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[Kinthalis]

Every multiplatform game performs better on a PC with those specs. What is your problem? If The Order or Bloodborne would have been released on the PC they would ALSO perform better on the PC with those specs. Is it that hard to understand?

This isnt necessarily true. Until dx12 and opengl next there is still one performance trick up a the ps4s sleeve. That is their much more efficient compute solution. It possible that the order pulls off more complex compute work than could be possible on a 750ti without dx12.

That being said eventually dx12 and open gl next will be here and we will have parity and in all likelyhood, at that time, this setup could pull off the order at similar graphics settings and performance.

I think the main question is why is what is an inferior gpu to whats on a ps4, outperforming it so consistently?

 

[bj00rn_]

Why do you think that we are actually in for a short generation though?

VR. Things will happen, and they will happen fast. Despite what Sony says, the PS4/Morpheus (and to a certain degree also first gen PC VR) is a compromise that will be quickly surpassed. Sony can't afford to do another PS3-like cycle this time or they will be left behind for years.

 

[Swarna]

I think going forward, the i3/750Ti will fare well in certain CPU-heavy multiplatform games(which will be few and far between on consoles), but will probably be surpassed in terms of visuals overall, particularly on the PS4.

I think certain multi-plats that value VRAM usage will have noticeably higher performance on the PS4. I don't see the majority of titles suddenly shifting to that kind of a focus, though, just judging by the multi-plat output so far. The 750 ti performs about as good or better than the the PS4 in almost every game I've personally looked at (Dying Light, Mordor, Unity, MGS: Ground Zeroes off the top of my head). Games like that seem very typical of future multi-platform output, to be quite honest.

Exclusives may be aesthetically more pleasing but even with those I'm not certain we will always see higher performance than what would be possible on this hardware duo. Ryse looks great on the X1 and the PC port runs well on an i3/750ti (maxed 1080p@well above 30 FPS). In any event we can't really compare performance for exclusives.

There's also games still being released that go the other way and don't stress the GPU much where we see performance like locked 60 FPS @ 1080p on GPU's inferior to the 750 TI compared to PS4's locked 30 @ 1080p like DBZ Xenoverse simply due to the CPU gap.

I think any boost in performance will come in the form of Sony allowing for higher utilization of the resources already available on the PS4 that are locked behind current OS requirements.

 

[Fenris95]

Didn't read the article. Does it take into consecration controller, chassis, bluray etc costs?

1. You don't need a controller, however you can pick one up for £20.
2. Cases are around £25 if you don't buy a performance based full tower, and was also included in the total cost in the article.
3. You don't need a bluray drive.

 

[Lockjaw333]

This isnt necessarily true. Until dx12 and opengl next there is still one performance trick up a the ps4s sleeve. That is their much more efficient compute solution. It possible that the order pulls off more complex compute work than could be possible on a 750ti without dx12.

That being said eventually dx12 and open gl next will be here and we will have parity and in all likelyhood, at that time, this setup could pull off the order at similar graphics settings and performance.

I think the main question is why is what is an inferior gpu to whats on a ps4, outperforming it so consistently?

Did we conclude from this thread that its the CPU in the PS4? Honestly asking as the thread exploding since I checked it out the first few pages.

I would guess that the CPU in both consoles is what is choking them out performance wise. Still I think for the price of each console right now they offer pretty good game performance. I think the console versions were using a mix of some settings on very high, like textures, so I think they did a good job of squeezing out a 1080p 30fps presentation on both given the fact that GTA is so CPU dependent.

 

[Qassim]

1. You don't need a controller, however you can pick one up for £20.
2. Cases are around £25 if you don't buy a performance based full tower, and was also included in the total cost in the article.
3. You don't need a bluray drive.

What about a desk? A house to put the desk in?

 

[FunkyDealer]

Doesn't the consoles use parallax effect for textures, which is pretty heavy, no? Was that included in the test?

Ah, they've at least got tessellation turned on which the consoles don't.

 

[Javin98]

Doesn't the consoles use parallax effect for textures, which is pretty heavy, no? Was that included in the test?

I think POM is called tessellation in the graphics menu on PC, but I could be wrong.

 

[Fenris95]

What about a desk? A house to put the desk in?

