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[-Pyromaniac-]

This company is borderline deranged to me with some of the stuff they do and say.

 

[legacyzero]

Typical Ubisoft. Buyers may not even be aware of this, and Ubi is making THEM suffer for it. The money is already spent, whether it was a legit key or not. How can all customers know that? This isn't a solution to the problem.

Sorry i don't plan to pay full price for games. If they want to stop this they need to price their games better.

How DARRRE companies put a price on something!

Why would i? With dlc etc it feels like you are paying for half a game any way why not pay half price on day 1 and if you like the game buy the dlc.

Well, if you don't like that practice, don't support it?

 

[Seanspeed]

Stuff like this makes me uncomfortable about an all digital future

We had the PC version of GTA:SA patched to remove content and features, and now we have things like this, where you can lose your games because of things outside of your control

I hope anyone who has lost games gets them back somehow

Buying games from questionable sites is not out of a person's control.

 

[Kurt Russell]

The funny thing is unintentionally that could lead to G2A being more legitimate.

G2A has a sellers rating meaning now those that bought illegitimate keys will possibly retroactively rate them badly causeing those selling legitimate keys go up on the list.

Personally my game bought on G2A is still there

I don't think it'll work that way. People will just get mad at Ubi, say stuff like "oh, popular twitch channels and popular youtubers endorse g2a, they can't be an illegitimate business" and keep attacking Ubi for something that isn't their fault.

 

[Nokterian]

Unless they are stolen, why wouldn't Ubisoft or whatever company get the money? Don't these game key resellers buy those games in bulk from Russian and Asian territories for cheap and sell them?

There stolen keys going out for a cheap price that is the grey market..it isn't a official retailer like Greenmangaming or gamergate.com or amazon.com for that matter. Read this from the makers of Natural Selection 2 they missed nearly 30.000 dollars in sales because of these websites.

http://unknownworlds.com/blog/beware-shady-key-resellers-and-discount-steam-keys/

That's why i see vouchers like from Nvidia doing it different these days because you need to login in to steam to redeem the steam key and it will be completed to your account when your done.

 

[Klyka]

I don't think it'll work that way. People will just get mad at Ubi, say stuff like "oh, popular twitch channels and popular youtubers endorse g2a, they can't be an illegitimate business" and keep attacking Ubi for something that isn't their fault.

Streamers and Youtubers are the chosen ones,they are always right and deserve to be above all of us. You know this to be true.

 

[erawsd]

Sure, but for example, perhaps they sold a key to amazon, which is then sold through G2A. They never sold that key to G2A, so do they deactivate it? This is the only issue for me, that they cannot assume every key is not legit, even though they created it. Maybe I bought that key from Amazon, decided I didn't want it, and then sold it through G2A. That key is legit, and they would have no right to remove it. They need to be bound by having to prove it before removal in my view.

I dont think these deactivations are being done on a retailer basis. I think Ubi has a system in place that tracks the purchase data of a given key. If the key is flagged for chargeback then they deactivate it. That would explain why some folks in this thread have not had their g2a key invalidated.

 

[MUnited83]

Keys original (official) reseller didn't receive payment for? (Chargeback, refund, etc.)

I was thinking of the NVIDIA promotion specifically. Someone reminded me that those dont give keys and are added to the account instead, so my inicial comment doesnt apply.

 

[Caffeine]

ye im just going to stick to greenmangaming and steam from now on.

 

[kamspy]

I remember when these debates came up years ago on GAF and people thought G2Play had come up with some kind of key generator. lol

Now their buying stolen keys?

Break this down Justice-GAF:

Let's say you've got a stolen CC. You determine the most lucrative thing you can do with that stolen CC is buy keys in bulk and sell them to G2Play.
-Where does one buy legitimate keys in bulk? Can you provide a link?

-Why does the master CC thief not find a more lucrative cash out for his stolen digits?

 

[Schreckstoff]

In that case 3rd party is gaining profit without approval from maker(in this case Ubisoft). There is probably law against that kind of behavior. If there is not why GMG, Amazon, Game and other official distributors would bother with signing contract with publishers?

