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[Chairmanchuck]

I mean people said that this might be about work here before.

I really think that might be a case. The japanese in the company I work for are really obedient "dogs". They do everything, they do unpaid overtime and get mad if some other japanese goes home after working their 8 hours as stated in their contract.
I cant even think that after 10-11 hours working, where you are paid for 8, a commute of maybe 2 hours every day that you really want to have sex when you come home.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This thread is just... I've seen stats, studies, articles, essays, documentaries, etc. on Japan, and my opinions are criticized by people that have simply visited Japan a few times, or even worse, think that because they play Japanese games and watch anime they are suddenly an authority.

I don't even know how to respond.

Oh wow, you've read essays and watched documentaries. That surely makes you an authority. What is it about polisci majors that brings this attitude about. I know I shouldn't generalize, but I distinctly remember this attitude being associated with polisci students back in my university days, right down to the whole looking at everything through a very rose-colored American lens.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

What's worked for me (in China). Is finding older women that have been unwanted by their husbands. Usually it's quite easy to make love with a woman that wants it but has no options.(ie negligent husband).

 

[GorillaJu]

It's really not, though.

I mean, sure, the population is on the decline, but it's entirely possible that the post war population boom was what was "unnatural" and now it's just self regulating. Having 130 million people in such a small country may not have been the best idea. There may be more hard times ahead, but it's not like the country is just going to stop reproducing. There will be a point where it stabilizes and maybe even rises again.

This "I'll be the judge of what countries have good cultures and bad cultures" dialog is nauseating, and the prevailing narrative that Japan is a few decades away from Children of Men is hilarious to anyone who lives in Japan.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don't think you understand. The issue isn't that reproduction in Japan will totally cease, and it never has been. The issue is that the reproduction rate is below replacement capacity, and it is slowing down. Do you know anything about demographics? Can you tell me the fertility rate? Do you know what a population pyramid is? Because I get the impression that you are just making stuff up.

Unless something serious happens, this will only get worse. There are no projections for the scenario you described.

That's the thing. Something serious will happen. The culture is going to have to adapt to its massively aging (and shrinking) population. It can't just keep on as it has been. Things will get worse before they get better. The economy will shrink along with the population.

None of that means the country is going to die, though.

 

[The Flash]

What's worked for me (in China). Is finding older women that have been unwanted by their husbands. Usually it's quite easy to make love with a woman that wants it but has no options.(ie negligent husband).

wut

 

[Chairmanchuck]

wut

The same happens to the women actually. I know so manye 40/50 year old chinese, who get their "fun" at Karaoke.

One time I was on a business trip we went to a Karaoke bar (there are two types of that in China, Karaoke with prostitutes and normal, we went to the first....) and some married guy wanted to buy some prostitues while I was on toilet.
The wifes always know about this, so I guess there are a lot who think "What he can do, I can also do."

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This "I'll be the judge of what countries have good cultures and bad cultures" dialog is nauseating, and the prevailing narrative that Japan is a few decades away from Children of Men is hilarious to anyone who lives in Japan.

It really is quite frustrating to read. Some serious "White Man's Burden" bullshit.

 

[Gurthang]

How can you be too tired for sex?

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Oh wow, you've read essays and watched documentaries. That surely makes you an authority. What is it about polisci majors that brings this attitude about.

What else would I do to obtain knowledge? I seriously don't see the issue here.

I know I shouldn't generalize, but I distinctly remember this attitude being associated with polisci students back in my university days, right down to the whole looking at everything through a very rose-colored American lens.

I don't even know what you mean hear, as my assessment of the situation is one of the most negative in this thread; there's nothing rose-colored about it, and the only thing "American" about it is that I think America is superior to Japan in that we do not have these problems.

But by all means, if you truly believe that the way Japan is today is comparable or even superior to how the United States is, fine.

That's the thing. Something serious will happen. The culture is going to have to adapt to its massively aging (and shrinking) population. It can't just keep on as it has been. Things will get worse before they get better. The economy will shrink along with the population.

None of that means the country is going to die, though.

I don't think it will adapt, though. No other country has been in a situation like this before, and I don't know if Japan is prepared to be the first country to solve this problem.

 

[Sectorseven]

The same happens to the women actually. I know so manye 40/50 year old chinese, who get their "fun" at Karaoke.

One time I was on a business trip we went to a Karaoke bar (there are two types of that in China, Karaoke with prostitutes and normal, we went to the first....) and some married guy wanted to buy some prostitues while I was on toilet.
The wifes always know about this, so I guess there are a lot who think "What he can do, I can also do."

