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[gtj1092]

Since we all love digital foundry here

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-grand-theft-auto-5-performance-analysis

In certain areas: "Sustained drops to 24-26 fps on ps4"

Perhaps we shouldn't be talking about locked frametates on consoles in this regard when comparing to this budget gaming rig and calling it out for drops to 50 in denser areas.

Well Dark1x works for DF and says it is now locked at 30 fps 99% of the time. Thought you would be done trolling after you last ban.

 

[omonimo]

Don't forget about ACEs, it needs to use the ACEs!

Well ACEs differently to cloud could give really better performance. I don't know how it's remotely comparable to the cloud urban legend.

I mean, the last digital foundry article from April in regards to GTA 5 said there were actually lower frametates in some places. There was a giant pissing match thread on here over it iirc

Did you have read at least the last updated article about the fps improvement on DF?

 

[Javin98]

I mean, the last digital foundry article from April in regards to GTA 5 said there were actually lower frametates in some places. There was a giant pissing match thread on here over it iirc

Don't know what you're talking about. John, an author on DF, who is easily catches frame drops said it was 30FPS 99% of the time.

 

[StevieP]

Well Dark1x works for DF and says it is now locked at 30 fps 99% of the time. Thought you would be done trolling after you last ban.

I was banned for being a sarcastic twat and it was deserved. I like dark10x as much as the next guy, but I'm looking for an article with analysis from digital foundry, which forum posts don't necessarily facilitate. The latest one in April doesn't go into specifics, and when I played the game on ps4 in November it was most certainly not a locked 30.

You know. Just like how the budget PC doesn't maintain 60 all the time. Just the majority of the time

 

[Dictator93]

Well ACEs differently to cloud could give really better performance. I don't know how it's remotely comparable to the cloud urban legend.

I am being a bit glib. ACEs, cloud, compute, gnmx, etc... have all become unfortunate talking points in technical threads when a game suddenly runs well on the OP config. There has been talk regarding ports before as if they don't take advantage of stuff like ACEs, compute, or multicore processor and hence run mediocre on consoles. Rather than the idea that, inspite of those things, the performance would probably not be that great anyway.

Nonetheless, I think we are coming to the point in time (18 months?) where we can say people should perhaps stop holding onto the hope of large performance enhancements or even the idea that games are poorly coded for consoles. Otherwise it would appear as if every game is poorly coded.

 

[Night Angel]

I was banned for being a sarcastic twat and it was deserved. I like dark10x as much as the next guy, but I'm looking for an article with analysis from digital foundry, which forum posts don't necessarily facilitate. The latest one in April doesn't go into specifics, and when I played the game on ps4 in November it was most certainly not a locked 30.

You know. Just like how the budget PC doesn't maintain 60 all the time. Just the majority of the time

So the guy who writes the articles with analysis for digital foundry posting on this forum isn't a good enough source but him writing an article is?

 

[omonimo]

I am being a bit glib. ACEs, cloud, compute, gnmx, etc... have all become unfortunate talking points in technical threads when a game suddenly runs well on the OP config. There has been talk regarding ports before as if they don't take advantage of stuff like ACEs, compute, or multicore processor and hence run mediocre on consoles. Rather than the idea that, inspite of those things, the performance would probably not be that great anyway.

Nonetheless, I think we are coming to the point in time (18 months?) where we can say people should perhaps stop holding onto the hope of large performance enhancements or even the idea that games are poorly coded for consoles. Otherwise it would appear as if every game is poorly coded.

Well like I said before I don't think that game runs that worse at unlocked fps on ps4. I suspect in the opened area in this PC rig, it runs quite below 60 fps like someone said before here and probably there isn't that great advantages to run in such PC like could appeared. Benchmark are not exactly that precise in some circumstances.

 

[StevieP]

So the guy who writes the articles with analysis for digital foundry posting on this forum isn't a good enough source but him writing an article is?

A forum post, even by a well respected one who does tech analysis, is still anecdotal. I can say "well the rig in the OP plays GTA at 1080/60 like 99 percent of the time" and I could technically be correct as well. Depending on what you do in the game. Says right in the article that the average framerate is 59. On their lowest end rig.

 

[NastyBook]

haha friend just sent me this.

rofl!

Those child bearing hips on PS4 are nothing to laugh at, though.

