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[Maninthemirror]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/mon...-t-hear-case-of-woman-wearing-hijab-1.2974282

A Quebec judge told a woman appearing in her Montreal courtroom she would not hear her case until she removed her hijab.

In an audio recording of the proceedings obtained by CBC News, Judge Eliana Marengo is heard telling Rania El-Alloul on Tuesday that the courtroom is a secular place and that she is not suitably dressed.

"Hats and sunglasses for example, are not allowed. And I don't see why scarves on the head would be either," Marengo says in the recording.

"The same rules need to be applied to everyone. I will therefore not hear you if you are wearing a scarf on your head, just as I would not allow a person to appear before me wearing a hat or sunglasses on his or her head, or any other garment not suitable for a court proceeding."

When El-Alloul first appeared before Marengo, the judge asked her why she had a scarf on her head. El-Alloul replied that it was because she is a Muslim. The judge then said she would take a 30-minute recess.

When Marengo returned, she told El-Alloul she had a choice: remove her headscarf immediately or apply for a postponement in order to consult a lawyer. El-Alloul replied that she couldn't afford a lawyer and that she didn't want to postpone the case. Marengo then adjourned the case indefinitely.

'I felt that I'm not Canadian anymore'

In an interview, El-Alloul said she couldn't believe what was happening.

"When I came the first day when I made landing in Canada, I was wearing my hijab," she recalled.

"When I swore by God to be a good Canadian citizen I was wearing my hijab, and the judge, I shook hands with him the same day I became Canadian. I was really very happy. But what happened in court made me feel afraid. I felt that I'm not Canadian anymore."

El-Alloul said she's speaking out because she doesn't want what happened to her to happen to any other Muslim woman.

"When she insisted I should remove my hijab, really I felt like she was talking with me as ... not a human being. I don't want this thing to happen to any other lady. This is not the work of a judge. She doesn't deserve to be a judge."

Right to wear a hijab where the face is not covered or not is the question in any location and does anyone have the ethical right to refuse accordance because of wearing it?

 

[Tesseract]

no hats or sunglasses should include hijabs

not a human being because you gotta remove a cap? rekt.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

no hats or sunglasses should include hijabs

And yarmulkes and turbans and visible crosses and any manner of visible religious garb.

I certainly hope there's consistency in the execution of such a demand to remove items that aren't suitable for court setting .

 

[Nesotenso]

no hats or sunglasses should include hijabs

not a human being because you gotta remove a cap? rekt.

I am guessing this includes Sikh turbans as well.

 

[Kinitari]

We make exceptions to rules for religious reasons all the time, as long as it's harmless, it should be the case here.

 

[A Link to the Past]

A big issue is that she says she doesn't see why scarves should be allowed. While she says it is a secular place, she is either being disingenuous in saying that she doesn't understand, or she is unintelligent.

 

[GSG Flash]

That judge is almost assuredly a racist piece of shit. Let's not forget that you have to swear an oath on the bible in Quebec courtrooms.

 

[Loofy]

Isn't the whole under oath thing under god?

 

[Tesseract]

And yarmulkes and turbans and visible crosses and any manner of visible religious garb.

I certainly hope there's consistency in the execution of such a demand to remove items that aren't suitable for court setting .

yes, all that stupid shit should come off in court

That judge is almost assuredly a racist piece of shit. Let's not forget that you have to swear an oath on the bible in Quebec courtrooms.

w/e, that's just archaic convention

 

[Ashes]

I suppose judges are there to uphold the law. If secularism is that intolerable that one cannot wear a hat or sunglasses we ought to maybe redraw the lines to be a little more on the tolerant side.

 

[G.ZZZ]

I don't see the issue. You're in a court of law, you respect the etiquette. If you think such rules degrade your rights, you have serious issues.

 

[ultratruman]

That judge is almost assuredly a racist piece of shit. Let's not forget that you have to swear an oath on the bible in Quebec courtrooms.

Islam is a race?

 

[Mr.Swag]

yes, all that stupid shit should come off in court

I agree.

God/belief has no place in a court of law

 

[Escape Goat]

We should just make everyone get naked. That way its just us and the truth.

 

[Volimar]

We make exceptions to rules for religious reasons all the time, as long as it's harmless, it should be the case here.

Basically this. There is nothing remotely inappropriate or disrespectful about her religious headwear.

 

[The Culture Vulture]

The only way I could defend the judge was if her face was covered.

If it's just a head dressing he's a racist piece of shit.

 

[Somnid]

I don't see the overall importance of no hats/sunglasses other than "properness" which ultimately isn't that important and not enough to hold up a case. But if you are going to enforce a cultural "properness" it should be based on the locality (which is admittedly rather nebulous), without individual exceptions.

 

[The Technomancer]

What a jerk. A politician wearing a cross doesn't make his workplace less secular

 

[genjiZERO]

yes, all that stupid shit should come off in court

But why? They're innocuous.

Hell, in Britain judges and advocates wear wigs.

 

[Shiggy]

Well, she came to Canada, so she should adapt to Canadian rules and culture.

 

[Escape Goat]

But why? They're innocuous.

Hell, in Britain judges and advocates wear wigs.

They still do that?

Whatyearisit?.gif

 

[esms]

We should just make everyone get naked. That way its just us and the truth.

In this world, I'd be excited for jury duty.

 

[GreekWolf]

We make exceptions to rules for religious reasons all the time, as long as it's harmless, it should be the case here.

Then I should just as certainly have the religious right to refuse to remove my baseball cap, because the Flying Spaghetti Monster demands it in the second chapter of Ravioli.

