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Neil Blomkamp's Alien film a direct sequel to Aliens; disregards Alien 3/Resurrection
- Thread starter shinobi602
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Gambit 1138
Banned
I don't want hicks to get that ugly scar thats in the concept art
You are just being willfully obstinate now.
The whole hype-machine for this movie is based on erasing the hideous sequels that followed Aliens, everybody in Hollywood knows Alien 3 was a terrible mistake.
He got the scar in Aliens when he got acid blood sprayed on his face.
my dream
I just don't think that this should be the thread title since nothing has been officially confirmed as of yet. It is all reading between the lines. I personally like the idea and am supportive of it, but I don't want them to change whatever happened in Alien 3 whith Weyland and the way it ended for example. Of course they could have opted not to kill of Newt and Beihn but anyone who played Colonial Marines (which is confirmed as canon by Fox) knows it wasn't Biehn at the beginning of Alien 3 anyway. The fact that Newt dies is not a reason to retcon the whole Alien 3 story. I personally have no issues with the fact she is being killed off. I didn't like her at all in Aliens. She was more annoying then actually helpful during the whole movie/plot. I sincerely hope they don't go the Aliens/action route with this movie. We have enough action movies anyway, and too little suspense/thriller movies like the first Alien.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
It's like you read my mind.
I'll keep saying it but, a large amount of the hate Alien 3 gets comes from hardcore Aliens fans who were pissed that Newt and Hicks died in the first five minutes. Some of them get so emotional, they let that fury obfuscate them from judging the film on merits aside from that. But,...what do you expect from a sci-fi/horror film? Everyone lives happily ever after?
I'm not saying those characters had to die, but in a film with that kind of mood and outlook it's unfair to use the unrealistic expectation that ALL 3 SURVIVORS from the previous film also survive through the sequel (via plot armor) against it. Their deaths could have been done with more subtlety and taste but the deaths themselves are not a problem.
I wasn't even miffed with Ripley's death; it was a fitting end, a pyrrhic victory showing that the ugliness of the xenomorph and the ugliness of human nature are destined to end in each other's arms. That the xenomorphs were always symbolic of our predatory abusiveness and cruelty, a literal representation of the perverseness in humanity. In the end, we likely can't rise above that, but can make peace with the fact, and pay for our cruelty right by its side.
People hate Alien 3 because it's a shit movie, not just because it killed off two main characters Poochie-style. Even the director disowned the movie, maybe if Fincher had been allowed to make it without the studio interfering he could have salvaged something from the wreckage. The ending is the only good part.
The Assembly Cut makes minor improvements but it's still only polishing a turd.
The Assembly Cut makes minor improvements but it's still only polishing a turd.
Because it is? Fox is the license owner and they have decided it is canon. What's more to say? They retconned Hicks' death and now he is alive. Game spoiler (lol):
This new storyline will be quite useful for this new Alien movie...
Because it's a fucking video game. And a bad one at that.
Now, what happened with the Ghostbusters game is an entirely different thing because it had the creators involved and they wrote the story to the game. Unless James Cameron came on board and said that Colonial Marines is true to his vision and tells a story he wanted and got involved with game and all that. Then it would be legit. But that didn't happen. All you have is that studio said it was cannon, and I should point out that at one point even AVP was considered cannon.
So STFU about Colonial Marines being cannon and pull your heads out of your asses. Seriously.
Is anyone so dense that they think Blomkamp will be obligated to follow the cannon of that POS game? Come the fuck on.
Why are so many people pretending James Cameron had anything to do with the creation of the Alien franchise, characters, or story? Why would the first person to take over the concept from the actual creators have to sign off to make something official? Just because he screwed it up first and missed the point of the original means he gets to have official say on who else can do the same?
Screwed it up? He made a sequel so good that Hollywood wants to go back in time and wipe films 3 and 4 from existence.
True Savior
Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Whether or not something is canon is a fluid concept. They'll change it whenever it suits them. Yeah the videogame was canon while they were trying to sell it, now it's out and no one gives a fuck anymore so they can safely ignore it if they want to. And if ignoring Alien 3 and Resurrection is beneficial they'll do that.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
James Cameron is the authority on the Alien franchise now? Wouldn't Scott's say have more weight?
Just because the creator may disown the work doesn't mean others have to prevent themselves from seeing the good in it. We know that most of Fincher's disapproval was with the tampering behind-the-scenes; fair to say the studio drama tainted his perception of the film more than the final cut's quality. He'd never come right out and say "It's Fox's fault. Fox are assholes, they screwed me over on my vision"...of course he'd never outright say that. And I'm not saying his feeling are out of spite either, just that I feel a lot of his animosity for 3 is over what it represents as an experience he went through at that time, than what the film itself actually is.