 

[Ivan]

Because that's a very specific last gen game which hasn't been made with ps4 architecture in mind. They made it work, but they can only do so much if that's their side job.

Ps4 is not a pc, you have to code with it's architecture in mind to have good performance.

If they had made the exact same game from scratch and took their time, but with ps4 in their plans, it would've worked much better.

You'll see that when next gta comes out on that same ps4 and looks like a generational leap. And it will need much more powerful pc to run, too.

 

[StevieP]

Because that's a very specific last gen game which hasn't been made with ps4 architecture in mind. They made it work, but they can only do so much if that's their side job.

Ps4 is not a pc, you have to code with it's architecture in mind to have good performance.

If they had made the exact same game from scratch and took their time, but with ps4 in their plans, it would've worked much better.

You'll see that when next gta comes out on that same ps4 and looks like a generational leap. And it will need much more powerful pc to run, too.

This statement would ring more true if it was still 2007 and we were working with the cell. Next GTA is going to look better, but not because of secret architecture sauce and the equivalent PC will still run it similar to its equivalence now. In fact, maybe better with the thinner Apis coming to the PC sooner than later.

 

[mothball]

Those child bearing hips on PS4 are nothing to laugh at, though.

i'm glad this sentence exists

edit: seriously this is probably the best thing to come out of this thread

 

[Asmodai48]

haha friend just sent me this.

Lol awesome

 

[Gold_Loot]

This statement would ring more true if it was still 2007 and we were working with the cell. Next GTA is going to look better, but not because of secret architecture sauce and the equivalent PC will still run it similar to its equivalence now. In fact, maybe better with the thinner Apis coming to the PC sooner than later.

You're not taking a game focused OS on a dedicated gaming machine into account either thought.
Obviously you're going to get better performance on a gaming rig, but these consoles aren't exactly potatoes either.

 

[Upinsmoke]

I really don't understand how people can still think that the PS4 is some all powerful machine.

It's not.

Both the PS4 and the Xbox One are weak machines. Obviously the XB1 is a bit weaker than the PS4, but this whole assumption that the PS4 is amazing hardware is wrong.

In relative terms, this is the weakest generation of consoles ever. Both these machines were crippled right out of the gate.

I think it's amazing. Build me a PC that looks like a ps4 with all the same functions and capabilities for 300 pounds.

 

[alexandros]

I think it's amazing. Build me a PC that looks like a ps4 with all the same functions and capabilities for 300 pounds.

Digital Foundry did just that last week.

 

[StevieP]

You're not taking a game focused OS on a dedicated gaming machine into account either thought.
Obviously you're going to get better performance on a gaming rig, but these consoles aren't exactly potatoes either.

Windows 8 isn't eating 25 or even 12 percent of my cpu and gobs of memory isn't reserved either since it knows how to swap what it needs.

I think it's amazing. Build me a PC that looks like a ps4 with all the same functions and capabilities for 300 pounds.

Your budget PC wouldn't require a yearly paid fee for some of its most important functionalities.

 

[dragonfart28]

This game is a good endorsement for the Alienware Alpha imo.

Edit: I may have posted this already lol

 

[Upinsmoke]

Digital Foundry did just that last week.

Go on then? I saw that piece and they were clutching at an argument.

Do you know what a playstation 4 actually looks like?

 

[Gold_Loot]

Windows 8 isn't eating 25 or even 12 percent of my cpu and gobs of memory isn't reserved either since it knows how to swap what it needs.

Ok? But it's still an OS dedicated to other functions. I would argue that a console uses much less.

 

[Upinsmoke]

Windows 8 isn't eating 25 or even 12 percent of my cpu and gobs of memory isn't reserved either since it knows how to swap what it needs.



Your budget PC wouldn't require a yearly paid fee for some of its most important functionalities.

Umm you have to pay for an operating system just for your PC to function. Never mind any online capabilities.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I don't think this has been mention here but I think it's AMD's CPU that causes the bottleneck.

lol

 

[StevieP]

Ok? But it's still an OS dedicated to other functions. I would argue that a console uses much less.

But in the case of these new consoles, it doesn't really.

Umm you have to pay for an operating system just for your PC to function. Never mind any online capabilities.

Sure, but windows is not an investment I make yearly.

 

[Ivan]

This statement would ring more true if it was still 2007 and we were working with the cell. Next GTA is going to look better, but not because of secret architecture sauce and the equivalent PC will still run it similar to its equivalence now. In fact, maybe better with the thinner Apis coming to the PC sooner than later.

