Gamezone
Gold Member
I almost forgot. It looks like ScreamRide also will feature some really advanced physics as well. I think it`s an offline game. You can see some of it here:
http://youtu.be/4SfvRzivYnE
http://youtu.be/4SfvRzivYnE
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Crackdown for Xbox One (Cloudgine, original director, UE4)
- Thread starter ClivePwned
- Start date
Ok, but now imagine that instead of a rollercoaster hitting one building, and the game stopping to do basically nothing else at that point... the building was one in an entire city, and 4 players each with armed with rocket launchers, may be firing at multiple building at the same time. They would all also need to see the exact same destruction, even if one of them only drives up to the scene halfway during the collapse.
Still viable locally?
Just because you can do some things with physics locally, doesn't mean that it can't still be improved upon.
flaxknuckles
Member
I don't think we have enough information or gameplay to argue against or for Crackdown using the cloud for it's destruction so this argument is just silly as hell right now.
User 479360
Banned
When I was sitting in the stands at Microsoft's presser and they announced this, it became one of my more anticipated titles. It's still a ways off, though, it seems...so I'm not getting too excited right now.
Crackdown can be really fun when done well. The second game was lazy, though.
Crackdown can be really fun when done well. The second game was lazy, though.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Crackdown 1 was so good.
I wouldn't say we're even arguing about Crackdown right now. More the idea that there's any benefit to offloading tasks... which even going purely by released stuff (Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2, almost any MMO) it can be clearly seen that you can do stuff utilising computational resources online, that wouldn't be feasible to process locally.
If a console can run a game whilst doing X calculations, then it can do more by not having to calculate X. It's a pretty simple concept, that I'm surprised meets so much resistance on this forum,
That DRM would help stop piracy on the PC. Consoles already have DRM and an online connection would do nothing
What makes his word more reliable than an actual tech demo or the people actually working on it? I'm not discrediting him but it's his work vs actual proof of concept.
To be fair dude, obviously this gen can handle more physics. Although, as you know, there's still a limit; which they're trying to exceed by using server farming for physics. I mean, if they have the power and resource to achieve this for Crackdown, they may as well flaunt it. It has the potential.
If anything, this is more feasible than streaming services like PS Now. Rather than having latency effect your all game, which gives the sense of input lag, only the situations which aren't effected by latency are sent up to the cloud. Lets face it, who's going to notice if a building explodes 30ms after we hit it with a rocket launcher?
That would work fantastically with Crackdown. Easily the best part of Shadow of Mordor. Anything to add depth to your encounters - without bogging the whole thing down in cutscenes - is a plus in my book.
Stare-Bear
Banned
Show, don't tell...
So far we've only seen that one demo on a beast of a pc with the server probably a 100ft away.
So far we've only seen that one demo on a beast of a pc with the server probably a 100ft away.
Well, he's a competitor, so yeah. He's not gonna say "dang, I wish we thought of that!"
Show, don't tell...
So far we've only seen that one demo on a beast of a pc with the server probably a 100ft away.
We've seen another short gif a dev posted here.
Link?
I don't believe for a second that a high end PC from 2014 would claw its way through 2FPS because of what is being shown here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O04ErnJ8USY
That's a whole year earlier than MS's demo.
oldergamer
Member
Great demo on PC, but not nearly as many chunks are rendering. The server streamed demo had almost 60,000 chunks falling and animating. Also, shooting the base caused geometry above to collapse or fall apart. Still really impressive for both demos.
I don't know, did you count them? The NVidia demo also has a lot more particle effects going on (fairly decent dust effects) and proper lighting/shadowing. Which ain't cheap.
There's some really funky stuff happening with MS's framerate counter too.
50% drop in framerate when all that happened was firing that one first shot? Is this running on a high end PC from 1999?
oldergamer
Member
Ignore the dust FX and lighting & shadowing, they wouldn't have had any impact on the physics demonstration, otherwise if they did Nvidia would have disabled it. The two demos are performing differing levels of complexity.
Did you read the comments on the Nvidia demo? Other people noticed the same thing i did. Shooting out pillars below, didn't cause the roof above to fall ( which is similar to the type of destruction in red faction.). The Server based demo actually allowed you to take the base out first, which then forces objects above crumble or fall. It was calculating much more to be able to achieve this.
There's some really funky stuff happening with MS's framerate counter too.
50% drop in framerate when all that happened was firing that one first shot? Is this running on a high end PC from 1999?
Obviously there's some local calculations happening for the first shot or something loaded or windows farted, so what? That doesn't prove anything.
