And_Gignac
Member
Is this kind of degrading shit necessary? Are you implying that trans woman aren't good enough, woman enough or even *people* enough for you to give them the privilege of your vaginal/anal penetration? Ugh.
If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
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Is this kind of degrading shit necessary? Are you implying that trans woman aren't good enough, woman enough or even *people* enough for you to give them the privilege of your vaginal/anal penetration? Ugh.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I know you have been hurt in the past before but labeling a whole group of people like that doesn't help your cause in the long run.
That's his opinion, nothing wrong with that.
User 73706
Banned
I'm not seeing a difference between these distinctions. Separate but equal still means "not real" no matter which way you spin it.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Decide that I want me and my partner to have biological children one day? Yeah, one day I did decide that.
So you're basically saying dating a trans-woman is less favourable because it has disadvantages attached to it?
I don't disagree with you, I'm just wondering if that's your point.
Simply Sarah
Member
Look, I can at least understand the being afraid of cis dudes and wanting to avoid them in romantic situations, but I'm a bit confused by your overall take here. Having privilege doesn't inherently make someone bad or lesser or anything, it's the lack of awareness of it and use of it to stomp on others than becomes an issue. White cis men may be on top, but that doesn't mean they're some sort of oppressing class, it means they're on top of the shit heap.
You monster.
I love my girlfriend who happens to be asian, I find there are many asian girls I find attractive, and I myself am part asian. Sue me.
Nope. Is it wrong to draw the line there? I respect their rights and things but I'm not interested in that.
I read that as trolling, tbh.
Loads of guys act like they have this surplus of irresistible sexual attraction and so they just have to strike off potential recipients of their dongs for the sake of self-preservation. In reality, they sit at home furiously beating their meat and making grand declaratory statements in the off topic section of a notoriously combustible gaming forum.
flashtitan
Banned
Who the hell made Bloodrage boss? Was it Jimbo? Mr. Garrison? Chef? or the 1989 Denver Broncos?
Anyways that's a messed up point of view, but it is your own so good on ya
HUELEN10
Member
That and just because you were born male doesn't mean you somehow get "cis male privilege". I know I haven't gotten it, hell I get hassled and treated differently just because I'm not a woman some of the time, and it happens way more than "on occasion".
And yes, it sucks.
And yet not one person in this thread has been able to offer any information about this most crucial info.
You know, this is hate speech.
It's not okay because its a majority go just generalise in a horrible way. If you feel so disgusted by men as a whole then you should really rethink about that.
You can lower your chances of those things and have your reasons for believing it, you might even have a plausible reason, but trying to convince everyone that white males are all terrible people is fucked up.
King Cobra
Banned
That is his opinion, are you seriously going to try and tell them that they are in the wrong for having a personal preference? I hear this term thrown around "who are you to say who can be a woman" and all that other jazz, but seriously who do you think you are to call someone out like that for expressing something that is completely normal in our society? Seriously you have some nerve.
User 73706
Banned
Why are you defending him? Freedom of speech stops applying when it infringes on the freedoms of others.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
"I think Native American/black people aren't real people, they are savages."
This was a completely normal view in society pretty recently and a "personal preference."
It has no basis in reality obviously but it fits your criteria.
Erin S Kittens
Member
Anyone can discriminate, but no one's got institutional privilege and power like white cis men. In the US, 49 states allow you to use "they were transgender" as a valid legal defense for murdering somebody. As this thread illustrates, most cis men have bizarre hangups about transgender individuals (including an overwhelming belief that all or most trans people are MTF, apparently). When we're engaged in legal battles for equality in matters governed by civil law, it's white cis men who stand in our way.
To clarify, I would date a white cis man if he was sufficiently educated on the systems of privileges and prejudices that rule our society, if he was actively anti-racist, if he was actively working to dismantle that hierarchy. That's one of my main prerequisites for considering dating anybody. However, in my 30 years, that has yet to happen with a white cis male.
