Support NeoGAF

[Rest]

The Boondocks, Martin, Good Times, Moesha, Bernie Mac Show, and Everybody Hates Chris I think are great examples of black culture.

Martin and The Boondocks I'll agree to, Moesha I don't really remember and the rest I haven't seen. But even with Boondocks and Martin, I don't think they'd really educate anyone on what black culture is. If you know the cues you'll see them and laugh in the right context, but if you don't know what sets black culture apart from other American cultures, the jokes are still broad enough and the characters still simple enough that anyone else could grasp them from experiences in their own culture and appreciate them through their own cultural filter.

I'm sure that posters who said they don't understand what white culture is have seen an episode or two of at least one of those shows, and they still probably wouldn't understand the context or see the difference, and that's what I mean by black culture not being represented on TV. Most people I think could drop into white culture, and do. Could white people do the opposite? Could most people blend in with Asian or Latino subcultures if they didn't grow up around them?

 

[besada]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

 

[ghst]

i regret the tone of my last post after realising frylock and dr. quinn are two of my favourite black people.

 

[BPoole]

Are white people joking about white people racist?

Idk, is that user white? I recall the Mortal Kombat tcrew on here being non white. I could be wrong.

Even still, it's a fucked up thing to say and it's annoying how much it's tolerated in here considering how trigger happy the mods are when the target is not a white person

 

[TalonJH]

Wait...what? That's impossible.

You're over thinking it. I'm black and I probably like the same things you do. The differences we might have from each other aren't really that different than the differences you would have with other white people.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

awesome post, thank you.

 

[injurai]

Idk, is that user white? I recall the Mortal Kimball crew on here being non white. I could be wrong.

Even still, it's a fucked up thing to say and it's annoying how much it's tolerated in here considering how trigger happy the mods are when the target is not a white person

Maybe he will tell you if he was joking or not. But why not just engage with those who are actually engaging in discussions and learning from them. It's hardly like you are being oppressed in here.

 

[BPoole]

Maybe he will tell you if he was joking or not. But why not just engage with those who are actually engaging in discussions and learning from them. It's hardly like you are being oppressed in here.

I don't care if he was joking or not. He shouldn't say it.

I'm white, can I go shit up a thread with racists remarks about black people and then say "Lulz JK guys?" No, because I would banned within 5 minutes.

 

[Bgamer90]

Martin and The Boondocks I'll agree to, Moesha I don't really remember and the rest I haven't seen. But even with Boondocks and Martin, I don't think they'd really educate anyone on what black culture is. If you know the cues you'll see them and laugh in the right context, but if you don't know what sets black culture apart from other American cultures, the jokes are still broad enough and the characters still simple enough that anyone else could grasp them from experiences in their own culture and appreciate them through their own cultural filter.

But is that really a problem though?

I mean, Black people are... You know, people (haha). It's not like our lives are completely different to the point in which people who aren't Black should feel like they are watching a sci-fi program (lol).

Friend and/or love issues, issues at a job or school, situations that happen due to confusion or a misunderstanding, (etc.) are things that everyone go through regardless of race.

__________________

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

Great post.

 

[Rembrandt]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

Fantastic post.

I don't care if he was joking or not. He shouldn't say it.

I'm white, can I go shit up a thread with racists remarks about black people and then say "Lulz JK guys?" No, because I would banned within 5 minutes.

lol, shut up.

 

[Rest]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

I don't think you're giving enough consideration to the ethnic segregation that exists in America. Our fundamental culture is that of the white majority, and within that there are many subcultures, including those based on race. "White culture" refers to the American super culture established by the white majority. Even as that majority erodes in terms of numbers, white people still have the most money and power, and therefore still have the greatest influence on culture. The mainstream culture of America doesn't represent, or even resemble, some of its subcultures, especially those that exist because people become socially segregated by race and language.

