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[RustyNails]

I guess if you ignore the whole trial and Jury decision based on hearing a total of 5-10 minutes of the actual case presented by someone else.

Evidence as a form of testimony is bullshit (some of the time at least). There I said it. I think OJ did it. I don't think Adnan did it. Perjury is still a thing.

 

[Blader]

I read the comments and it seems something happened between the release of the last two parts so the editors had to do major damage control it seems like.

ha, the comments section is actually way more interesting than the interview itself.

 

[Malleymal]

I'm rewatching The Wire right which, by itself, is already a bit weird after listening to Serial but now they are literally looking for bodies in Leakin Park.

Yup my girl and I listened to serial over the course of the last week or two and we are also watching the wire. When they were in the woods, we both said that it could be leakin park and then Lester said it and we were cracking up. This is my third watch of the wire.

 

[Templar Wizard]

What I would really like to know is Adnan's opinion on Jay's motive.
'Your pathetic' is quite an interesting statement and of course can be seen from many sides.
Im in the Adnan did it camp. 'We werent friends, I gave him my phone and my car, we went smoking together' , did he give his phone and his car to everyone he half knew?

 

[EmptySpace]

just finished it. what a ride.


jay is totally guilty.


anyways, why the fuck didn't they test evidence for dna, blood, etc.? are they for real?

 

[Dalek]

Today, Asia McClane released an affadavit to "the Blaze" of all places, "reasserting that she was with Syed at the exact time the state argued that he killed his ex-girlfriend in 1999, and alleging that the original prosecutor in the case essentially convinced her not to participate in the appeals process".

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-in-serial-breaks-silence-with-new-affidavit/

Here is the full transcript on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2t30m0/transcript_of_asia_mclean_new_affidavit/

my favorite part:

I took, and retained, contemporaneous notations of the telephone conversation with Urick.

 

[RustyNails]

Wasn't there an appeal hearing today? What happened?

 

[Chucker]

Wasn't there an appeal hearing today? What happened?

State has until tomorrow to file the response to the application for appeal.

Edit: it's weird, I don't remember seeing that much about this when it happened, but I'm seeing it all over local (Baltimore) channels now.

 

[RustyNails]

Today, Asia McClane released an affadavit to "the Blaze" of all places, "reasserting that she was with Syed at the exact time the state argued that he killed his ex-girlfriend in 1999, and alleging that the original prosecutor in the case essentially convinced her not to participate in the appeals process".

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-in-serial-breaks-silence-with-new-affidavit/

Here is the full transcript on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2t30m0/transcript_of_asia_mclean_new_affidavit/

my favorite part:

Um wow. This is huge.

 

[Dalek]

Um wow. This is huge.

Yeah big time. Again the entire issue here is not whether or not Adnan is guilty, but rather did the justice system essentially do everything in their power to force a sentence on this guy with no incriminating evidence and manipulating all sides. It's fucking crazy.

 

[RedShift]

Today, Asia McClane released an affadavit to "the Blaze" of all places, "reasserting that she was with Syed at the exact time the state argued that he killed his ex-girlfriend in 1999, and alleging that the original prosecutor in the case essentially convinced her not to participate in the appeals process".

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-in-serial-breaks-silence-with-new-affidavit/

Here is the full transcript on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2t30m0/transcript_of_asia_mclean_new_affidavit/

my favorite part:

Really feeling the podcast should have emphasised the prosecutor as the main villain over Jay.

 

[Dalek]

Really feeling the podcast should have emphasised the prosecutor as the main villain over Jay.

This also really makes that fluff piece on the prosecutor a few weeks ago on that other website seem very stupid.

 

[ggnoobIGN]

Really feeling the podcast should have emphasised the prosecutor as the main villain over Jay.

Listening to episode 1 I always thought that's the route they were going to go.

 

[Dalek]

Listening to episode 1 I always thought that's the route they were going to go.

I'm sure Sarah suspected they could go that route-and they certainly could have. I wonder if she was banking on interviewing the prosecution but didn't want to risk alienating them with negative tidbits before hand. Needless to say, everything coming to light since the podcast aired is nearly as interesting as the podcast itself.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Really feeling the podcast should have emphasised the prosecutor as the main villain over Jay.

I never saw Jay as the "villain." He was the big "question mark" however, and because his accounts were the basis for the prosecution's timelines, he became the central figure for the podcast.

