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[Zafir]

Going personal because you've got nothing else to say? What a trash response, almost equally as bad as Estus Flasks.

The system works. From Software developed the system for that specific reason. The whole idea behind blood vials is for the reasons I mentioned above - hence, why I'm saying that IT WORKS AS IT'S INTENDED.

ROFLMAO SO FUNNY YES

Jeez, chill.

Why do you think people make such stupid responses when you get so worked up and start saying your opinion is fact and everyone else is talking 'nonsense'?

It probably is working as they intended. That doesn't mean the system can be considered good by everyone, or that people have to like it.

That's all I'm going to say anyway. Maybe you like it, that's fantastic for you, but some people don't which is also fine. Complaining about the system isn't taking anything away from your experience.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Was pretty proud of this boss fight.
Did it with no HUD and after I finished this is how much life I had left.









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGTVr40QXqY&feature=youtu.be

 

[Jonm1010]

In NG getting more vials was super easy. Central Yharnum in 10-15min i could max out. In NG+ and chalice dungeons I just buy the vials since I'm getting so many more echoes. For me this system has not been so bad

I think people on the side defending the vial system are missing the point. No one is saying the system is super hard, or broken. Just that it is ultimately completely unnecessary and fails to achieve anything of value outside of forcing a grinding and tedious mechanic into the game. It being an easy one doesnt change that. In fact it kind of adds to the criticism.

 

[Ferrio]

Brick dude is fucking me up. He feels like 20 levels higher. I'm trying to jump attack in, but I can't execute it 100% of the time.

Those are the perfect enemies to learn to parry. Just stand still and watch them. Once their attack is almost going to hit you, shoot them. If you do it too early you'll shoot them do nothing and they'll follow through and hit you. If you do it too late you'll get hit but not shoot. If you're close to the timing you'll trade hits. Their "raise the brick over their head" attack is the easiest. Their jumping the hardest to parry.

Even then, both the Cling Ring and Ring of Binding made the health loss much less impactful.

Ya pretty hollow system boiled down to "Oh you can't wear 2 rings of your choice". No accessories is another thing I missing in bloodborne . I guess gems and runes are their equivalent... doesn't feel the same though.

 

[The Sarcastic Dude]

Got the game yesterday and I'm really liking it so far. Just beat

Spoiler

Father G

. Died sooo many times but felt so rewarding when I finally beat him. Been awhile since I've been challenged by a game this much.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

i'm a level 111, so i'm not sure i can join but whats your dungeon code so i can try to join.

edit: nvm mind you got him

Yep! I remembered your offer but I wasn't sure if you were on. I finally got him.

 

[Yoshichan]

Jeez, chill.

Why do you think people make such stupid responses when you get so worked up and start saying your opinion is fact and everyone else is talking 'nonsense'?

It probably is working as they intended. That doesn't mean the system can be considered good by everyone, or that people have to like it.

That's all I'm going to say anyway. Maybe you like it, that's fantastic for you, but some people don't which is also fine. Complaining about the system isn't taking anything away from your experience.

What're talking about? I responded calmly until you started going "opinions herp derp" when the specific part you quoted had nothing to do with subjectivity. It was completely unnecessary and off topic for that matter.

Of course the system (that works as intended, once again) isn't loved by everyone. Some people will like it, some won't.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I think people on the side defending the vial system are missing the point. No one is saying the system is super hard, or broken. Just that it is ultimately completely unnecessary and fails to achieve anything of value outside of forcing a grinding and tedious mechanic into the game. It being an easy one doesnt change that. In fact it kind of adds to the criticism.

It's not needless because it encourages you to be more careful. You don't have an infinite supply of healing items.


At this point in the game if I need vials I just buy them. It's not a grind

 

[Fhtagn]

Oooo. I thought you meant that metal armor set (not the Bone ash, the other one) with the nice helmet. Do you know that one?

Oh the

Spoiler

cainhurst set?

you get that after beating the boss of that area (and doing a couple things thereafter I think.)

