larger boobs to find a shirt that WON'T show your cleavage."

My wife is in that category, she has all sorts of different tops for all all occasions. Some of them are low cut and some of them aren't. When she wears a low cut top, she knows what she's doing.

In any case, it's far easier for the average woman to find a top that doesn't show off her cleavage than it is for the average man to suppress billions of years of evolutionary instinct. If boobs are out on display then I can't help but look at them. I don't even want to look at them most of the time. I just... can't not look at them, if that makes sense. Same with yoga pants, as someone mentioned earlier.
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Literally no one said you couldn't look though. Why are you getting so defensive? People, including myself, said you can glance, just don't stare and be creepy about it.

I look at dudes who wear nice-fitting jeans. I don't stare at them to the point where they're uncomfortable about it.

The fact that you took it to a place of BUT WHY CAN'T I LOOK????????????? when I said that it's difficult for many women to find a shirt that DOESN'T display cleavage (which... it is. There are more women in this world than just your wife, and if she finds it extremely easy to find shirts that don't show off her cleavage when she's got large breasts, more power to her) is just sad, tbh.

Edit: actually, my bad. I was annoyed with you so I misinterpreted your tone. You weren't being a jerk in your reply. So I take back my petty insult. I didn't want to remove it though, because I deserve the shame. The point of what I said still stands, though.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
I think the expectation is that people can be better and should hold themselves to a higher standard than "I have to look because you made me."

Come on, adults.
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But... But I do have to look. You don't understand. I can't control it. I don't even want to look because it is embarrassing to get caught, and it's not like you actually gain anything by just looking. But my natural instincts have other ideas, it's just like 'ah boobies' and turns my eyes to look. There is nothing I can do. I think women should be more considerate when choosing their clothes.
 
Blackstarhat said:
I cant help but to look.
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al-horford-s-brother-o.gif
 
kirblar said:
I'm not even attracted to them, but if the cleavage is intentionally "put out there", my brain still can't look away, despite it creating no other reaction for me. (I wonder if this is true for straight women as well.)
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Yes exactly. My mind keeps saying don't look but my eyes defy those thoughts.

Biology n shit, bros.
 
dreams said:
Literally no one said you couldn't look though. Why are you getting so defensive? People, including myself, said you can glance, just don't stare and be creepy about it.

I look at dudes who wear nice-fitting jeans. I don't stare at them to the point where they're uncomfortable about it.
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That's easier said than done though, at least for some of us. Obviously there are guys out there who can glance once, look away and move on with whatever they're doing. For many men (myself included) that is incredibly difficult though. When a well-endowed woman is wearing a suggestive, low-cut top it's super difficult to not stare. I'll catch myself, force myself to look away, try to think about something else, distract myself, and then catch myself starring again. It's like picking a fight with your own instincts. The instincts usually win. This introduces all sorts of social anxiety because I don't want to be starring and be perceived as a creeper but I am literally powerless to stop it.

Women don't have to take male biology into consideration when they dress themselves... but there would probably be less misunderstandings if more of them were aware of what really goes on in our heads. It's not like we want to be creepy. =/
 
Had a doctor the other day with some huge....tracts of land. She bent over to examine me, as she was a dermatologist doing a skin check, and her shirt just draped open. I couldn't help but take a glance as she was occupied. If I'm being examined all over at the doctor's office I should have something to ease my stress.
 
As others have said just don't stare. If I see massive cleavage I'm certainly going to take a look.

I just hate when a lady bends over, has massive cleavage, she's right in front of you and you have to avert your eyes and pretend you don't see her puppies.
 
molvetica said:
That's easier said than done though, at least for some of us. Obviously there are guys out there who can glance once, look away and move on with whatever they're doing. For many men (myself included) that is incredibly difficult though. When a well-endowed woman is wearing a suggestive, low-cut top it's super difficult to not stare. I'll catch myself, force myself to look away, try to think about something else, distract myself, and then catch myself starring again. It's like picking a fight with your own instincts. The instincts usually win. This introduces all sorts of social anxiety because I don't want to be starring and be perceived as a creeper but I am literally powerless to stop it.

Women don't have to take male biology into consideration when they dress themselves... but there would probably be less misunderstandings if more of them were aware of what really goes on in our heads. It's not like we want to be creepy. =/
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self control

what is it?
 