So how much can a westerner charge?

 

[jasonng]

What's worked for me (in China). Is finding older women that have been unwanted by their husbands. Usually it's quite easy to make love with a woman that wants it but has no options.(ie negligent husband).

The same happens to the women actually. I know so manye 40/50 year old chinese, who get their "fun" at Karaoke.

One time I was on a business trip we went to a Karaoke bar (there are two types of that in China, Karaoke with prostitutes and normal, we went to the first....) and some married guy wanted to buy some prostitues while I was on toilet.
The wifes always know about this, so I guess there are a lot who think "What he can do, I can also do."

What are you implying? That Chinese are the same as Japanese?

I don't see the relevance here.

 

[darscot]

What else would I do to obtain knowledge? I seriously don't see the issue here.

I don't even know what you mean hear, as my assessment of the situation is one of the most negative in this thread; there's nothing rose-colored about it, and the only thing "American" about it is that I think America is superior to Japan in that we do not have these problems.

But by all means, if you truly believe that the way Japan is today is comparable or even superior to how the United States is, fine.

What exactly is the problem that you speak of, that a country that is massively over populated has a declining population?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

How can you be too tired for sex?

Wake up at 6 a.m. to leave the house at 7 a.m. and don't get home until 12 a.m. after working a 14 hour day with the knowledge that you have to do the same thing again the next day and the next day and the next day and probably Saturday, too, and you'll see how you can be too tired for sex.

 

[terrisus]

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Chairmanchuck]

What are you implying? That Chinese are the same as Japanese?

I don't see the relevance here.

I just replied to the wut. I didnt imply anything.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

What are you implying? That Chinese are the same as Japanese?

I don't see the relevance here.

Just saw the article mentioning most men were uninterested in their wives after childbirth (a very common occurrence it seems in Asian cultures) probably mostly stemming from marriage as a contractual obligation (in China anyway).

Just giving airplane.gif people some advice. Go for the horny older woman that has no outlet, not the younger ones.

 

[Naked Snake]

I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.

The Vapors - Turning Japanese - YouTube

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What else would I do to obtain knowledge? I seriously don't see the issue here.

That kind of stuff is a good start, but you shouldn't be making arguments based solely off stuff you've read or watched. That's just regurgitating the opinions you happen to agree with.

I don't even know what you mean hear, as my assessment of the situation is one of the most negative in this thread; there's nothing rose-colored about it, and the only thing "American" about it is that I think America is superior to Japan in that we do not have these problems.

But by all means, if you truly believe that the way Japan is today is comparable or even superior to how the United States is, fine.

I was talking about your air of superiority about the state of America and how its system is so superior or even compatible with completely different cultures, all the while ignoring (or at least not stating) the other major problems we have as a country. We may not have the same population issue as Japan (although the U.S. fertility rate is on the decline like most other developed nations), we've got plenty of other issues to deal with.

I don't think it will adapt, though. No other country has been in a situation like this before, and I don't know if Japan is prepared to be the first country to solve this problem.

Japan has a lot of "firsts." It may not be pretty, but I can't see any scenario where it doesn't adapt. I honestly don't see how you seem to think they will just stop breeding completely at some point and the population will hit zero.

 

[entremet]

How can you be too tired for sex?

Japanese work culture is like no other.

 

[jasonng]

Just saw the article mentioning most men were uninterested in their wives after childbirth (a very common occurrence it seems in Asian cultures) probably mostly stemming from marriage as a contractual obligation (in China anyway).

Please. Tell me more.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

What exactly is the problem that you speak of, that a country that is massively over populated has a declining population?

The problem is that all those unmarried people aren't just going to disappear. They will age, and create a situation where the fewer and fewer young people have to manage a country that is increasingly dominated by the elderly. There is almost no way they will be able to support them all. Who will man the factories? Who will join the Self Defense Force? Who will keep the economy afloat? Because it certainly won't be millions of seniors!

And then, a few decades from now when they begin to die and the population crashes, and starts to shirk exponentially, what happens? The only comparable situation would be the Black Death in medieval Europe, but that society is nothing like modern Japan.

I think you are oversimplifying things.

That kind of stuff is a good start, but you shouldn't be making arguments based solely off stuff you've read or watched. That's just regurgitating the opinions you happen to agree with.

Stating the logical outcome of statistical analysis is not "regurgitating an opinion."

