BLOODBORNE Spoiler Thread (read OP)

Gr1mLock said:
Pshh. Speak for yourself. I've always been a filthy dex build. Being a glass cannon comes naturally to me.
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My first playthrough of Dark Souls was as a Thief. Boy did that ever teach me the love of dashes, rolls and especially the use of both into setup for backstab. I remember just standing in the first zone fighting the first few enemies till death over and over with no expectation of progress. I was just teaching myself how to fight, experimenting with what was possible. Like how I go into a new fighting games 100% expecting to lose my first fifty matches or so. The objective isn't to live. The objective is to get good. Frame counting, understanding of invincibility frames, I went completely nuts with it. When I was done, I was untouchable by humanoid enemies. Parry, Dodge, Parry, Roll, Backstab, Parry. All enemies are dead. Move on.

My friend who plays only pure two-hand strength builds could not believe my accuracy and speed with these mechanics.

You refine those skills in a relatively low stress environment, they'll save your bacon later when you're fighting something that's fucking terrifying. If I'd streamed that playthrough it would've been super boring though.

That was really fun riiiiiiiiight up to meeting the first enemies in the game that had no backstab opportunity. Then I got rekt. New training ensued. Repeat until Kiln of the First Flame.

I'll probably do the same thing in Bloodbourne.
 
Alo0oy said:
It's not a "step back", it's a different design decision, there's nothing inherently better about not having a hub (especially with the way it was handled in Demon's Souls, which progressed the story & had actual character development).
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I didn't say the hub was a step back, I said going to the hub to trigger respawn is a step back. And it is, immediate respawn versus two load screens is a step back, and if it was by design than it is a poor design.
 
koshunter said:
You had to farm for grass in Demon Souls too. I'm not really seeing the problem with farming for vials if you need them tbh.
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if your coming straight from dark souls.. which im sure the majority is (including me) then i can see why it would annoy them.

they will probably get over it once they git gud tho
 
RPGam3r said:
I didn't say the hub was a step back, I said going to the hub to trigger respawn is a step back. And it is, immediate respawn versus two load screens is a step back, and if it was by design than it is a poor design.
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Agreed. Simply going to a lamppost should retrigger spawns. Having to move to two destinations when some loading times are in the 40 sec range doesn't bode well with me. At least we have respawns now though! Something the Dark Souls 2 team thought was a bad idea.

BabyFaceKillah said:
if your coming straight from dark souls.. which im sure the majority is (including me) then i can see why it would annoy them.

they will probably get over it once they git gud tho
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Also that dude sounds like a cheapskate. 360 soul equivalents a piece? that's 7.2k for 20. Looking at the streams people were getting decent "money" drops in no time.
 
INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
Starting to waver off getting the collectors edition and just going digital. However I'm in a position where even if it releases smoothly on midnight, I won't have much time to play. Plus I really want my physical copy alongside my original Asian DeSo import, Near mint Black Phantom edition, and my DaSo collector's edition. Plus I'm running out of disk space!

Eh what the hell, I really want that soundtrack.
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I am likely to get both man..its inevitable...TT.TT
tears of joy
Ole-G said:
Question to the fellow hunters. Are you planning to go solo or summon other hunters ? I think I'll go solo but if I die too many times in one particular area, then I might seek some help.
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again the best answer is both...do all bosses solo a few times, then ifyou need more practice, go into other people's game and help them out on it. Kollect the rewards.
Alo0oy said:
That's legitimate criticism IMO, they need to either fix the long loading screens or put nice artwork instead of boring text.
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AS long as they dont spoil items and things like they did in DS1 and 2.

edit: For those wearly of spoilers and time not goign fast enough, Colossus 5 is down in my Pre-Bloodborne Spoiler and timekillin blind LTTP run of Shadow of the Colossus.
 
BabyFaceKillah said:
did they really take out respawn in DS2??
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tagging this incase anyone is getting ready for Scholar of The First Sin blind:

i think enemies had a kill counter; they wouldn't respawn after their number was hit until you entered NG+ or used an item to make all enemies in that section an equivalent to a NG+ area.
 
How the hell to play this during daylight?

My pad is bright and sunny and this amazing game seems permanently set in darkness.

Maybe tweaker curtains up on all the windows?
 
The blood vile complaints sound legit to me. Farming grass in DS was the worst. Going from Demon to Dark, I remember being blown away at the genius of the estus system as a way to normalize player healing capabilities. From should stick with or evolve that; not throw it away. It was an incredibly well thought out system compared to health potions.

It's not about what's easy/hard or 'get good.' With estus you can fine tune the difficulty by controlling the amount of estus shots a player is allowed to have. 1 Drink - hard. 50 - easy. Find a middle ground that well balances the game.

Everyone is going to have a boss that gives them trouble and will take more practice than normal. With estus, you are free to practice over and over without penalty until you overcome the challenge. I liken it to playing a super meat boy stage over and over. You die a ton of times but you don't feel bad about it because you can jump right back in without really being any worse off than where you started.

