If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
- Thread starter wildfire
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User 73706
Banned
Yeah, this. I haven't heard "I just want you to know I've always been a man" on a first date, so I don't expect the converse, either.
Most trans people think it is a hated useless detail of their privacy that belongs to past that they don't want to talk about.
Also there is a high chance of a stranger beating you if he discovers.
So no, most trans would only consider talking when things get serious
Oddly enough I feel the opposite. If I can overcome the social aspects of dating a transgender I can get over the biology.
Come on, bruh. That's not fair to say. There are certainly a lot of reasons why some people don't want to date transgenders, a lot of which have been posted in this thread, that are not unreasonable.
Agreed and hence why it's more important to assess someone as an individual rather than make broad assumptions.
As a side note, I love your tag because I like to think your soon to be fiance is a gaffer and a mod wants to be a dick and spoil the surprise.
Maintenance
Member
What? Just as easily? C'mon now.
People have preferences though, there's nothing wrong with that.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
The parents feelings can either help a lot, or hurt a lot depending on whether they are accepting. If they are not accepting, it can lead to a lot of misery and in some cases suicidie, as we have seen by Leelhah Acorn this year.
Treating people at restaurants isn't that hard, especially if they pass as a female.
Such bullshit. So what if one person does not want to adopt, but instead wants to have a child of his own, one that carries his genetic legacy along the genes of her significant other? Why are you being so dense about this?
A man is not going to "just as easily" appear in a women's restroom as he would a unisex restroom.
Take a minute to think about it before you post again, please.
Union Carbine
Member
Yes it does. A guy might be uncomfortable or hesitant going into a ladies room that he would not be going into a unisex restroom. And that discomfort or hesitance could be enough to derail the assault from happening.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Would you be attracted to this person until they told you they were born male?
Why would people at a restaurant know? Also you don't want to go down the "majority of people have this opinion" route. Trust me.
I'm a cis-heterosexual. Not all human relations are solely based on ability to have children. You think people that don't want kids have no reason to date or marry?
Number 2 is a generalization and a bad one at that. You can raise a family with someone that is transgendered. If you want to have a child that is biologically yours then you would have to find a surrogate. You would not have the ability right now to have a child with a transgendered mate, so if you are looking for that in a family then maybe it isn't for you. But the definition of a family is broad.
Oh I know. I'm saying this as a way they most probably don't if they really get the female form right.
Most definitely, if there was a man willing to enter a woman's bathroom then nothing will really stop him. In this case however, it was one drunk man on my tiny girlfriend who entered long before he did. Had they been in separate bathrooms, chances are good they would have never even known of eachother's existence.
Separating them isn't foolproof, but I disagree with the notion that it'd do nothing at all.
The fact that you think the room saying "ladies" would deter someone looking to perform an assault shows it's you that needs to think a bit. Not me.
You aren't reducing any actual risk. You're just giving her the illusion she's safer.
Not to mention the fact that a man entering a bathroom designated for women, is going to catch the attention of others, who might then call for security and/or otherwise increase the likelihood that the assault is prevented or the person caught. Most people who are prone to committing assault, don't want to be noticed or draw attention to themselves.
Simply Sarah
Member
All right, kid gloves off. I'm getting really sick of everyone here saying "Lol, I'd only date XX woman!" because it's a ridiculously ignorant statement that displays a fundamental lack of knowledge on sexual biology. Unless you require every woman you date to show lab results indicating her sex chromosome genotype you can't actually know that she's XX. Unless you know their genital configuration at birth you cannot know if they're intersex. And no, these conditions are not ultra rare. Depending on exactly what you want to include, some current estimates have one of them occurring in over 1% of the population. Is someone with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome a man in your view, despite developing externally just like an "XX woman" would? Is a woman that has had a hysterectomy no longer a woman because she no longer has a uterus? If she no longer has ovaries?
Nevermind.
I wonder...
If in the future we could grow perfect bodies for our minds to switch to, and if a person born genetically male but identifying as female switched their conciousness into a brand new female physcial form, if the people who had objections now would still have them.
That's pretty fucked up. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with somebody's views on datig trans-gendered people. It is not okay to carry on an intimate relationship like that while holding information like that. If you have good reason to believe a person will not want to be in a relationship/have sex with you if they knew about that part of you, it's wrong to not disclose that.
Union Carbine
Member
It's not really the same as the assumption has been that you've always been a man so why would someone ask you?
But SOME are. And many are based around biological functions that drive people towards procation. It's not that I think things are a single way. It's that you were. I'm pointing out that there are people that differ here. So you're calling someone out on not having interest in someone with perfectly nipped tucked genitals is irrelevant and reductionist.
Dude.
Opportunity is different here. The assault probably doesn't plan on assault just a woman, but he finds himself in a Unisex toilet with a girl and no one else is around, so he commits the assault in a room with just one exit where the woman herself, (and I don't want to trigger anything) was probably in a stool removing her own clothes.
That and I there was a Unisex toilet somewhere in a primary school I went to (mistakenly) and boys would peak on the girls.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Over 1% of the population is nothing. That's almost as low of a percentage as you can get.
Relatively high chance. It's a very low chance, but higher than a biologically (insert sex here) person getting beaten, which is virtually non-existent.
Where do you draw the line? Whatif a man has had no work done at all but claims to identify as a woman?can she go into the ladies room? If so, how do women tell who is telling the truth and who is lying?
I would have as a child. I know that for certain.