You know all those comparison to Red Faction guerilla and between tech demos and "but it doesn't compare clearly look it's non-pre-rendered 2000000 billion chunks" make me think, in the end I'm a stupid human being and what will matter to me will be how impressive the end result looks. If CD's destruction is 200 times more compute-heavy than Guerilla but looks and plays almost like it, I won't really give a crap what's going on behind the scenes 
Techs achievement are nice but I'm here to play a game personally, so I only care if the *result* is more impressive
I totally agree, at this point this discussion can't really go anywhere imo.
But even a year from now when we have infos and gameplay footage... :
I think the problem will always be the part about "that wouldn't be feasible locally". None of us here (unless we worked as engineers on said games) has enough tech knowledge to say wether or not what's happening in the cloud "couldn't be done locally", be it drivatars, grunts, etc. So I guess people will argue about this 'till the end of times really.
Much like those debates about framerate and resolution. "But x game can run 1080p60 on this console so why can't game y ?? surely lazydevs right".
Now this, I think everyone can agree on. Even if whatever the cloud does could be done locally, the fact that the console isn't doing it can only mean it has more room to do other things
The resistance probably comes from the fact that some people (not me) would rather have the choice to switch to a lesser experience and not have it require an internet connection.
Which then brings into play the "how much does it really bring to the experience" (or "how much does it need the cloud to run") question, which I suppose can be both subjective (from a player experience standpoint) and beyond most of us' knowledge (from a tech standpoint), so that's the point where the debate becomes stale again imo :/
I must have missed that, I'd be interested to see.
Techs achievement are nice but I'm here to play a game personally, so I only care if the *result* is more impressive
I totally agree, at this point this discussion can't really go anywhere imo.
But even a year from now when we have infos and gameplay footage... :
I think the problem will always be the part about "that wouldn't be feasible locally". None of us here (unless we worked as engineers on said games) has enough tech knowledge to say wether or not what's happening in the cloud "couldn't be done locally", be it drivatars, grunts, etc. So I guess people will argue about this 'till the end of times really.
Much like those debates about framerate and resolution. "But x game can run 1080p60 on this console so why can't game y ?? surely lazydevs right".
Now this, I think everyone can agree on. Even if whatever the cloud does could be done locally, the fact that the console isn't doing it can only mean it has more room to do other things
The resistance probably comes from the fact that some people (not me) would rather have the choice to switch to a lesser experience and not have it require an internet connection.
Which then brings into play the "how much does it really bring to the experience" (or "how much does it need the cloud to run") question, which I suppose can be both subjective (from a player experience standpoint) and beyond most of us' knowledge (from a tech standpoint), so that's the point where the debate becomes stale again imo :/
I must have missed that, I'd be interested to see.
I don't really think these are two very similar situations (1080p60 vs for example running an entire instance of Forza Horizon 2's world constantly). There's simply too much logical deduction that can be made here with even a slight amount of knowledge about how games generally work. Tracking all traffic, in all places and handling all collisions, and updating all players simply isn't something that's going to be happening on a single console which is also responsible for running it's own instance of the game itself. There's enough examples or very simple implementations (Outrun 2) not being able to do as such, despite it being fundamental to the game's design, yet the second server/cloud integration is added (FH1 to FH2 for example) the problem is magically alleviated.
It's one of those situations where we may not know everything, but we're at the point where the effect should be assumed, and evidence produced against it, rather than the other way around.
unapersson
Member
If talking about cloud processing in a game like this I could think of a few things it could be used for:
Modelling a whole city at a realistic scale, exteriors of buildings and interiors. Able to grow over time with different buildings and interiors.
Every building destructable, being able to blow holes in them and have them collapse, I.e. kicking someone at a building and having them go through one wall and out the other side. Then being able to go in through the entrance you've just made.
Once you've hit a threshold of destruction they could send the army after you, working like an army would in an RTS. Different squads all advancing at the same time with the goal to contain/kill you. Able to be much more dynamic than an offline machine rendering the immediate area.
Will be interesting to hear what it's actually being used for.
Modelling a whole city at a realistic scale, exteriors of buildings and interiors. Able to grow over time with different buildings and interiors.
Every building destructable, being able to blow holes in them and have them collapse, I.e. kicking someone at a building and having them go through one wall and out the other side. Then being able to go in through the entrance you've just made.
Once you've hit a threshold of destruction they could send the army after you, working like an army would in an RTS. Different squads all advancing at the same time with the goal to contain/kill you. Able to be much more dynamic than an offline machine rendering the immediate area.