 

[biggersmaller]

Some interesting developments:

EXCLUSIVE: Did the ‘Serial’ Prosecutor Obstruct Justice and Suppress a Key Witness?

For the record, my gut tells me Adnan did it. For most murders in real life, the person most likely to have committed the crime did commit the crime. I either have to accept those percentages or hang my hat on Adnan having the worst luck in the world (butt dials, tower pings, eyewitnesses placing him asking for a ride, etc). However, like Koenig - I would surely have to acquit given the weak ass case. I also hope he is released, because the chance my gut is wrong is way too likely.

 

[Malyse]

Really feeling the podcast should have emphasised the prosecutor as the main villain over Jay.

I think there was just more info on Jay than the prosecutor.

 

[JCX]

Never really saw Jay as the villain (our justice system here is), but Jay would have been less of a villain had he talked. Same reason the jury thought Adnan was guilty. Most people don't actually take silence as a good sign.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

For the record, my gut tells me Adnan did it. For most murders in real life, the person most likely to have committed the crime did commit the crime. I either have to accept those percentages or hang my hat on Adnan having the worst luck in the world (butt dials, tower pings, eyewitnesses placing him asking for a ride, etc). However, like Koenig - I would surely have to acquit given the weak ass case. I also hope he is released, because the chance my gut is wrong is way too likely.

But what makes that person Adnan as opposed to Jay?

(I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment that Adnan is the most likely, I'm just less sure I'd have jumped to that conclusion so quickly)

 

[RustyNails]

Some interesting developments:

EXCLUSIVE: Did the ‘Serial’ Prosecutor Obstruct Justice and Suppress a Key Witness?

For the record, my gut tells me Adnan did it. For most murders in real life, the person most likely to have committed the crime did commit the crime. I either have to accept those percentages or hang my hat on Adnan having the worst luck in the world (butt dials, tower pings, eyewitnesses placing him asking for a ride, etc). However, like Koenig - I would surely have to acquit given the weak ass case. I also hope he is released, because the chance my gut is wrong is way too likely.

Well my question now is why would Urick make such a bald faced lie? He'd at least have to give possibility to the chance that Asia may come out and say he's lying. My guess is now he will go scorch-earth and make Asia look unreliable (if he did lie under oath, which I'm in doubt about.

 

[VanMardigan]

Again the entire issue here is not whether or not Adnan is guilty, but rather did the justice system essentially do everything in their power to force a sentence on this guy with no incriminating evidence and manipulating all sides.

Why are we brushing aside where or not Adnan is guilty?

 

[Dr.Acula]

Why are we brushing aside where or not Adnan is guilty?

There has been a long history of planting or manipulating evidence to put away "surely guilty" individuals who were later exonerated through DNA. It's dangerous to think that it's okay for shortcuts to be taken (like not checking alibis or doing DNA tests) when the suspect "definitely, totally, for reals did it."

 

[Dalek]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/serial-alibi-witness-asia-mcclain-says-she-never-recanted-her-story/

UPDATE — 5:03 p.m. ET: In an email to Mediaite, Serial producer Julie Snyder described the latest affidavit from Asia McClain as an affirmation of her original statements as opposed to any sort of “reversal” from what she had previously said on the record. She added:

The fact that Asia stands by her original account of Jan 13, 1999, isn’t new — Sarah reported it on Episode 12 of the podcast. This past December Asia had expressed her concerns to us about how Kevin Urick characterized their phone conversation when he testified in court in 2010, but she asked that Serial not report those concerns at that time. We honored Asia’s request on that. (She also told us today that it’s fine to tell people that fact.) As far as I can tell, everything in The Blaze story looks accurate.

 

[VanMardigan]

There has been a long history of planting or manipulating evidence to put away "surely guilty" individuals who were later exonerated through DNA. It's dangerous to think that it's okay for shortcuts to be taken (like not checking alibis or doing DNA tests) when the suspect "definitely, totally, for reals did it."

Lack of DNA testing was a choice both the prosecution and defense made. The veteran investigator hired by Serial looked at the entire case and concluded that it was handled solidly by the cops. It's easy to look at the case 15 years later and try to poke holes in it, especially when the lead witness has such horrible recall, but I think Urick was doing his job at the time. I don't see widespread evidence of evidence manipulation yet. I think Adnan's bigger problems were his own selective memory, lack of alibi at key points, poor choices that day, and a terrible performance by his lawyer at trial. Those did more to doom him than Urick.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I'm still curious about Don. His alibi is not that solid, and there was some other article a while back, saying that Hae got gas at a gas station not close to Woodlawn on the day she was murdered. Plus, Hae did have that note for Don in her car.