I was talking about your air of superiority about the state of America and how its system is so superior or even compatible with completely different cultures, all the while ignoring (or at least not stating) the other major problems we have as a country. We may not have the same population issue as Japan (although the U.S. fertility rate is on the decline like most other developed nations), we've got plenty of other issues to deal with.

We do have other issues. But those other issues are not a serious existential threat.

Japan has a lot of "firsts." It may not be pretty, but I can't see any scenario where it doesn't adapt. I honestly don't see how you seem to think they will just stop breeding completely at some point and the population will hit zero.

No one thinks the population will "hit zero." It isn't that simple. The problem isn't that they will "stop breeding" as you put it, but that their population growth becomes too low, or worse, negative. Our entire economic system right now is built on continuous growth, so unless Japan can engineer a way around this conundrum, there will be problems. You can't run a country largely populated by seniors.

 

[darscot]

Japanese work culture is like no other.

I found this to be a myth, they work long hours but so much of it is about status and culture. You don't leave till your boss leaves so they spend a lot of time sitting around not really doing that much work. It is different that is for sure, but I easily got more work done in less time. I never understood why they spend so much time there but I know the people on my team left when I did and we had awesome productivity. As far as working hard I found it right around average.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Please. Tell me more.

Anecdotal, but pretty much every older woman I've been with has been neglected by their husbands since they gave birth to their child.

It's the part that caught my eye the most in the article and is what I've noticed happens most often in China.

Man and woman get married to have a kid. After the kid is born, the husband finds other's to play with.

Not all do it, but it's a huge number that do. Women, being relegated to the household still because China is a very masculine society, are told they can't do these things, but they normally do it anyway because they are human and have sexual needs that need satisfying.

 

[esms]

Birth control?

Is it mandatory or something? That's a precipitous drop.

 

[darscot]

The problem is that all those unmarried people aren't just going to disappear. They will age, and create a situation where the fewer and fewer young people have to manage a country that is increasingly dominated by the elderly. There is almost no way they will be able to support them all. Who will man the factories? Who will join the Self Defense Force? Who will keep the economy afloat? Because it certainly won't be millions of seniors!

And then, a few decades from now when they begin to die and the population crashes, and starts to shirk exponentially, what happens? The only comparable situation would be the Black Death in medieval Europe, but that society is nothing like modern Japan.

I think you are oversimplifying things.

What are these factories you refer too, as I guy that spent a lot of time working factory automation in Japan I can tell you there is not a lot of people in them. Factories that require labour get moved out of the country, the Japanese workforce is far to expensive. They said the same shit about the post war baby boomers in North America how the whole system was going to implode under the burden, its just headlines. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[GamerJM]

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

how did you get gaming side and off-topic side topics to be next to each other

 

[numble]

They said the same shit about the post war baby boomers in North America how the whole system was going to implode under the burden, its just headlines. Don't believe everything you read.

The US population and labor force is still expanding. I don't understand why you think they've said the same thing.

 

[Crash Station]

This kind of mentality is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Japan has centuries of history and a very developed, unique culture, and what do people care about, if they can be said to care at all? Videogames and cartoons.

But you know what? Fine. I don't have anything else to say about this. I'll respond if you quote, but my opinions are already pretty clear. I only play Western games, I don't watch anime or read manga, and all the computer hardware and other export products I own were made by American or Chinese companies. For all practical purposes, Japan does not even exist to me, and I'm just going to forget about it.

If it doesn't exist to you, you shouldn't care about people putting it on a pedestal for something as shallow as pop culture. I'm not going to fault you for only liking western-made stuff, so I'd hope you wouldn't fault me for liking Japanese-stuff as well, even if it has nothing to do with its history or temples or anything else beyond the stuff you supposedly hate.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

What are these factories you refer too, as I guy that spent a lot of time working factory automation in Japan I can tell you there is not a lot of people in them. Factories that require labour get moved out of the country, the Japanese workforce is far to expensive. They said the same shit about the post war baby boomers in North America how the whole system was going to implode under the burden, its just headlines. Don't believe everything you read.

That's why this is relevant. Because the predicted implosion is not theorized to occur until later in the future. Japan, however, is starting to hit that point right now. How they handle it will be interesting to watch.

I'm just confused that you only purchase Western made stuff. ....how do you do that? Is it expensive? It sounds REALLY expensive.