There's ToS clauses against that, there's no law against reselling things you legally purchased including licenses. It's not illegal to break ToS.

In fact it's legally allowed to import digital goods w/o paying any taxes or toll into the EU.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

ye im just going to stick to greenmangaming and steam from now on.

And Deal Barrel.

Especially Deal Barrel.

*hides*

 

[Csr]

There is a German saying "Dummheit schützt vor Strafe nicht" meaning: Just because you didn't know something is illegal, doesn't mean you shouldn't/can't get punished for it.
If you buy a Picasso in alleway and it turns out the seller stole it doesn't mean you can keep it.

It is a case by case issue then, like your saying implies. I personally don't understand how you could justify punishing someone who had no way of knowing he was buying something that isn't legitimate. In your example anyone with a working brain would assume that the transaction is illegal.
About the cd keys though, there is no punishment, the developers are just disabling keys that for example they ultimately received no money for. The responsible party for people losing their keys are the scammers who sold them those keys.

 

[uncleniccius]

In that analogy, the boat owner would need to prove those parts were stolen from them before getting them returned, or the people that stole them would have to admit to selling them to each person they did. Either way, the boat owner has no right to stroll in, pick up those parts without saying anything and fuck off out the door. That would be theft from the people that paid for them.

By paying less than the price they are all but waiving their rights though. A difference in this situation is that unlike with a boat, it couldn't be second hand due to being digital. People who took advantage of this knew that it wasn't 100% legal (at best it was from another region) so it is still dodgy.

Not to defend G2A or whatever unofficial resellers, but do you have proof that the keys they are selling are stolen, in this case, FC4 keys? If they are not stolen, but bought for cheap from Russia and other Asian territories then Ubisoft should already got their money.

If that is the case then anyone who exploited it should be given an option to pay the difference.

If Ubi didn't act on this more people would take advantage of it, and that would mean their profits would take a hit.

 

[AzureRonin]

So instead of going after those resellers they are further frustrating their consumer base... I am not surprised how poorly this is being handled. They are obsessed with pushing their fan base away.

 

[Klyka]

I remember when these debates came up years ago on GAF and people thought G2Play had come up with some kind of key generator. lol

Now their buying stolen keys?

Break this down Justice-GAF:

Let's say you've got a stolen CC. You determine the most lucrative thing you can do with that stolen CC is buy keys in bulk and sell them to G2Play.
-Where does one buy legitimate keys in bulk? Can you provide a link?

-Why does the master CC thief not find a more lucrative cash out for his stolen digits?

This is about G2A and Kinguin btw, not G2play. The aforementioned two are "marketplaces" they sell keys from other resellers. G2play is a reseller, if you buy from them you literally buy the key from them. If you buy from say G2A, you might be buying from "fakecdkeysformoney.com" but you buy it THROUGH G2A.

 

[legacyzero]

ye im just going to stick to greenmangaming and steam from now on.

This. GMG is awesome.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I dont think these deactivations are being done on a retailer basis. I think Ubi has a system in place that tracks the purchase data of a given key. If the key is flagged for chargeback then they deactivate it. That would explain why some folks in this thread have not had their g2a key invalidated.

Considering how huge they are as a company this is quite likely.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

I get that people don't like Ubisoft right now (I certainly don't) but seriously, they have every right in the world to do this.



I guess you mean you disagree.
The few lessons in law I had tought me this: As a customer yuo have to be vigilant enough to notice obvious fraudulent signs. Classic example is buying things from a guy in an alleyway. If you buy that and the rightfull owner shows up you have to return the good without expecting any sort of payback.
Buying a brand new game for the fraction of the price should tip you off that something might not be right here. If your key gets revoked the only thing you can do is to contact the seller. Again: Don't get mad at Ubisoft, get mad at G2A.

I dislike Ubisoft. I don't buy their games anymore. But this still doesn't mean that what they are doing here isn't legal.


Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. What I meant was you buying the game right now from some keyseller instead of waiting for a sale from Ubisoft is why they do this.

well this isn't exactly like buying something in an alley tho. They have a website just like everyone else. I'd say a better analogy would be more like you walking into a real store and buying something for a really low price, then finding out it won't be supported cause the store you bought it from was not an authorized dealer.

 

[Remeard]

I guess you mean you disagree.
The few lessons in law I had tought me this: As a customer yuo have to be vigilant enough to notice obvious fraudulent signs. Classic example is buying things from a guy in an alleyway. If you buy that and the rightfull owner shows up you have to return the good without expecting any sort of payback.
Buying a brand new game for the fraction of the price should tip you off that something might not be right here. If your key gets revoked the only thing you can do is to contact the seller. Again: Don't get mad at Ubisoft, get mad at G2A..

The storefront looks extremely similar to many PC digital sale sights like Steam, Desura, etc. Low prices aren't uncommon in the PC gaming world, especially thanks to Humble Bundle and Steam Sales.

Ubi/Devolver/Publishers in general should put a better lock on their distribution if they don't want things like this to happen. It's not the customers fault and Ubi DEFINITELY shouldn't be able to do take away games lawfully purchased without refunding.

 

[pahamrick]

Posted in the steam thread that my copy of ACIV BF + Season Pass was banned. Was given the keys as a Christmas + Birthday present. Trying to get a hold of my friend who gave them to me to find out where he got the keys from.

Ugh, so much for finishing BF this morning.

 

[Shiggy]

Preventing free trade? Pretty sure this is violating European laws in some way.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

It is a case by case issue then, like your saying implies. I personally don't understand how you could justify punishing someone who had no way of knowing he was buying something that isn't legitimate. In your example anyone with a working brain would assume that the transaction is illegal.
About the cd keys though, there is no punishment, the developers are just disabling keys that for example they ultimately received no money for. The responsible party for people losing their keys are the scammers who sold them those keys.

Buying a 60$ game for 20$ or less on launch day should surley raise some eyebrows, don't you agree? Did you never wonder how they were able to sell those games so cheap? That thought alone should be enough to at the very least check their partners and see that Ubisoft isn't one of them.

Preventing free trade? Pretty sure this is violating European laws in some way.

Jesus H. Christ....
So if I steal your car should I just be allowed to sell it and you can do nothing against it?

The storefront looks extremely similar to many PC digital sale sights like Steam, Desura, etc. Low prices aren't uncommon in the PC gaming world, especially thanks to Humble Bundle and Steam Sales.

Not on the launchday of the game though.
Look, I agree it's not a great thing to do. There probably is a better way. But I understand why they do it and they simply have the right to do it.

 

[kamspy]

This is about G2A and Kinguin btw, not G2play. The aforementioned two are "marketplaces" they sell keys from other resellers. G2play is a reseller, if you buy from them you literally buy the key from them. If you buy from say G2A, you might be buying from "fakecdkeysformoney.com" but you buy it THROUGH G2A.

g2play was just an example. You can substitute it with any key selling site.

What I want to know is where is the proof these keys are stolen and not regionally cheaper. Because if it's regional pricing, than this mob needs to take their pitchforks to any European console gaming discussion where they buy games from countries with better exchange rates.

 

[gogogow]

If Ubi didn't act on this more people would take advantage of it, and that would mean their profits would take a hit.

Well, Ubisoft isn't exactly in the wrong, but removing games from people's account just like that, without warning, is going a bit far. Some people legitimately had no clue they were buying from unauthorized resellers. This will just push them to piracy. Imo Ubisoft should send this people with these keys a warning, if next time they redeem another game with such key, they will lose their game. And they should go after the resellers, not their fanbase/consumers.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

I get that people don't like Ubisoft right now (I certainly don't) but seriously, they have every right in the world to do this.