 

[patchday]

Half health after death was only a thing in DeS. In Dark Souls you'd still be full health after death, in Dark Souls 2 you're only half health if you die 10 times without becoming human.

Oh yeah I remember now.

 

[Mazre]

N o M can someone explain what's up with these frenzy spikes?

 

[Wynnebeck]

Grinding the same areas you have already mastered isn't practice. Its going through the motions to acquire a resource that is plentiful.


Except you too are talking out of both sides. On the one hand you say the ability to have enough vials is a cakewalk, so that bounty of resources takes away from any sort of risk aversion. Vial stocking just becomes something you have to do every now and then to continue moving forward. There is little in terms of risk aversion built into the system the way it is implemented. You aren't scared of dying the same way you were in Demons Souls. You aren't worried much at all. Furthermore bosses are more a issue of being at the right level and learning the pattern and weakness. That is how the game is built. So the finite vial issue just adds time to the process where you have to take a break to go get more vials. This becomes more of an issue in late chalice dungeons.

If the system was built in a way where access to health resources was more restrictive and the game balanced in way to support that, you would have a point, but it isn't. As you yourself admit. It is literally just a matter of wasting time to replenish it. The mechanic adds nothing of value and as the game progresses the mechanic becomes less and less defendable with the way it is executed. So yeah, the wasted time is a valid complaint. which you yourself later use as an argument you agree with me on in terms of the loading times and monotonous of HD visits. Such contradictory statements on your end.

The other valid complaint is that there are better systems in the soul series that have managed what you want the vial system to achieve. Such as the life bar lose in Demons Souls.

You might be referring to another poster because I never said that the drop rate of Blood Vials in the game is risk aversion. Whether you have 100 or 1, I still feel the same about the finite use of the vials. As for agreeing with you, I was referring to the time spent going back and forth due to the loading times which I stated before From is addressing. Never did I say that I found going to HD monotonous, as I like to take care of other things while going there. You are free to feel however you do about BB. However, saying something is bad doesn't make it bad.

 

[xplicitone]

I just beat

Spoiler

Lagarius

the other night and went straight to the lamp and stopped playing. I now spawned back at

Spoiler

Logarius' Seat because i found out you can do more afterwards but all I see is his chair and nothing to pick up, something like castle of Illusions. Am I screwed on this run in getting that now?!

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Oh the

Spoiler

cainhurst set?

you get that after beating the boss of that area (and doing a couple things thereafter I think.)

Same way I would get the Chikage? The

Spoiler

Queen

is dead since

Spoiler

Alfred

killed her.

 

[hipsterpants]

Maybe this could have worked too, at times I thought having 20 of them at hand were too many, but I learned to be cautious and not use my vials every time I got struck by the enemy or my health was down and I could still recover some life by counterattacking. I think I started to be cautious because of the finite amount of vials, maybe I would have been a bit careless if they were infinite. I don't know and as I said, I didn't really need to farm vials during the normal game, maybe NG+ will change that We'll see.

Well once I learned about

Spoiler

Lecture Hall

blood echo farming I also lost all fear of losing my blood echoes. So both blood echoes and vials encourage caution but you're never actually in any real danger. Kind of disappointing.

Welp...reached my mental limit... GGs GAF, the game was fun while it lasted......

Spoiler

Where is this? I feel like I must have missed it.

I just beat

Spoiler

Lagarius

the other night and went straight to the lamp and stopped playing. I now spawned back at

Spoiler

Logarius' Seat because i found out you can do more afterwards but all I see is his chair and nothing to pick up, something like castle of Illusions. Am I screwed on this run in getting that now?!

Spoiler

Put on the crown of illusions you got from Logarius and walk behind the throne.

 

[gioGAF]

Lol at all the "vial" whining. So what should the penalty be, nothing? You get to a boss, blow through 20 vials and when you die you start back up with 20? Once you lose your echoes, there would be zero penalty for dying, I think losing invested resources is a decent penalty. A player should know better than to enter a boss arena with a high amount of blood echoes. It is beyond OBVIOUS when you are entering a boss zone.