 

[SickBoy]

Lack of DNA testing was a choice both the prosecution and defense made. The veteran investigator hired by Serial looked at the entire case and concluded that it was handled solidly by the cops. It's easy to look at the case 15 years later and try to poke holes in it, especially when the lead witness has such horrible recall, but I think Urick was doing his job at the time.

From Ep. 12:

"We worried. Did we just spend a year applying excessive scrutiny to a perfectly ordinary case? So we called Jim Trainum back up. He’s the former homicide detective we hired to review the investigation and we asked him, “is Adnan’s case unremarkable? If we took a magnifying glass to any murder case, would we find similar questions, similar holes, similar inconsistencies?” Trainum said no. He said most cases, sure they have some ambiguity, but overall, they’re fairly clear. This one is a mess he said. The holes are bigger than they should be. Other people who review cases, lawyers, a forensic psychologist, they told us the same thing. This case is a mess."

 

[Dalek]

Lack of DNA testing was a choice both the prosecution and defense made. The veteran investigator hired by Serial looked at the entire case and concluded that it was handled solidly by the cops. It's easy to look at the case 15 years later and try to poke holes in it, especially when the lead witness has such horrible recall, but I think Urick was doing his job at the time. I don't see widespread evidence of evidence manipulation yet. I think Adnan's bigger problems were his own selective memory, lack of alibi at key points, poor choices that day, and a terrible performance by his lawyer at trial. Those did more to doom him than Urick.

From Ep. 12:

"We worried. Did we just spend a year applying excessive scrutiny to a perfectly ordinary case? So we called Jim Trainum back up. He’s the former homicide detective we hired to review the investigation and we asked him, “is Adnan’s case unremarkable? If we took a magnifying glass to any murder case, would we find similar questions, similar holes, similar inconsistencies?” Trainum said no. He said most cases, sure they have some ambiguity, but overall, they’re fairly clear. This one is a mess he said. The holes are bigger than they should be. Other people who review cases, lawyers, a forensic psychologist, they told us the same thing. This case is a mess."

Speaking of selective memory...

 

[CDX]

So if this new affidavit from Asia somehow leads to a new trial for Adnan, I think the state wont go through with another trial. Adnan will walk.



I pretty sure most reasonable people agree that the timeline presented in court with the 2:36PM "Come get me I'm at Best Buy" call is wrong.

• Asia says she saw Adnan at the library around 2:40PM.
  
• Summer on the podcast says she saw Hae around that time or possibly closer to 3PM in the School Gym.

So, I feel pretty confident Hae was alive and not dead before 2:36.




The state's old timeline is contradicted by eye witnesses. Jay's new story is NOT supported by the cell phone record. The have nothing more than Jay's word, and without something like a cell phone record to back up Jay's claims I don't think Jay alone is enough for a new trial let alone a guilty conviction.

 

[Dalek]

So if this new affidavit from Asia somehow leads to a new trial for Adnan, I think the state wont go through with another trial. Adnan will walk.



I pretty sure most reasonable people agree that the timeline presented in court with the 2:36PM "Come get me I'm at Best Buy" call is wrong.

• Asia says she saw Adnan at the library around 2:40PM.
  
• Summer on the podcast says she saw Hae around that time or possibly closer to 3PM in the School Gym.

So, I feel pretty confident Hae was alive and not dead before 2:36.




The state's old timeline is contradicted by eye witnesses. Jay's new story is NOT supported by the cell phone record. The have nothing more than Jay's word, and without something like a cell phone record to back up Jay's claims I don't think Jay alone is enough for a new trial let alone a guilty conviction.

and this doesn't even take into account the results of the DNA testing.

 

[turtle553]

So if this new affidavit from Asia somehow leads to a new trial for Adnan, I think the state wont go through with another trial. Adnan will walk.



I pretty sure most reasonable people agree that the timeline presented in court with the 2:36PM "Come get me I'm at Best Buy" call is wrong.

• Asia says she saw Adnan at the library around 2:40PM.
  