I guess you mean you disagree.
The few lessons in law I had tought me this: As a customer yuo have to be vigilant enough to notice obvious fraudulent signs. Classic example is buying things from a guy in an alleyway. If you buy that and the rightfull owner shows up you have to return the good without expecting any sort of payback.
Buying a brand new game for the fraction of the price should tip you off that something might not be right here. If your key gets revoked the only thing you can do is to contact the seller. Again: Don't get mad at Ubisoft, get mad at G2A.

I dislike Ubisoft. I don't buy their games anymore. But this still doesn't mean that what they are doing here isn't legal.


Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. What I meant was you buying the game right now from some keyseller instead of waiting for a sale from Ubisoft is why they do this.

Sorry thought you meant this is why they introduced DLC.

I have never had problems with keys i bought from G2A. Granted i haven't bought many games from them.

I didn't actually know in some cases they were illegal and blaming the consumer for buying games from a site that is very heavily advertised on twitch by big name streamers and sponsors tournament is not right. Look at Kinguin they are now sponsoring a Hearthstone charity tournament, I don't think people should blame anyone who bought these illegal keys.

 

[Schreckstoff]

Buying a 60$ game for 20$ or less on launch day should surley raise some eyebrows, don't you agree? Did you never wonder how they were able to sell those games so cheap? That thought alone should be enough to at the very least check their partners and see that Ubisoft isn't one of them.

Considering even steam makes preorder deals reducing price by ~25% up to 50% off shouldn't be all that unreasonable.

Considering my copy of HoMM6 wasn't taken away it seems like ubisoft blanket deactivated in fact just stolen keys which is perfectly legitimate.

 

[dex3108]

There's ToS clauses against that, there's no law against reselling things you legally purchased including licenses. It's not illegal to break ToS.

In fact it's legally allowed to import digital goods w/o paying any taxes or toll into the EU.

It should be legal if small amounts are in question. But if somebody buys 100 keys it is 100% sure that that person will distribute them. But again i am not familiar with laws that are/should regulate this so i can't comment about this issue.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Considering even steam makes preorder deals reducing price by ~25% up to 50% off shouldn't be all that unreasonable.

Considering my copy of HoMM6 wasn't taken away it seems like ubisoft blanket deactivated in fact just stolen keys which is perfectly legitimate.

For triple A releases?

 

[BibiMaghoo]

By paying less than the price they are all but waiving their rights though. A difference in this situation is that unlike with a boat, it couldn't be second hand due to being digital. People who took advantage of this knew that it wasn't 100% legal (at best it was from another region) so it is still dodgy.

That is not an assumption I agree with. There are many avenues, situations and reasons why something new could be being sold very cheap, without being at all sketchy or illegal. For the boat analogy, perhaps the parts were bulk bought? or bankrupt stock? or discarded items? I do not assume in any avenue that because something is cheaper than it usually is somewhere else, it must be illegal.

The final sentence in your post is just completely wrong. I have used G2A for Civ DLC. I had no knowledge it was not above board. It is a marketplace like Ebay, where you can also buy cheap keys, and I do not assume they are stolen either.

I dont think these deactivations are being done on a retailer basis. I think Ubi has a system in place that tracks the purchase data of a given key. If the key is flagged for chargeback then they deactivate it. That would explain why some folks in this thread have not had their g2a key invalidated.

I hope so, but the OP article suggests they are doing it on a retailer basis, rather than checking the key.

 

[Chariot]

Sorry thought you meant this is why they introduced DLC.

I have never had problems with keys i bought from G2A. Granted i haven't bought many games from them.

I didn't actually know in some cases they were illegal and blaming the consumer for buying games from a site that is very heavily advertised on twitch by big name streamers and sponsors tournament is not right. Look at Kinguin they are now sponsoring a Hearthstone charity tournament, I don't think people should blame anyone who bought these illegal keys.

Please. Explain to me what a Hearthstone tournament has t odo with Ubisoft? It's not their fault that people were mislead. It's the fault of these sites and all these internet personalities who got paid by them. At what point is it Ubisofts fault that people were mislead?

 

[legacyzero]

Considering even steam makes preorder deals reducing price by ~25% up to 50% off shouldn't be all that unreasonable.