Yeah I can see that! Sorry, I was a bit rushed, it might not have made sense.
What I mean is, if you start dating a trans woman, you fall in love, it's a great relationship etc, how do you know for sure you'll just one day just decide you've had enough?
People use "opinion" as some kind of shield to protect them from criticism and I will never understand in what world that should apply?
An opinion can still be shit. An opinion can still be worth attacking. An opinion can be hurtful to other people.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The difference is that he didn't say anything about them being savages or not real people, or even that they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. He just said he might have sex with them, but wouldn't date them. These two situations aren't even remotely comparable when you bring context into the situation.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Yes, because it's a vagina.
EDIT: I misread which comment this was in reply to, still I'll leave my post intact to counter the "it's just my preference" argument.
The issue is where the preference comes from or what it even means in certain situations.
As someone wrote above, if a body showed no obvious signs of surgery and the person appeared female physically with no way of telling otherwise, but had been born a man, then what what is the preference set against?
I'm not saying you should berate a person for these preferences because we all exist in the same place and have to deal with the bullshit in our own ways, but it is definitely something that should be discussed.
I'd say he's a decent person, which is more than I can say for the person he's quoting.
Not the same at all. He isn't saying trans women are mentally disturbed men etc. He is saying they are not a woman woman. Which is pretty much, hurtful but, true depending on what you mean by it. It's an opinion.
He didn't say separate but equal, he said different but equal, which they clearly are. If you are saying that means 'not real' then you are the one denying trans women their identity not him. The whole point of gender is that it's not based on anything physical, so that trans and cis women can be physically different but the same gender. That's the point he was making. And you can't argue that trans and cis women aren't physically different.
Merely stating your opinion on the nature of transgenderism, no matter how rudely, does not infringe on anyone's rights, and freedom of speech is protected for just such unpopular and offensive opinions, I don't agree with that guy at all, but his point certainly falls under freedom of speech.
And_Gignac
Member
he wrote that he wouldn't date a trans woman but would let her suck his dick. Do you have any idea how dehumanizing for trans woman such statement is?
Weirdly enough not all trans people think the same way as some tumblr post you've seen or something.
And for people saying "I don't believe in transgender" you can not believe in something all you want but it still exists.
hydragonwarrior
Member
And yet I'm not interested and that seems to be that.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean anyone has to listen to, entertain, respect, or even give a platform to opinions.
Although my stance won't change on not dating a trans woman, I do agree that's fucked up. Besides, allowing for any sort of intimacy like that can just lead a person on and would just hurt them in the long run.
then youre officially a CIS male scum-bag or at least that's where this discussion is going
this is truly a remarkable thread
youre attracted to who youre attracted to, if they happen to be a cis woman or trans woman, so be it
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
If your definition of a "real" woman is a woman whose sex and gender were female at birth, sure. That's not my definition, though. And I didn't say that they were equal, if by "equal" you mean the same exact thing. I very clearly said that cis women and trans women are not the same thing.
Either way, saying that heterosexual cis men who are averse to dating trans women feel so because they don't see trans women as "real" women is an accusatory, emotionally loaded statement, no matter the semantic technicalities over the subjective definitions of words.
It's possible. Anything is. There's like a 99.9% chance that won't happen though.
This is in such bad taste. People really showing their colors in trying to demonize cis attractions.
My biology does nothing to drive interest thus far in trans-woman. I will see and treat them as woman but I don't have to go above and beyond that. I don't owe them anything, they are entitled to anything special or more.
If a trans-woman passed looked just a convincing and beautiful as a real woman, that isn't enough. I'm not so shallow that that I merely want eye candy. Though thus far I have not seen any trans-woman that I was attracted to more over an average woman. Pictures of people dressed up in their best clothes, with their best make up in their best post do not count. Actual transfolk in their daily lives, I've yet to met one that I was attracted to. I don't believe in the soul mate, and there are way more naturally born woman than transwoman. I'd rather go looking for someone that I was physically attracted to. So numbers game alone I will find a better mate in a naturally born woman. Not to mention the averageness of beauty. Biologically I'm attuned to the average of feminine beauty. So that's two numbers games naturally born woman are winning.