• Summer on the podcast says she saw Hae around that time or possibly closer to 3PM in the School Gym.

So, I feel pretty confident Hae was alive and not dead before 2:36.




The state's old timeline is contradicted by eye witnesses. Jay's new story is NOT supported by the cell phone record. The have nothing more than Jay's word, and without something like a cell phone record to back up Jay's claims I don't think Jay alone is enough for a new trial let alone a guilty conviction.

This new affidavit seems to just support her previous statements that didn't quite line up with the weather reports of those days. http://serialpodcast.org/posts/2014/11/weather-report

I'm sure she believes what she says now, but I doubt it will mean much after 15 years by itself.

 

[TTG]

So, now that I've finished, I decided to check in and it's surprising how this story has snowballed and is now being dissected by the internet(at a cursory glance anyway) while some sort of litigation is still proceeding. It's one thing to have the conversation framed as uncovering a mystery from 15 years ago via a little podcast that will at most(presumably) rally enough attention to force another look at the case down the road, this is something else now.

Here's some stuff that stood out to me, I'm sure if you've been discussing it for the past however long it's old news:

1. It was Adnon's idea to loan the car and phone.

2. Adnon can't confidently account for his whereabouts on that day not only before but post the missing persons detective's phone call.

3. Adnon's phone is in the Leakin park area during the time the body was supposedly buried and it's supposed to be in Adnon's possession at the time.

4. There's a call from Adnon's phone to someone Jay doesn't know later that day.

5. Adnon is seen around town with Jay after school, at that girl's apartment where they smoked.

So, assuming you buy what Adnon is saying entirely, Jay quickly turns into a mastermind. He either manipulates Adnon in such a way that he's left thinking it was his idea to loan car and phone, or Jay seizes the moment and improvises a sort of plan to implicate Adnon when the opportunity presents itself on the spot. That's one. Opposite Jay, Adnon looks scatterbrained, how is a call from a missing persons detective not a landmark moment for recall? Remember he couldn't come up with something then, not just 15 years later at the present moment. That's two. Three and Five are related in that the alternate explanation must be that Jay is busy parading Adnon and himself around town during that time. He does this knowingly, to leave a connection between them for when the heat eventually catches up to him. But, he's not only borderline brilliant on this day, he's lucky too because it just so coincides that they hit off the Leakin Park tower at the time he would later claim they buried the body together(which would then have to be buried at another time in a completely unrelated, untold manner). How does that work? That's three and five. Last is the phone call. Butt dial? No, no way. I suppose it's slightly more feasible that our mastermind Jay decided to speed dial a number on Adnon's phone for precisely this reason. Because someone would check and note that it sure as hell appears that it is Adnon who is using the phone at a crucial time. And wasn't this one of the first cases to use cell phone tech.? Jay is really on his game and up to speed on the latest in police tactics. That or another unlucky coincidence, Adnon can't remember when he did what, so he did call, but his shaky account for that day is undermined by himself there. Turning that alibi from shaky to somewhere below worthless, suspect is the word, I suppose. That's four.

So, the question is then: what is Adnon lying about? We know Jay is lying, Sarah doesn't have to work hard to paint him as Baron Munchhausen, he does it himself. But how involved in Adnon really?

EDIT: I wonder why we never got a piece of tape. Sarah: Jay knew the location of Hae's car. How could that be? And then Adnon would answer. Were his thoughts on that topic ever voiced?

 

[Dalek]

Here's some stuff that stood out to me, I'm sure if you've been discussing it for the past however long it's old news:

1. It was Adnon's idea to loan the car and phone.

Court docs:Jay asked for car; phone left inside (not lent by Adnan)

3. Adnon's phone is in the Leakin park area during the time the body was supposedly buried and it's supposed to be in Adnon's possession at the time.

Not according to the new testimony from Jay a few weeks ago. He recounted this and his new timeline changes the prosecutions argument.

 

[TTG]

Court docs:Jay asked for car; phone left inside (not lent by Adnan)/

I wish this was made clearer in the podcast. Nice find! It's still an elaborate plan on Jay's part.

Not according to the new testimony from Jay a few weeks ago. He recounted this and his new timeline changes the prosecutions argument.

I assume this is the bit from the interview:

Did you go to Leakin Park immediately after agreeing to help?

No. Adnan left and then returned to my house several hours later, closer to midnight in his own car. He came back with no tools or anything."