Also, just because a person doesn't want to tell a particular story, doesn't mean that story is bad. They just find themselves in the mood to tell a different story. It's arguable Fincher's desired Alien 3 would have been a better film; we can only go by his successive works to say that it likely would have been.
That said, I'm sure deep down inside he likes certain aspects of the film otherwise he would have outright disowned it or left the project completely, and even if that (for whatever convoluted reason) isn't the case, it doesn't prevent those who enjoyed the film from seeing qualities in it maybe Fincher didn't/does not.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There's one "n" in canon.
Just the one.
And again, a reminder: A fair amount of why Alien 3 plays like it does is because Weaver wanted it to play that way.
I'd also find myself closer in agreement to jhmte with regards to why Alien 3 is "hated" specifically. There are people very disappointed in the movie for lots of reasons, most of which have to do with the theatrical version, the broken nature of the film, and the dour tone of the thing, which eschewed both horror AND action to focus mostly on introspective drama and meditation on mortality, which - even if it HAD been executed the way it was intended - still would have disappointed a ton of people.
But there's a lot of room between "disappointed" and "hate," and I've found the closer you get to the "hate" side, the more it has to do with Newt & Hicks dying. That takes massive priority, to the point where you start to wonder whether people aren't just shoring up their main point with talking points/random details as a means to obfuscate the fact they don't really have much more reason to "hate" the movie than that.
I think there's a reason more people, upon getting the blu-ray set in the last 2 or 3 years as it's been around 20-30 bucks on sale consistently, give the Assembly Cut a try and find it to be an okay movie - and I don't think it's just because the Assembly Cut is better. It's because they're getting farther and farther removed from the sort of knee-jerk, patented fan response that's been repeated so much since it came out that for awhile there, it became codified - a thing you say because everyone else says it and saying it places you "in the know" and "in the right."
But enough time has passed, (and shittier movies based on the Aliens just KEEP coming out, despite everyone's best efforts), that people are re-evaluating the film (or just plain old evaluating it for the first time, removed from the "betrayal" of 1992) and while it still comes up lacking - it can't NOT, really - more and more people are less willing to just do the quick writeoff of it, ESPECIALLY not for a reason as solitary as "Hicks & Newt died."
Just the one.
And again, a reminder: A fair amount of why Alien 3 plays like it does is because Weaver wanted it to play that way.
I'd also find myself closer in agreement to jhmte with regards to why Alien 3 is "hated" specifically. There are people very disappointed in the movie for lots of reasons, most of which have to do with the theatrical version, the broken nature of the film, and the dour tone of the thing, which eschewed both horror AND action to focus mostly on introspective drama and meditation on mortality, which - even if it HAD been executed the way it was intended - still would have disappointed a ton of people.
But there's a lot of room between "disappointed" and "hate," and I've found the closer you get to the "hate" side, the more it has to do with Newt & Hicks dying. That takes massive priority, to the point where you start to wonder whether people aren't just shoring up their main point with talking points/random details as a means to obfuscate the fact they don't really have much more reason to "hate" the movie than that.
I think there's a reason more people, upon getting the blu-ray set in the last 2 or 3 years as it's been around 20-30 bucks on sale consistently, give the Assembly Cut a try and find it to be an okay movie - and I don't think it's just because the Assembly Cut is better. It's because they're getting farther and farther removed from the sort of knee-jerk, patented fan response that's been repeated so much since it came out that for awhile there, it became codified - a thing you say because everyone else says it and saying it places you "in the know" and "in the right."
But enough time has passed, (and shittier movies based on the Aliens just KEEP coming out, despite everyone's best efforts), that people are re-evaluating the film (or just plain old evaluating it for the first time, removed from the "betrayal" of 1992) and while it still comes up lacking - it can't NOT, really - more and more people are less willing to just do the quick writeoff of it, ESPECIALLY not for a reason as solitary as "Hicks & Newt died."
Jack Scofield
Member
It's pretty funny how people keep beating the "Colonial Marines is canon" drum. Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection were canon at one point as well. So was the Star Wars Expanded Universe. What's canon changes depending on the needs of the writers at any point in time. People should stop putting so much emphasis on it.
This is a terrible premise. Myself and millions of other fans want to know what is official and what's not. What you're describing sounds like a season of Lost. No. I want to know what is official timeline and what isn't. If shit gets retconned the series loses its integrity and originality.
IGN had a long talk with Blomkamp about his approach, the films / Isolation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRO5g51OMoM
This interview confirms Ridley Scott is producing and that it may run side to side with Prometheus 2 (launch-wise).
SCReuter
Member
"I'm a fan of Alien. I'm a fan of Aliens. And Alien 3 onwards went in a direction I didn't want, so, like, I just get the chance to try to tell my version of how I think it should have happened."
