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"The Power of the Cloud" - what happened?

OdysseusVA said:
They should have leaned on the multiplayer aspect of it. I'm a believer after playing Titanfall.
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That right there.
Plus awesome content delivery, DVR to Onecloud and Driveatars in Forza Games (total game changer if you race in SP).
These are only the first couple of use cases.
There are so many PSN problems, that making fun of MS (in this case) is just dumb.
 
BobTheFork said:
When Titanfall 2 barely runs on PS4, that's when you'll all see.
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jags.gif
 
The message was poorly received and MS didn't have anything but talk, so they dropped it. I think it was a poor counterpoint to the PS4 being more powerful.

I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaces in some way when they start to show off Crackdown. And I doubt Crackdown is their only major server-side processing project.
 
Ayato Kanzaki said:
Only game data, but if you want it to be a signifiant, noticeable improvement for the game graphics, you'll have to use a lot of bandwidth anyway. Or else we're speaking about the kind of things the console would do well enough on it's own.
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Not everything is about graphics, and the potential of server-side processing is certainly elsewhere...
 
kadotsu said:
Announcing stuff is easy, executing is hard. Just ask Peter Molyneux. I'll change my opinion once the game is out and has delivered.
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But the game is designed around the cloud. I mean the co-developers are called Cloudgine. It's not the same as saying "you can plant an acorn and it'll turn into a tree." This isn't so much of a gameplay feature, more of a fundamental one to the entire game. It would be insane to lie like that.
 
If Crackdown`s cloud engine is online required, Xbox One could might as well have been released as some streaming device like Onlive.
 
Rembrandt said:
But the game is designed around the cloud. I mean the co-developers are called Cloudgine. It's not the same as saying "you can plant an acorn and it'll turn into a tree." This isn't so much of a gameplay feature, more of a fundamental one to the entire game. It would be insane to lie like that.
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*cough* SimCity *cough*
 
leeh said:
Really looking forward to Crackdown, I feel like that's the make or break moment for them. If cloudgine are developing an engine for these sorts of applications, it'd be great if this was released commercially after and incorporated into other engines.

Also, why do people ignore the practical example which was posted and continue to post 'lies'? We know its possible, just very costly/time consuming to implement. I suppose Crackdown will be essentially a business case for other devs.
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That is Cloudgine's business model. They are creating a tool for devs to purchase/license that abstracts the use of distributed remote computational resources. I think they are adding it to UE as we speak.
 
Gamezone said:
If Crackdown`s cloud engine is online required, Xbox One could might as well have been released as some streaming device like Onlive.
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This shows a complete and utter misunderstanding/ignorance of cloud based physics/AI/etc.. in relation to a local game.

Ugh
 
JaggedSac said:
That is Cloudgine's business model. They are creating a tool for devs to purchase/license that abstracts the use of distributed remote computational resources. I think they are adding it to UE as we speak.
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Oh, I didn't know this. Hopefully its really something great. That makes me giddy that there's work already adding it to UE. If Crackdowns a success, I can imagine seeing a lot of it in future games.

Next big question is, I wonder if it only works on Azure? If not, then you could full well see the same things on the PS4.
 
Alx said:
That's true, but part of the benefit of more recent "cloud" services is that those servers are allocated dynamically depending on the requirements.
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This has only direct advantages for the provider and renter though.
And for sure this isn't what they hyped up/what people fell for.
 
Wait for Crackdown? That's supposed to be using the cloud to off load massive realtime destruction is it no?

Surely that's the sensible thing to do?
 
leeh said:
Oh, I didn't know this. Hopefully its really something great. That makes me giddy that there's work already adding it to UE. If Crackdowns a success, I can imagine seeing a lot of it in future games.

Next big question is, I wonder if it only works on Azure? If not, then you could full well see the same things on the PS4.
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I am sure they are utilizing the IaaS aspect of Azure instead of the PaaS. That way this stuff can be deployed on any cloud service that lets you dynamically allocate VMs. Most big ones do.
 
AmFreak said:
That would have been nothing new - dedicated server's and bots on them exist since the dawn of time.
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It's not just dedicated servers though. It's a host of services they can spool up, anywhere in any data centre. dynamically. There is a huge difference. Large scale enterprise companies and midsized companies that can buy these services are embracing distributed computing. It is the future. However, most of Gaf lol's at the buzz words and assumes that Sony's renting of Rackspace is the same as Xbox live on Azure.
 
kadotsu said:
*cough* SimCity *cough*
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Was SimCity ever really advertised as using cloud computing or did that excuse pop up when people started attributing the always online stuff to DRM?