Will be interesting to hear what it's actually being used for.
Now I want a game where one person controls an army RTS style and tries to take down a group of Crackdown Agents.
IGN mentioned it had framerate dips that ruin the moment when you destroy a building.
Cool. The text is interesting too.
This is what I am allowed to share.
Running in real-time on XBO. Very early wip, so don't care for the lighting and so on. It is a very basic frequency test where the grass splines update 12 times a second. This is nothing special so far. The cool thing is tho that the start and endpoints of our splines influenced by wind and objects are being calculated by Azure. This means: the physic calculations you see are costing us pretty much no local power (excluding GPU ofc). We can use the saved power for other things - like AI, animations and so on. We are very proud of it - especially since we completely eliminated any chance of clipping. I just wanted to add that here.
And no, this won't be a golf/grass/whatever simulator - I just thought maybe it is interesting to see
Also, elsewhere in the thread Kampfheld mentions vegetations, grass and water as other stuff using the cloud, in what most likely is Crackdown, unless he wasn't working on it at the time.
Edit : Actually the related thread is a goldmine of Kampheld posts, read them all
Namely i see I was right that not forcing cloud upon everyone means developing everything twice. Huge bummer
It could be anything from a random engine fluke to unseen pre-calculations once the trajectory was in place. The presentation was about offloading CPU components to a scene.
Namely i see I was right that not forcing cloud upon everyone means developing everything twice. Huge bummer
Well, he also said:
So it could be an online-only game. Is it confirmed the game he's working on is Crackdown? Said he couldn't talk about the game he's working on till 2015 -- but he's in this thread.
That gif has nothing to do with Crackdown by the way. It was an older project. That project is on ice right now. I don't know if it will ever see the light of day. That said, the things I learned there are important for everything coming in the future.
One more thing is very important to me. I can communicate here - that's totally fine. Obviously I can not share any "new" things - but at least some backgrounds and insights. Communication is important to understand expectations and doubts of the targeted community in my opinion. Also - and I am just honest at that point - it motivates me personally to see excitement and getting direct input. However, I already notice comments twisting my words and/or interpreting too much into them. Let's just be fair to each other and we are cool!
Crackdown is an ambitious project. Personally, I want you to love that game. Because my own passion for the universe is huge.
Keep posting your ideas or wishes for the next installment. The people involved are reading them. Really.
One more thing is very important to me. I can communicate here - that's totally fine. Obviously I can not share any "new" things - but at least some backgrounds and insights. Communication is important to understand expectations and doubts of the targeted community in my opinion. Also - and I am just honest at that point - it motivates me personally to see excitement and getting direct input. However, I already notice comments twisting my words and/or interpreting too much into them. Let's just be fair to each other and we are cool!
Crackdown is an ambitious project. Personally, I want you to love that game. Because my own passion for the universe is huge.
Keep posting your ideas or wishes for the next installment. The people involved are reading them. Really.
That gif has nothing to do with Crackdown by the way. It was an older project. That project is on ice right now. I don't know if it will ever see the light of day. That said, the things I learned there are important for everything coming in the future.
One more thing is very important to me. I can communicate here - that's totally fine. Obviously I can not share any "new" things - but at least some backgrounds and insights. Communication is important to understand expectations and doubts of the targeted community in my opinion. Also - and I am just honest at that point - it motivates me personally to see excitement and getting direct input. However, I already notice comments twisting my words and/or interpreting too much into them. Let's just be fair to each other and we are cool!
Crackdown is an ambitious project. Personally, I want you to love that game. Because my own passion for the universe is huge.
Keep posting your ideas or wishes for the next installment. The people involved are reading them. Really.
Keep posting, some of us love Crackdown!
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
That gif has nothing to do with Crackdown by the way. It was an older project. That project is on ice right now. I don't know if it will ever see the light of day. That said, the things I learned there are important for everything coming in the future.
One more thing is very important to me. I can communicate here - that's totally fine. Obviously I can not share any "new" things - but at least some backgrounds and insights. Communication is important to understand expectations and doubts of the targeted community in my opinion. Also - and I am just honest at that point - it motivates me personally to see excitement and getting direct input. However, I already notice comments twisting my words and/or interpreting too much into them. Let's just be fair to each other and we are cool!
Crackdown is an ambitious project. Personally, I want you to love that game. Because my own passion for the universe is huge.
Keep posting your ideas or wishes for the next installment. The people involved are reading them. Really.
