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[flohen95]

My biggest issue with this game isn't that I don't think this will be good. But because it was false advertising to an insane degree.

If someone told me Intelligence Systems and Atlus were working together on a new game, I'd be far more receptive of this.

But this was billed as SMT x FE. The teaser was just listing off FE and SMT characters. They even used Tamaki for gods sake.

That's just a level of disingenuous behavior that hurts

I was watching the trailer and, while I always thought "Wait a second. Goddamn. Is this it?" I wouldn't even have been sure of it if Shibata (I was watching the European stream) hadn't confirmed it afterwards. And yeah, it doesn't really have a lot to do with the initial teaser. Barely anything, in fact.

The thing is though, not only does this excite me even more, it's also kinda obvious why it happened this way: In January 2013, I assume this game was, and this kinda confirms that, in early planning stages. They just wanted to get some hype going because Wii U wasn't selling as they had wished it would. They later realized that, which is why we didn't have a blowout like that since, and why some games were announced way to early, like SMTxFE.

In the planning, things must have gotten interesting, and they decided to do it differently. What we are looking at today is basically not the same game that we were promised, but and evolution of it based on the premise of what the originally planned to do. I don't have a problem with that, and a lot of games change drastically in the early phases of development. The biggest problem ist that they announced it back then, which was way to early. I totally understand your frustration in that regard.

I look forward for what they have in mind. It's a lot more exiting than a crossover that's playing it safe, but I can see why a lot of people would have rather wanted that, especially with the early teaser they gave us, which in the end ended up being pretty much unrelated and meaningless.

 

[AlbionHero]

I actually wonder if they went the opposite direction for Japanese appeal? Apparently Westerners favour brooding, dark RPGs. And which company encouraged the decision?

JRPGs in general normally go with whatever is popular in anime at the time since they are the same demographics. The standard SMT stuff was a type of anime theme that was more prevalent during the 90s... while idols, cute high school girls and the other stuff in the trailer feels a lot more like 10's anime. They're just going with what the market wants now.

 

[zennyzz]

it's the first trailer lol
We'll got more down the line, no need to worry

The first trailer of what was billed as a smt x fe cross over with only the barest minimum even suggesting anything of either series that might as well just be called easter egss.

First trailer or not, this is a horrible first impression on folks who were expecting something and didn't get it.

 

[zogged]

That's actually from Devil Survivor 2 and 1, and it's the same team handling this game apparently.

DS1, in spite of the bright "Anime" character design, actually had a storyline very close to mainline SMT. In fact, storywise, DS1 is probably the closest thing to a modernized SMT 1.

DS2 had a storyline with a main premise similar to Nocturne or Strange Journey in some ways, but it focused much more on light hearted character interactions, leading to a very different overall atmosphere, in spite of the events happening there.

DS1 and 2 had different script writers though, so I guess the writer here would tell a lot about the direction they're taking this game.

Ok that explains the similarity in character designs and the direction they're taking. Anyone know how popular the Devil Survivor games ended up being?

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

I don't see how thats really relevant. I was upset at first seeing Persona turned into little chibi characters... but we're talking about using a normal anime artstyle with high school and Tokyo themes here. Its pretty much a setting that wouldn't feel outlandish for a Persona game unlike Persona Q or Persona Dancing.

Whatever, I won't argue about relevancy of that right now, but it still remains that if this was announced as Persona 5, the general response would have been negative.

 

[noshten]

You can't spoiler tag an image

Pity,
I really like to spoiler tag images

 

[Shengar]

Ok that explains the similarity in character designs and the direction they're taking. Anyone know how popular the Devil Survivor games ended up being?

Not as good as any other SMT spinoffs IIRC.

 

[Pepin]

What if this is just a SMT game with character and monster permadeath? What if that is where this persona-esque game gets its FE inspiration. Think about how different a game Persona would be if you got to play as dozens of kids from the high school class but they're permanently gone when they die. Would have amazing story and works implications.

I don't think this is what the trailer is hinting at, but this is what you've gotten me really excited for now

 

[Squire]

The first trailer of what was billed as a smt x fe cross over with only the barest minimum even suggesting anything of either series that might as well just be called easter egss.