Damn you got me, this is why PC gaming is so expensive! With a console you can plug it right into your cardboard peasant house in the corner of a Starbucks!

 

[alexandros]

I think the main question is why is what is an inferior gpu to whats on a ps4, outperforming it so consistently?

Nvidia secret sauce! I can't wait to see the 750Ti's successor, such an awesome little card. It's the Defiant of GPUs.

 

[Fenris95]

Doesn't the consoles use parallax effect for textures, which is pretty heavy, no? Was that included in the test?

Ah, they've at least got tessellation turned on which the consoles don't.

I believe they turned off parallax textures and some other features to improve performance, correct me if I'm wring though / if it was patched back in at any point.

http://www.vg247.com/2015/03/31/gta-5-parallax-occlusion-mapping-is-gone-but-framerate-is-better/

 

[eso76]

Doesn't the consoles use parallax effect for textures, which is pretty heavy, no? Was that included in the test?

When POM was disabled by mistake a few patches ago there were no performance improvements though.

 

[Fenris95]

Nvidia secret sauce! I can't wait to see the 750Ti's successor, such an awesome little card. It's the Defiant of GPUs.

Hey my 1GB 8800GT ran pretty much any game at 720p up until about 2010.

 

[Javin98]

I believe they turned off parallax textures and some other features to improve performance, correct me if I'm wring though / if it was patched back in at any point.

http://www.vg247.com/2015/03/31/gta-5-parallax-occlusion-mapping-is-gone-but-framerate-is-better/

This was patched back in on consoles after it was accidentally removed and now the PS4 runs at a rock solid 30FPS even with POM on.

 

[TheMAK]

I believe they turned off parallax textures and some other features to improve performance, correct me if I'm wring though / if it was patched back in at any point.

http://www.vg247.com/2015/03/31/gta-5-parallax-occlusion-mapping-is-gone-but-framerate-is-better/

It was a bug in the 1.08/1.09 updates of the PS4/ONE versions. It has been patched back with zero performance hit.

 

[alexandros]

Hey my 1GB 8800GT ran pretty much any game at 720p up until about 2010.

I still regard my 8800gt as the best PC-related purchase I ever made along with my Q6600

 

[UnrealEck]

The 460 is a beast, can't believe it's still being used for games today. Cleaned my old one out and it runs great again. The card will live forever

Spoiler

just with my younger sibling, 970 upgrade!

Yeah it's doing well for me for now. I have to use it because my usual card is away for repair (which is taking ages).

It was you who did it earlier, right? I appreciate it. It's contributing far more than the fruitless debates in this thread. Anyway, I don't doubt the GTX 750 TI can pull of this performance. I just doubt the PS4 version is fully on high.

Yeah it was me.
So far from what I'm seeing, PS4 is running mostly high settings but I think post processing is set to very high.
Shadows are normal slightly softened (the 'soft' setting).
I'm just trying to find what it's running for the LOD distance setting. So far it seems to be just under 50%.

The problem is waiting for the time to pass in-game to get the same TOD. I don't want to leave the spot because I'd have to get up here again.

 

[Javin98]

Yeah it was me.
So far from what I'm seeing, PS4 is running mostly high settings but I think post processing is set to very high.
Shadows are normal slightly softened (the 'soft' setting).
I'm just trying to find what it's running for the LOD distance setting. So far it seems to be just under 50%.

The problem is waiting for the time to pass in-game to get the same TOD. I don't want to leave the spot because I'd have to get up here again.

What about shaders and textures? I get the feeling that textures are set to very high at least. I know this is even harder to judge, but what about population density? Is it also at 50%?

 

[Gumbie]

Going back to the OP's question I suspect the reason it doesn't run as well has a lot to do with it being a last gen game built on an engine that was used to cell processors and xenon cpus. Since the PS4's jaguar cores are so slow I think the developer has to code it from day one to use all 6 cores efficiently to really get the most out of it. I think it's easier to port to PC because even if the original engine was coded to ps3/360 hardware they can brute force it with much faster processor speeds on most pc cpus that have come out in the last 3-4 years. Which honestly it doesn't take much to be faster than the jaguar cores in the PS4.

I suspect we'll start seeing a lot better performance from PS4 as this generation goes on...game engines are made from the ground up for it and will scale across those slow ass jaguar cores much better.