I loved the way the story was done in Crackdown, ie you got near an area and you got a voiceover and a little pictiure of your target. They should keep that. Also too me Crackdown was as much about collecting orbs and gradually getting stronger to reach higher orbs as it was anything else. I don't think I should reach full jumping height till i've collected the last orb.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Crackdown doesn't need that much destruction. It's a game that's about platforming first and foremost. Destroying all the buildings pretty much defeats the point...
It also makes me worry about the direction of the game. The fact that buildings can be completely destroyed makes me think that platforming is no longer the main focus, certainly not in the same that it was CD 1 and 2. It also suggests that orbs won't be hard to find or reach unless it's full of rogue orbs.
And that footage isn't that representative of SC, here's some recent footage,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW120Vhxims
Basketball
Member
That gif has nothing to do with Crackdown by the way. It was an older project. That project is on ice right now. I don't know if it will ever see the light of day. That said, the things I learned there are important for everything coming in the future.
One more thing is very important to me. I can communicate here - that's totally fine. Obviously I can not share any "new" things - but at least some backgrounds and insights. Communication is important to understand expectations and doubts of the targeted community in my opinion. Also - and I am just honest at that point - it motivates me personally to see excitement and getting direct input. However, I already notice comments twisting my words and/or interpreting too much into them. Let's just be fair to each other and we are cool!
Crackdown is an ambitious project. Personally, I want you to love that game. Because my own passion for the universe is huge.
Keep posting your ideas or wishes for the next installment. The people involved are reading them. Really.
Customization Customization Customization
I want to make my own character (race , gender , bodytype , movement style , voice , fighting style , hair etc) go really detailed and I will be there Day 1
custom vehicles and modification
Weapons - (dual-wield or single, sights , camos , silencers,) arsenal of weaponry
non-tradtional weapons - bows , swords , street objects
Radio - Go all out with the music
cheats pls
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
That gif has nothing to do with Crackdown by the way. It was an older project. That project is on ice right now. I don't know if it will ever see the light of day. That said, the things I learned there are important for everything coming in the future.
One more thing is very important to me. I can communicate here - that's totally fine. Obviously I can not share any "new" things - but at least some backgrounds and insights. Communication is important to understand expectations and doubts of the targeted community in my opinion. Also - and I am just honest at that point - it motivates me personally to see excitement and getting direct input. However, I already notice comments twisting my words and/or interpreting too much into them. Let's just be fair to each other and we are cool!
Crackdown is an ambitious project. Personally, I want you to love that game. Because my own passion for the universe is huge.
Keep posting your ideas or wishes for the next installment. The people involved are reading them. Really.
IDEA: One of my favorite games of all time...
+ One of my favorite games of all time...
= GOAT + all of my monies.
I obviously wouldn't want every aspect of the game in crackdown but with all this talk about destruction physics I thought of Hulk UD and was wandering if the team was drawing any inspiration from it?
Yeah, I think it's about time to be able to play as a lady agent. A lot of different options like Sunset Overdrive would be most welcome.
Kampfheld, please pass it along to make sure the game has the option to turn the music off. It may seem insignificant, but games like Halo and COD not allowing the music to be turned off drives me nuts.
While cool, the destruction in that vid isn't that impressive. It's a small section that's self contained. Crackdown's scale with vehicles, NPCs, AI routines, day/night cycles, will be much more taxing on the system. With large-scale destruction, I'm not sure how they'll handle orbs (if they come back). Maybe some areas/buildings can't be brought down completely, but only damaged?
While cool, the destruction in that vid isn't that impressive. It's a small section that's self contained. Crackdown's scale with vehicles, NPCs, AI routines, day/night cycles, will be much more taxing on the system. With large-scale destruction, I'm not sure how they'll handle orbs (if they come back). Maybe some areas/buildings can't be brought down completely, but only damaged?
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
= GOAT + all of my monies.
God damn, I love that game. I'd SMASH for a remake.
Miles Quaritch
Member
That's a fair point about the destruction in SC.
And I mean, a Crackdown without orbs and a lot platforming shouldn't even called Crackdown. If their intention is to move the series away from what made it such a beloved series with a vocal fanbase, then they just shouldn't bother. Call it something else and don't try to cash in the IP by trying to use it to demo some could tech.
I agree with you that Crackdown doesn't require any of that (hell, I don't think Crackdown really requires any of anything other than what it already had). That's not what I was discussing really. I'm simply saying that no matter what level of complexity you can have for physics calculations locally, you would be able to have more by having them calculated elsewhere. This applies to anything that isn't too sensitive to timings. You can take a Dreamcast and play Chess against Deep Blue this way.