First trailer or not, this is a horrible first impression on folks who were expecting something and didn't get it.

There's plenty of FE stuff in the trailer, as pointed out by a few posters in this thread.

 

[AlbionHero]

Whatever, I won't argue about relevancy of that right now, but it still remains that if this was announced as Persona 5, the general response would have been negative.

Maybe it still would be a little negative, I'm just saying it would be better then this current reception. People expected some really dark SMT style game and they get a Persona esque title with fanservice, so the gap in expectations is far bigger. As a huge Persona 3/4 fan whos never cared about the other SMT games though it looks amazing to me.

 

[Hugstable]

Not as good as any other SMT spinoffs IIRC.

Ehh I find it better than Devil Summoners series at least. I really enjoyed DeSu1 and it's probably my 3rd favorite Megami Tensei franchise with SMT mainline being first and Persona second.

 

[Coxswain]

People go into Persona games knowing they are high school dating sim + dungeon crawling RPG so none of this stuff would be so out of place... people just had a different expectation here.

A pretty significant chunk of the fanbase for modern Persona games doesn't view the 'real world' portions of those games as a "dating sim", but rather as a relatively fleshed-out, in-game representation of mundane everyday life that contrasts against the more fantastical magical/superpower stuff that you do inside the dungeons. The appeal is in the duality; it's the same reason that Spider-Man stories often give half the screentime to Peter Parker.

From that perspective, the anime-style "dating sim" parts are just a small(, maybe shitty, occasionally pretty gross) component that you just grit your teeth and power through because there isn't another franchise out there that's willing to spend so much time on the quotidian aspects of an RPG hero's life.

 

[James Scott]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but I'm guessing this game has a pretty big musical component to it.
The "hashtag" on the title is actually a sharp, which is music related, and there is a concert present in several scenes in the trailer.
Maybe they are normal teenagers by day and something like crime fighting rock stars by night?

 

[Shengar]

Ehh I find it better than Devil Summoners series at least. I really enjoyed DeSu1 and it's probably my 3rd favorite Megami Tensei franchise with SMT mainline being first and Persona second.

No, I dont mean quality-wise since DeSu games is very good, but rather sales-wise where their perfomance isn't good at all.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but I'm guessing this game has a pretty big musical component to it.
The "hashtag" on the title is actually a sharp, which is music related, and there is a concert present in several scenes in the trailer.
Maybe they are normal teenagers by day and something like crime fighting rock stars by night?

Yeah, it's been discussed. There are a lot more examples, such as the idol posters, the fact that the characters are called "Artist" when attacking, the "Session" label for attack combos, etc.

 

[bomblord1]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but I'm guessing this game has a pretty big musical component to it.
The "hashtag" on the title is actually a sharp, which is music related, and there is a concert present in several scenes in the trailer.
Maybe they are normal teenagers by day and something like crime fighting rock stars by night?

I don't think that's quite it but I do think music will play a large part in the story. The fact that one guy was doing a "super hero show" in part of the trailer makes me think it's staged in some way. They're also on a stage with people surrounding them on all sides in several scenes which would be a very weird place to bust a crime.

 

[NeonZ]

But this was billed as SMT x FE. The teaser was just listing off FE and SMT characters. They even used Tamaki for gods sake.

That's just a level of disingenuous behavior that hurts

FE characters still seem to be in, but,yes, even putting aside the stylistic differences, there seems to be no actual connection to SMT's mythology/cast at all, and the official site's words make it seems like we're going to get more FE elements shown later, but doesn't say anything about SMT ones.

 

[AlbionHero]

A pretty significant chunk of the fanbase for modern Persona games doesn't view the 'real world' portions of those games as a "dating sim", but rather as a relatively fleshed-out, in-game representation of mundane everyday life that contrasts against the more fantastical magical/superpower stuff that you do inside the dungeons. The appeal is in the duality; it's the same reason that Spider-Man stories often give half the screentime to Peter Parker.

From that perspective, the anime-style "dating sim" parts are just a small(, maybe shitty, occasionally pretty gross) component that you just grit your teeth and power through because there isn't another franchise out there that's willing to spend so much time on the quotidian aspects of an RPG hero's life.

