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[Nokterian]

Would be better if valve announced it in front of time and do a sort of test and ask for feedback for example how it is launched now it's a fucking mess also i would rather see a sort of patreon button instead. DMCA claims will fly around,absurd prices everywhere...early access mods emerging.

 

[BennyBlanco]

And that's good for you. But not for me and the rest of the gaming community in general. Your mod specifically might be 100% worth the money. I'm really not trying to put you or your work down. But in the end this will only help ruin the community.

Dude, the steam workshop hasn't even been around that long. This won't ruin the community, it will ruin steam workshop which wasn't even very good to begin with. Almost all worthwhile mods are from Nexus.

 

[YuShtink]

Considering the way you treat modders you don't deserve a single free piece of content, so there's that.
But free mods will continue to exist in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. Free mods won't stop existing.

Yes I'm such a bad human being for thinking PC games modding shouldn't be a for profit business. All I want to do is ruin Kreiloc's life.

 

[Bornstellar]

It's not about complaining about not getting paid, it's about people being so entitled as to suggest you shouldn't have the option to charge for your work.

Imagine if someone told you weren't allowed to charge for the work you did at your job, yes, you're totally free to not charge for it - but it should be your choice.

Not when you are using the work of others and you haven't arranged some kind of licensing agreement with them.

 

[Mesoian]

but large quality mods, mods that are currently free probably won't be.

I wonder how many of the new paid for mods are reliant on SKSE?

A few of them are. And fnis.

 

[Krejlooc]

And that's good for you. But not for me and the rest of the gaming community in general. Your mod specifically might be 100% worth the money. I'm really not trying to put you or your work down. But in the end this will only help ruin the community.

All this talk of community. What community? What do you guys contribute? Communities have give and take, I dont see a community.

Modding has always been give give give. You guys have a seriously warped view of why content creators create in the first place.

 

[FyreWulff]

Bethesda and Valve have no right to any of the money for these mods.

Why?

Valve made the store and all the infrastructure that goes along with it.

Bethesda paid for and made the entire world your mod interacts with, that makes your mod worth something instead of just a bunch of models and sounds, and spent millions and millions making the engine your mod runs on.

Mods are a derivative work of the the original game and derivative works splitting their revenue with the original work's creator is so standard in every other single industry that there are entire companies who solely deal with royalty payments (Harry Fox, etc).

They have assumed the majority of the risk of your development, so they get the majority of each sale. If you want a bigger cut, you take on more of the risk.

 

[YuShtink]

Dude, the steam workshop hasn't even been around that long. This won't ruin the community, it will ruin steam workshop which wasn't even very good to begin with. Almost all worthwhile mods are from Nexus.

Mods are already being taken down. It won't happen overnight.

 

[Bornstellar]

A few of them are. And fnis.

And are no doubt built on top of USKP which has COUNTLESS contributors.

 

[Bluth54]

Yeah, this is just a cash grab. 25% goes to the creator? Where does the other 75% go? That alone raises a ton of red flags for me.

Content creators get the same 25% of sales if they get an item added into TF2, CSGO or DOTA2.

 

[SteveWinwood]

And that's good for you. But not for me and the rest of the gaming community in general. Your mod specifically might be 100% worth the money. I'm really not trying to put you or your work down. But in the end this will only help ruin the community.

dont speak for me

this will bring good things

mods that wouldn't have been made because it wasn't at the time viable to put that much time or effort into

now it is

 

[Krejlooc]

Don't you technically have a real job in part because of your "fake job"?

Yes, but I lived on ramen for a long while to get said job.

The reward for work shouldnt be more work.

 

[RK9039]

Honestly. I am changing my mind to that this is not looking so good for the future.

People sarcastically talk about "Oh yeah, free mods totally doesn't exist anymore.", sure they do, but for how long? Looking at the Workshop page, more and more mods are slowly putting on a price tag. The prices seem small, 1.5 euros for a armor, 2.9 euros for a armor, 5 euros for a mod that adds wet or cold effects to your character, but then when you start adding all these together, this is turning into a hefty bill that is expensive for a lot of people. The amount of mods I've used would at this rate put me back probably 500 euros or something, many to just try and see how they are and change the game.

I wouldn't be able to support that anymore and would most likely all out quit the game.

So much in this industry is starting to ask for money from me now. The initial price of the game, the microtransactions, the DLC, subscription fees, now mods are gonna turn to that as well, everything is clawing at my wallet and I honestly don't like it.

Yeah this is so true as well, I've gone through countless amounts of mods for Skyirm (almost played 200 hours in this game without even starting the main quest from High Hrothgar) most of which I would end up uninstalling anyway because there might have been a conflict with the files or I end up not liking it once I get in game. I think at most I probably had 40-50 mods at one time from the nexus.

A Steam wallet refund is really lame if things go wrong with the files, and I've done this enough to know things go wrong quite often.

 

[Nzyme32]

Yes, but I lived on ramen for a long while to get said job.

The reward for work shouldnt be more work.

Too true.

 

[Krejlooc]

so some personal insight into HL2VR dev process for all those "this kills passion! You don't need that money to make a living!" crowd

our mod will be depreciated in about 3 months. As in, it will no longer work. OVR is dropping direct X 9 support, meaning our only option is to switch to an OpenGL renderer. This is tantamount to essentially a complete rewrite of a very significant portion of our mod.