It doesn't matter, that's just the architecture of the chips, but the architecture of the machine as a whole is still completely different. And it already showed it can do very nice things on the very start of the generation.

Nothing has changed, it's just as wrong to compare it to pc architecture as ever.

Consoles don't "have an amd processor and a gpu of certain power". They are machines built around those parts, but there is much more to understand if you try to explain how they work.


For example, having an ssd for yourself is one thing, but if someone makes a game around the speed of that ssd, that's completely different. Everybody has to have it. You don't know what can be done because you have that ssd just for yourself.

I wish consoles had SSDs...

 

[Naminator]

haha friend just sent me this.

LMAO!

Why haven't I seen this yet?

 

[Gold_Loot]

But in the case of these new consoles, it doesn't really.

Ah, you're right. I forgot my ps4 has a big ol windows symbol when I turn it on.

 

[StevieP]

It doesn't matter, that's just architecture of the chips, but the architecture of the machine as a whole is still completely different. And it already showed it can do very nice things on the very start of the generation.

Nothing has changed, is just as wrong to compare it to pc architecture as ever.

Consoles don't "have an amd procesor and gpu of certain power". They are machines built around those parts, but there is much more to understand if you try to explain how they work.


For example, having an ssd for yourself is one thing, but if someone makes a game around the speed of that ssd, that's completely different. Everybody has to have it. You don't know what can be done because you have that ssd just for you.

I wish consoles had SSDs...

I mean they're not exactly the same, sure, but this article and many others like it are proof that, well, they're similar enough that equivalent parts produce equivalent results.

Ah, you're right. I forgot my ps4 has a big ol windows symbol when I turn it on.

No, but your ps4 OS is reserving more of its memory/cpu resources/equivalence than windows tends to.

 

[Pestilence11]

Yep, recall many a console warrior expressing the same sentiment with old PC indies that came to PS4 or re-releases like TombRaider.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Upinsmoke]

But in the case of these new consoles, it doesn't really.



Sure, but windows is not an investment I make yearly.

True but I guarantee you I will have to upgrade my pc components before the release of the next consoles. For example that 750ti, by the end of the generation, lets say hypothetically that GTA 6 is out. That 750ti and same setup isn't running the equivalent to PS4.

Obviously you could make an argument for different components, coming down in price over a period of time. But by that time, PS4 is likely to be sub 200 dollars, probably 150 GBP.

This is why consoles exist. A cheaper, easy access practical alternative to PC platform that still delivers great results over a long period of time.

 

[Foxyone]

Umm you have to pay for an operating system just for your PC to function. Never mind any online capabilities.

With WIndows. does it not then have more functionality than the console? What is the guy with the PS4 gonna do to cover that additional functinality on his side?

 

[StevieP]

True but I guarantee you I will have to upgrade my pc components before the release of the next consoles. For example that 750ti, by the end of the generation, lets say hypothetically that GTA 6 is out. That 750ti and same setup isn't running the equivalent to PS4.

Obviously you could make an argument for different components, coming down in price over a period of time. But by that time, PS4 is likely to be sub 200 dollars, probably 150 GBP.

This is why consoles exist. A cheaper, easy access practical alternative to PC platform that still delivers great results over a long period of time.

Why wouldn't that same setup run the same equivalent/better/etc to the ps4? Like if sony unlocks another 512mb of reserved memory will it push it over the top? Lol

 

[DeadlyVirus]

How much did this build cost 1 year and a half ago?

 

[Upinsmoke]

With WIndows. does it not then have more functionality than the console? What is the guy with the PS4 gonna do to cover that additional functinality on his side?

Are we talking functionality within gaming, or outside?

 

[Upinsmoke]

Why wouldn't that same setup run the same equivalent/better/etc to the ps4? Like if sony unlocks another 512mb of reserved memory will it push it over the top? Lol

Ok i'm going to stop. If you've never been around for the start and end of previous console generations, it's pretty pointless continuing.

 

[Foxyone]

Are we talking functionality within gaming, or outside?

Overall. Buying a gaming PC has benefits beyond gaming.

 

[derExperte]

Has someone already mentioned that that PC can't play Bloodborne and Uncharted or haven't we reached rock bottom yet?

 

[Gold_Loot]

No, but your ps4 OS is reserving more of its memory/cpu resources/equivalence than windows tends to.