I believe the proper etiquette in this case is to see if you fling a coin and land it right in the crack of the cleavage. If you throw a perfect shot then you're allowed to.fish it out yourself. Good luck.
 
molvetica said:
That's easier said than done though, at least for some of us. Obviously there are guys out there who can glance once, look away and move on with whatever they're doing. For many men (myself included) that is incredibly difficult though. When a well-endowed woman is wearing a suggestive, low-cut top it's super difficult to not stare. I'll catch myself, force myself to look away, try to think about something else, distract myself, and then catch myself starring again. It's like picking a fight with your own instincts. The instincts usually win. This introduces all sorts of social anxiety because I don't want to be starring and be perceived as a creeper but I am literally powerless to stop it.

Women don't have to take male biology into consideration when they dress themselves... but there would probably be less misunderstandings if more of them were aware of what really goes on in our heads. It's not like we want to be creepy. =/
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In that instance, then just apologize if they catch you and give you the "you're creeping me out" look. Honestly, it's really kind of presumptuous to make a woman change how she's dressing in order to make YOU feel more comfortable because YOU can't control your reflexes. Seek counselling or therapy. Does that make sense? Some women dress in sexy clothes because it makes THEM feel good to look sexy in their own eyes (not to mention non-heterosexual women who have zero interest in pursuing men to begin with).

It's just really frustrating to see this sort of "lol women should completely live their lives around men's whims if they don't want x thing to happen to them" in a community that's generally pretty forward-thinking (at least the threads that I have read/lurked in).

Again, just so no one thinks that I'm condemning men for even looking: go ahead and look. Just don't stare/oggle/be creepy. If you can't control that, you're the one with the problem. Not the woman.
 
SliceSabre said:
As others have said just don't stare. If I see massive cleavage I'm certainly going to take a look.

I just hate when a lady bends over, has massive cleavage, she's right in front of you and you have to avert your eyes and pretend you don't see her puppies.
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I agree with this right here, sometimes I see a woman walking down the street with a massive chest and I can't help but take a quick look.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
self control

what is it?
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...what would you recommend I do differently?

dreams said:
In that instance, then just apologize if they catch you and give you the "you're creeping me out" look. Honestly, it's really kind of presumptuous to make a woman change how she's dressing in order to make YOU feel more comfortable because YOU can't control your reflexes. Seek counselling or therapy. Does that make sense? Some women dress in sexy clothes because it makes THEM feel good to look sexy in their own eyes (not to mention non-heterosexual women who have zero interest in pursuing men to begin with).
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You're assuming that something is inherently "wrong" with me just because I'm a man though. Isn't that kind of presumptuous as well? Why should I have to go to counseling or therapy for a natural aspect of my being? That's like telling homosexuals they should seek counseling or therapy for their "problem" as well. They don't have a problem, they're just gay.
 
I saw a mormon missionary a few days ago and her boobs were obviously huge. She had a cardigan and had buttoned the top few buttons so you couldn't see her cleavage. It looked really uncomfortable and frankly, a little silly. But I understand why she did it. Some women have cleavage they just can't hide.

For the record, in a work setting absolutely do not look. In a public setting as Seinfeld said, treat it like the sun. I will admit though that in private my wife's cleavage severely distracts me to the point where I'm like "....what were we talking about?"
 
I tend to have some cleavage in most of my tops and dresses. I'm so used to people staring, I don't even notice it anymore. I don't really give a shit. Hell sometimes I just stare at my own. Boobs are mesmerizing.
 
As others have said, there's nothing wrong with a glance.

Rawket Lawnchair said:
They wouldn't show cleavage if they didn't want you to look.
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strafer said:
of course it is...that's why they show cleavage..to make you look.
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Sakura said:
If they didn't want you to look they wouldn't be showing it, so don't worry.
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Valkerionseven said:
If your showing them, your inviting gazes clear and simple. I hate when ladies wear stuff that they know will make people at least look/glance but always have that surprised reaction when they realize people are looking...

No one is that dumb, women know what they are wearing and doing when it happens
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This is just bullshit though and it's a rather nasty way of thinking to be honest. It's similar to using a short skirt. Or simply making yourself look attractive in general. A person doesn't necessarily do it to get looks, but it can be as simple as wanting to make herself feel better / more comfortable / secure. Or maybe that skirt or shirt is just cute in her opinion. Or maybe, you know, she doesn't want to actively put on a shirt that covers more just to not get looks.
 
molvetica said:
That's easier said than done though, at least for some of us. Obviously there are guys out there who can glance once, look away and move on with whatever they're doing. For many men (myself included) that is incredibly difficult though. When a well-endowed woman is wearing a suggestive, low-cut top it's super difficult to not stare. I'll catch myself, force myself to look away, try to think about something else, distract myself, and then catch myself starring again. It's like picking a fight with your own instincts. The instincts usually win. This introduces all sorts of social anxiety because I don't want to be starring and be perceived as a creeper but I am literally powerless to stop it.