I mean, I'm tired of the black/white glorification/villainization of "foreign"/"different" too, but when you said you pretty much only use and purchase "Western" products, that's confusing. You mean American? Or do you mean white, since I think a lot of Europe tends to be pretty opposite of the US, culturally, too... so ... then it'd be a matter of you just disliking certain cultures that are diametric to the US.

I didn't say I purchased things manufactured in the West, I said that I purchased things created by Western and Chinese companies. Most of what I buy is, of course, manufactured in China. I actually did mention Europe when I stated that the EU seems to be an attempt to emulate America, as Europeans apparently would rather live in more homogeneous countries. I didn't mention race at all.

 

[terrisus]

how did you get gaming side and off-topic side topics to be next to each other

Subscriptions >.>

 

[RevDM]

Asked why they were not having sex, 21.3 per cent of the married men claimed they were too fatigued after work while 15.7 per cent replied that they were no longer interested in sex after their wives gave birth.

I hope to god the participants in this survey were not named.

 

[entremet]

I found this to be a myth, they work long hours but so much of it is about status and culture. You don't leave till your boss leaves so they spend a lot of time sitting around not really doing that much work. It is different that is for sure, but I easily got more work done in less time. I never understood why they spend so much time there but I know the people on my team left when I did and we had awesome productivity. As far as working hard I found it right around average.

I agree that's it's not efficient. It's the culture of being at work that's harmful.

 

[jasonng]

Anecdotal, but pretty much every older woman I've been with has been neglected by their husbands since they gave birth to their child.

It's the part that caught my eye the most in the article and is what I've noticed happens most often in China.

Man and woman get married to have a kid. After the kid is born, the husband finds other's to play with.

Not all do it, but it's a huge number that do. Women, being relegated to the household still because China is a very masculine society, are told they can't do these things, but they normally do it anyway because they are human and have sexual needs that need satisfying.

So you come to a thread about libido in Japan to brag about your sexual conquests with Chinese older women with martial problems in another country unrelated to Japan. You sure are an expert in Asian culture.

 

[terrisus]

>.>

 

[darscot]

The US population and labor force is still expanding. I don't understand why you think they've said the same thing.

When I was a just starting to work and I'm 42 now, they went on and on about how you had to plan for your own retirement. If you didn't put enough money away and give every dime you could afford to someone else so they could make money you would have nothing. The baby boomers where going to bankrupt the medical and pension system. So be prepared to have to pay for everything when your old.

I know its not the same thing but you hear this type of thing all the time, Japan is not going to frickin die, its nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think you are oversimplifying things.

Stating the logical outcome of statistical analysis is not "regurgitating an opinion."

We do have other issues. But those other issues are not a serious existential threat.

No one thinks the population will "hit zero." It isn't that simple. The problem isn't that they will "stop breeding" as you put it, but that their population growth becomes too low, or worse, negative. Our entire economic system right now is built on continuous growth, so unless Japan can engineer a way around this conundrum, there will be problems. You can't run a country largely populated by seniors.

It's not a logical outcome, because it assumes that absolutely nothing will be done to combat the situation. You're just extrapolating the current trend without taking into account anything else. There are going to be serious changes when the situation becomes untenable. People are complacent right now, because things are still quite prosperous, but there will come a time in the relatively near future when the situation can no longer be ignored.

 

[terrisus]

Asked why they were not having sex, 21.3 per cent of the married men claimed they were too fatigued after work while 15.7 per cent replied that they were no longer interested in sex after their wives gave birth.

I hope to god the participants in this survey were not named.

Well, I mean, I would imagine they weren't, since that's generally how studies are done.
But, it's not that outlandish of a thing.

My wife and I's inability to have a child has removed my main

Spoiler

/only

reason for wanting to have sex.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

It's not a logical outcome, because it assumes that absolutely nothing will be done to combat the situation. You're just extrapolating the current trend without taking into account anything else. There are going to be serious changes when the situation becomes untenable. People are complacent right now, because things are still quite prosperous, but there will come a time in the relatively near future when the situation can no longer be ignored.

OH! I see the problem here. We are both in agreement that Japan's current course is unsustainable. The only difference is that you think things will change, whereas I'm not so sure.

I don't think I have anything else to say.

 

[Crash Station]

As for comicblizzard, I'm pretty sure he just doesn't want the nation to sink into the sea (or the equivalent) because he likes the entertainment media they produce, not because he thinks the country/culture is any "better" than his own (I assume the US)

Pretty much. I do have some interest in its history and would love to see some of the temples, architecture in general, etc, but my main love of the country comes from its entertainment. That makes me sound like a super uncultured philistine, which I won't deny.

