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[Peterthumpa]

Pro talk

More pro talk

Amazing in-depth information guys. Much appreciated. I'm definitely going to bite. I've been watching some Elite videos with the Rift and it seems mind-boggling good.
About performance, should I just assume that my rig has to render a 1920 x 2160 res @ 75 hz for a jutter-free experience? Should I base my benchs on that or are there more performance variables involved?

[Edit] - this may sound dumb, but no harm to be sure... there's no crosstalk with the rift, since we're not mixing one image over another (like the current 3D TV setups), right?

 

[Big Takeover]

Interesting read. So, based on your opinion, is it safe to say that sim racing games are the worst offenders? I mean, you have a pretty good cockpit, but your height is low and the the far away objects (or the track itself) are probably negatively affected. Right?

For the DK2 at least, it's less about your perception of the where the pixels are in space, but the pixels themselves. There just aren't enough of them at the distance that you need that information. Flat chicanes are the worst offenders. Something like the bus stop at Watkins Glen, a corner that's not easy to sight to begin with, is difficult to brake and turn in for, not because you see the curb but don't know how far away it is, but because you can't make it out at all.

So yeah, technically your perception is limited, but not being able to see what you need to perceive is the bigger problem. Perception isn't a problem heading down to Eau Rouge despite it being far away, for example. It looks like a giant hill at the end of a road.

 

[Faith]

They've already confirmed no 4k in cv1.

What? Where? When?

 

[flyinpiranha]

You know. I completely forgot Facebook bough them. So yeah. When Facebook is ready then there's going to be a massive advertising campaign/promotion.

Yeah, pretty much.
"Oculus will never reach mass market awareness"
"So what happens when the consumer version is ready and Facebook decides everyone will see Oculus ads for a few days?"

Oddly enough, not sure how much they'll push it due to PC requirements. It's going to be a HUGE resource hog. I'd imagine we'll all need to upgrade GPU's this year once something 'new' is announced.

I could see it going both ways, a big splash for people that want to see it, or massive splash for everybody, including those that wouldn't be able to use/run it but getting the attention of them.

I personally think it will require too good of a PC to really be something you'd see advertised on Facebook or other major outlets (outside of electronic related sites/magazines and such).

 

[Seanspeed]

What? Where? When?

In the Nate Mitchell interview, he says that 4k will be something they are hoping to do in the future but not for CV1.

There may have been an even more direct confirmation elsewhere but I think its safe to rule out at this point.

 

[Betta Lines]

Amazing in-depth information guys. Much appreciated. I'm definitely going to bite. I've been watching some Elite videos with the Rift and it seems mind-boggling good.
About performance, should I just assume that my rig has to render a 1920 x 2160 res @ 75 hz for a jutter-free experience? Should I base my benchs on that or are there more performance variables involved?

[Edit] - this may sound dumb, but no harm to be sure... there's no crosstalk with the rift, since we're not mixing one image over another (like the current 3D TV setups), right?

The performance overhead compared to 1080p on a monitor seems to vary quite a bit between stuff I've tested, from barely any more demanding to more than twice as demanding. But if you've just built a gaming PC I assume it'll be decent enough to handle everything on DK2.

There is no crosstalk in the way you get crosstalk from normal 3D displays as each eye receives a dedicated image at the full framerate. However, stuff like aliasing and weird transparency effects in non-optimised demos can be very distracting when seen from two angles, so you could call that a unique form of crosstalk.

 

[-SD-]

Quote from Oculus VR CEO Brendan Iribe at 2:09

DK1 and DK2 didn't blow me away.

Granted, it's in hindsight but I still love the honesty of these guys.

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

Amazing in-depth information guys. Much appreciated. I'm definitely going to bite. I've been watching some Elite videos with the Rift and it seems mind-boggling good.
About performance, should I just assume that my rig has to render a 1920 x 2160 res @ 75 hz for a jutter-free experience? Should I base my benchs on that or are there more performance variables involved?

[Edit] - this may sound dumb, but no harm to be sure... there's no crosstalk with the rift, since we're not mixing one image over another (like the current 3D TV setups), right?