But we would probably then identify people as their soul and say they have a male/female body. In which case trans would be a weird thing.
HUELEN10
Member
I think it is very bold and ignorant to assume that all people who wouldn't date a transperson aren't learned on the way things are; preferences do exist, sexual orientation does exist. By saying things like these, you risk sounding intolerant of people simply because thier preferences (preferences they didn't choose) aren't as wide as your might be, and I think that is in turn very narrow-minded.
Just because someone's sexual preference doesn't include certain people does not make them ignorant haters who deserve to be hated on. It's like hating on Bisexuals for being bisexual instead of pansexual; you are making no sense.
Well what did you guys think I was referring to in the OP with the bathroom example? We arrest men for violating the space reserved for such women. As I said earlier I'm sure some women are ok with sharing with transgender women but from my experience in face to face conversations and online most women aren't.
This is the conundrum I personally wanted to unravel but we shouldn't limit our discussion to just that example.
As long as the person isn't being a creepy pervy sex criminal in the bathroom what does it matter?
Why would he care to go to a girl's toilet though? He can like and act anyway in a world where people were completely gender blind, so we wouldn't even have terms for gender. We'd only ever talk about sex.
So I guess it would Dick's room and Pussy's room.
I mean, you feel this way, and I agree with you, but this isn't reality.
Number 2 is so sad. Basically you are not interested in people who have it harder in life than you :/
Hence why I feel it's the social hangs up that are an issue.
Even in the context of people wanting to have children without the use of a surrogate or even adoption, there's nothing wrong to want a child from actual birthing from your significant other even if only to have less complications.
It is a generalization. I doubt it is a bad one. If someone felt strongly enough about their identity to go to the trouble of of fully becoming the gender they identify with, then they're going to be pretty damn interested in defining who they are.
You're right, the definition of family is broad. I am interested in a narrow one. I want the kid to be ours and I don't want a surrogate. I would also prefer the kids to be breastfed from a mother with a decent measles antibody titer.
And there are people that hate sharing the bathroom with a person that's different than them in "X" way.
Just because someone is creeped out or uncomfortable sharing the bathroom with a gay person doesn't mean straight rights are being trampled. The same goes here.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
What
Omegasquash
Member
I'd date a transgender.
I mean, I'm married, but I don't think that a transgender is all that different from a woman...isn't the point that they ARE actually a woman?
I mean, I'm married, but I don't think that a transgender is all that different from a woman...isn't the point that they ARE actually a woman?
I'm linking together:
1. my perception of what it is to be a woman
2. How that perception starts and ends at the point of how it impacts me
3. how other people don't see other people as women when it impacts them
4. me and a few others telling them get over it because they are women
I'm hoping people try exploring the inverse but I was struggling to make a good example for trans men and cis men interactions that is easy to understand like the example I used.
User 73706
Banned
I had reservations about this for a while too, but the inverse of wanting to specifically adopt. Thing is, there are options out there where you can have genetic information - from same-sex couples, no less! - used for a surrogacy and continue your bloodline. We're not cavemen pissing in fields to mark them as our own. It's 2015. Sticking your dick in a woman until a baby comes out doesn't even make the kid "yours" 100% of the time anymore. Paperwork establishes the parents and levels of potential involvement, all while homosexual couples are continuing the work of their progenitors and maintaining their genes. It's a great time to be alive!
For one, this explains a lot, but my point in highlighting this is that it seems like a really shitty way to exist unless you're of a compound intelligence or an automaton.
What is wrong with what he is saying? Breast-feeding has many results on a child's development mentally and emotionally (to their mother). He doesn't mean without it it's wrong to have kids, he is saying what he would prefer. Him wanting to best for his child makes insane sense.
How much do you give a shit about trans man coming to use a toilet you use?
Woman are not different creatures you know. You don't have to specify this issue to be about trans women and how women feel about it when you can do the equivalent yourself.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Would you like to explain why?
Sorry Petrie, that's bollocks. Go to any nightclub bathroom or sporting event and you'll have guys stumbling around the urinals, laughing or giving out hassle. I've been hassled multiple times by morons in the bathroom of such locations. Now, put those guys in a situation with women and you're really going to argue that the likelihood or sexual harassment or assault isn't going to go up? Maybe a unisex bathroom can work in the antiseptic environment of Smith and Bloggs LLC but in many cases it's a terrible, terrible idea.
No one is saying we want 'XX' women, just women who are the female sex and developed that way with working female sexual organs. There's nothing ignorant about that. Also, 1% of the population is a tiny amount. If most people have 4-8 sexual partners in their lives then most people will never come across a person like this. If you're also saying that you think a heterosexual man couldn't tell the difference between a constructed vagina and a natural one then I think you're wrong, but have no proof handy.
As for androgen sensitivity, does such a person develop a uterus and all that? I'm not fully familiar with how the syndrome works.
Either way, there's nothing ignorant about having sexual preferences, or for those preferences to be rooted in biology.
Simply Sarah
Member
Lol, no it's not. That would mean like 3.2 million people in the U.S.
I said people were ignorant, not bad and not that I hated them. Anyone that outright says they only date XX women clearly is ignorant of reality. Normally I'd be less confrontational, but why do they get to go around blindly and loudly tooting how well they (don't) understand biology and then I get called a hater because I call them on it? It's not hate, it's frustration with trans and intersex people being loudly erased by society even as medical science increases in understanding and recognition of the conditions and realizes they aren't nearly as rare as once though.
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