But beyond outward looks, so much more goes into it. Pheromones serve as markers describing the other person's health to us. There is a completely different way that I light up to actually woman that I'm infatuated with. It's a reviving sort of attraction. It refreshes interest in a person. It is so incredibly easy for purely outward attraction to vanish as you become more and more used to seeing the person. Also there is something distinct about the personalities, or mannerism that a naturally born woman has that is also a big part of attraction. Them experience menstrual cycles has a biological effect on me. It's very much feels like a paternal instinct.
I think us men are entitled to our paternal instinct. If we have them we shouldn't be expected to cast them aside.
Plus there is the other side which is rationalizing my future prospects with someone. I want to settle down and have kids with someone. Attraction is largely based on fertility, but imitating fertility markers is not that same. It only goes part of the way. But even if it does trick me, it's hard to justify that life move rationally. I have wants too, and I want to have biological kids. I think it's perfectly fine to listen to both my biology and my rational mind in planning my life.
So I certainly wouldn't marry a trans-woman when there is so much more opportunity out there to find a natural born woman whom I will fall in love with and befriend. I shouldn't be expected to settle for less, or just work around things by adopting. I'd love to adopt, but I also want to try for real kids.
If I'm not going to marry a transwoman, why would I spend time dating one? Maybe a few dates would be fine, but serious dating? Where outside of work, career building and higher education I'm making my life about this other person? That's too much for someone that I don't plan on marrying. I have life goals and aspirations beyond just married life, or acknowledging someone else's life. I really can't be bothered sacrificing so much of my own nature to just appease someone else's ideals of how we should carry ourselves.
I think it's morally fine for a cis person to be with a trans person, transitioning or not. But why is my personal stance so much less moral? I'm not entirely writing it off, but going on statistics I don't see it happening. Nor will I go out of the way to make it work or prove I'm willing to make it work. Because that's just not the direction that my life and everything that is me is going.
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HUELEN10
Member
I just... wow. Make the claims you want, but I think that based on your posts, you are being prejudiced and discriminatory. I am having a hard time even reading this.
I don't think that is ignorant, no. I'm not sure how I inspired the question, though!
Wait, really? I recall reading that the "panic" defense was not often successful.
Erin S Kittens
Member
Thanks for the vote of confidence that I could oppress cis white men from my socioeconomic strata.
California's the only state that's banned the trans panic defense, and that only happened a handful of months ago. It's still a valid legal defense in the rest of the US.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I'm responding entirely to the idea that "personal preference" and "completely normal in society" are good enough reasons to hold a belief. Not to the prior posts. I don't know what the previously quoted poster was implying or meaning.
Is this comment meant for me or the other post you made, because we are saying exact opposites. In fact my post was disagreeing WITH the opinion in the other quote.
Union Carbine
Member
If you want to do more than rail in anger, you might want to practice some empathy-- even if you don't agree with the motives yourself. After all, isn't that what you would require white cis men to do?
Fair enough. Those are some big shoes to fill and I wouldn't be surprised you didn't find someone of any gender/ethnicity to fill them.
HUELEN10
Member
I was using your post to reinforce how discriminatory the other post was being.
Wow that escalated quickly.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
So if someone is asexual does that mean they are prejudiced against everyone?
I imagine the magnitude of a cis male's insecurities are tiny in comparison to yours, and fear of rejection based on your identity keeps you away from them altogether. That's just a guess though.
Oh...
I had to re-read mine a few times. I like to learn when I say something wrong and try to understand it, as I may end up changing my opinion. I was pretty confused.
Well by technical definition yes, but if you're prejudiced against everyone you approach being prejudiced to no-one. Kinda like trying to divide 1 by infinity.
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