No prob :>

The bolded isn't necessarily true depending on the game optimization. I'm not sure you can reliably test this by setting a virtual resolution and setting your monitor to 75hz, to run some sort of simulated benchmark. At least not with DK2 when there is a plethora of GPU driver issues, game optimization issues etc. Although that also goes either way - some VR games could run better than the benchmark you run on this simulated set up, because of fancy stereo optimization and things like timewarp meaning that performance won't scale linearly.

For games modded with Rift support, since then you are more likely to be simply rendering the game twice with no tricks or optimization, the performance hit is probably worse than rendering the game standardly but in double the horizontal resolution. I can run Skyrim at 60fps without a hiccup in 2560x1440 in ultra, using a stereo injector and the Rift I can barely keep 70fps with the lowest settings possible.

Another thing to consider, and here's where someone could correct me, is that Nvidia is beginning to optimize their latest architecture, Maxwell, very heavily for VR and stereoscopic rendering, while I think the previous architecture, Kepler, is being left out I think. So it also depends on your card and the architecture.

The best thing to do if you want an idea of how you will run a game, is to go into that game thread and ask if anyone is playing on similar specs as yours, and what their performance is like.

 

[Kyoufu]

They say it's around 1 to 2 weeks from placing the order to shipping, but could be less. According to their community manager on the Oculus forum, they have plenty of stock so no need to worry about that.

I placed my order on the 5th and am still waiting for it to ship as well.

Just got my shipping email.

Excite~

 

[Ravager61]

Just got my shipping email.

Excite~

Damnit! It seems a lot of people that ordered earlier in the week are getting their shipping notices but mine still says pending. This wait is killing me.

 

[Peterthumpa]

The best thing to do if you want an idea of how you will run a game, is to go into that game thread and ask if anyone is playing on similar specs as yours, and what their performance is like.

Thanks, maybe that's something that's just better evaluating by playing. Got a GTX 970, so I believe I'm probably fine, I'll report about my findings here. Thanks again

 

[Bebpo]

What's the closest to killer app so far for DK2 these days? Haven't turned mine on for a few months.

 

[Man]

The flawed positional tracking of the DK2 (no 360degree tracking in addition to tracking scope being small) ultimately makes it feel less refined than DK1 in my experience (having owned the latter since April 2013, the former since July 2014). Too many hitches and drop-outs. The DK2 advancements are obviously huge compared to DK1 but that extra element of 'disturbance' sticks with the user after demo experiences.

I've become slightly more cynical to Crescent Bay impressions after initial run of DK2 / Crystal Cove hands-on impressions though saying that I'm still very hyped for CV1. Definitely the gaming event of 2015.

My favorite DK2 demo is Vox Machina.

 

[Kyoufu]

What's the closest to killer app so far for DK2 these days? Haven't turned mine on for a few months.

I hear it's really good for Elite: Dangerous if you're into space sims. I bought mine for it.

 

[bj00rn_]

The flawed positional tracking of the DK2 (no 360degree tracking in addition to tracking scope being small) ultimately makes it feel less refined than DK1 in my experience (having owned the latter since April 2013, the former since July 2014). Too many hitches and drop-outs. The DK2 advancements are obviously huge compared to DK1 but that extra element of 'disturbance' sticks with the user after demo experiences.

I've become slightly more cynical to Crescent Bay impressions after initial run of DK2 / Crystal Cove hands-on impressions though saying that I'm still very hyped for CV1. Definitely the gaming event of 2015.

My favorite DK2 demo is Vox Machina.

I'm not sure what's going on with your tracking. Is something screwed up? The positional tracking feels pretty rock solid to me. Put your tracking camera somewhere in the back (not on top of the monitor), then the tracking cone is wide enough to move around wherever you want. In Assetto Corsa I can go more than 300+ degrees to the back without losing track.

Vox Machina is indeed surprisingly immersive.

Elite Dangerous, Assetto Corsa and NewRetroArcade are my favorites.

 

[Tain]

The flawed positional tracking of the DK2 (no 360degree tracking in addition to tracking scope being small) ultimately makes it feel less refined than DK1 in my experience (having owned the latter since April 2013, the former since July 2014). Too many hitches and drop-outs. The DK2 advancements are obviously huge compared to DK1 but that extra element of 'disturbance' sticks with the user after demo experiences.