Gambit 1138
Banned
I hope blomkamp at least tries to get a meeting/lunch date with Cameron to incorporate some of his ideas and advice on the franchise
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's a fan-film.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Well that's interesting because it may hopefully explain if and when the Engineers went extinct, though I find it hard to believe it was by xenomorphs given the firepower the Engineers had, they could exterminate them well enough if they formed up a planned attack. I mean measly human soldiers and Ripley are able to kill hundreds with shit weapons and lack of really understanding them, don't see why the Engineers couldn't do better.
Which leads me to think their extinction probably came from a civil war amongst two factions and one of them used a pet xenomorph as a secret weapon to get a pryhhic victory.
See, I can do fanfiction too 
Quite literally fanfiction.
Gambit 1138
Banned
alien 3 and resurrection were so stupid I think he has the right to overwrite it. Just pretend its like when Lucasfilm dumped out 100s of comics, novels, video games, and movies from canon.
evilromero
Member
Ugh. How is Alien 3 stupid? Because it killed characters you liked? Because it wasn't what you wanted? Or because you think it's a bad film? I personally love it, and that's after seeing it when it first premiered. At the time I was disappointed but I didn't hate it. Twenty years later watching it on blu-ray, I really feel I was way too hard on it. It's fucking beautiful and powerful. It needs to be experienced again but in the theater.
There is no way Neil's movie will come close to A3 I'm thinking.
Fancy Clown
Member
I watched the first hour and a half of the Alien 3 assembly cut and I honestly like it pretty well. It's not scary at all, but I really like the concept as a woman being on an all male prison colony is just the kind of sexual horror subtext that Alien thrives on. The whole religious angle is pretty whacky but entertaining. It certainly is a mean spirited little film though, what with killing Newt and Hicks off screen and then wiping out the one sympathetic, cool dude (and excellent actor) half way through. I will definitely finish it up tonight. it's been ages since I've seen the theatrical cut of the movie, so I'm not sure of all the changes this one has, but I don't remember liking it as much. It's still no Alien or Aliens, obviously, but so far it takes a massive shit on Resurrection and Prometheus. Unless the last hour shits the bed hard, the movie definitely doesn't deserve all the hate it's gotten.
cloud_sleep
Member
Ripley wakes from cryosleep, walks into the showers where Hicks is soaping himself down. "I had the strangest dreams in cryo." she says. "Something about bald men and... basketball?"
evilromero
Member
Hicks drops the soap,..
Warm Machine
Member
http://www.rsafilms.com/company/rsa-usa/director/neill-blomkamp/chappie-trailer-2-6672
Not surprising that Ridley is producing given Blomkamp is one of his guns for hire via his commercial production company.
Not surprising that Ridley is producing given Blomkamp is one of his guns for hire via his commercial production company.
evilromero
Member
If Chappie does ending up tanking, how likely is it that Fox pulls the plug on Aliens?
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
If anything they'll just replace Blomkamp with a different director before canning it. I assume they might see a new Alien film as worth it regardless of what Chappie does critically speaking.
Too many other scifi films have been getting it right these days for them to use one failure (assuming it is one) as an excuse for shelving a hotly anticipated sequel.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Depends on the Level of Tank I would think.
Gambit 1138
Banned
All of the above plus it was a poorly made film
Either that or we get a text crawl stating:
"Do you remember Alien 3, Resurrection and those AVP movies? Yeah, those didn't happen. This is the REAL sequel"
Ala Toxic Avenger part 4: Citizen Toxie.
Warm Machine
Member
Poorly made? By what metric?
Fox has to go back to their own franchises in the wake of the Marvel and DC giant they face year after year. Disney and Warner isn't going to stop.
Busty pointed this out before but it's worth noting that Blomkamp made this deal before Chappie came out. And given that Weaver came on board because of Blomkamp's involvement, his job is probably safe.
That's kinda reassuring. Though this movie is gonna need some good writers. With the harsh reviews Chappie is getting, I'm not sure if I feel good with Blomkamp writing it.
Anyway, with all the love Isolation has been getting in this thread, it's especially encouraging to hear that Blomkamp also loved the game, and might even incorporate ideas from it.
http://www.pcgamer.com/alien-director-neill-blomkamp-says-alien-isolation-got-it-so-perfect/
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I would take anything Sigourney says with a grain of salt. Of course she's going to praise the director of the film she's there to sell.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He needs to stop giving interviews.
They're not helping.
They're not helping.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Because the Chappie thread was becoming overrun, I think we can continue the Alien discussion in this more appropriate thread.
Have you ever watched a Cameron film? He could never direct a horror film and doesn't know how to build dread? You talking about the same guy that directed The Terminator? Even Aliens has almost 90 minutes of build up before we see a single Xeno. It's the Aliens motion tracker sound that became famous for a reason. Inspecting the deserted colony?