Adoption of subcultures isn't really an issue, but it shouldn't be assumed that adoption is the same as absorption. There are subcultures that will long persist because they're quite different from mainstream American culture.

But is that really a problem though?

I mean, Black people are... You know, people (haha). It's not like our lives are completely different to the point in which people who aren't Black should feel like they are watching a sci-fi program (lol).

Friends and/or love issues, issues at a job or school, a situation that happen due to confusion or misunderstanding, etc. are things that everyone go through regardless of race.

No, it's not a problem at all. It is, I think, a sign of good entertainment that many people will be able to watch and appreciate something.

 

[Mr.Swag]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

Didnt know that about stand up. Makes sense.

Also, do yall know about Cuba?

Country has a huge black population, but they are treated just like other cubans.
Ive seen poeple get shocked when they see a black guy talking spanish, but chances are he probably doesnt even know english.

 

[injurai]

I don't care if he was joking or not. He shouldn't say it.

I'm white, can I go shit up a thread with racists remarks about black people and then say "Lulz JK guys?" No, because I would banned within 5 minutes.

If your comment was understood to be satire and it served to illuminate a point, I'm pretty sure you could make and not be banned. Just don't be shit at satire.

 

[BPoole]

Fantastic post.



lol, shut up.

You know I'm right.

Also, don't tell me to shut up

*Cue numerous quotes of people telling me to shut up*

 

[BPoole]

If your comment was understood to be satire and it served to illuminate a point, I'm pretty sure you could make and not be banned. Just don't be shit at satire.

I'm smart enough to not even risk it being taken the wrong way

And what point is sub Zero trying to make by saying doing Meth is a core part of white culture? I'm not seeing the satire.

 

[gutter_trash]

Didnt know that about stand up. Makes sense.

Also, do yall know about Cuba?

Country has a huge black population, but they are treated just like other cubans.
Ive seen poeple get shocked when they see a black guy talking spanish, but chances are he probably doesnt even know english.

race relations have improved in Cuba post-Castro over the decades. something something everyone being equal under commie-ism.

Same cannot be said for Blacks in Colombia, racism is higher there

 

[Rest]

I guess I haven't addressed the OP:

I have no thoughts on white culture, as its the fundamental culture of the country I live in. The people you describe you avoid content created by and for white people are what are referred to as racists, and while there are a shamefully large number of them in the black community, there are also a shamefully large number in the white community. I don't think you should let people like that influence your view of what black people want to, choose to, and do consume.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

fair enough. well said.

 

[-COOLIO-]

White people don't have culture... Unless you mean their appropriation of dilution of others'

ugh.

 

[injurai]

I'm smart enough to not even risk it being taken the wrong way

And what point is sub Zero trying to make by saying doing Meth is a core part of white culture? I'm not seeing the satire.

I honestly took it as satire. Being entirely honest meth is a drug I see more often associated with poor white rural communities. People stereotype blacks by representing them by the lowest common denominator. Doing the same and pretending like the lowest common denominator of white communities some how embodies white culture. It's obviously absurd. It exemplifies double standards when it comes to making stereotypes. It's so absurd that I can only see it satire.

 

[BPoole]

I honestly took it as satire. Being entirely honest meth is a drug I see more often associated with poor white rural communities. People stereotype blacks by representing them by the lowest common denominator. Doing the same and pretending like the lowest common denominator of white communities some how embodies white culture. It's obviously absurd. It exemplifies double standards when it comes to making stereotypes. It's so absurd that I can only see it satire.

And what about the crocs and people watching? If he had just said meth, then I could understand your reasoning. But, the other two are stereotypes that can be applied to any socioeconomic class of white people.

This is an appropriate use of satire in a thread like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=149147324

 

[injurai]

And what about the crocs and people watching? If he had just said meth, then I could understand your reasoning. But, the other two are stereotypes that can be applied to any socioeconomic class of white people.