I mean, Microsoft already showed off that demo where they destructed the building and stuff, there's that gif on the former page, etc. Crackdown seems specifically designed around it, at least a lot more so than SimCity. Pessimists gonna be pessimists, though
 
AmFreak said:
This has only direct advantages for the provider and renter though.
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Yes, but with the indirect benefit of having a better service for the user. Most EA online games had terrible server quality at launch, Titanfall didn't.

AmFreak said:
And for sure this isn't what they hyped up/what people fell for.
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That depends a lot on what people "fell for". PR know their job, they just throw vague terms knowing people may misunderstand them. Did MS explicitly say the cloud could fill the power gap with the competition ? No. Do people believe they did ? Of course.
 
watership said:
It's not just dedicated servers though. It's a host of services they can spool up, anywhere in any data centre. dynamically. There is a huge difference. Large scale enterprise companies and midsized companies that can buy these services are embracing distributed computing. It is the future. However, most of Gaf lol's at the buzz words and assumes that Sony's renting of Rackspace is the same as Xbox live on Azure.
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This. More people need to read it
 
They don't need the cloud. Microsoft is making it rain with games instead.

It's raining games, Hallelujah, it's raining games, Amen. It's raining games, Hallelujah, it's raining games, Amen. It's raining games, Hallelujah, it's raining games, Amen
 
JaggedSac said:
I am sure they are utilizing the IAAS aspect of Azure instead of the PAAS. That way this stuff can be deployed on any cloud service that lets you dynamically allocated VMs. Most big ones do.
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Worded my post badly, rather than tech and capacity I more so meant the business around it. Would there be a clause for it to only use Azure? In addition, localisation and resource is huge for using cloud in this application. I haven't looked around Amazon aws recently, are they as localised as MS are?
 
I think they realized it doesn't make any sense to talk about it unless they have something to show. When the XB1 launched it felt like (to me, I shouldn't have to point out that this is opinion but in these kinds of threads it seems safer to make that clear) that they were putting a basic foundation in place and hoping there would be enough tools for devs to do cool stuff as opposed to a fully fleshed out and polished product and infrastructure and that really bit them hard.

What many take to have been outright lies I took as more future looking optimism. Most things that 'fail' within MS seem to show up elsewhere later on and aren't necessarily called by the same name. It seemed like they were glomming on to the general consumer acceptance of 'the cloud' terminology, but there were no specifics to point to and now it seems that they are waiting till they are, though I wonder if it will be presented differently. You can see how negatively it is even still looked at here. Even if there is a difference of opinion you can tell most don't even like the mention of it.

This might me reading too much into it, but a lot of these comments make me thing that some posters think that MS knowing lied about the cloud, never intended that it would have any impact, assumed that consumers are actually stupid and would just believe any technobabble that they made up and have some deeper nefarious plan behind it all. I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth, but that is simply the impression that many of these posts have given me. I have a hard time feeling that cynical about it though.
 
WarpathDC said:
Wait until crackdown!

PR bullshit
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So you're saying Crackdown isn't utilizing cloud services for their destruction physics? Or that MS is lying about it? I mean if they're literally doing what they said they could do with it I don't see how that's pr bullshit..
 
didn't the Always-Online reversals fuck them over with lots of the cloud stuff? also, what happens to singleplayer games like Crackdown when the connection is lost, do those games stop working?
 
watership said:
It's not just dedicated servers though. It's a host of services they can spool up, anywhere in any data centre. dynamically. There is a huge difference. Large scale enterprise companies and midsized companies that can buy these services are embracing distributed computing. It is the future. However, most of Gaf lol's at the buzz words and assumes that Sony's renting of Rackspace is the same as Xbox live on Azure.
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QTF
 
Alx said:
That depends a lot on what people "fell for". PR know their job, they just throw vague terms knowing people may misunderstand them. Did MS explicitly say the cloud could fill the power gap with the competition ? No. Do people believe they did ? Of course.
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But they did say more than that.

Using the infinite power of the cloud they said the Xbox One is 40 times greater than a not connected Xbox One compared to the 360.

Hans.Gruber said:
QTF
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What about your listed examples can't be done with any hoster in existance?

---

And then using a banned poster that was banned for deception about working at Cloudgine is used as evidence that the power of the cloud is real. This thread is embarrassing.
 
Goodacre0081 said:
didn't the Always-Online reversals fuck them over with lots of the cloud stuff? also, what happens to singleplayer games like Crackdown when the connection is lost, do those games stop working?
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According to the guy that made that gif on the last page, devs code twice for offline/online, iirc. which probably means that Crackdown will be always online because that seems like too much of a hassle.
 