 

[knerl]

Using 8 is a reason why we see those problems. Windows 8 is worse than windows 7 when it comes to dpc latency which one of the only way to track such an issue. Most stutter issues are OS/Bios inherent not necessarily your hardware unless it's garbage. Gonna make a post in the GTA5 peformance thread on the issue.

The game is not best atm. The launcher sucks cpu cycles depending on various versions, there are also memory leaks and amd users don't get full cpu utilization on top of DX11 drivers being shit compared to nvidia users. We have a solid foundation to work from but rockstar is not at fault for some of those problems.

Is it really? Worse than 7 I mean. Performance in general is better in 8 than on Win 7.
Especially 8.1.

 

[Dick Justice]

What about shaders and textures? I get the feeling that textures are set to very high at least. I know this is even harder to judge, but what about population density? Is it also at 50%?

Pretty sure PS4's textures are set to high.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

LOL at OP getting junior'd. Well deserved.

Laser
Junior Member

 

[Seanspeed]

What about shaders and textures? I get the feeling that textures are set to very high at least. I know this is even harder to judge, but what about population density? Is it also at 50%?

You really need some sort of victory here, don't you?

 

[Javin98]

Pretty sure PS4's textures are set to high.

Really? I can't confirm it, so you may be right.

You really need some sort of victory here, don't you?

Not sure why you keep attacking me, but I'm just curious here. There has to be a valid reason why the 750 Ti is running this at significantly higher frame rates.

 

[kitch9]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-grand-theft-auto-5-pc-performance



Come on TechGAF, explain this to me. How is it possible that the Core i3/750Ti combo manages to offer almost double the performance of the PS4 even with console optimizations and coding to the metal? Is the PS4 CPU that much of a bottleneck? Is the PS4 version poorly optimized? What gives?

We don't know, the PS4 could maybe run it at around 50 fps with dips but R* capped it. It runs at a solid 30 on PS4 with decent details.

It is what it is. If you turn on v sync on the
pc it would have heavy dips and judder.

 

[martino]

There has to be a valid reason why the 750 Ti is running this at significantly higher frame rates.

And it can't be that it performs better in that case ?
An objective analysis won't ignore that possibility.

 

[Alej]

An engine not done with those Jaguar cores in mind while not using the PS4's compute capabilities will always be more efficient on PC due to much faster CPU cores.
Even with a little less powered GPU like 750Ti because an engine like the GTAV one obviously isn't GPU limited on PS4 at least.

But then, we don't know exactly what is under the hood when comparing console and PC versions. PS4's SKU could really well be functioning at 45fps on average with some more intensive tasks behind the scenery but how can we know?

 

[Projectjustice]

Weak CPUs. Sucks but thats what we have to deal with this generation.

 

[hodgy100]

I don't understand why its so difficult to just admit that an i3 & gtx750ti is a good match for console-like performance? why is it a big deal? a computer using those will still cost ~£350 without an OS in the UK. so a console is still cheaper. Consoles are still easier to use.

 

[Javin98]

And it can't be that it performs better ?

Of course it can, but this is quite a difference, wouldn't you say? Unless the PS4 version is also running high above 30FPS. Either way, I was asking mostly because I was curious to see how the PS4 version holds up to the PC version. And he is the only one who seems to want to do it. Again, I'm not someone with an agenda or anything.

 

[Alej]

I don't understand why its so difficult to just admit that an i3 & gtx750ti is a good match for multiplatform and crossgen console-like performance? why is it a big deal?

Fix'd

 

[Marlenus]

Did we conclude from this thread that its the CPU in the PS4? Honestly asking as the thread exploding since I checked it out the first few pages.

I would guess that the CPU in both consoles is what is choking them out performance wise. Still I think for the price of each console right now they offer pretty good game performance. I think the console versions were using a mix of some settings on very high, like textures, so I think they did a good job of squeezing out a 1080p 30fps presentation on both given the fact that GTA is so CPU dependent.

Considering the jump in performance when going from an i3 to an i7 with the 750Ti it definitely screams CPU bottleneck. Although the game is probably exceeding the number of threads the i3 can handle so it is not 100% certain.