Have you ever watched a Cameron film? He could never direct a horror film and doesn't know how to build dread? You talking about the same guy that directed The Terminator? Even Aliens has almost 90 minutes of build up before we see a single Xeno. It's the Aliens motion tracker sound that became famous for a reason. Inspecting the deserted colony?
Good idea.
"They're big space ants" is the reductive statement.
Ants don't need an unwilling host of another species to achieve adulthood, and it's the act of rape of that unwilling host that defines the xenomorph. It is born from it, born from an unspeakable act, it's the manifestation of it.
It's all about sex, that is when we are used and discarded, and that is when the xenomorph takes not only our humanity, but also our life, and our DNA with the 'offspring' of something unwanted and alien. They are a parasite, it's what the key themes in play of rape and pregnancy are all about. Turning us into the facehugger that starts the cycle just undermines the act of what defines the xenomorph.
Understanding the nature of the xenomorph doesn't make it less scary, it makes it more so. Because nature can be brutally efficient. Aliens got it spot-on in this regard.
It's not about suspension of disbelief, it's about what works best.
"They're big space ants" is the reductive statement.
Ants don't need an unwilling host of another species to achieve adulthood, and it's the act of rape of that unwilling host that defines the xenomorph. It is born from it, born from an unspeakable act, it's the manifestation of it.
It's all about sex, that is when we are used and discarded, and that is when the xenomorph takes not only our humanity, but also our life, and our DNA with the 'offspring' of something unwanted and alien. They are a parasite, it's what the key themes in play of rape and pregnancy are all about. Turning us into the facehugger that starts the cycle just undermines the act of what defines the xenomorph.
Understanding the nature of the xenomorph doesn't make it less scary, it makes it more so. Because nature can be brutally efficient. Aliens got it spot-on in this regard.
It's not about suspension of disbelief, it's about what works best.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It also works best in terms of expanding upon the allegorical themes present in the original film. Aliens is all about motherhood and forced pregnancy. The alien life-cycle is integral to those thematic undercurrents.
Purple Mug
Banned
What's with all the Alien 3 hate? Not only is it a good movie (Assembly Cut even better), killing off Hicks and Newt was absolutely the right thematic choice for a sequel. Sigourney actually had a say on this plot point iirc, and for the character arc it was the right call. They were bagage. They were out of place. They served their purpose of giving Ripley a momentary "break" in Aliens, so taking them right away in 3 was the perfect reality check moment for the audience and the main character. No one was safe, ask Clemens who got his skull punched in right as we were starting to warm up to his character.
Alien isnt about cozy alien killing family team moments. Its a bleak fucking universe where the good guys sooner or later inevitably loose.
Aliens instilled in us a sense of heroism and victory. Alien 3 knocked us right the fuck back into the dark, gothic and depressing reality of the Alienverse. One where it totally makes sense that the most we could hope for, was for Ripley to choose to go out on her own terms.
A3 was a bold fucking movie. Regardless of how it got there behind the scenes, it decided to give us a downbeat, lonely and dirty tale instead of the safe, crowd pleasing action team-up stuff Cameron's movie was obviously moving towards. It would never happen today and the sad part is that so many people seem to prefer the safe and expected. Thats why shit like The Avengers sets the box office on fire.
Whatever. Writting it off is a predictable bitch move by the same company that said Colonial Marines was canon. They dont give a fuck and just say what current geekdom wants. And apparently its working too :/
Here comes the Aliens sequel with Hicks I guess. Dont expect me to be too surprised if it fucking blows and suddenly Alien 3 starts to suspiciously be more appreciated.
Ressurection can fuck off though. Made absolutely no sense whatsoever on any level.
Alien isnt about cozy alien killing family team moments. Its a bleak fucking universe where the good guys sooner or later inevitably loose.
Aliens instilled in us a sense of heroism and victory. Alien 3 knocked us right the fuck back into the dark, gothic and depressing reality of the Alienverse. One where it totally makes sense that the most we could hope for, was for Ripley to choose to go out on her own terms.
A3 was a bold fucking movie. Regardless of how it got there behind the scenes, it decided to give us a downbeat, lonely and dirty tale instead of the safe, crowd pleasing action team-up stuff Cameron's movie was obviously moving towards. It would never happen today and the sad part is that so many people seem to prefer the safe and expected. Thats why shit like The Avengers sets the box office on fire.
Whatever. Writting it off is a predictable bitch move by the same company that said Colonial Marines was canon. They dont give a fuck and just say what current geekdom wants. And apparently its working too :/
Here comes the Aliens sequel with Hicks I guess. Dont expect me to be too surprised if it fucking blows and suddenly Alien 3 starts to suspiciously be more appreciated.
Ressurection can fuck off though. Made absolutely no sense whatsoever on any level.
Couldn't agree more about Alien 3.
It's a great dark and bleak movie and it truly felt like this was the end of the road for Ripley. Not many movies with that kind of atmosphere.
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