This is an appropriate use of satire in a thread like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=149147324

I'm not here to be an apologist, but your complaints are really only substantiated when you project intention. Your only empowering what you take criticism in. I don't really care if we disagree on satire, but the discussion of it should end here. It's not a line of dialogue that I'll empower and put a platform to above the other good discussion in here. Best to just move on and fight were the good fight is, not muck it up.

 

[Valhelm]

Seems harder to define since it's more or less the "default" of American pop culture. It takes something extraordinary to really make people think "wow, this is so white". Like... that's the feeling I got when I was exposed to Vampire Weekend.

Huh, I'm actually super surprised. I'd describe Vampire Weekend as one of the least white indie bands, because of the huge African influence and because one of the members is brown-ish.

I guess that says a lot about indie rock.

 

[RBK]

So basically the more "urban" oriented shows are better in terms of Black culture? Don't think that I really agree... Many of the shows you mentioned had pretty much the same (pretty cliche) episode story lines that shows like Family Matters, Smart Guy, & Fresh Prince had. The only difference was pretty much the fact that those shows had more of a "hip-hop/urban" presentation or tone.

I wouldn't consider some of the shows I listed as "urban", just as they do a better job at depicting the black culture than a Family Matters, Fresh Prince, or even the Cosby Show does.

Not that I don't like those shows, but they just seem less relatable to stuff I know. I feel you can get the same or close to the same result if you replace the characters with white actors and actresses.

 

[Valhelm]

I wasn't saying that being white was my goal lol
Just curious as to when it happens

Whiteness is 100% a cultural construct, much more so than the Black identity. While being Black is closely tied to having African heritage, being white just means having light skin and calling yourself white. In the United States, there are people of Polish, Kazakh, Lebanese, Italian, Irish, Moroccan, Mexican, and Iranian descent who identify as white, even though their cultures don't have much in common. What they share in common is light-ish skin, round eyes, and a white identity.

If you identify as white and are viewed by strangers as white, then you're white. I think that the rules for passing are also constantly becoming looser. A century ago Italians were universally considered non-white. Fifty years ago the same could be said about Cubans.

 

[Mr.Swag]

EDIT: Don't read this if you're expecting good writing. Just some of my thoughts that went on longer than I wanted.

Freedom of speech is my favorite amendment, so i hope this thread stay open.

I have lived in the least American city my whole life. that city being Miami, FL of course.
To live in Miami is to live in Latin America but with American taxes. I grew up in the miami neighborhooods called Sweetwater and Hialeah, extensions of Nicaragua and Cuba respectively.

I did not learn English until I was in second grade.
I still speak Spanish with my family.
There are more spanish radio stations than english
The custom down here is to stay at home with mama y papa until you get married.
Very, very little people actually go live off to a dorm for university. Only three girls i know have done it and that's because they got great scholarships and worked hard for it.

My whole life the "White Man" has been a source of envy and fear.
What I saw in the movies made me envious my whole life. Little Mr. Johnny Perfectlife, with his lawyer father and CEO mother. He goes away to college in some other city and his parents come visit him. The entire college is white. He hangs around with beautiful people all day, and does rich kid things. One day he graduates and gets a great job.

He walks into a large skyscraper in NYC where everybody is a six foot tall white man. He does business things with white men. Later on in the movie they show a black man panhandling on the street and Johnny Perfectlife's girlfriend helps him out with some cash. Later on Johnny and his girlfriend are walking home when they get mugged by cholos. Cuban and Puerto Rican actors portraying stereotypical thugs.

These horrible Hispanics rob Mr.Perfectlife and rape his girlfriend.
Everything gets fixed for him by the end of the film.

Now, as a kid growing up with a very defined feeling of being "Hispanic" it was always tough watching movies and not seeing my people get proper representation. The only place to get this was by watching spanish language soap operas, which are melodramatic crap. Why is the only hispanic guy on the simpsons a lame bumblebee? Where are the latinos in these pixar movies?
Miami is sort of a safe haven for the Hispanic minority so racism isn't really prevalent until of course you start getting near to orlando. The family jacksonville trip was an eye opening one, about 12 years ago, the racism there was disgusting and scary.