Also two thoughts on that ScreamRide video:
1) The performance during some of those destructions is atrocious, and wouldn't be acceptable for anything where the player remains in real-time control during it.
2) That makes me wish the XB1 had a VR headset.
The Shogun
Banned
This game wasn't even on my radar but that gameplay looks like a blast. If it reviews decently I'm for sure picking this up now.
While I understand your concern, let's look at the other side of this medal. This is a general statement by the way. Destruction does not only mean you delete pre-defined pathes in your game world. You can also use destructible objects to create alternative or even completely new pathes. Do you agree?
As an example, look at the E3 teaser again. While obviously pre-rendered, maybe have a closer look at the gameplay elements shown there. If used correctly, environments can be used to create new ways or even paths to new areas you couldn't reach before. It is a teaser with exaggerated content, but the message for the game is shown right there. You can go in, having some fun and go BOOM! Or you can go in, remain having some fun, think about what you want to achieve - and then you go BOOM
Simple example. Imagine you see an orb - and with the existing environment there is no way you can reach that green little ball. So you have to begin to think about what you can do. Maybe the designer wants you to blow things up and find your own way here? In these kind of situations, the platforming aspect remains the same. We just went one step further in this very simple example. From here, you can transfer this example on much more complex gameplay situations - like in the teaser trailer, where you just made a BOOM for the truck that goes BOOM afterwards - resulting in an even bigger BOOM and a collapsing building.
Sometimes it's just fun to blow shit up. I think you agree on this
The challenge is to make the destructible environments also relevant to the gameplay.Jumping from rooftop to rooftop while always searching these orbs, being this overpowered human thing. This is, in short, the Crackdown experience for me. As I stated earlier, this is also why I expected more "platforming" answers. But maybe this answer was too obvious and too connected with the franchise already. However, it's about adding another layer to that concept. Giving you a much more dynamic experience.
Chobel
Member
Guys, I could need a little help over here
If you have to describe your Crackdown experience in one single word - what would that be?
Thanks in advance agents and have a great weekend!
Crazy (in a good way of course)
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
While I understand your concern, let's look at the other side of this medal. This is a general statement by the way. Destruction does not only mean you delete pre-defined pathes in your game world. You can also use destructible objects to create alternative or even completely new pathes. Do you agree?
As an example, look at the E3 teaser again. While obviously pre-rendered, maybe have a closer look at the gameplay elements shown there. If used correctly, enviromnents can be used to create new ways or even paths to new areas you couldn't reach before. It is a teaser with exaggerated content, but the message for the game is shown right there. You can go in, having some fun and go BOOM! Or you can go in, remain having some fun, think about what you want to achieve - and then you go BOOM
Simple example. Imagine you see an orb - and with the existing environment there is no way you can reach that green little ball. So you have to begin to think about what you can do. Maybe the designer wants you to blow things up and find your own way here? In these kind of situations, the platforming aspect remains the same. We just went one step further in this very simple example. From here, you can transfer this example on much more complex gameplay situations - like in the teaser trailer, where you just made a BOOM for the truck that goes BOOM afterwards - resulting in an even bigger BOOM and a collapsing building.
Sometimes it's just fun to blow shit up. I think you agree on this
Jumping from rooftop to rooftop while always searching these orbs, being this overpowered human thing. This is, in short, the Crackdown experience for me. As I stated earlier, this is also why I expected more "platforming" answers. But maybe this answer was to obvious and too connected with the franchise already. However, it's about adding another layer to that concept. Giving you a much more dynamic experience.
This is exactly what I was thinking after watching the trailer and it's nice to have confirmation. Can't flipping wait.
I know you can't confirm this but I'm also going to guess that there is some sort of reset feature where everything goes back to normal after you blow stuff up?
If so, I think it would be neat to have a cool quick little transition scene of the city reconstructing itself. Kinda like a sped up sim city or something. Even cooler would be the city slowly doing this on its own after you blow something up. Construction crews and scaffolding appearing over time. You could even make it so that if you just let it happen without doing a reset the buildings construction crews would fortify them so the buildings would come back stronger, look slightly different and open up new possibilities for platforming.
Well the framerate crawling to a halt on the local computer vs the cloud-connected one could also be a random fluke or any other explanation non-related to the handling of all these chunks, I guess? In the end this demo doesn't prove anything.
Similar threads
- Locked