I see, so you have plenty of experience with the ps4 OS then. I stand corrected.

 

[Beerman462]

I don't think it will work out that way.

The i3/750Ti certainly keeps up with a fair number of *multiplatform* titles on consoles right now, but as cross gen trickles out, and devs get better acquainted with the console hardware(with both XB1 and PS4), I suspect that at least GPU-wise, this budget PC pairing will fall behind. PS4 can leverage a large amount of GDDR5 and even the XB1's inferior memory setup is competitive with what's in the 750Ti. Both consoles already have first party titles that more than likely couldn't be done on that sort of budget PC at equivalent settings/performance and it's only a matter of time before multiplatforms catch up.

I think going forward, the i3/750Ti will fare well in certain CPU-heavy multiplatform games(which will be few and far between on consoles), but will probably be surpassed in terms of visuals overall, particularly on the PS4.

I guess we will have to just wait and see. I'm not sure why you put multiplatform in between **. I proved my 8800GT down clocked by 50%, which is very comparable to a Xbox 360 in Flops could still hang with it in multiplatform titles. Even titles from 2013 like Bioshock Infinite and Tomb Raider ran very well at the same settings.

A well optimized game is well optimized no matter what platform it's on. The new consoles especially the PS4 don't have any great mysteries to reveal. Programmers will for sure get better at squeezing performance out of them, but the same benefits should easily transfer to the PC. Also let's not forget about DX12, which the i3/750Ti is already showing benefits.

 

[StevieP]

Ok i'm going to stop. If you've never been around for the start and end of previous console generations, it's pretty pointless continuing.

This isn't the same as a cell processor or the emotion engine

I see, so you have plenty of experience with the ps4 OS then. I stand corrected.

If you don't want to take my word for it, there are plenty of articles that show you what's reserved on the ps4, including from first party devs

 

[Elandyll]

Digital Foundry did just that last week.

You mean the one where they admitedly built something using one time deals, used parts, no optical drive, no OS, no controller and no wifi/ bluetooth?

THAT one?

Come on man. As a fellow PC (and console) Gamer myself, it is so silly to muddy the argument by using this kind of rhetoric/ examples.

PCs aren't made to go cheap. There is no advantage in doing a race to the bottom in this case. They're meant to be powerful, upgradeable and versatile. For around $599-$699 you'll build something "decent" for a starter machine, but even then with some drawbacks.

A Gaming PC at $399 with comparable specs/ peripherals/ OS? No (and even less so at the end of the yeaer when both XB1/ PS4 will likely be in the neighborhood of $299).

 

[Dictator93]

Guys, battlefront is 60 fps on PS4 with THOSE gfx, animations and IQ from the trailer. It is now obvious that Rockstar did not care about this game on ps4 and xb1. They did not try hard enough if DICE can achieve those gfx on console.

Rockstar are amateurs.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Has someone already mentioned that that PC can't play Bloodborne and Uncharted or haven't we reached rock bottom yet?

We're almost there from the looks of it!!!

 

[Upinsmoke]

Overall. Buying a gaming PC has benefits beyond gaming.

Well yeah of course. That's always going to be the case whatever console is out.

But nobody buys a console thinking they can get the same features that come with a PC. On the other hand, your still bound by the required components and software on pc even if you only want to game and don't want to take advantage of other programs.

I think PS4 is an amazing machine. It's size is incredible, it's functional and the difference between this and the GTA V PC comparison is very small.

That's just one example. I'd be interested for DF to do more. Ground Zeroes maybe on the same hardware. Project cars, the new star wars game when it drops etc

For a lot of people it's the ease of use, the accessibility and the fact you don't have to build it yourself. The fact that DF had to scrimp and scrounge for value on parts and then overclock those parts is just too much for alot of people.

Why not find a pre-built model?

It's like the last couple of articles from DF regarding this issue don't take into account the ps4 is actually already built, all setup to go. People are reading it like, "yo we gotta build ps4's too???"

Get them to build a phone equivlent to an Iphone, except it isn't an iphone. I'm sure they could, shit little handset about as big as a brick. There you go apple, fuck your iphone we built our own.

 

[Anustart]

Has someone already mentioned that that PC can't play Bloodborne and Uncharted or haven't we reached rock bottom yet?

Bloodborne has been brought up, along with if consoles weren't around there would be no games.