Also the PS4 is a 100% locked 30 FPS experience now so we have no idea how much performance is hidden due to the locked framerate so it is not a true like for like comparison anyway and even if, in an unlocked state, it was averaging 60 FPS (which i do not believe) I doubt the devs would enable that as an option in the PS4 version.

I expect GTA6 though to be a different affair entirely. As others pointed out GTA5 was built with the old consoles in mind and porting that code to X86 would be a PITA and there are likely many areas still available for further optimisation but they hit their 1080p30 target for the consoles and PC CPUs can just brute force through the less optimised code. With an engine built on X86 from the start it will be more interesting to see how the console CPUs hold up compared to their PC counterparts.

 

[alexandros]

But then, we don't know exactly what is under the hood when comparing console and PC versions. PS4's SKU could really well be functioning at 45fps on average with some more intensive tasks behind the scenery but how can we know?

We can't. We can hypothesize that if Rockstar really had 15 extra fps sitting there unused they would have upped the detail levels more, but there's no way of knowing for sure.

 

[hodgy100]

Fix'd

Your "fix" makes little sense. can you actually explain what you mean?

 

[martino]

An engine not done with those Jaguar cores in mind while not using the PS4's compute capabilities will always be more efficient on PC due to much faster CPU cores.

I hate this argument.
With nothing to really back it, it sounds like secret sauce to me.
What must we understand ? that an heavily compute unlocked version would meet/beat the average 60fps ?
It seems optimistic and assuming there is lot of gpu untapped resources at disposal for that.

 

[Seanspeed]

Not sure why you keep attacking me, but I'm just curious here. There has to be a valid reason why the 750 Ti is running this at significantly higher frame rates.

Desktop Intel CPU vs console AMD CPU. It really doesn't need any more explaining than that.

 

[Setsuna]

Your "fix" makes little sense. can you actually explain what you mean?

I believe his point is that Exclusives are an exception

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yeah, the hardware upgrade in past generations was MUCH greater.

In the past new hardware was DOZENS of times more powerful than previous hardware.

Here it is more lie 5 or 6 times more powerful.

Which was intentional. Because they can't drop the PS3/360's price any more even today and had to drag out the gen specifically for 9 years which everyone complained about because of that drive for 'more power' in the 7th gen

This isn't 20 years ago. Parts are hotter, more expensive. Sure now you can point to a GPU that is on par or better than the consoles, but 4 or 5 years ago, when the console's GPU's and CPU were being scoped out, that was the best for the money at a price consumers would tolerate with the architecture to run at a lower power consumption.

Considering how they have done so far, i'd say it was a good idea. As said before nobody buys consoles for their power advantages, especially in regards to PC's.

And because they managed to control their budgets so far, that means costs savings faster, and an upgrade path that's easier. Instead of 8 to 9 years on the market, this gen will be 5 to 6, like they used to be i'm sure.

 

[Javin98]

Desktop Intel CPU vs console AMD CPU. It really doesn't need any more explaining than that.

Of course it's entirely possible that GTA 5 is being bottlenecked by the CPU on PS4, but this is no confirmation. Besides, like I said, I'm more interested to see the exact match of the PS4 settings rather than be involved in this endless PC vs console war.

 

[Marlenus]

We can't. We can hypothesize that if Rockstar really had 15 extra fps sitting there unused they would have upped the detail levels more, but there's no way of knowing for sure.

Well I doubt it.

1) They have been working on the PC version so I doubt adding features to the console versions above performance fixes has been high on their to do list.
2) Now the PC version is out the bulk of the team would be working on the next project rather than improving the already released game.

It would be nice for it to happen but it is not realistically going to. Maybe an unlocked frame rate option might be introduced but that would be a curiosity more than anything else.

 

[hodgy100]

I believe his point is that Exclusives are an exception

well we will never know. PC's have their own exclusives which make it as viable an alternative as any other platform.

 

[Seanspeed]

Of course it's entirely possible that GTA 5 is being bottlenecked by the CPU on PS4, but this is no confirmation. Besides, like I said, I'm more interested to see the exact match of the PS4 settings rather than be involved in this endless PC vs console war.

It's not confirmation, but it's the most likely and obvious answer.

Hell, even with desktop CPU's, it takes a highly overclocked AMD 8350 just to match Intel's bottom end Haswell i3 with the game. And it's pretty clear that the game is very heavy on CPU's in general. Combined, there's your answer.