When you get to a boss, you should test the waters before you decide to "potion up". Waste only a few resources while you devise a game plan, then potion up. If you still end up going through your entire supply, then the only thing left to do is "get good". I'm sure we have all seen the "Level 4" runs, so it is clearly a question of skill.

I do agree with some gripes:
- Load times
- I think consumables should refill upon death if you have more in storage. At the very least the ones you have in your quick bars. Things like Fire Paper, Sedatives, etc.

One thing to note on farming, if you use the Bold Hunter's Mark, enemies respawn (kill enemies for items, use BHM, respawn at lamp, enemies are back, kill them again, etc. - no need to go to Hunter's Dream). It drastically cut down loading time when I have been farming for certain items.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Of course the system (that works as intended, once again) isn't loved by everyone. Some people will like it, some won't.

First of all you are assuming you know the intention. Secondly, it hasn't changed the way I fight bosses at all, it just stops me every once in awhile to go grind for some echoes to buy more vials.

If you are such a fan of this how do you feel about being able to recover echoes after death? Shouldn't FROM just remove that mechanic to increase the challenge and make you fear death more?

The entire argument is about where you prefer the line of player punishment to be drawn. It comes down to personal preference.

 

[Interfectum]

I think people on the side defending the vial system are missing the point. No one is saying the system is super hard, or broken. Just that it is ultimately completely unnecessary and fails to achieve anything of value outside of forcing a grinding and tedious mechanic into the game. It being an easy one doesnt change that. In fact it kind of adds to the criticism.

It's a finite resource that gets used up if you die too often forcing you to spend time getting more. That makes the resource more precious and, if you truly hate the grind, you'll be more careful with how you use it. For example maybe you'll take more risks attacking the enemy right away to get your health back because you don't want to use a vial.

Whether or not the grind to get your vials back is easy or hard is irrelevant, imo. It's the fact that at some point if you die too much or get too careless you will have to answer for that with time and/or currency.

 

[Jonm1010]

It subtly suggests to the player that they need to take a break. There are plenty of instances in this thread where players bash their heads against an enemy dozens of times only to come back after a break and overcome it with ease. Some could see it as artificial grind. I can't argue too hard against that point of view and I hate grind. However, for me the real grind is the one for chunks. Vials and Bullets were always very easy to resupply. The mechanic of suggesting that I step back really helped me out with

Spoiler

Pthumerian Descendent, Daughter of Chaos and Abhorrent Beast.

With those enemies the desire to conserve resources (Blood, Bullets, Paper) was really the only thing that pushed me to change my strategy into something more effective. My initial strategy would have eventually been successful and I probably would have stuck to them for many more tries had the threat of resource depletion not loomed over me.

I have plenty of problems with Bloodborne's quirks. Not warping point to point is the biggest when those load times are as they are. Similarly being forced to warp back to restock on papers and whatnot is a problem. However, the vial system's biggest fault is that you are allowed to carry too many.

Eh, I don't really buy that. Maybe for a small minority but I think death itself and the inability to make a dent in a boss is just as effective a motivator to step back and come back later. Even if you are right it doesnt exonerate the way the system is implemented. For most people I think practice makes perfect. Me leaving the area for twenty minutes to refill vials doesnt really help me overcome a boss. It actually takes away attempts I could of spent better understanding the tendencies and what I need to do. Vial farming just breaks up that process.

At the end of the day it comes down to a pros vs cons thing to me. Throw your point into the pro side and I still come out with too many cons to justify the system,.

 

[Yoshichan]

Well once I learned about

Spoiler

Lecture Hall

blood echo farming I also lost all fear of losing my blood echoes. So both blood echoes and vials encourage caution but you're never actually in any real danger. Kind of disappointing.



Where is this? I feel like I must have missed it.

Spoiler

Nightmare of Mensis

 

[Ferrio]

I just beat

Spoiler

Lagarius

the other night and went straight to the lamp and stopped playing. I now spawned back at

Spoiler

Logarius' Seat because i found out you can do more afterwards but all I see is his chair and nothing to pick up, something like castle of Illusions. Am I screwed on this run in getting that now?!