I did not feel this at all anywhere else but until i went to NYC. My cab driver was from the middle east, my waitress was definitely Hispanic, the hotel owners where white though, some cashiers were black, and i saw a lot of Asian people (a rarity in some Miami parts).
Then I went to a Broadway show.
HOLY SHIT, i have never felt so out of place in my life. I felt like i was in Johnny Perfectlifes's Hollywood movie. Everyone, and i mean EVERYONE in the audience was white.
Then I started to notice that all the men in suits where white, and all the men in uniforms were mixed. Sure many white people had service job as well, but the opposite was not true.

The thing is, and I am sort of embarrassed of saying it, but the way i was brought up has led me to be intimidated by white people.
My whole life i have felt "safe" in my odd city, but once I've left my city i have felt different. I never really noticed i was a minority until I left Miami. And, i think that's something that any immigrant can understand.

There's a reason there are Chinatowns, Koreatowns, Little Havanas, etc.

The thing i empathize with black people is that, while they're not really recent immigrant they were once, but not through choice, and they didn't pick their safe havens, their safe havens where picked for them by the white people. And, I think thats what white culture is. Safety. A white person should feel "at home" anywhere in America, because they are the majority still.

I am rambling but these are some for thoughts.
I fear becoming a finance major because Wall Street feels like such a white place.
I have only had one white friend my whole life. She was really awesome.

 

[Valhelm]

If white culture is really a thing then death / heavy metal (or similar) must be part of it. I've never seen some non white people listen to this kind of music.

But not many white people listen to that kind of music either.

 

[Cloudy]

Between music, movies, TV, etc the overall impression I have is that African Americans feel that they are better off sticking with entertainment, media, etc made by other African Americans.

What gives you this impression? Just because people like to see themselves represented in media/culture doesn't mean that they avoid other stuff...

 

[Rest]

What gives you this impression? Just because people like to see themselves represented in media/culture doesn't mean that they avoid other stuff...

There are plenty of black people that don't consume cultural products that they perceive as being "white" or "too white." They're not a majority, but there are enough of them, and they're vocal enough, that if you haven't been around a lot of black people you might think that their outlook is more common than it really is, or even that it's the norm.

 

[Wiktor]

Isn't default culture for USA bassicaly a white culture?

 

[The Beard]

Freedom of speech is my favorite amendment, so i hope this thread stay open.

The First Amendment has nothing to do with being able to say whatever you want on a privately owned forum. If you say something offensive or hateful, and the mods see it, you'll get Banned. If a thread gets out of hand it'll get closed.

If you and a group of like-minded people get together on public property to speak out against the government, you won't get thrown in a concentration camp. That's the First Amendment.

 

[Rest]

Isn't default culture for USA bassicaly a white culture?

Yes.

If white culture is really a thing then death / heavy metal (or similar) must be part of it. I've never seen some non white people listen to this kind of music.

White culture is a term used to refer to mainstream American culture in a discussion that specifically points out subcultures that exist because of race of their constituents. Metal culture is a subculture of American culture, but it's no more white that Latino or black culture. It's members are predominantly white, but if it were to be lumped into an ethnic culture then you could just as easily call it a part of black culture, because Metal is a subgenre of Rock, which comes from black people, or British culture, because Metal originated in England.

But truthfully, it is its own subculture, and it's based around music, not race.

 

[Mr.Swag]

The First Amendment has nothing to do with being able to say whatever you want on a privately owned forum. If you say something offensive or hateful, and the mods see it, you'll get Banned. If a thread gets out of hand it'll get closed.

If you and a group of like-minded people get together on public property to speak out against the government, you won't get thrown in a concentration camp. That's the First Amendment.