Well I certainly don't think modern Persona games would be so incredibly well received if people didn't like the dating sim part. It takes basic dating sim gameplay (picking what you'll do each day in the day, afternoon, evening and raising your social/knowledge stats and getting social links with people) and adds RPG gameplay... I don't really see any other way to describe it unless you're trying to ignore that its a dating sim RPG at heart. Add in the fact that you play a teen boy surrounded by girls who all have an interest in him and its easy to see what a big part of the games appeal is.

Remove the dating sim part and you just have another dungeon crawler RPG that doesn't see anywhere near the same kind of popularity.

 

[Palculator]

FE characters still seem to be in, but,yes, even putting aside the stylistic differences, there seems to be no actual connection to SMT's mythology/cast at all.

This better have a Jack Frost in there somewhere.

Spoiler

ho

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Remove the dating sim part and you just have another dungeon crawler RPG that doesn't see anywhere near the same kind of popularity.

Why is a game like Conception II not more popular than it is?

 

[bomblord1]

Well I certainly don't think modern Persona games would be so incredibly well received if people didn't like the dating sim part. It takes basic dating sim gameplay (picking what you'll do each day in the day, afternoon, evening and raising your social/knowledge stats and getting social links with people) and adds RPG gameplay... I don't really see any other way to describe it unless you're trying to ignore that its an RPG dating sim at heart. Add in the fact that you play a teen boy surrounded by girls who all have an interest in him and its easy to see what a big part of the games appeal is.

Remove the dating sim part and you just have another dungeon crawler RPG that doesn't see anywhere near the same kind of popularity.

I think you're confusing "dating sim" with "life sim" or an ADV visual novel.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

This is not what I wanted, I'm getting off this hype train at the next stop...

 

[AlbionHero]

Why is a game like Conception II not more popular than it is?

Well from a design perspective its not a very good game. It doesn't even have the dating sim part... All you do is talk to characters inbetween dungeon crawls instead of raising your social skills and deciding what to do each day. And the characters aren't as well developed, and the battle system is crap.

Its like saying because Bloodborne is popular all action RPGs should be popular.

 

[chadboban]

Yeah, it's been discussed. There are a lot more examples, such as the idol posters, the fact that the characters are called "Artist" when attacking, the "Session" label for attack combos, etc.

And I've noticed that the characters images appear on the screens surrounding the arena when they're attacking.

I can't wait to see more. I really want to hear more of the soundtrack as well

 

[AlbionHero]

I think you're confusing "dating sim" with "life sim" or an ADV visual novel.

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_sim

The technical definition of a dating simulation game, known as a romantic simulation game in Japan, can involve several technical elements such as a time limit, several statistics such as looks and charm which can be boosted through exercise, or an "attraction meter" which can increase or decrease depending on one's decisions.

Sounds pretty much like Personas daily life, no? ADV VNs are a different beast since they don't have the dating sim gameplay part of them.

 

[Lehow]

I'll be honest here, since the beginning I knew that this game wouldn't be your traditional Fire Emblem. I read the interviews with the Intelligent System guys and noticed that would be in a modern setting. However, my body wasn't ready for this. When I was anticipating, this game, I thought it would be a 'dark' Persona setting(Shin Megami Tensei) with more Fire Emblem gameplay. When I saw the trailer yesterday I was completely speechless. What the heck did I just watch? Idols, moe, fanservice: every flag that can turn me off from a game raised and not the tone I'd imagined, but after a couple of rewatches the game is starting to growing on me. The little of gameplay showed looks solid and so do some little snippets from the story, like the apocalyptic Tokyo part. I'll just keep my mind open and wait for more information, as some people already said it is difficulty to remember the last bad game Atlus developed.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Is that... demi-fiend Marth?

That's like the only thing I would recognise as being an SMT/FE collab. I need to see waaaay more of this game ASAP.

 

[plebegamer]

I'm actually new to both Persona and Fire Emblem, having recently picked up my first of each just months ago. PSP version of Persona 3 and Virtual Console version of Fire Emblem Rekka no Ken. I've enjoyed both so far, though I've run into the hump where it feels too grindy and need to power through eventually.