Spoiler

Did you pick up his crown? If so, wear it.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Vials are not refillable for story reasons and gameplay reasons. They are meant to tempt you into attacking when you are at your weakest and encourage aggressive play, refillable vials would eliminate this temptation.
Sure the system punishes bad players, but it also rewards better players.
Most annoying thing about vials for me is only being able to store 99 of them at a time, which was annoying with lifegems in DS2, but lifegems weren't really needed at all.

 

[HardRojo]

I also don't just start popping vials as soon as I encounter a boss. First couple of attempts I try to observe it's timing and behavior. I think the system encourages that

Yeah, I'd go in with a low amount of echoes so it wouldn't matter if I died, then I'd use the first run to see what the boss would do and how it would react. Only if I saw I was doing well in that first run, would I use vials.

Well once I learned about

Spoiler

Lecture Hall

blood echo farming I also lost all fear of losing my blood echoes. So both blood echoes and vials encourage caution but you're never actually in any real danger. Kind of disappointing.

I wasn't aware of the

Spoiler

Lecture Building

farming up until the final part of the game The reason I refuse to buy vials with echoes is that I want to keep leveling my character. I'll have to see how I do in NG+ though. Have yet to reach Father Gascoigne.

 

[Yoshichan]

First of all you are assuming you know the intention. Secondly, it hasn't changed the way I fight bosses at all, it just stops me every once in awhile to go grind for some echoes to buy more vials.

If you are such a fan of this how do you feel about being able to recover echoes after death? Shouldn't FROM just remove that mechanic to increase the challenge and make you fear death more?

The entire argument is about where you prefer the line of player punishment to be drawn. It comes down to personal preference.

Wrong. If the system behind being able to recover echoes after death wasn't in the game than it wouldn't encourage people exploring stuff. There's a difference between stupid, unnecessary difficulty (echoes are gone at first death), and having to farm vials because you're using 20x potions each boss-attempt.

How about people actually learn the boss mechanics/moves/frame-set/hitbox before wasting 99 vials and then complaining about having to spend "hours" farming them back up.

I also don't just start popping vials as soon as I encounter a boss. First couple of attempts I try to observe it's timing and behavior. I think the system encourages that

This man knows what he's doing.

 

[Jonm1010]

It's a finite resource that gets used up if you die too often forcing you to spend time getting more. That makes the resource more precious and, if you truly hate the grind, you'll be more careful with how you use it. For example maybe you'll take more risks attacking the enemy right away to get your health back because you don't want to use a vial.

Whether or not the grind to get your vials back is easy or hard is irrelevant, imo. It's the fact that at some point if you die too much or get too careless you will have to answer for that with time and/or currency.

Again, the system isn't set up in a way that really punishes a player though. The resource is rather plentiful. In fact insanely so. As the game goes on it is cheap as well. So it really is not a risk management system in any effective way, just one that wastes time on rare occasions. For lesser players it might be the case, but then the question is still needing to be answered, is this mechanic an ideal way to achieve that? I say no.

 

[Heel]

You could have 99 vials instead of reading and writing this shit, my brehs.

 

[Zafir]

Ya pretty hollow system boiled down to "Oh you can't wear 2 rings of your choice". No accessories is another thing I missing in bloodborne . I guess gems and runes are their equivalent... doesn't feel the same though.

I was surprised there was no accessories considering all the previous games had them. That said, I don't think there would be much they could put on them that runes and gems don't already do.

What're talking about? I responded calmly until you started going "opinions herp derp" when the specific part you quoted had nothing to do with subjectivity. It was completely unnecessary and off topic for that matter.

Of course the system (that works as intended, once again) isn't loved by everyone. Some people will like it, some won't.

I'd hardly call saying "Spouting anything else regarding this is utter nonsense." is calm. That's why I replied the way I did. The way you worded it in the post I first quoted? Yes, it is subjective. Works is subjective. You may think it works, others may not.

I don't mind people disagreeing, what I do kind of mind is when people start belittling other peoples opinions and stating their own as a fact.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

You could have 99 vials instead of reading and writing this shit, my brehs.