OK
Not really what i meant.
What did you think of the rest of the post, or was that all you read?

 

[TalonJH]

No, I don't think they did, at least not in any of the shows from before the 00's. I've never been around a black person and thought "they match an archetype that a sitcom has tried to meaningfully portray" or "this person's personality as influenced by culture is shown in character in a TV show I've seen."

Racism and social issues are also not things that I think of as integral to black culture. They influence it, but only because black people here live among other subcultures and white superculture.

I honestly identified with Family Matters as a child. Hell, my parents and I would sit together and watch it every time it was on. My family was like their family.

 

[sir_kevith]

I'm smart enough to not even risk it being taken the wrong way

And what point is sub Zero trying to make by saying doing Meth is a core part of white culture? I'm not seeing the satire.

That is the satire.

 

[Rest]

I honestly identified with Family Matters as a child. Hell, my parents and I would sit together and watch it every time it was on. My family was like their family.

My opinions are based only on my own experiences.

Having said that though, I grew up withing both white and black cultures, and I would say that everything on TV more closely resembled white culture when I was growing up, at least from my perspective.

 

[Vicetrailia]

There are plenty of black people that don't consume cultural products that they perceive as being "white" or "too white." They're not a majority, but there are enough of them, and they're vocal enough, that if you haven't been around a lot of black people you might think that their outlook is more common than it really is, or even that it's the norm.

Ugh, yeah sure. Super niche they must be.

 

[Rest]

Ugh, yeah sure. Super niche they must be.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your post.

 

[Sch1sm]

Do you avoid books written by white people? Only vote for black politicians?

What about video games? Movies? Restaurants? etc?

These are all no's for me. I vote based on platform. Who's going to make where I live a better place. I've never paid mind to races in video games. I watch a film a month in theatres; there isn't a blank film released every month so am obvious no. I also love food too much to restrict myself.


It's pretty impossible for us to avoid "white culture," and while there are some people who try I don't know how they go outside. In my house there was definitely an amplification of more black media, if only because it was amusing. The Cosby Show, Good Times, Sister Sister/Smart Guy, Dif'rent Strokes, Wayans World, Jamie Foxx Show, Good Times, The Steve Harvey Show, Meet The Paynes, The Browns, etc. The list goes on still. The fact BET exists makes it easy to keep to music and awards of our culture, too, I guess, but I'm positive plenty stick to YouTube instead of hearing Chris Brown perform at the Soul Train Awards or something.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your post.

I feel like he was being sarcastic.

 

[Rest]

I feel like he was being sarcastic.

Even in the case of sarcasm I still don't know exactly what he was saying. I literally didn't understand his post.

 

[The Beard]

OK
Not really what i meant.
What did you think of the rest of the post, or was that all you read?

As a white male who lives in California, your fear of white people is odd to me. My mother had me when she was 17, my parents got divorced a year after that. My mom was a single mother without a high school diploma. My dad was a drug addict throughout my whole childhood and young adult life. My mom worked shit jobs to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. The schools I went to, Elementary through High School, were at least half Hispanic.

I have nothing in common with Mr. Perfect-life. I can't relate at all to that guy. I also can't relate to the "oppressive white man" stereotype that gets thrown around a lot here on GAF. People are so quick to lump white people together as this evil and privileged group who wipe their ass with hundred dollar bills and drink minority tear latte's.

I worked minimum wage jobs for years until I found my current job that pays well. My coworkers are very diverse and we all make the same amount of money. Management is even more diverse.

You should consider moving to California some day.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

White people have a culture?

There's a little thing called Europe.

 

[royalan]

As a white male who lives in California, your fear of white people is odd to me. My mother had me when she was 17, my parents got divorced a year after that. My mom was a single mother without a high school diploma. My dad was a drug addict throughout my whole childhood and young adult life. My mom worked shit jobs to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. The schools I went to, Elementary through High School, were at least half Hispanic.