You say you're not involving yourself in the PC vs console stuff, yet you've already tried to call out PC gamers and you've continually been poking at ways of suggesting the PS4 version is actually running higher than DF has suggested. It feels an awful like you're very much in the PC vs console thing, trying to find a way to get some small, salvageable victory for the PS4 version so you can point to it and say, "Ha! Look, it's not actually that much better, it's just the settings are not equal!" I mean, that's very much what it looks like to me.

 

[Marlenus]

It's not confirmation, but it's the most likely and obvious answer.

Hell, even with desktop CPU's, it takes a highly overclocked AMD 8350 just to match Intel's bottom end Haswell i3 with the game. And it's pretty clear that the game is very heavy on CPU's in general. Combined, there's your answer.

You say you're not involving yourself in the PC vs console stuff, yet you've already tried to call out PC gamers and you've continually been poking at ways of suggesting the PS4 version is actually running higher than DF has suggested. It feels an awful like you're very much in the PC vs console thing, trying to find a way to get some small, salvageable victory for the PS4 version so you can point to it and say, "Ha! Look, it's not actually that much better, it's just the settings are not equal!" I mean, that's very much what it looks like to me.

That also shows it needs atleast 4 threads to not have ridiculous minimums. Also makes we wonder if they are using some Intel exclusive feature because while the AMD CPUs run worse the gap is not usually that large.

 

[HariKari]

the gap is not usually that large.

It has been the last few years. 8350 is almost 3 years old now, and that's their top dog.

 

[Dictator93]

That also shows it needs atleast 4 threads to not have ridiculous minimums. Also makes we wonder if they are using some Intel exclusive feature because while the AMD CPUs run worse the gap is not usually that large.

TBH, it just sounds like the usual "AMD CPUs are just not very good" kinda thing.

 

[Swarna]

I believe his point is that Exclusives are an exception

There's no way to measure that other than subjectively and aesthetically. And for the ones that were actually ported over to PC later (like Dead Rising 3 and Ryse) the 750 TI beats out the XB1's performance handily.

 

[Seanspeed]

That also shows it needs atleast 4 threads to not have ridiculous minimums. Also makes we wonder if they are using some Intel exclusive feature because while the AMD CPUs run worse the gap is not usually that large.

Well the game clearly scales well with cores, with threads and with clock speeds. It really uses the most of these CPU's, which is why I think the difference is bigger. Typically, when a game becomes CPU limited, it's because Core #0(first core) hits full usage well before other cores. This game provides very level usage across the cores and threads, meaning that Intel's superior cores are used to an even greater degree because all cores are getting fully utilized before any bottleneck occurs.

 

[Dictator93]

An engine not done with those Jaguar cores in mind while not using the PS4's compute capabilities will always be more efficient on PC due to much faster CPU cores.

This part doesn't make much sense to me. How do you develop a game "for jaguar cores?" Do you think they just dumped the in-order styled stuff on x86? It is pretty obvious they probably rewrote so much of everything.

Also, GPU compute doesn't just start freeing up tons of CPU time all of a sudden. It is a targeted usage for very specific things.

And judging by the fact that this game has a dx11 path on PC, points to it probably already using compute shaders.

 

[Ptaaty]

CPU for sure.

So looking at the above chart, my 2500k at 4.4Ghz shouldn't be my limiting factor...but even with a 7870 I think it is. GTA5 has at the highest CPU usage I have seen outside of handbrake and CPU benchmark software.

I was about to jump on a R9 290, but seeing as the massive CPU usage right now I don't know how much it would help. Every core is loaded up completely....never seen anything like it.

 

[Kezen]

An engine not done with those Jaguar cores in mind while not using the PS4's compute capabilities will always be more efficient on PC due to much faster CPU cores.
Even with a little less powered GPU like 750Ti because an engine like the GTAV one obviously isn't GPU limited on PS4 at least.

But then, we don't know exactly what is under the hood when comparing console and PC versions. PS4's SKU could really well be functioning at 45fps on average with some more intensive tasks behind the scenery but how can we know?

How do you know GTA 5 isn't tapping into the PS4's compute capabilities ?
I'd like you to shed light on this, if you can.