Not exactly testimony and it's "closer" to midnight and it's 15 years later and Jay lied about a whole bunch of shit. I'll read the rest and get back here. But it still puts Adnan's phone in the Leakin park area at night, much to Jay's advantage.

Think about what a great frame it is by an 18 year old and how the cell records line up for Jay and against Adnan. As of now, I don't see how Adnan is entirely out of it, I really don't.

EDIT: from the same interview:

He said then, ‘No, I gotta go do something. I’m going to be late for practice, so just drop me off. Take my car, take my cellphone. I’ll call you from someone else’s phone when I’m done.’

Yea, we can't pick and choose from all of Jay's bullshit things we like best.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

From Ep. 12:

"We worried. Did we just spend a year applying excessive scrutiny to a perfectly ordinary case? So we called Jim Trainum back up. He’s the former homicide detective we hired to review the investigation and we asked him, “is Adnan’s case unremarkable? If we took a magnifying glass to any murder case, would we find similar questions, similar holes, similar inconsistencies?” Trainum said no. He said most cases, sure they have some ambiguity, but overall, they’re fairly clear. This one is a mess he said. The holes are bigger than they should be. Other people who review cases, lawyers, a forensic psychologist, they told us the same thing. This case is a mess."

In his first appearance on the show, Trainum said the overall quality of the investigation was better than usual, but he later said that the case has a lot of ambiguity (as the excerpt you posted demonstrates). I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[SickBoy]

In his first appearance on the show, Trainum said the overall quality of the investigation was better than usual, but he later said that the case has a lot of ambiguity (as the excerpt you posted demonstrates). I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

My problem with the post I was replying to was that it invoked Trainum, then stated that "It's easy to look at the case 15 years later and try to poke holes in it," when Trainum himself notes that those holes are much bigger and more problematic than you'd expect.

 

[Neoweee]

For the record, my gut tells me Adnan did it. For most murders in real life, the person most likely to have committed the crime did commit the crime. I either have to accept those percentages or hang my hat on Adnan having the worst luck in the world (butt dials, tower pings, eyewitnesses placing him asking for a ride, etc).

That's really not something that is reasonable to believe in a society that regularly imprisons the wrong people for decades, and semi-regularly murders the wrong people because of that kind of logic.

 

[VanMardigan]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

My problem with the post I was replying to was that it invoked Trainum, then stated that "It's easy to look at the case 15 years later and try to poke holes in it," when Trainum himself notes that those holes are much bigger and more problematic than you'd expect.

What I said about Trainun was: "The veteran investigator hired by Serial looked at the entire case and concluded that it was handled solidly by the cops". I think that's consistent with what he said initially about the investigation. The part about poking holes in my post is immediately followed by a discussion on Jay. I wasn't conflating the two.

 

[biggersmaller]

That's really not something that is reasonable to believe in a society that regularly imprisons the wrong people for decades, and semi-regularly murders the wrong people because of that kind of logic.

I already said he should not be in jail. I made that pretty clear in the portion of text you cut from the quote. I'm just saying my gut tells me he probably did it. Again, I find it unlikely he simply had shitty luck with eyewitness misunderstandings at school, random happenstances with phones, cell tower pings, and bouts of forgetfulness - shit that has nothing to do with that freak show of a trial. Basically, if I had to place a $20,000 bet on his involvement, then given a time machine to conclusively prove what happened, I would have to bet he did it.

Spoiler

Then obviously use the time machine to prevent the murder, kill Hitler, etc.

 

[VanMardigan]

It's how I feel as well: he shouldn't be in jail based on the thin case against him....... But he probably did it. I can even understand how some people feel he probably didn't do it. But folks that are absolutely, thoroughly convinced that he has nothing to do with the crime? I find it hard to understand how they can justify that.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

It's how I feel as well: he shouldn't be in jail based on the thin case against him....... But he probably did it. I can even understand how some people feel he probably didn't do it. But folks that are absolutely, thoroughly convinced that he has nothing to do with the crime? I find it hard to understand how they can justify that.

The only thing that one can hold up as a possible link to him was that Jay knew where Hae's car was. Even still, the timeline that prosecutors have as to when Hae passed away is completely dependent on whether you buy Jay's story or not, and there are so many inconsistencies in Jay's story that he's unreliable at best and outright lying at his worst.