Rekt. gg everyone.

 

[Ferrio]

You could have 99 vials instead of reading and writing this shit, my brehs.

Gotta do something between the loading screens.

 

[xplicitone]

Spoiler

Did you pick up his crown? If so, wear it.

Spoiler

I think I forgot to pick it up and I cant find it...

 

[myco666]

This game is going to kill me. Just beat BLB in the last Pthumeru Chalice and I am still shaking haha. Wow never had this feeling with Souls games.

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

Vials are not refillable for story reasons and gameplay reasons. They are meant to tempt you into attacking when you are at your weakest and encourage aggressive play, refillable vials would eliminate this temptation.
Sure the system punishes bad players, but it also rewards better players.
Most annoying thing about vials for me is only being able to store 99 of them at a time, which was annoying with lifegems in DS2, but lifegems weren't really needed at all.

I wouldn't call them "bad" players, but some people are definitely playing this game too conservatively. There is a reason the devs put the regain system in the game, but it doesn't seem to be working as intended, since there so many people complaining about not having enough vials.

 

[Agram]

You could have 99 vials instead of reading and writing this shit, my brehs.

lol

 

[Zafir]

Spoiler

I think I forgot to pick it up and I cant find it...

Spoiler

It may not necessarily be on his corpse. I remember I had to turn round to find it.

 

[Yoshichan]

I don't mind people disagreeing, what I do kind of mind is when people start belittling other peoples opinions and stating their own as a fact.

And I mind people saying "opinions, how do they work" and "git gud comes from the same person who destroys stuff". My stuff is actually on topic; the quotes in this post however, is Pinwheel-trash-quality.

 

[Ferrio]

Spoiler

I think I forgot to pick it up and I cant find it...

Spoiler

It'll be in your wearable inventory area. Hrm... it was near the entrance of the boss fight when I got it. I'd find it odd that it'd just disappear

 

[HardRojo]

You could have 99 vials instead of reading and writing this shit, my brehs.

Stunned with revolver and Visceral attacked. DAMN!

 

[Interfectum]

Again, the system isn't set up in a way that really punishes a player though.

It actually is punishing the player. The biggest complaint with this system is having to spend time and/or currency to grind for more vials. That's a punishment. You can't go for that 8th attempt on the boss because you've depleted your resources, time to take a step back and get more.

Whether you think the system is good or not is entirely up to you but from a design perspective I think it's working as From intended.

 

[Agram]

Spoiler

I think I forgot to pick it up and I cant find it...

It's before the lantern. You can't miss it (unless game glitched for you).

 

[DrkSage]

Guys, I want my second playtrough to be the best since my first play trough was kinda of a "where the fuck am I going? What the fuck am I doing?" And "what the fuck do I do with this item?"

So let's start with some things I did in my first playtrough that may have possibly been the worst choices ever:

Spoiler

1) what was I supposed to do with the music box the girl gave me? I never knew what to do with it. Although I did find her moms pendant, gave it to her, talked to her older sister and gave her the ribbon.

Spoiler

2)The lady with the Crow feather garb near the sewers. Was I supposed to meet her somewhere else? Met her one time and that's it.

Spoiler

3) here i know i screwed up big time when i was sending people to the safe places. I sent the old lady, the chick with the black church outfit and the cannibal (never again) to the chapel and the whore to the clinic, accidentally sent her neighbor to the clinic as well although I know I told him about the chapel first. Are there more people around to send?

Those are a few of a couple more I can't remember lol

 

[Jonm1010]

Wrong. If the system behind being able to recover echoes after death wasn't in the game than it wouldn't encourage people exploring stuff. There's a difference between stupid, unnecessary difficulty (echoes are gone at first death), and having to farm vials because you're using 20x potions each boss-attempt.

How about people actually learn the boss mechanics/moves/frame-set/hitbox before wasting 99 vials and then complaining about having to spend "hours" farming them back up.

This man knows what he's doing.

Except most bosses change form and change tendencies and moves as the fight goes on. So you have to fight the boss and get his health low enough to achieve that.