But with grass/blood, your character is actually getting worse with each attempt. And if it gets bad enough, you have to go waste an hour to even be permitted to try again. And that kind of frustration is not even close to fun. It's not the frustration of making a mistake and dying for it. It's similar to losing a save file and having to load a backup and replay the last hour. And its going to get a lot of legitimate hate in my opinion.
 
Primeau31 said:
tagging this incase anyone is getting ready for Scholar of The First Sin blind:

i think enemies had a kill counter; they wouldn't respawn after their number was hit until you entered NG+ or used an item to make all enemies in that section an equivalent to a NG+ area.
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Zaventem said:
Yeah, after killing something 15 times it disappears forever. They recently made a "fix" where you have to be in a certain covenant that makes your game harder to respawn the enemies.
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Wow lol so you really cant farm like in DS1

damn now im nervous about Scholar of the First sin
 
Ophelion said:
My first playthrough of Dark Souls was as a Thief. Boy did that ever teach me the love of dashes, rolls and especially the use of both into setup for backstab. I remember just standing in the first zone fighting the first few enemies till death over and over with no expectation of progress. I was just teaching myself how to fight, experimenting with what was possible. Like how I go into a new fighting games 100% expecting to lose my first fifty matches or so. The objective isn't to live. The objective is to get good. Frame counting, understanding of invincibility frames, I went completely nuts with it. When I was done, I was untouchable by humanoid enemies. Parry, Dodge, Parry, Roll, Backstab, Parry. All enemies are dead. Move on.

My friend who plays only pure two-hand strength builds could not believe my accuracy and speed with these mechanics.

You refine those skills in a relatively low stress environment, they'll save your bacon later when you're fighting something that's fucking terrifying. If I'd streamed that playthrough it would've been super boring though.

That was really fun riiiiiiiiight up to meeting the first enemies in the game that had no backstab opportunity. Then I got rekt. New training ensued. Repeat until Kiln of the First Flame.

I'll probably do the same thing in Bloodbourne.
Click to expand...

Figuring things out in Souls games has always been fun. I think the first 40 hours are like the pure hours. You get to take it all in and kind of figure out what you're dealing with. After that you just get invaded by Havels with soul level half a billon and then you have to figure out how to stave off savages who've put in 400 hours into a game that's only been out for half a week.
 
I actually think it's the other way around. You could stock grass and lifegems and it made healing way too easy. Never farmed for grass in Demon's and finished the game with tons. I also prefer Estus, but because in my opinion it's more challenging than stocking cheap lifegems.

So I like the Bloodborne system. They're usable items you can buy, sure, but there's a limit to the amount you can take with you, you can't buy 99 lifegems and carry them around everywhere.

EDIT: It's also true for any consumable in the game. If I take only two firebombs with me and I fail my Tokhi Bombs attempt at Bed of Chaos, RIP me. There's no "ooh, you died, here, take more firebombs". The Souls games were always like this, even when Estus were involved, they were only an exception to the system that dictated the entirety of the game.
 
Gbraga said:
I actually think it's the other way around. You could stock grass and lifegems and it made healing way too easy. Never farmed for grass in Demon's and finished the game with tons. I also prefer Estus, but because in my opinion it's more challenging than stocking cheap lifegems.

So I like the Bloodborne system. They're usable items you can buy, sure, but there's a limit to the amount you can take with you, you can't buy 99 lifegems and carry them around everywhere.
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I agree. Although I did not like the aspect in DS where you could easily increase Estus to 20 in the later parts of the game.

I hope the limit for blood vials stays at 20 or its difficult to increase. At the very least we know it heals a little amount.
 
slayn said:
But with grass/blood, your character is actually getting worse with each attempt. And if it gets bad enough, you have to go waste an hour to even be permitted to try again. And that kind of frustration is not even close to fun. It's not the frustration of making a mistake and dying for it. It's similar to losing a save file and having to load a backup and replay the last hour. And its going to get a lot of legitimate hate in my opinion.
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Agreed. Whats harder? Getting and replenishing 20 estus, or gettitng and replensihing 20 vials? Seeems to me, vials will incur less ability to heal for free than estus. Both are capped at 20...although I admit I heard rumblings that
runes
might affect the totoal...still I doubt its 50. I f I know Miyazaki, if he gives you extra vials from a
ring
it will be in the 3-5 range, not the 10+ range.

Citizen_Insane said:
I JUST GOT A VOICE MAIL THAT BLOODBORNE IS IN AND I CAN COME PICK IT UP
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Where damnit WHERE?
 
Psycho_Mantis said:
I agree. Although I did not like the aspect in DS where you could easily increase Estus to 20 in the later parts of the game.