Considering my copy of HoMM6 wasn't taken away it seems like ubisoft blanket deactivated in fact just stolen keys which is perfectly legitimate.

Really, how often does that happen? At the most, especially for bigger titles, they might save you 5 bucks.

 

[kamspy]

What authorized seller is selling these CC thief bulk keys?

Where do these keys originate?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What authorized seller is selling these CC thief bulk keys?

Where do these keys originate?

Russia or China, I think.

 

[Schreckstoff]

For triple A releases?

Not the likes of CoD but I've seen a couple AAA releases being reduced as a preorder for a limited amount of time. Usually in the €45 region instead of €60

It should be legal if small amounts are in question. But if somebody buys 100 keys it is 100% sure that that person will distribute them. But again i am not familiar with laws that are/should regulate this so i can't comment about this issue.

That's debatable, for instance in my country they abolished the whole "intention of selling" if you're possessing drugs in a quantity exceeding believable personal consumption. Or in other words, you could be that excentric.

 

[erawsd]

Ubi/Devolver/Publishers in general should put a better lock on their distribution if they don't want things like this to happen. It's not the customers fault and Ubi DEFINITELY shouldn't be able to do take away games lawfully purchased without refunding.

The only way to crackdown on it from their end would be to no longer distribute 3rd party keys and force all software purchases to go through their digital storefront... Im sure that would go over well.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I didn't actually know in some cases they were illegal and blaming the consumer for buying games from a site that is very heavily advertised on twitch by big name streamers and sponsors tournament is not right. Look at Kinguin they are now sponsoring a Hearthstone charity tournament, I don't think people should blame anyone who bought these illegal keys.

I'm not "blaming" them but I also can't really blame Ubisoft. Yes it IS a shitty thing to do. But what are they supposed to do in your opinion to prevent people from buying from those stores? Sending them an email nobody reads? It's not like people are just now discovering that G2A sells those keys.
If you want to blame somebody, blame G2A. They literally are the ones responsible for selling you an illegal key.

Considering even steam makes preorder deals reducing price by ~25% up to 50% off shouldn't be all that unreasonable.

Oh come on. Show me a 60$ game that had a 50% pre-order discount...

well this isn't exactly like buying something in an alley tho. They have a website just like everyone else. I'd say a better analogy would be more like you walking into a real store and buying something for a really low price, then finding out it won't be supported cause the store you bought it from was not an authorized dealer.

So what would you do in this situation? I know what I would do, walk into the store I bought it from and demand a refund. And again, buying something for 20€ when the regular price is 60€ should at least raise an eyebrow.

 

[Csr]

Buying a 60$ game for 20$ or less on launch day should surley raise some eyebrows, don't you agree? Did you never wonder how they were able to sell those games so cheap? That thought alone should be enough to at the very least check their partners and see that Ubisoft isn't one of them.

I agree, that is why i said every case is different. Though there are many situations where something is very cheap and not illegal for various reasons like promotions, sales, keys that came with gpus etc

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Please. Explain to me what a Hearthstone tournament has t odo with Ubisoft? It's not their fault that people were mislead. It's the fault of these sites and all these internet personalities who got paid by them. At what point is it Ubisofts fault that people were mislead?

Ubisoft is laying the blame at the consumer while its the reseller that's the culprit, go after them.

 

[kamspy]

Russia or China, I think.

Is it:

1. Regional pricing exploit
2. stolen keys
3. keys purchased in bulk with a stolen CC

 

[MUnited83]

What authorized seller is selling these CC thief bulk keys?

Where do these keys originate?

Any seller that allows for multiple purchases i'm assuming.

 

[dex3108]

What authorized seller is selling these CC thief bulk keys?

Where do these keys originate?

Authorised resellers will get they keys directly from publisher. Unauthorized resellers can get their keys from review copies, orders that were chargeback, stolen copies or games that are bought for cheap in other regions.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Please. Explain to me what a Hearthstone tournament has t odo with Ubisoft? It's not their fault that people were mislead. It's the fault of these sites and all these internet personalities who got paid by them. At what point is it Ubisofts fault that people were mislead?