I have nothing in common with Mr. Perfect-life. I can't relate at all to that guy. I also can't relate to the "oppressive white man" stereotype that gets thrown around a lot here on GAF. People are so quick to lump white people together as this evil and privileged group who wipe their ass with hundred dollar bills and drink minority tear latte's.

I worked minimum wage jobs for years until I found my current job that pays well. My coworkers are very diverse and we all make the same amount of money. Management is even more diverse.

You should consider moving to California some day.

Nobody in this thread has done this.

 

[Rest]

There's a little thing called Europe.

That's multiple cultures. America has its own culture.

 

[...Scatter...]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

Slow clap - This guy gets it!

 

[Stereogatari]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

Your post is on point, but there's a curious phenomenon I'd like to bring up. There are some Black British people who see the Black American culture as being "their" cultural identity. Even stranger I've seen Somalians here in the UK watching Black Entertainment Network which is full of Black American TV shows. Somalians traditionally identify more with their ethnic identity than any concept of blackness (and are quite distinct in looks), so it was strange to see. And it gets even weirder than that because there are many Asians (Indian/Pakistani) here in the UK that identify with Black American pop culture.

Whiteness is 100% a cultural construct, much more so than the Black identity. While being Black is closely tied to having African heritage, being white just means having light skin and calling yourself white. In the United States, there are people of Polish, Kazakh, Lebanese, Italian, Irish, Moroccan, Mexican, and Iranian descent who identify as white, even though their cultures don't have much in common. What they share in common is light-ish skin, round eyes, and a white identity.

If you identify as white and are viewed by strangers as white, then you're white. I think that the rules for passing are also constantly becoming looser. A century ago Italians were universally considered non-white. Fifty years ago the same could be said about Cubans.

Very good post. Even today I doubt all Italians are considered White due to the diversity among them, same with my people the Turks who can vary from pale blue eyed blondes to light brown skinned types and best example are Greeks whose Ancient ancestors are often portrayed as looking like Germanic Europeans, but in real life today many modern Greeks wouldn't fit the typical White look.

There's a little thing called Europe.

I wouldn't call European culture "White culture". It's just each European ethnic groups individual culture, with some vague unifying aspects thanks to the intellectual movements of the 1600s-1800s. White culture as talked about in this thread is a reference to White American culture which is its own unique thing.

 

[Chuckie]

Maybe this is where the line is drawn. I Googled (just for shits and giggles) and came across this comment:

I almost threw up reading that. lol

That is actually the default in the Netherlands.

Although I do think our mayo tastes different than American mayo.

 

[Log4Girlz]

That is actually the default in the Netherlands.

Although I do think our mayo tastes different than American mayo.

That's a picture of mayonnaise with fries. America doesn't have mayo. No seriously, they don't sell actual mayonnaise. Its shit bleached white is what it is.

 

[User 73706]

Guys, no matter how many people post "oh so racism against white culture is tolerated but i can't be racist against black people? double standards much" in this thread, there isn't going to be some radical change that magically makes it okay. You can't just hope you get a majority vote out of the woodwork and suddenly it'll be acknowledged as being "fair."

I'm smart enough to not even risk it being taken the wrong way

And what point is sub Zero trying to make by saying doing Meth is a core part of white culture? I'm not seeing the satire.

I honestly took it as satire. Being entirely honest meth is a drug I see more often associated with poor white rural communities. People stereotype blacks by representing them by the lowest common denominator. Doing the same and pretending like the lowest common denominator of white communities some how embodies white culture. It's obviously absurd. It exemplifies double standards when it comes to making stereotypes. It's so absurd that I can only see it satire.

And what about the crocs and people watching? If he had just said meth, then I could understand your reasoning. But, the other two are stereotypes that can be applied to any socioeconomic class of white people.