Again, I have probably died at max a total of 5 times against any single boss so far and i am at the end game but lets not pretend that this isn't a valid point. Even in learning a boss you are going to need vials. And there are just areas where using vials is unavoidable like the three hunters and such.

Furthermore all this argument is saying is that you can diminish the amount of farming you have to do. Which I don't think anyone disagrees with.

 

[myco666]

I wouldn't call them "bad" players, but some people are definitely playing this game too conservatively. There is a reason the devs put the regain system in the game, but it doesn't seem to be working as intended, since there so many people complaining about not having enough vials.

Well the thing is there are times where you can't regain because boss is going berserk and you can't get close to it.

 

[Jonm1010]

It actually is punishing the player. The biggest complaint with this system is having to spend time and/or currency to grind for more vials. That's a punishment. You can't go for that 8th attempt on the boss because you've depleted your resources, time to take a step back and get more.

Whether you think the system is good or not is entirely up to you but from a design perspective I think it's working as From intended.

If you aren't going to actually address the entirety of my points my conversation with you is done. Not wasting my time with people that aren't going to actually engage.

 

[Loomba]

I just fucked

Spoiler

martyr logarius

upppp, man that felt good.

Is there any downside to

Spoiler

kneeling before the queen lady?

 

[Interfectum]

If you aren't going to actually address the entirety of my points my conversation with you is done. Not wasting my time with people that aren't going to actually engage.

I addressed the main point of your argument and you pull this?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

beat

Spoiler

micolash

. I think that might've been the biggest joke boss. All he did was run around and use that tentacle move. Eventually he tried to do a move I interrupted each time. Jesus. It was more annoying trying to catch him than anything else.

I think I have three bosses left. I might finally be able to beat the game.

 

[Yoshichan]

Except most bosses change form and change tendencies and moves as the fight goes on. So you have to fight the boss and get his health low enough to achieve that.

Learning the pattern of a phase-transitioned boss is only a matter of time when you've mastered the initial phase-encounter. No need to ever vial up x20 during the learning-stages. Yet, tons of people (I've watched this game being played and completed by 10+ different people) keep draining them like they're estus flasks during their first encounters with a boss. They are not Estus Flask, for the love of Umbasa.

 

[HardRojo]

It's before the lantern. You can't miss it (unless game glitched for you).

Oh, it is missable. I almost missed it myself but I explored a bit, as I usually do, and found it I also

Spoiler

equipped it because the description made me think something would happen if I put it on and boy something did happen!

 

[patchday]

Vials are not refillable for story reasons and gameplay reasons. They are meant to tempt you into attacking when you are at your weakest and encourage aggressive play, refillable vials would eliminate this temptation.
Sure the system punishes bad players, but it also rewards better players.
Most annoying thing about vials for me is only being able to store 99 of them at a time, which was annoying with lifegems in DS2, but lifegems weren't really needed at all.

Yep, gotta keep the weak down and uplift the elite

Aight got my vials up to 89 which is good enough I guess and bcked up my saves to usb and online. When you're a scrub like me you gotta improvise

My friend will be online tomorrow as well so he'll help me beat these bosses for sho'

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Wrong. If the system behind being able to recover echoes after death wasn't in the game than it wouldn't encourage people exploring stuff. There's a difference between stupid, unnecessary difficulty (echoes are gone at first death), and having to farm vials because you're using 20x potions each boss-attempt.

How about people actually learn the boss mechanics/moves/frame-set/hitbox before wasting 99 vials and then complaining about having to spend "hours" farming them back up.

"Stupid, unnecessary difficulty." Hmm. Replace difficulty with tedium and that's exactly how I'd describe the vial system.

Oh wow, learn the boss moves? What a novel fucking concept! I've played and finished all of the Souls games so you can kindly step off of your high horse. I'm sorry that I've died more than you? Also, please show me where I mentioned "hours" since you felt the need to put that in quotes for some odd reason.

I much prefer the Dark Souls II system of punishment (lose a little of your health bar with each death) to the vial system of punishment. Get over it.