Was about to say this.

Not the likes of CoD but I've seen a couple AAA releases being reduced as a preorder for a limited amount of time. Usually in the €45 region instead of €60

I don't use steam often so I wouldn't know, still never heard of a 50% pre-order deal for a huge fall release though.

 

[benny_a]

What authorized seller is selling these CC thief bulk keys?

Where do these keys originate?

Why do they have to be in bulk? Legitimate stores that sell keys allow you to order more than one thing.

 

[Remeard]

Not on the launchday of the game though.
Look, I agree it's not a great thing to do. There probably is a better way. But I understand why they do it and they simply have the right to do it.

On launch day I can typically get $20 off new releases at Best Buy/Kmart. There's been times where it's $30. I remember people getting pissed off at Valve for putting Left 4 Dead 2 half price a week after launch.

As a consumer and seeings those things, I wouldn't be shocked to see a game for $20-$30 near launch date on PC.

Maybe I should question if Humble Bundle is an authorized retailer because I can buy 5 games for $1?

 

[Bogey]

If it violates their terms and services, then they should remove them. They have every right to do so.

That depends on your local jurisdiction of course. In most countries I know, that is just and plain wrong.

In my country, it is assumed customers can't be assumed to read some 50+ page contracts for a simple 50$ videogame (or pretty much any other product in that price range) they buy. So if you're hiding some paragraph like "the user has to play without wearing pants, otherwise we'll ban their account" on page 47, legally it's pretty much completely void.
Adding to that, when do you usually get to see those terms and services? After you purchase the product and try to start it for the first time. Not much of a surprise a contract that tries to restrict your usage and is only made known to you after you already bought the product is legally.. questionable, to put it nicely.

So bottom line, the vast majority of supposedly strict rules defined in ToS are completely meaningless from a legal point of view in many (most?) countries. If Ubisoft bans accounts not because the product was stolen, but rather because it was (legally) obtained in another country, I don't think they'll stand a very good chance of winning a lawsuit about this.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I agree, that is why i said every case is different. Though there are many situations where something is very cheap and not illegal for various reasons like promotions, sales, keys that came with gpus etc

Yep.
Also I've been defending Ubisoft for at least 10 minutes now. I need a shower. I feel so dirty...

Maybe I should question if Humble Bundle is an authorized retailer because I can buy 5 games for $1?

Yes, maybe you should question that. It's better then just asuming everything is legal all the time.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

I can't help but think Ubisoft are going about this the wrong way. It would be far better in the short and long term for Ubisoft and co to go after the resellers. It is obvious these resellers are illegal and breaking the law so might I suggest Ubisoft goes after THEM. Oh wait that would probably be too much like hardwork and it is far easier to just disable keys willy nilly and hey some saps will just go and buy the game again which means more money for them.

At any rate it doesn't affect me. I don't buy from resellers simply on the basis "it looks too good to be true" and I definitely don't buy Ubisoft shit, my life as a PC gamer is so much simpler now I don't deal with Ubisoft in any way.

 

[Zafir]

What authorized seller is selling these CC thief bulk keys?

Where do these keys originate?

If they were authorised they wouldn't be selling stolen keys.

G2A and Kinguin are marketplaces, basically an ebay specifically made for key selling. Some sellers on them may be selling cheap copies from regions like Russia, India, South America and so on where the prices are cheaper. Other sellers may have stolen them, by buying a bunch of keys and charging back.

None of them are authorised by Valve.

 

[Nokterian]

Please. Explain to me what a Hearthstone tournament has t odo with Ubisoft? It's not their fault that people were mislead. It's the fault of these sites and all these internet personalities who got paid by them. At what point is it Ubisofts fault that people were mislead?

Exactly only buy from a website like GMG they do enough of promotions like 25% off voucher on a new game or 20%. Seeing how Levelcap is promoting this is just awkward to see and he didn't even explore why there not a official website retailer.