The marketing nonsense blew up in their faces while consumers pointed and gave it a good bollocking. We know what dedicated servers are, and all the doublespeak in the world from Harrison, Penello and company was nothing compared to the facts.
 
Goodacre0081 said:
didn't the Always-Online reversals fuck them over with lots of the cloud stuff? also, what happens to singleplayer games like Crackdown when the connection is lost, do those games stop working?
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That's a good question. I hope they address that at E3. Maybe it reverts to a more simple built-in destruction system? I hope it doesn't just kick you out of the game like Diablo 3.
 
watership said:
It's not just dedicated servers though. It's a host of services they can spool up, anywhere in any data centre. dynamically. There is a huge difference. Large scale enterprise companies and midsized companies that can buy these services are embracing distributed computing. It is the future. However, most of Gaf lol's at the buzz words and assumes that Sony's renting of Rackspace is the same as Xbox live on Azure.
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The leaked SDK has some interesting information about how the multiplayer stuff utilizes azure to handle matchmaking and the usage of compute resources.
 
benny_a said:
And then using a banned poster that was banned for deception about working at Cloudgine is used as evidence that the power of the cloud is real. This thread is embarrassing.
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Oh man those were good times, I remember it like it was 2 weeks ago
 
benny_a said:
But they did say more than that.

Using the infinite power of the cloud they said the Xbox One is 40 times greater than a not connected Xbox One compared to the 360.
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And I'm sure it's true, in a way. Only it doesn't say much actually, because there are many ways to measure "power". They don't even mention for how long that power boost lasts, is it continuous ? At peak ?
Let's say I use a crappy smartphone to use Shazam ; it sends a sound bite to be analyzed by a powerful server, and for the duration of that task it's like my phone is 100 times more powerful, because it would take it 100 more time to do it on its own. So it's true that the "cloud" added a big boost of power to my phone. It doesn't really mean I have the equivalent of 100 phones in my pocket though.

I don't know exactly what kind of benefit we'll get from the cloud in the end. I'm sure there is, because they're obviously working on it. I believe there's some truth to whatever they say, because they're smart enough to avoid blatant lies. But I also doubt things are as simple and perfect one would want to believe when hearing "40 times more powerful".
 
Its still there... and its barely been 3 years yet. We all know that Crackdown is coming out in a year or two and we all know that game heavily utilizes Azure. A couple other as well if you go from devs on GAF who tease their games. Plus going off of what people on GAF are saying (don't have any first hand experience yet myself) Xbox Live seems to be doing way better than PSN for the time being.
 
Alx said:
And I'm sure it's true, in a way. Only it doesn't say much actually, because there are many ways to measure "power". They don't even mention for how long that power boost lasts, is it continuous ? At peak ?
Let's say I use a crappy smartphone to use Shazam ; it sends a sound bite to be analyzed by a powerful server, and for the duration of that task it's like my phone is 100 times more powerful. So it's true that the "cloud" added a big boost of power to my phone. It doesn't really mean I have the equivalent of 100 phones in my pocket.

I don't exactly know what kind of benefit we'll get from the cloud in the end. I'm sure there is, because they're obviously working on it. I believe there's some truth to whatever they say, because they're smart enough to avoid blatant lies. But I also doubt things are as simple and perfect one would want to believe when hearing "40 times more powerful".
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You're just making excuses for deliberate misleading statements being made.

When you say in the same sentence: The Xbox One is 10 times as powerful as the Xbox 360, but when Internet connected is 40 times as powerful; then you are misleading and no amount of special pleading or arguing semantics is going to fly with me.

Anyway, this discussion has been had a hundred times. I merely wanted to point out that they did make those comparisons and this wasn't collectively imagined by NeoGAF.

Hans.Gruber said:
It's not about what can or can't be done on paper, it's about how well it works in the real world. You can look at the GAF page 1 the next couple of weeks and count how many threads are about PSN problems vs. XBL problems.
"Power of the cloud" is marketing BS. MS having a way superior online infrastructure than the competition should be common knowledge.
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But this thread was about "The Power of the Cloud" as it was marketed in 2013. So when you post about all the amazing things you can do with web space, then I assume you are mega excited for the power of the cloud instead of thinking it's bullshit.
 
benny_a said:
What about your listed examples can't be done with any hoster in existance?
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It's not about what can or can't be done on paper, it's about how well it works in the real world. You can look at the GAF page 1 the next couple of weeks and count how many threads are about PSN problems vs. XBL problems.
"Power of the cloud" is marketing BS. MS having a way superior online infrastructure than the competition should be common knowledge.
 
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