Like others have said, it's simply not enough to put Adnon behind bars. The only thing that i would point to from having listened to the podcast myself and say "well that's really suspect" was that Adnon was willing to plea bargain his way out of it all. If i knew i had nothing to do with Hae's death there is no way in a thousand years i'd ever go for a plea deal because fuck that, i didn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to that, regardless of how terrible prison life is, because i couldn't live with that hanging over my head.

 

[VanMardigan]

The only thing that one can hold up as a possible link to him was that Jay knew where Hae's car was.

We have the fact that he asked Hae for a ride several times, and told Jay he would do so. The palm print on the map. The leakin park pings. The lack of alibi that evening combined with his apparent complete lack of recall. The "I will kill" note. He may have been the only person that whole day who didn't piece together just how important his role was in the disappearance. Not after Hae's brother called, not after the cop called, not after Hae's other friends called. You don't get a conviction without Jay, but I do think you cast Adnan as the main suspect without Jay.

 

[Malyse]

We have the fact that he asked Hae for a ride several times, and told Jay he would do so. The palm print on the map. The leakin park pings. The lack of alibi that evening combined with his apparent complete lack of recall. The "I will kill" note. He may have been the only person that whole day who didn't piece together just how important his role was in the disappearance. Not after Hae's brother called, not after the cop called, not after Hae's other friends called. You don't get a conviction without Jay, but I do think you cast Adnan as the main suspect without Jay.

Palm print holds little validity, they were fucking in her car. Same with the cell phone pings; that's been shredded already. Lacking alibi and recall are not uncommon.

And the real point is that you can't say that Adnan is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Opposite Jay, Adnon looks scatterbrained, how is a call from a missing persons detective not a landmark moment for recall?

He was high.

 

[VanMardigan]

And the real point is that you can't say that Adnan is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Seriously, read the thread. Not only did I already state he shouldn't have been convicted on what we know, but we also discussed how nobody in this thread is a juror therefore we are not held to that "beyond reasonable doubt" standard. We really need to move beyond that when everyone in this thread is just discussing their opinions and speculation.

 

[pantsmith]

We have the fact that he asked Hae for a ride several times, and told Jay he would do so. The palm print on the map. The leakin park pings. The lack of alibi that evening combined with his apparent complete lack of recall. The "I will kill" note. He may have been the only person that whole day who didn't piece together just how important his role was in the disappearance. Not after Hae's brother called, not after the cop called, not after Hae's other friends called. You don't get a conviction without Jay, but I do think you cast Adnan as the main suspect without Jay.

The palm print was on a map of the entire area they lived, and would have spent most of their time, and taken with context Leaken Park was a tiny part of that map. There is nothing there to draw any other conclusion than "Adnan was in a car where he regularly got laid, Adnan touched a map". Leaken Park was not circled or marked in any way.

Like others have said, it's simply not enough to put Adnon behind bars. The only thing that i would point to from having listened to the podcast myself and say "well that's really suspect" was that Adnon was willing to plea bargain his way out of it all. If i knew i had nothing to do with Hae's death there is no way in a thousand years i'd ever go for a plea deal because fuck that, i didn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to that, regardless of how terrible prison life is, because i couldn't live with that hanging over my head.

I agree with you as a free man, but I'm sure 15 years of prison, with the rest of my life there ahead of me, would do a number to change my mind. Plenty of people take pleas to minimize the gaps in their life.

Also, I think the plea bargain comment was meant to show that he was not given proper counsel, not that he wanted to take it.

 

[Blader]

Like others have said, it's simply not enough to put Adnon behind bars. The only thing that i would point to from having listened to the podcast myself and say "well that's really suspect" was that Adnon was willing to plea bargain his way out of it all. If i knew i had nothing to do with Hae's death there is no way in a thousand years i'd ever go for a plea deal because fuck that, i didn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to that, regardless of how terrible prison life is, because i couldn't live with that hanging over my head.

Adnan didn't ask for a plea bargain, and in fact has done the opposite, maintaining his innocence for 15 years. The point about the plea bargain isn't that Adnan wanted a plea bargin and his lawyer refused, but that she didn't put that on the table to begin with so he wasn't given a lay out of all of his options.

 

[SickBoy]

I'm going to address a couple of issues that will betray the stupid amount of time I've been reading stuff about this case (though the amount of time some folks on Reddit spend on it is scary).