 

[alexandros]

You mean the one where they admitedly built something using one time deals, used parts, no optical drive, no OS, no controller and no wifi/ bluetooth?

THAT one?

Come on man. As a fellow PC (and console) Gamer myself, it is so silly to muddy the argument by using this kind of rhetoric/ examples.

PCs aren't made to go cheap. There is no advantage in doing a race to the bottom in this case. They're meant to be powerful, upgradeable and versatile. For around $599-$699 you'll build something "decent" for a starter machine, but even then with some drawbacks.

A Gaming PC at $399 with comparable specs/ peripherals/ OS? No (and even less so at the end of the yeaer when both XB1/ PS4 will likely be in the neighborhood of $299).

I disagree. PCs are made to go as cheap or as expensive as you want them to be. They're indeed made to be versatile, from ultra cheap retro and indie gaming boxes to uber powerful monstrous rigs and everything in between. PCs can absolutely directly compete with consoles in terms of performance per dollar and overall value.

 

[SSPssp]

For a lot of people it's the ease of use, the accessibility and the fact you don't have to build it yourself. The fact that DF had to scrimp and scrounge for value on parts and then overclock those parts is just too much for alot of people.

Why not find a pre-built model?

It's like the last couple of articles from DF regarding this issue don't take into account the ps4 is actually already built, all setup to go.

Fair enough it is more convenient, but I put my 750 Ti into my pre-built Dell and it was really easy, just had to put it into the slot and didn't even have to connect any cables.

If anyone here has a recently built (2013 or later) pre-built, the 750 Ti is a great easy upgrade.

 

[Krappadizzle]

haha friend just sent me this.

 

[Beerman462]

You mean the one where they admitedly built something using one time deals, used parts, no optical drive, no OS, no controller and no wifi/ bluetooth?

THAT one?

Come on man. As a fellow PC (and console) Gamer myself, it is so silly to muddy the argument by using this kind of rhetoric/ examples.

PCs aren't made to go cheap. There is no advantage in doing a race to the bottom in this case. They're meant to be powerful, upgradeable and versatile. For around $599-$699 you'll build something "decent" for a starter machine, but even then with some drawbacks.

A Gaming PC at $399 with comparable specs/ peripherals/ OS? No (and even less so at the end of the yeaer when both XB1/ PS4 will likely be in the neighborhood of $299).

First of all if the bolded is true that would be impressive.

Second your right about not wanting to go cheap on the PC except that if you can't afford to go big. The i3/750Ti combo is a pretty good place to build from if you want to upgrade later. I mean your PC has to start somewhere and not everyone can afford to double the price off the bat.

(This is not a PS4 replacement. This is for people who would want to game on PC)
I can build a i3/750Ti on New Egg for $460 including shipping. M/KB included no OS and no gamepad. You can add prices of those if you like, but most people have a game pad and if you really want to save on OS there's ways to do it.

So if someone were wanting to get into PC gaming the i3/750Ti combo is a great place to start and is comparable to the PS4 in price and performance to varying degrees.

Why not find a pre-built model?

It's like the last couple of articles from DF regarding this issue don't take into account the ps4 is actually already built, all setup to go. People are reading it like, "yo we gotta build ps4's too???"

Alienware Alpha is pretty close to the i3/750Ti. It's smaller then the PS4, but it's $499. I wouldn't buy it myself, because I like to upgrade. It's still a really good deal. I think the strongest plus to PC gaming is backwards compatibility and emulation. You can't put a price on that.

 

[diaspora]

I see, so you have plenty of experience with the ps4 OS then. I stand corrected.

Uh, it's been known for almost 2 years that the PS4 reserves 3GB from use. Larger than Windows iirc.

 

[Foxyone]

That's just one example. I'd be interested for DF to do more. Ground Zeroes maybe on the same hardware. Project cars, the new star wars game when it drops etc

For a lot of people it's the ease of use, the accessibility and the fact you don't have to build it yourself. The fact that DF had to scrimp and scrounge for value on parts and then overclock those parts is just too much for alot of people.

Why not find a pre-built model?

Didn't DF's video from a few days ago show off various games (GZ included) on budget hardware?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxUPJdcChzE

Generally you cannot buy a pre-built PC to compete, although last week the Alienware Alpha could be bought for $400. I suppose in some cases you can get away with adding a 750 ti to a home PC though.