Women don't have to take male biology into consideration when they dress themselves... but there would probably be less misunderstandings is more of them were aware of what really goes on in our heads. It's not like we want to be creepy. =/
Click to expand...

Learn to not stare. Because you are kinda being a creep if you stare at a woman, and "B-but I don't know how not to" doesn't excuse it. You're not powerless.

This has less to do with your animal instincts and more to do with the fact that in most cases straight men aren't raised to be circumspect when it comes to their sexuality. In fact, it's the exact opposite: in a lot of environments, men are actually raised to believe that visible signs of their appreciation of and/or attraction to a woman is flattering. A good thing. And this is a problem because, no, it isn't always a good thing.

It's different for women, who are raised to be more reserved and who learn early that showing signs of attraction to the wrong guy could often end up badly for them. Same for gay men. The hottest dude could walk by me right now and you wouldn't catch me openly gaping, not just because I wasn't raised to be that obvious, but because as a gay male showing attention to the wrong guy (ie. straight) could easily end up with me getting my ass kicked. For straight men, there isn't a whole lot of social pressure to NOT be a creep, and that's where you get a lot of these "but it's my animal instincts!" excuses from. But that doesn't make it ok.

Take yourself out of your own feelings of attraction, and put yourself into the mind of the other person. Try imagining how potentially uncomfortable you can be making them by openly gaping. That'll make it easier for you to be aware of yourself and to stop starring.
 
Honestly if someone is wearing a low cut shirt they know what's up. That doesn't give you the right to stare though?

Peripheral vision my friend. I have long since mastered it to the point where I'm not even looking in their direction.

Also learn to use your surroundings. A mirror there or a puddle.

I'm
half
 joking.
 
molvetica said:
...what would you recommend I do differently?



You're assuming that something is inherently "wrong" with me just because I'm a man though. Isn't that kind of presumptuous as well? Why should I have to go to counseling or therapy for a natural aspect of my being? That's like telling homosexuals they should seek counseling or therapy for their "problem" as well. They don't have a problem, they're just gay.
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It's natural to look. No one is arguing with that. However, when most men (including others in this thread) have no problem just looking/glancing and not oggling a woman for a prolonged period of time and you "just can't help that" and don't even want to change even though women tell you it makes them uncomfortable, then maybe you should think about that.

Again, like I've said a million times already: it's okay to look. Just don't be creepy.
 
dreams said:
In that instance, then just apologize if they catch you and give you the "you're creeping me out" look. Honestly, it's really kind of presumptuous to make a woman change how she's dressing in order to make YOU feel more comfortable because YOU can't control your reflexes. Seek counselling or therapy. Does that make sense? Some women dress in sexy clothes because it makes THEM feel good to look sexy in their own eyes (not to mention non-heterosexual women who have zero interest in pursuing men to begin with).

It's just really frustrating to see this sort of "lol women should completely live their lives around men's whims if they don't want x thing to happen to them" in a community that's generally pretty forward-thinking (at least the threads that I have read/lurked in).

Again, just so no one thinks that I'm condemning men for even looking: go ahead and look. Just don't stare/oggle/be creepy. If you can't control that, you're the one with the problem. Not the woman.
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Strongly suspect "therapy" for this would have about the same success rate as gay conversion therapy.

Neither gender is happy with this situation. The men don't like the reflexive instinct and the need to fight/suppress it, the women don't like that they have to take it into account when making clothing choices. But people will definitely judge you if you stare, and they'll definitely judge you if you wear "sexy" clothes in a workplace environment.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
exercise some self control and not blame women? male biology isn't an excuse.
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The thought process I described was exactly that. It's not like "self control" is an on/off switch. In some situations your instincts simply take over.

I'm not "blaming" women at all, and I apologize if I've somehow implied that. I'm simply describing how these situations play out inside my male brain.
 
You're allowed to look at whatever you like.

Staring is a different matter. You wouldn't stare at your average guy off the street, don't stare at a woman's cleavage.
 
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