Adnan didn't ask for a plea bargain, and in fact has done the opposite, maintaining his innocence for 15 years. The point about the plea bargain isn't that Adnan wanted a plea bargin and his lawyer refused, but that she didn't put that on the table to begin with so he wasn't given a lay out of all of his options.

Actually, he did: When Gutierrez falsely reported to Adnan that Asia’s statement had not checked out, he was left without any alibi for the short window of time between the end of school and track practice that day. He was advised by other inmates to see if the state would offer a plea because, given the breadth of charges he faced, if convicted he would get a life sentence. And so Adnan asked Gutierrez. Twice, she told him no, the state was not offering a plea.

http://observer.com/2015/01/exclusi...-obstruct-justice-and-suppress-a-key-witness/

What I said about Trainun was: "The veteran investigator hired by Serial looked at the entire case and concluded that it was handled solidly by the cops". I think that's consistent with what he said initially about the investigation. The part about poking holes in my post is immediately followed by a discussion on Jay. I wasn't conflating the two.

Fair enough, hope you can see why I took it the way I did.

But, he's not only borderline brilliant on this day, he's lucky too because it just so coincides that they hit off the Leakin Park tower at the time he would later claim they buried the body together(which would then have to be buried at another time in a completely unrelated, untold manner). How does that work?

I think it's noteworthy that Jim Trainum notes that it's unclear about what happens in the dark time of Jay's police interviews -- what's happening off the record. There's this chunk of comment in a court ruling on Adnan's appeal that I find especially troubling: "(MacGillivary) interviewed Jay a second time on March 15, 1999, and confronted Wilds with appelant's cell phone records. After he pointed out that Wilds' statement did not match the phone records, Wilds "remembered things a lot better."" Take it with whatever grain of salt you must, but Adnan's supporters will tell you it's the impetus behind a dramatic shift to match the prosecution's story.

Susan Simpson, a lawyer who clearly believes Adnan is innocent notes this striking change in Jay's story: that it shifts to conform with an error on their original plotting of the cell map, and then shifts back as the prosecution presumably realizes the error headed into the second trial. I refuse to make some of the same leaps she does (she firmly states that this is proof of coaching), but it certainly is curious: http://viewfromll2.com/2015/01/13/s...ached-to-fit-the-cellphone-records/#more-4764

I am firmly in the "I have no idea what happened" group. But while some of the cell evidence is certainly intriguing, I don't find it to be firm proof... and I think some of the questions surrounding its accuracy, whether Jay tailored his story to fit, and what other stories the same data could tell us (in another post, Simpson suggests only 6/22 pings of calls about which Jay testified match the phone's alleged location). None of these questions mean Adnan didn't do it, but they do make me wonder and, for me, render it pretty impossible to say that there isn't another explanation for what happened.

I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating every time I post: I don't have any emotional investment in Adnan... I'm not pulling for him because I don't know what happened -- in fact, I'd rather something emerge to prove his guilt because then it means by some ass-backwards good fortune, at least the right guy is in jail.

 

[the_log_ride]

Subbing. Lots of catch up to do, and staying away from all spoilers til then. Loving this so far, though.

 

[VanMardigan]

I'm going to address a couple of issues that will betray the stupid amount of time I've been reading stuff about this case (though the amount of time some folks on Reddit spend on it is scary).

I've spent time on reddit too, and I also don't care what the outcome is other than I hope we get one. I'm in the "he probably did it" camp but not married to that position. In any case, since you've spent a lot of time looking at this....what's your take on the nisha call?

 

[SickBoy]

I've spent time on reddit too, and I also don't care what the outcome is other than I hope we get one. I'm in the "he probably did it" camp but not married to that position. In any case, since you've spent a lot of time looking at this....what's your take on the nisha call?

One of the beliefs about this case I hold pretty firmly is that the Nisha call discussed at trial (in which Adnan puts Jay on the phone with Nisha) didn't happen this day. The video store element to that conversation is a pretty clear indication of that, IMO.

I think it could be a butt dial (while a lot of people call this unlikely, there are a bunch of anecdotes of people who had the same kind of phone -- or similar Nokia phones -- having trouble with butt dials) or it could've been Adnan speaking with her. But based on what I've read/heard of her testimony, the idea that Jay spoke with her on the day of the murder is BS.