I'd only heard of SMT and that it was supposedly dark. Then I saw this trailer.

Does that trailer shows high school children fighting enemies to the death in a Neo-Tokyo version of the Colosseum, while an audience cheers for blood? It certainly looks like there's a raucous crowd just watching them fight and cheering it on.

My brain defaulted to Battle Royale type events being put on during the game's equivalent of the Dark Hour. Of course that's a big leap, but the crowds are there watching kids battle at different venues. It's probably because I'm tired of typical idol fluff and would love the game to take a dark swerve despite being bright and filled with upbeat J-pop.

 

[Guess Who]

I think you're confusing "dating sim" with "life sim" or an ADV visual novel.

Yeah, you could remove the ability to romance the female characters and it'd still have 90% of the same appeal.

Persona's life elements were never meant to be a "dating sim", being able to romance other characters just happens to be part of what you can do in the life sim. The actual design goal of the system (Persona 3 spoilers)

Spoiler

was to create a time-management system where you had to find the most meaningful way to spend your time each day, whether that's hanging out with a friend or going to karaoke or romancing a girl, to tie back in to the game's central theme of living your life to the fullest, because you're going to die at the end.

 

[randomkid]

If they don't add in Megaten demons or spell names (which actually seems quite possible at this point) then I don't see how this is actually a Megaten game at all. It will end up being something more equivalent to Maken X or Trauma Center or Catherine. Kind of weird for something that initially had the words Shin Megami Tensei as top billing.

 

[ActuallyHulk]

I'm going with the idea that everything being all happy is a fake world that they don't realize they're living inside and then they wake up to a destroyed world in an idea similar to

Spoiler

Digital Devil Saga. Not that anything in that game was happy but yeah.

If not then hey it's still it's own thing that might be good.

 

[zennyzz]

There's plenty of FE stuff in the trailer, as pointed out by a few posters in this thread.

Did you purposefully stop reading before the "Amount to easter eggs" part?

 

[bomblord1]

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_sim



Sounds pretty much like Personas daily life, no? ADV VNs are a different beast since they don't have the dating sim gameplay part of them.

ADV novels can certainly have them so can life sim games. The majority of the game has nothing to do with dating and you can flat out refuse to date anyone. Having the ability to woo a girl does not automatically make a game a dating sim.

Even by your link the very definition of a dating sim are a

... subgenre of simulation games, usually Japanese, with romantic elements.... The most common objective of dating sims is to date, usually choosing from among several characters, and to achieve a romantic relationship.

That is not the point of any part of persona's life section in fact the actual boyfriends/girlfriends are a sub plot of a sub plot and they don't even influence the story in any meaningful capacity.

Do you consider a rune factory a dating sim?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Well from a design perspective its not a very good game. It doesn't even have the dating sim part... All you do is talk to characters inbetween dungeon crawls instead of raising your social skills and deciding what to do each day. And the characters aren't as well developed, and the battle system is crap.

Its like saying because Bloodborne is popular all action RPGs should be popular.

So, to you, the day-by-day structure of Persona 3 and Persona 4 are "dating sim elements," in addition to raising a character's personality attributes and other daily decisions.

Yeah... I think this is why people are taking issue with what you're saying, and why I think you're fundamentally wrong about the Persona fanbase. These are not concepts inherent to dating sims. People do not mainly like Persona because they are able to date the girls. You don't even need to date anyone in Persona 4, even if you choose to engage with the Social Link system.

When you mention stuff like the battle system being crap and the characters not being well developed... well, those are the sorts of elements that set Persona apart from other games. The discussion is kind of pointless, though: there have been several Persona fans here who are telling you that they wouldn't be happy if this was Persona 5.

 

[AlbionHero]

ADV novels can certainly have them so can life sim games. The majority of the game has nothing to do with dating and you can flat out refuse to date anyone. Having the ability to woo a girl does not automatically make a game a dating sim.

Even by your link the very definition of a dating sim are a



That is not the point of any part of persona in fact the actual relations are a sub plot of a sub plot and they don't even influence the story in any meaningful capacity.