Of course to say that's why I don't want it to die out would come off as pretty ridiculous and insensitive. Seeing an entire culture go regardless of what (provided it isn't inherently harmful) is just all around depressing. First and foremost, I'd want Japan to be happy and stable. Entertainment comes after that.

Edit: And yes, I'm from the US and I love living here. As much as I want to visit Japan, I really can't imagine moving there even for as little as a year. Would also mean I'd need to brush up on my Japanese skills, which were never very good in the first place.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

So you come to a thread about libido in Japan to brag about your sexual conquests with Chinese older women with martial problems in another country unrelated to Japan. You sure are an expert in Asian culture.

Well 15% of those polled are what I was talking about. It was relevant.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

over 15% aren't interested in sex after their wives gave birth huh? that is ridiculous large amount of idiots.....

 

[Seductivpancakes]

That's a shame. Too much work.

So you come to a thread about libido in Japan to brag about your sexual conquests with Chinese older women with martial problems in another country unrelated to Japan. You sure are an expert in Asian culture.

lmao

 

[Deleted member 17706]

OH! I see the problem here. We are both in agreement that Japan's current course is unsustainable. The only difference is that you think things will change, whereas I'm not so sure.

I don't think I have anything else to say.

Yes. I don't think anyone believes the current course Japan is on is sustainable in the slightest. Decades of economic decline is more than enough evidence for that.

I just don't see a situation in which the country allows itself to fall into complete irrelevance. Japanese has gone through some pretty radical change multiple times throughout history. This is a new challenge, but I just don't see a scenario where an entire population more or less just gives up on living.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

over 15% aren't interested in sex after their wives gave birth huh? that is ridiculous large amount of idiots.....

"Just according to Keikaku!"
- Soft on Demand CEO

 

[Deleted member 17706]

over 15% aren't interested in sex after their wives gave birth huh? that is ridiculous large amount of idiots.....

15.7% of 3,000 would be 471. I think it's safe to assume the entire group of 3,000 weren't men, so the number would be even smaller. Doesn't seem like a ridiculously large amount to me.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Yup... being newly single for the first time in 5 years, I would be more than happy to lend a hand to some sex-deprived Japanese honies.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Ah, okay. I must have misinterpreted it then.

I mean, I think it's still kinda odd... I'm Taiwanese, and my family buys a lot of things from Japan because they truly believe that the standards of production are higher in Japan, and that Japanese products tend to be superior, due to Japanese culture.

I don't think this is about idolization of Japanese people or culture. My family actually doesn't like the Japanese government/country/(and to an extent, the people/culture), because of what happened in the war, but... ionno.

To each his/her own.



Oh my lolololol. I would gild you if that were a thing.

This is another issue with Japan. In my "arrogant American" history class, we learned that the firebombing of Japan killed millions of civilians, that the use of atomic weapons was potentially unnecessary and probably wouldn't be permitted today, that the occupation of Japan was a major source of contention, and that America wrote Japan's current constitution that, among other things, stated that they could not have an army, basically so they'd remain dependent on us. Meanwhile, Japan is still trying to censor textbooks. (Sorry that it's the Daily Mail; I'm not entirely familiar with British news other than the BBC but this source seems somewhat unprofessional, but this was the first article on it, as this was on r/worldnews today, ironically.)

Yes. I don't think anyone believes the current course Japan is on is sustainable in the slightest. Decades of economic decline is more than enough evidence for that.

I just don't see a situation in which the country allows itself to fall into complete irrelevance. Japanese has gone through some pretty radical change multiple times throughout history. This is a new challenge, but I just don't see a scenario where an entire population more or less just gives up on living.

In my mind, it practically already has.

 

[numble]

When I was a just starting to work and I'm 42 now, they went on and on about how you had to plan for your own retirement. If you didn't put enough money away and give every dime you could afford to someone else so they could make money you would have nothing. The baby boomers where going to bankrupt the medical and pension system. So be prepared to have to pay for everything when your old.

I know its not the same thing but you hear this type of thing all the time, Japan is not going to frickin die, its nonsense.

But you can see how it is not the same thing when there is a larger workforce and population to support retirees and not a declining workforce and population, right?

 

[whatever77]

What are you implying? That Chinese are the same as Japanese?

I don't see the relevance here.

Don't you love the derails in this thread. There are more tangentially Asian-related side posts coming out of nowhere than actual Japanese demography discussion.