This is an appropriate use of satire in a thread like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=149147324

I'm not here to be an apologist, but your complaints are really only substantiated when you project intention. Your only empowering what you take criticism in. I don't really care if we disagree on satire, but the discussion of it should end here. It's not a line of dialogue that I'll empower and put a platform to above the other good discussion in here. Best to just move on and fight were the good fight is, not muck it up.

I don't know how this actually turned into a discussion, and I appreciate injurai's understanding here because there really isn't some vehement, fervent cultural agenda I'm trying to push here. It's just surface-level jokes because, y'know, it's an internet forum. Like he said, it's very plainly satire. The reasoning's sound as well - meth is very commonly associated as being used in lower-class rural white communities, and cases of a lower-class black majority using the drug are negligible at best. It's just equating a similar economic class of white people in the way some dumbasses complain "well if they stopped 'chilling' and smoking pot all day, maybe they could find a job!" with the underprivileged black community. Crocs and people-watching are thrown in there because they're relatively harmless "stereotypes" that likewise see next to no traction in black communities. I mean yeah, people might be offended with the aesthetic of crocs, but you can't in your right mind say that tacky-looking shoes are somehow oppressing cultures in lower economic standing.

The entire damn point of the back-and-forth I have with race-related threads on GAF is satire designed to weed out people who don't have enough common sense, empathy or perspective - or some combination of the three - to take this stuff at face value. It's like how the Boondocks has plenty of moments that white people not in the loop will laugh about only to completely miss the point of the actual satirical undertones. It's really not that difficult to figure out.

Me making a joke about meth isn't going to magically bring down the white upper-class, jesus.

 

[Ovid]

Culture, reasonably understood, isn't tied to skin color generally. American blacks are an exception, which I'll get to in a second. Culture is generally understood to be a product of shared morals/virtues/aesthetics/etc that happen in geographical proximity. Culture is tied to where we are, not what color we are, generally. Black british citizens are culturally british. White Brazilians are culturally Brazillian, as are brown Brazillians, and black Brazillians.

So it's not white culture, but rather European, or American culture.

Now to my earlier exception. American blacks are an exception because they were lifted, en masse, from their homes and transplanted into America, where their native cultures were systematically squashed. People without traditions and cultures invent them, and borrow from others nearby. Americans themselves are mostly transplanted, and in some case jettisoned their native cultures for political or social reasons and attempted to start over. So we wound up with a bunch of Europeans who had rejected their native culture, trying to impress a new culture on a bunch of black people from different locations, while simultaneously forcing them to jettison THEIR culture.

So black slaves melded multiple African cultures and the variety of European cultures in ad hoc ways to create anew culture and identity, because they weren't given any other choice. Since the number of historical slave transplants of this magnitude are fairly small, the birth of this new culture was unusual, both in its speed of spread and its creativity. With traditions stripped away, artistic black people had a clear field in which to create anew, and they did.

And since culture is proximity driven, that new culture became part of mainstream American culture, too. Slave owners forced Christianity on black slaves, who responded by creating gospels, which were picked up by European descended Americans and fed right back into the burgeoning American culture. They gave recently freed but still uneducated black musicians European notation and symphonic instruments, and in return blacks created Jazz, which Was absorbed into American culture.

And it's not just blacks in America, but virtually all of the immigrants. Jews gave us comic books, movies, and vaudeville, which led to stand-up comedy, another American art form. Virtually all the American art forms came from the melding of our immigrant and/or slave cultures.

So, my answer to the OP is that you've misunderstood the nature of culture, and consequently asked a question that doesn't make any sense. While groups can try to carve out their own pocket, or sub-cultures, inevitably the syncretic American culture is voracious and will adopt them all. It's not because white peope are bad and mean, or even because they really intend to, it's because culture spreads with contact. If you want to keep a sub-culture to yourself, as any hipster knows, you can't share it with people.

Great explanation.

I saw this thread yesterday and it just didn't make sense to me. It seemed like OP was confusing race with culture and didn't know how to respond to that.