I really can't agree. DK1's drift and frustratingly low (as opposed to just disappointingly low) resolution made it hard for me to put any real time into it, but I've spent tons of time in my DK2.

 

[Bigbillybeef]

What's the closest to killer app so far for DK2 these days? Haven't turned mine on for a few months.

Metroid Prime on Dolphin VR kinda blew my mind.

Now I really want to play SMG1. I can get it to run just fine but for some reason I can't seem to see some elements in-game that are stopping my progress. If they fix that it could be THE definitive Rift game right now. Mariokart Wii and Zelda WW also run flawlessly in my experience too. Gamecube and Wii games unintentionally show how large fonts can make all the difference in VR

I love Elite Dangerous, but until the devs increase the text size for Rift users it's almost unplayable. I genuinely find it very difficult indeed to read much of the text.

 

[Blizzard]

I'll hopefully try one or two of the newer demos, but I've hardly used my DK2 at all after the initial week or two. The big thing I've been waiting on is direct mode support. I don't know if it's a problem with the SDK and Oculus has still not made it reliable enough for developers, or if there are technical challenges, but I'm not sure I have found ANY demos besides maybe the initial chair demo that work with direct mode. Or some may, but it's unreliable, or stuttery, or the graphics seem off, etc.

If that could be nailed so I don't have to try to dance with multiple monitors and desktop icons being scattered and not being able to see anything, or having to install third-party applications, it would be more usable.

I'm a developer and I hopefully COULD get stuff working if I played with it long enough, but for now I've been just kind of waiting on things to improve more. The latest prototype sounds like it's pretty decent.


I had DK1 and it was worse of course, so things are slowly making their way along.

 

[dark10x]

What's the closest to killer app so far for DK2 these days? Haven't turned mine on for a few months.

NewRetroArcade. Still the thing I keep coming back to. So damn immersive.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

NewRetroArcade. Still the thing I keep coming back to. So damn immersive.

Just checked this out and about cried. I don't have a Rift. The nicest PC I have is a Surface Pro. I've been wanting to get into PC gaming for a while now and build a nice rig but we are trying to build a house in 4 years so I only budget 1 Xbox game a month. I'm constantly trying to stay out of these threads to avoid temptation but the Rift is something I'm really interested in so I check up on it from time to time.

Man, you have no idea how much I miss going to those retro arcades. Every arcade from my childhood has closed down and recently I've been having some serious feels for that era.

Seeing that game and the thought of being able to relive that to some degree in a Rift hit me really hard. It's almost to much to handle.

On another note, how many of you can magic eyes this?

If so, how accurate is that to what you actually see in a Rift?

 

[Bigbillybeef]

If so, how accurate is that to what you actually see in a Rift?

I cant do the magic eyes thing, but being a 31 year old gamer (who used to frequent these beautiful seedy little arcades in the early 90's) I can tell you that it's a very emotional experience. And for a guess, screenshots (no matter how cross eyed you go) can't do it justice.

P.S. Gimme that multiplayer already. Winner stays on Street Fighter would be glorious. Also, the Simpsons arcade or TMNT 4 player...

 

[mrklaw]

So the split screen two eyes thing doesn't necessarily take twice as long to render as a single viewpoint, right? Some things are shareable between both views. This is good for efficiency.

But what about when you introduce VR SLI into the equation? With one GPU per eye, isn't that a little less efficient?

 

[bj00rn_]

how many of you can magic eyes this?

If so, how accurate is that to what you actually see in a Rift?

Stereoscopy isn't even the most critical aspect of VR. 1:1 scale, high FOV, head tracking and fast low persistence update is. ..Which you won't get from watching a picture.

NewRetroArcade is pretty damn near amazing.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Stereoscopy isn't even the most critical aspect of VR. 1:1 scale, high FOV, head tracking and fast low persistence update is. ..Which you won't get from watching a picture.

NewRetroArcade is pretty damn near amazing.

Ugh. I really want to try this.