 

[The Technomancer]

The only way I could defend the judge was if her face was covered.

If it's just a head dressing he's a racist piece of shit.

She, female judge

 

[Sai-kun]

Wow that's pretty fucking dumb.

A big issue is that she says she doesn't see why scarves should be allowed. While she says it is a secular place, she is either being disingenuous in saying that she doesn't understand, or she is unintelligent.

You nailed it.

 

[Abounder]

"Hats and sunglasses for example, are not allowed. And I don't see why scarves on the head would be either," Marengo says in the recording.

Sounds reasonable to remove one's headscarf in a courtroom

 

[kIdMuScLe]

Islam is a race?

just like a jew is a race

 

[Volimar]

Well, she came to Canada, so she should adapt to Canadian rules and culture.

Is it illegal to wear religious headwear in public in Canada?

 

[HarryKS]

Marengo hospital/asylum. Good.

 

[Tesseract]

We should just make everyone get naked. That way its just us and the truth.

honestly, i kinda like this idea

 

[Frog-fu]

Sounds reasonable to remove one's headscarf in a courtroom

No, it doesn't, because you don't wear a hat or glasses for religious reasons. A hijab should be perfectly fine.

 

[Resident_UA]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/mon...-t-hear-case-of-woman-wearing-hijab-1.2974282





Right to wear a hijab where the face is not covered or not is the question in any location and does anyone have the ethical right to refuse accordance because of wearing it?

I think that the law passed in France few years ago was stupid, but this seems relatively reasonable...

 

[Derpyduck]

The only way I could defend the judge was if her face was covered.

If it's just a head dressing he's a racist piece of shit.

Two things - Islam isn't a race. And the judge is a woman.

 

[vypek]

Why are hats and sunglasses not allowed? I wonder what are the origins for these kinds of rules. I also don't like when people have to rise because a judge is entering. Seems pompous.

 

[Escape Goat]

honestly, i kinda like this idea

Lawyers will have their briefs but still topless.

 

[Cat Party]

And yarmulkes and turbans and visible crosses and any manner of visible religious garb.

I certainly hope there's consistency in the execution of such a demand to remove items that aren't suitable for court setting .

It's not that religious things aren't allowed, it's that hats and stuff on your face or head is not allowed. And you don't automatically get an exception just because it's religious. It's up to the judge whether to allow it.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

What a stupid reason not to hear her case. The hijab does not hide her appearance and the judge, imo, is wrong. I doubt she would force a Jew to remove his yamaka (sp?) or a Sikh to remove his turban. What a pointless sword for the judge to fall on.

 

[joeygreco1985]

Sounds about right for Quebec. Remember this fucking thing:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...eligious-symbols-for-public-workers-1.1699315

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I wear a turban, so if I were to go into his courtroom, I'd have to remove it?

Yeah, no. If ICBC and the government of Canada are cool with me wearing it for official IDs like licenses and passports, then I think I'm good. It's ludicrous that he wanted her to remove it.

But it's Quebec, so I'm not that surprised.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Non-issue, you are in court; remove hats, scarves, sunglasses, etc. (yes that includes turbans/hijab).

 

[Terra Firma]

Well, she came to Canada, so she should adapt to Canadian rules and culture.

What exactly is this Canadian "culture" that you're referring to? In many parts of Canada, wearing a Sikh turban is as Canadian as you can get. Not everyone wears beaver hats here. Canada is a multicultural country. This judge is a bigot.

 

[Tesseract]

Then I should just as certainly have the religious right to refuse to remove my baseball cap, because the Flying Spaghetti Monster demands it in the second chapter of Ravioli.

tomato garlic be with you, greekwolf

It's not that religious things aren't allowed, it's that hats and stuff on your face or head is not allowed. And you don't automatically get an exception just because it's religious. It's up to the judge whether to allow it.

yeah, it's a simple thing

 

[OrangeJulius]

While I agree that religion has no place in a court room, this seems like one of those "pick your battles wisely" kind of thing.

Personally I'd let it slide, doesn't seem worth the hassle and hub bub it would cause to try and make her remove it.

 

[Loofy]

Well, she came to Canada, so she should adapt to Canadian rules and culture.

Except it isn't. Its one racist judge. The prime minister already condemned this action.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Sounds reasonable to remove one's headscarf in a courtroom

Hats and sunglasses are not closely tied into a person's religion. And the fact that Christian imagery doesn't get nearly the scrutiny of head scarves.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Non-issue, you are in court; remove hats, scarves, sunglasses, etc. (yes that includes turbans/hijab).

Like turbans are sacred to Sikh men, Hijab is an example of sacred modesty shown by some muslim women,

 

[Volimar]

Why are hats and sunglasses not allowed? I wonder what are the origins for these kinds of rules. I also don't like when people have to rise because a judge is entering. Seems pompous.

It is considered disrespectful.

 

[Derpyduck]

Non-issue, you are in court; remove hats, scarves, sunglasses, etc. (yes that includes turbans/hijab).

Why? Hats, scarves and sunglasses are to protect you from the elements outside. Her hijab is literally who she is.

 

[Off-Kilter]

We make exceptions to rules for religious reasons all the time, as long as it's harmless, it should be the case here.

A big issue is that she says she doesn't see why scarves should be allowed. While she says it is a secular place, she is either being disingenuous in saying that she doesn't understand, or she is unintelligent.

Yep.

 

[ultratruman]

just like a jew is a race

Jew can refer to an amalgam of different but specific ethnicities. 'Muslim' is purely a religious denomination, especially in this context when the issue is with a religious ritual, not the individual's race