Do you consider a rune factory a dating sim?

Rune Factory does have dating sim elements.

And you're right, Persona isn't an exact representation of a dating sim... but it does take the classic dating sim gameplay thats an established genre in Japan and added it to an RPG. The daily life style of gameplay in it has been done for 20+ years in Japanese dating sims.

 

[EMT0]

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_sim



Sounds pretty much like Personas daily life, no? ADV VNs are a different beast since they don't have the dating sim gameplay part of them.

Here's the kicker though. The romance? Completely optional in Persona 4 and unexistant in 1 or either IS or EP. The only game that locks you into romance by completing social links is Persona 3, and you can avoid them entirely if you want by either avoiding those social links, or not maxing them.

If I could smack every fool that calls Persona a dating sim....I'd gladly take away any possibility of dating from Persona. It's literally doing the writing of the games a disservice, especially when, what, a quarter of the social links, tops, even give you the option in Persona 4?

 

[Coxswain]

Remove the dating sim part and you just have another dungeon crawler RPG that doesn't see anywhere near the same kind of popularity.

Take Persona 3 and/or 4, then remove every element of romance or dating from every single S-Link, and (if necessary) shore them all up into full S-Link stories about non-romantic, non-magical, human-to-human interactions and relationships that could plausibly happen to the average person in the real world.

That's not a dating sim, and it's not just another dungeon crawler. And that's more or less what a lot of people would like to see out of the series.

 

[balohna]

Yeah it pretty much looks like a Persona game. I'm down, but it would have been neat to see a darker style SMT mainline vibe tie in with FE.

 

[bomblord1]

Rune Factory does have dating sim elements.

And you're right, Persona isn't an exact representation of a dating sim... but it does take the classic dating sim gameplay thats an established genre in Japan and added it to an RPG. The daily life style of gameplay in it has been done for 20+ years in Japanese dating sims.

Dating sims are a sub-genre of life sims not the other way around.

If Dating sims are squares then Life sims are Rectangles.

All the elements of a life sim (ex time managemen, increasing skills, and social interaction) are present in dating sims but not necessarily the other way around. Just like all squares have 4 right angles and 4 straight sides but not all rectangles have 4 sides equal in length. If I have another shape with 4 right angles and 4 straight sides (or time management and social interaction) then it's a type of rectangle (life sim) not a type of square (dating sim).

It's borrowing elements of life sims which is an established genre that dating sims branched off of not dating sims.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I'm going with the idea that everything being all happy is a fake world that they don't realize they're living inside and then they wake up to a destroyed world in an idea similar to

Spoiler

Digital Devil Saga. Not that anything in that game was happy but yeah.

If not then hey it's still it's own thing that might be good.

That'd be really interesting, and the kind of subversion I've been referring to. All this happy-go-lucky, idol and high school stuff is a facade, while what their world truly is, is this:

Not sure if that's what they're setting up, but something like it would be compelling.

 

[ispendtoomuchmoneyongames]

To be honest I enjoyed this trailer way more than anything I could possibly imagine.

I had been thinking Fire Emblem characters in an SMT setting and battle system or a new SMT story in a Fire Emblem setting/style and battle system. This blew those ideas out of the water. I didn't want SMT shoehorned into Fire Emblem or vice versa, this seems like a completely new thing using elements of both games (FE characters, possible SMT setting). Way better than doing a Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright type of thing.

 

[kiryogi]

I really am debating if I should post an analysis thread, if folks would only pay attention, there is so much FE in here its pretty blatant. While the SMN or Megaten does seem like mostly the modern/post apocalypse Tokyo and aesthetic. But really, the amount of virtrol and ignorance in this thread from supposed "fans" of both of the series is absolutely amazing.

 

[AlbionHero]

Dating sims are a sub-genre of life sims not the other way around.

If Dating sims are squares then Life sims are Rectangles.

All the elements of a life sim (ex 4 right angles and 4 straight sides) are present in dating sims but not necessarily the other way around. it's borrowing elements of life sims not dating sims.