What are the chances of Oculus striking a deal with Best Buy or Walmart or something to install demo units?

I think that would go a pretty long way for getting people to jump in on a Rift and a PC considering how pricey it seems it could get.

 

[metareferential]

So the split screen two eyes thing doesn't necessarily take twice as long to render as a single viewpoint, right? Some things are shareable between both views. This is good for efficiency.

But what about when you introduce VR SLI into the equation? With one GPU per eye, isn't that a little less efficient?

The way I understand (and I'm just a gamer who happens to like this sort of things) it is that VR SLI makes rendering more efficient, if anything.

Rendering half screen at a time means having much more power overhead. If you're gaming at say 1080p in current SLI setup, your cards will alternate frames, so if you're already getting out of budget, that could cause stutter, framedrops, etc. (having to wait for the first card to render and so on).

Halving everything means you first card renders the game's frame for eye 1 indipendently, so even if it has to render things that could be shared (and I'm saying this without actually knowing if that's the case; I don't think they overlooked such a thing while developing sli vr), it still ends up with a frame that has half the resolution. That's something else.

If we could do this on regular screens, everyone and theIR mother would be playing at 4k right now on budget sli-rigs xD

Two 980's on a VR SLI setup will last quite a bit I'd reckon; even if the screen is 1440p/90hz, you'd still need to render half of that per GPU.

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

So the split screen two eyes thing doesn't necessarily take twice as long to render as a single viewpoint, right? Some things are shareable between both views. This is good for efficiency.

But what about when you introduce VR SLI into the equation? With one GPU per eye, isn't that a little less efficient?

As I understand it, in non VR games modded with Rift support, this is pretty much the case. For games built from the ground up for VR or with the official devs themselves adding in Rift support, yeah it won't be like you're just rendering twice because like you said, stuff will be shared, there will be optimization.

Better VR SLI at the moment is in development, Nvidia is (maybe already has?) planning to release driver updates which allow your two GPUs (only the 970 and 980 so far I think, not sure if this is also coming to older architecture) to render one eye each. At the moment, as with non VR games, SLI setups can introduce latency.

However, to ensure the ultimate experience with rock solid framerates, which is crucial for avoiding eye strain and jarring frame drops, a fast SLI configuration is recommended. In traditional games SLI doubles performance, letting you play at higher resolutions and with more eye candy. In VR games, SLI rendering introduces a frame of latency, which is the antithesis of our work mentioned earlier. To avoid this frame of latency we have developed "VR SLI", which has each GPU output to a separate eye in the VR headset. This allows games to fully utilize both GPUs in parallel, and increase delivered frame rates.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...us-the-only-choice-for-virtual-reality-gaming

In that quote they talk about the one eye per GPU thing, but as far as I know they haven't released the drivers which allow for this yet. It hopefully means that in the future, SLI set ups should scale incredibly well for VR with little to no drawbacks.

 

[Faith]

In the Nate Mitchell interview, he says that 4k will be something they are hoping to do in the future but not for CV1.

There may have been an even more direct confirmation elsewhere but I think its safe to rule out at this point.

I don't believe that.

CV1 would be out by now if it wouldn't have more than a 1440p display.

 

[Seanspeed]

I don't believe that.

CV1 would be out by now if it wouldn't have more than a 1440p display.

You can doubt it, but they've said it.

And its been said quite a few times now, but there is a lot more to releasing the Rift than just getting the hardware finalized.

They are still building their SDK, they are creating games, they are creating partnerships, they are creating an ecosystem, etc etc. They are attacking this VR thing from a very comprehensive outlook and aren't just gonna rush the headset out and then do all this other important stuff later. They want everything to be ready.

 

[-SD-]

I don't believe that.

Meh... 4K is just too big a performance hog at this time. CV1 won't be aimed only at enthusiasts with SLI rigs.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Another question that just came to my mind right now. In order to spare system resources, is it really THAT jarring when using the DK2 @ 60 hz instead of 75 hz? I mean, 60 FPS outside the Rift already seems perfect to me, will it introduce judder if not using a 75 refresh rate?