I hope the limit for blood vials stays at 20 or its difficult to increase. At the very least we know it heals a little amount.
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Yeah, I agree. 20 is fine because it doesn't heal a lot, but 30 would already be waaaay too much.

2AdEPT said:
Whats harder? Getting and replenishing 20 estus, or gettitng and replensihing 20 vials? Seeems to me, vials will incur less ability to heal for free than estus. Both are capped at 20...although I admit I heard rumblings that
runes
might affect the totoal...still I doubt its 50. I f I know Miyazaki, if he gives you extra vials from a
ring
it will be in the 3-5 range, not the 10+ range.
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Estus also don't drop from enemies. You get the ocasional extra estus flask when someone kindles a bonfire near you, but you don't get so many that the game starts sending them to your storage box because you're full of them. I really can't see how Estus made it easier. It's the opposite, imo.
 
Gbraga said:
EDIT: It's also true for any consumable in the game. If I take only two firebombs with me and I fail my Tokhi Bombs attempt at Bed of Chaos, RIP me. There's no "ooh, you died, here, take more firebombs". The Souls games were always like this, even when Estus were involved, they were only an exception to the system that dictated the entirety of the game.
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And I would argue a better design would give all consumables a kind of estus/dark souls magic treatment. But for something like firebombs it isn't that big a deal because healing/magic were a critical core of the game design while firebombs are not.
 
BabyFaceKillah said:
Wow lol so you really cant farm like in DS1

damn now im nervous about Scholar of the First sin
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It's not as bad as you think. You'll actually be leveling up faster than in Dark Souls 1, and I think the game is easier overall. 15 respawns for each individual enemy is more than enough, even if you make mistakes (although with the new enemy placement, IDK, but I'm guessing you'll be fine).
 
slayn said:
And I would argue a better design would give all consumables a kind of estus/dark souls magic treatment. But for something like firebombs it isn't that big a deal because healing/magic were a critical core of the game design while firebombs are not.
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Well, it's consistent with your opinion, I guess, but I strongly disagree.

The way it was in Dark Souls was perfect imo, but if I had to choose between everything replenishing and everything being consumable, I'd choose consumable any day.

Soriku said:
It's not as bad as you think. You'll actually be leveling up faster than in Dark Souls 1, and I think the game is easier overall. 15 respawns for each individual enemy is more than enough, even if you make mistakes.
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This is another point that I think the exact opposite, I don't think it makes the game more difficult because you can't farm (we're talking about a series where you can deal massive damage at SL1 with the right weapon, after all), it actually makes the path to the boss a lot easier if you die too much. You get rewarded for sucking with an easier time in that part.

Not being able to farm doesn't really make any difference.
 
people getting it early (without being a reviewer of a sort) = pure unfairness
 
Gbraga said:
Yeah, I agree. 20 is fine because it doesn't heal a lot, but 30 would already be waaaay too much.



Estus also don't drop from enemies. You get the ocasional extra estus flask when someone kindles a bonfire near you, but you don't get so many that the game starts sending them to your storage box because you're full of them. I really can't see how Estus made it easier. It's the opposite, imo.
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Estus vs Potions isn't about easier vs harder. Estus has a normalizing effect on the player base. Grass/Potion systems heavily punish players who are weaker at the game. A weaker player is going to find the game dramatically easier with estus. A strong player is heavily rewarded with abundant healing by potion/grass systems. A stronger player is going to find the game harder with estus. That's why the normalizing effect of estus is so genius.
 
slayn said:
Estus vs Potions isn't about easier vs harder. Estus has a normalizing effect on the player base. Grass/Potion systems heavily punish players who are weaker at the game. A weaker player is going to find the game dramatically easier with estus. A strong player is heavily rewarded with abundant healing by potion/grass systems. A stronger player is going to find the game harder with estus. That's why the normalizing effect of estus is so genius.
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You know what, that makes a lot of sense.
 
About to fire up some Demon's Souls and play that all the way until Tuesday. Can't wait for my guide and Collector's edition to get here. Hopefully Amazon sends my game a day early like they usually do. lol
 
slayn said:
Estus vs Potions isn't about easier vs harder. Estus has a normalizing effect on the player base. Grass/Potion systems heavily punish players who are weaker at the game. A weaker player is going to find the game dramatically easier with estus. A strong player is heavily rewarded with abundant healing by potion/grass systems. A stronger player is going to find the game harder with estus. That's why the normalizing effect of estus is so genius.
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You have to take into account the amount healed which i assume is percent based since have no upgrade system and it's the main way of healing or balanced out by a specific droprate with a set heal. One estus sip is nearly a full bar at +15 and someone stated that the lamppost do not respawn enemies nor refill your heal potions. So you also have to take into account distance covered to compare it finding a bonfire which refills everything but also respawns. Also the natural cap of 20 but the healing is much less, the only thing i could compare it to after looking at videos of it being used is one of the weaker grasses in demon's souls.
 
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