Life Sims are games more like The Sims... Persona takes the exact style of gameplay from dating sims, not life sims.

https://youtu.be/yRihTE844CQ?t=306

This is an example of a famous dating sim series in Japan... as you see, you raise all your stats and decide what activites you'll be doing each day. Thats pretty much what Personas daily life segments are like.

I know its tough to hear that the part of the game is considered the dating sim genre, but just pretending its not doesn't do anyone any favors.

 

[Palculator]

That'd be really interesting, and the kind of subversion I've been referring to. All this happy-go-lucky, idol and high school stuff is a facade, while what their world truly is, is this:

Not sure if that's what they're setting up, but something like it would be compelling.

Yeah, that's a nice thought. Would be cool if that's basically a more extreme version of that little segment before the conception in Nocturne and then everything gets destroyed. Though I'm more leaning towards that destroyed realm being like the TV world / Tartarus and not the primary setting.

 

[Drilbit777]

Honestly I'm glad it became its own thing instead of just mashing characters from both series. This has the potential to become a brand new RPG franchise for Nintendo and yeah the anime stuff is gotta take time to get used to but I think it will be an amazing game in the end of it.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

Well I certainly don't think modern Persona games would be so incredibly well received if people didn't like the dating sim part. It takes basic dating sim gameplay (picking what you'll do each day in the day, afternoon, evening and raising your social/knowledge stats and getting social links with people) and adds RPG gameplay... I don't really see any other way to describe it unless you're trying to ignore that its a dating sim RPG at heart. Add in the fact that you play a teen boy surrounded by girls who all have an interest in him and its easy to see what a big part of the games appeal is.

Remove the dating sim part and you just have another dungeon crawler RPG that doesn't see anywhere near the same kind of popularity.

Social sim is a better term to use than dating sim. The outside of dungeon stuff includes a lot of aspects of a teenaged persons life that you can do, not just "dating" and that includes building non-romantic relationships. The reason I like this aspect of Persona games is because I'm a huge advocate of character studies and character driven stories and Persona allows for a lot of character depth and building.

 

[bomblord1]

Life Sims are games more like The Sims... Persona takes the exact style of gameplay from dating sims, not life sims.

https://youtu.be/yRihTE844CQ?t=306

This is an example of a famous dating sim series in Japan... as you see, you raise all your stats and decide what activites you'll be doing each day. Thats pretty much what Personas daily life segments are like.

I know its tough to hear that the part of the game is considered the dating sim genre, but just pretending its not doesn't do anyone any favors.

Right, it has those elements because it's a type of simulation game not because it's a dating sim. Dating sims use elements from a super class of life or social sim which itself is a subclass of simulation. Sim > Social Sim > Dating Sim. Time management, stat raising, day to day life are elements of the parent (social/life sim) not an element unique to dating sims.

 

[Guess Who]

Life Sims are games more like The Sims... Persona takes the exact style of gameplay from dating sims, not life sims.

https://youtu.be/yRihTE844CQ?t=306

This is an example of a famous dating sim series in Japan... as you see, you raise all your stats and decide what activites you'll be doing each day. Thats pretty much what Personas daily life segments are like.

I know its tough to hear that the part of the game is considered the dating sim genre, but just pretending its not doesn't do anyone any favors.

It ultimately doesn't matter if the gameplay is similar to dating sims because by definition for a game to be a dating sim the primary goal has to be dating, which is not the case in Persona.

 

[Squire]

Did you purposefully stop reading before the "Amount to easter eggs" part?

I don't think they're going to simply be Easter eggs. The fact the FE characters seem to be appearing as pop stars implies there's going to be some level of reverence for them in the games world. Everything suggests they'll be the polar opposite of cameos.

 

[Hugstable]

Honestly I'm glad it became its own thing instead of just mashing characters from both series. This has the potential to become a brand new RPG franchise for Nintendo and yeah the anime stuff is gotta take time to get used to but I think it will be an amazing game in the end of it.

Exactly why I'm excited for it. If someone wanted Fire Emblem or SMT or Persona, those games exists and have multiple games in their series that they can play, don't see why they need to care about this if they don't like the style. I'm always for something different and really want to see how the game is gonna look once we get way more gameplay.