 

[Faith]

Meh... 4K is just too big a performance hog at this time. CV1 won't be aimed only at enthusiasts with SLI rigs.

It's about the SDE.

 

[call_kotaku]

Another question that just came to my mind right now. In order to spare system resources, is it really THAT jarring when using the DK2 @ 60 hz instead of 75 hz? I mean, 60 FPS outside the Rift already seems perfect to me, will it introduce judder if not using a 75 refresh rate?

It's not as immersive and you can see flicker with low persistence at 60fps

Just take a browser window and drag and shake it around on your 60fps monitor and try to read the text. You need higher refresh because when your eyes and your head move simultaneously there's going to be a pretty large amount of blur which you don't see with stationary monitors.

 

[dark10x]

It's about the SDE.

Of course, eliminating the SDE is an important thing, but not as important as maintaining fluid motion. A lower frame-rate when using the Rift pretty much destroys the experience. You NEED a high frame-rate. Everything else is 100% secondary.

The hardware just isn't there to drive 4K at a high enough frame-rate. Even super high-end rigs will struggle with that. It would basically render the headset useless for most people.

I suppose you could just render at a lower resolution but I'd take the SDE at native resolution than upscaled, blurry pixels.

This is the first time in a while where PC hardware needs to advance further in order to properly support VR. It's not powerful enough yet to handle the overhead.

Just take a browser window and drag and shake it around on your 60fps monitor and try to read the text.

That's a terrible example, actually. If you drag a window around at 60 Hz on a CRT you can actually read the text. I agree that higher frame-rates are necessary for VR but what you're talking about is more an issue with the types of displays commonly used today.

 

[Betta Lines]

Another question that just came to my mind right now. In order to spare system resources, is it really THAT jarring when using the DK2 @ 60 hz instead of 75 hz? I mean, 60 FPS outside the Rift already seems perfect to me, will it introduce judder if not using a 75 refresh rate?

The jump from 60Hz DK1 to 75Hz DK2 is one of the most important improvements, as they are able to add low persistence, which dramatically reduces motion blur, resulting in a sharper moving image, higher comfort and reduced nausea.

You can run DK2 demos at 60fps, but you will not be seeing it as intended and you will probably feel sick.

 

[Tomeru]

Would you guys recommend this as a buy, in it's current state, to a hardcore pc gamer? Or just wait for the CV1 or whatsitsname?

 

[Peterthumpa]

It's not as immersive and you can see flicker with low persistence at 60fps

Just take a browser window and drag and shake it around on your 60fps monitor and try to read the text. You need higher refresh because when your eyes and your head move simultaneously there's going to be a pretty large amount of blur which you don't see with stationary monitors.

I see, I get your point, but I can't read a sheet of paper that I just shake back and forth right now in front of me either, so there's that.

The jump from 60Hz DK1 to 75Hz DK2 is one of the most important improvements, as they are able to add low persistence, which dramatically reduces motion blur, resulting in a sharper moving image, higher comfort and reduced nausea.

You can run DK2 demos at 60fps, but you will not be seeing it as intended and you will probably feel sick.

I wonder if technologies like "Motionflow" from those recent Smart TVs would be a good fit for the Rift as a way to reduce GPU load - at least an option to simulate a smooth, non-blurred image at the cost of some artifacting. My Samsung TV does it, and the results are actually not that bad.

 

[bj00rn_]

I suppose you could just render at a lower resolution but I'd take the SDE at native resolution than upscaled, blurry pixels.

Normally. But even with the drawbacks of scaling included, higher resolution panel is an effective way to improve IQ of VR display tech - at this stage.

I wouldn't be surprised if Morpheus had a 1440p panel but rendering at 1080p.

 

[cyberheater]

You can run DK2 demos at 60fps, but you will not be seeing it as intended and you will probably feel sick.

I doubt Morpheus is running above 60fps and I'm not hearing a lot of complaints about feeling sick from folks that have tried it.

 

[mrklaw]

You can use microlenses or a diffusion panel to reduce SDE, and it sounds like CB is using something like that. Seems like a decent approach.

 

[d0g_bear]

It's about the SDE.

No it isn't.

a 4k native screen will have almost no SDE

This is a common misconception that many people believe for some reason. The aperture ratio of a display (the ratio between active display area and the black space I'm between, the direct measure of SDE) does not have a positive correlation with resolution increase - In fact, the two are in direct competition with each other. Take a typical 1080p LCD television, for example - Sure, the pixels are giant up close, but there is almost no black space in between. If you were to take that same display technology and shoot it up to 8k, the active area of each pixel would be a tiny pinprick, and going to 16k could be straight up impossible. Cramming more and more pixels onto a display is not always an obvious win like people imagine, there are always tradeoffs.
TL;DR: Higher res does not cause less screen door till we are at the limits of human resolution. Scaling up is a bad argument for making display tradeoffs in a particular direction.

Besides, people experiencing CB today are saying SDE is essentially solved by optics (although further fine detail could be derived from increasing resolution).

 

[-SD-]

EDIT: Beaten by d0g_bear...

It's about the SDE.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2rayri/hint_that_crescent_bay_is_2560x1440/cne749y

this is the ideal compromise... a 4k native screen will have almost no SDE regardless of the actual rendered resolution while 1080p @ 90Hz should be attainable for mainstream systems by then

This is a common misconception that many people believe for some reason. The aperture ratio of a display (the ratio between active display area and the black space I'm between, the direct measure of SDE) does not have a positive correlation with resolution increase - In fact, the two are in direct competition with each other. Take a typical 1080p LCD television, for example - Sure, the pixels are giant up close, but there is almost no black space in between. If you were to take that same display technology and shoot it up to 8k, the active area of each pixel would be a tiny pinprick, and going to 16k could be straight up impossible. Cramming more and more pixels onto a display is not always an obvious win like people imagine, there are always tradeoffs.

TL;DR: Higher res does not cause less screen door till we are at the limits of human resolution. Scaling up is a bad argument for making display tradeoffs in a particular direction.

 

[SighFight]

No it isn't.




Besides, people experiencing CB today are saying SDE is essentially solved by optics (although further fine detail could be derived from increasing resolution).

SDE is only part of the problem. With DK2 I don't find it to distracting but the low resolution is. When you look at something clos up it looks perfectly fine but things in the distance just don't look right because of the resolution. If a mech in 100 m distance is only composed of 50 pixels it becomes barely immersive.

 

[Seanspeed]

I doubt Morpheus is running above 60fps and I'm not hearing a lot of complaints about feeling sick from folks that have tried it.

We didn't hear any reports of VR sickness when Crystal Cove(DK2) impressions were rolling in, either. Short demonstrations plus specially picked experiences can hide issues.

GearVR is also only 60fps, so there is that, but I think 60fps is also going to limit the sort of stuff you can do with that headset. I imagine it'll be pretty darn easy to design something that gets people feeling ill quite quickly that would feel a whole lot better at a higher framerate.

 

[metareferential]

SDE is only part of the problem. With DK2 I don't find it to distracting but the low resolution is. When you look at something clos up it looks perfectly fine but things in the distance just don't look right because of the resolution. If a mech in 100 m distance is only composed of 50 pixels it becomes barely immersive.

I was typing the same thing.

SDE is the least of their worries, as should be for every VR-enthusiast.

The right content has already negligeable SDE (it's there, of course, but you don't notice it that much).

The problem is fine detail and far away structures. Here the low pixel count and the SDE are annoying.

 

[Seanspeed]

I was typing the same thing.

SDE is the least of their worries, as should be for every VR-enthusiast.

What people are bothered by most with DK2 seems to vary. Some people feel the SDE is the worst aspect. Others like you feel its the resolution. Others still dislike the FoV most. There is no right/wrong answer.

 

[Betta Lines]

I wonder if technologies like "Motionflow" from those recent Smart TVs would be a good fit for the Rift as a way to reduce GPU load - at least an option to simulate a smooth, non-blurred image at the cost of some artifacting. My Samsung TV does it, and the results are actually not that bad.

Unfortunately the real cost is massive latency. MotionFlow is not suitable for VR - latency is everything.

I doubt Morpheus is running above 60fps and I'm not hearing a lot of complaints about feeling sick from folks that have tried it.

Perhaps they have figured a way of getting 60fps to be ok for nausea when everything is optimised for that, but I was referring to the 60fps DK2 experience, which is very bad. Morpheus must be better at 60fps than DK2 if people aren't complaining. Even so, I'd be very surprised if Morpheus ends up being 60Hz.

 

[cyberheater]

We didn't hear any reports of VR sickness when Crystal Cove(DK2) impressions were rolling in, either. Short demonstrations plus specially picked experiences can hide issues.

GearVR is also only 60fps, so there is that, but I think 60fps is also going to limit the sort of stuff you can do with that headset. I imagine it'll be pretty darn easy to design something that gets people feeling ill quite quickly that would feel a whole lot better at a higher framerate.

I think 60fps is going to be just fine. Well. It will have to be because Morpheus isn't going to run any higher and as you said GearVR is also running at 60fps and folks don't seem to be complaining.

Even so, I'd be very surprised if Morpheus ends up being 60Hz.

How could it not be. The PS4 isn't powerful enough for anything higher.

 

[SighFight]

We didn't hear any reports of VR sickness when Crystal Cove(DK2) impressions were rolling in, either. Short demonstrations plus specially picked experiences can hide issues.

GearVR is also only 60fps, so there is that, but I think 60fps is also going to limit the sort of stuff you can do with that headset. I imagine it'll be pretty darn easy to design something that gets people feeling ill quite quickly that would feel a whole lot better at a higher framerate.

VR sickness really depends on the person and the content. Some games like Windlands and VOX I can take without a problem. A friend couldn't even take 5 minutes of the calmest demos. He just became sick instantly when in VR. To be honest I have found that my desire for VR has been decreasing due to unpleasent experiences. It is very sublte but I noticed I had to convince my body to do it as I developed a "fear" of sickness. I guess it's just that the body remembers that using that thing has caused some sickness and is therefore trying to avoid it.

This will be the main point in becoming successful or not for VR. Not too many people are going to give it many tries and training. If they try it and get sick, they are most likely done with it. It is crucially important to have a good experience the first times. Once you know how good it can be you might be forgiving for some stomache problems when you have a "bad trip".

 

[Seanspeed]

I think 60fps is going to be just fine. Well. It will have to be because Morpheus isn't going to run any higher and as you said GearVR is also running at 60fps and folks don't seem to be complaining.

It really wont be fine. GearVR can get away with 60fps for a couple reasons, one of them being that its wireless and you can do the swivel chair turning trick for experiences that call for that sort of 1st person on-foot movement. Morpheus wont have that advantage. Either Sony invests in a higher refresh rate display(which I think they will) or they severely limit the sorts of experiences they can do with the headset.

How could it not be. The PS4 isn't powerful enough for anything higher.

There's nothing stopping the PS4 from being able to output an extra 15-30fps.

VR sickness really depends on the person and the content. Some games like Windlands and VOX I can take without a problem. A friend couldn't even take 5 minutes of the calmest demos. He just became sick instantly when in VR. To be honest I have found that my desire for VR has been decreasing due to unpleasent experiences. It is very sublte but I noticed I had to convince my body to do it as I developed a "fear" of sickness. I guess it's just that the body remembers that using that thing has caused some sickness and is therefore trying to avoid it.

This will be the main point in becoming successful or not for VR. Not too many people are going to give it many tries and training. If they try it and get sick, they are most likely done with it. It is crucially important to have a good experience the first times. Once you know how good it can be you might be forgiving for some stomache problems when you have a "bad trip".

Oh yea, I know its different for everyone, but you still want to have the highest minimum specs you can feasibly do in order to limit the amount of people that will feel uncomfortable. Having a 60hz refresh rate is a guaranteed way to keep a lot of people feeling bad unless you are very careful over the types of experiences you pick up.

 

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How could it not be. The PS4 isn't powerful enough for anything higher.

I'm sure you can render some basic geometry in 3D on the PS4 at many hundreds of fps. It just depends on priorities. If a phone can do 60fps VR, a PS4 can certainly do those experiences at a much higher framerate.