Now, all 3 members of our team got together explicitly to try and start a career in VR development. Our artist, Jaz, lives in the UK, and, without violating his trust here, he is in dire times financially. For the past year and a half, one of the only things keeping him sane is looking ahead to potentially getting a paycheck by landing a job thanks to his mod work. To really drive the point home about how dire some of our finances are, two of us had to pitch in to buy one of us a $25 invite to a tech demo we needed to work with. That individual couldn't afford $25.

I am in the process of setting up my own development studio through private funding. I have reached out to Jaz to try and get him to relocate to the US to try and get him making some money here. Setting up my own studio, managing a project, then actually going through with development is a massive undertaking. Nate, our project lead, has a career in Austin now. We all have social lives and day jobs. We estimate the work it'll take to get HL2VR going without Direct X 9 will be hundreds of hours of coding for Nate and I. Any time I put into HL2VR comes at the expense of my day job, which I truly work around the clock.

We have had serious discussions about whether or not we can afford to personally keep HL2VR going. The knowledge that we could eventually sell the mod has been an enormous factor in keeping us going. Speaking of which - this has been known for a good year and a half now. I find it funny that those bemoaning what this means to the "community" apparently aren't apart of said community because they had an entire seminar about this at Dev Days. Black Mesa is releasing under this model. This has been known for so long.

So, about that talk of the death of free mods and all that shit - we could have started monetizing our mod with Valve's blessing a long time ago. We have discussed selling our mod for ages now. We haven't, though. Why? Well, as professionals, we take pride in our work, and we do not want to sell something that is still a work in progress. Thus, for almost 2 years, this mod that we could have sold, has been given away for free. We have hundreds of thousands of downloads of our mod, and haven't seen a dime from it. We don't even operate an ad server on our project website. Nate pays the fee.

The notion some of you guys have that we, who have done work for free for years, are somehow going to struggle to become motivated to keep our monitzation going is ridiculous. If we are selling a mod and an update breaks it, we have more motivation to fix it now because, so long as it's broken, we can't keep selling it. Don't you guys get it?

Feel like reposting

 

[Qassim]

Not when you are using the work of others and you haven't arranged some kind of licensing agreement with them.

... isn't that the entire point of this infrastructure? This is done with the consent of the developer using a framework provided by the developer and the platform.

 

[Iztli]

BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus




That should be read. Its very well thought out.

 

[Drkirby]

My only issue is I feel the share is too small. Content Creators should got 40-50% at least IMO.

 

[MUnited83]

Yes I'm such a bad human being for thinking PC games modding shouldn't be a for profit business. All I want to do is ruin Kreiloc's life.

No, you are a bad human being because you think you are entitled to get other people's work for free. You're a bad human being because you think people shouldn't have that option.


Once again: getting free content from modders is pretty cool. But you're not entitled to it for free. You're not entitled to have people bending over for you to make awesome content. You're not entitled to have people work for your enjoyment for free.

 

[JC Lately]

Dude, the steam workshop hasn't even been around that long. This won't ruin the community, it will ruin steam workshop which wasn't even very good to begin with. Almost all worthwhile mods are from Nexus.

For now.

Well see if that's the case when Fallout 4 drops.

 

[Juniez]

Content creators get the same 25% of sales if they get an item added into TF2, CSGO or DOTA2.

i am fairly sure item contributions net more than that

Why?

Valve made the store and all the infrastructure that goes along with it.

Bethesda paid for and made the entire world your mod interacts with, that makes your mod worth something instead of just a bunch of models and sounds, and spent millions and millions making the engine your mod runs on.

Mods are a derivative work of the the original game and derivative works splitting their revenue with the original work's creator is so standard in every other single industry that there are entire companies who solely deal with royalty payments (Harry Fox, etc).

They have assumed the majority of the risk of your development, so they get the majority of each sale. If you want a bigger cut, you take on more of the risk.

the bethsoft cut would make sense if the mod's distribution included any of the content or engine of that game, but those workshop mods shouldn't include any official content in their packages and you have to purchase the game itself to participate or consume any of the mods

 

[wickfut]

It's not about complaining about not getting paid, it's about people being so entitled as to suggest you shouldn't have the option to charge for your work.

Imagine if someone told you weren't allowed to charge for the work you did at your job, yes, you're totally free to not charge for it - but it should be your choice.

What has previously stopped modders from having a simple webpage with a paypal charge for download link?

 

[Karak]

All this talk of community. What community? What do you guys contribute? Communities have give and take, I dont see a community.

Modding has always been give give give. You guys have a seriously warped view of why content creators create in the first place.

No as a content creator myself, there is a give and take for sure. Community handles a metric shit-ton of things for creators and creators create content for them.

 

[Bornstellar]

Credit which were given for Wet and Cold:

SparrowPrince for his original Get Wet implementation.
verteiron for the list of dialogue animation events.
trebtreb for information regarding possible snowy shader issues.
lorelai2009 for her fur cloaks.
Chesko just for his outstanding work on Frostfall.
Omesean for his snowshoes: Aesir Armor.
seanbonaker for his umbrellas: Umbrella.
drsoupiii for his knapsacks: Knapsack Backpacks.
Northborn for his fur hoods: Fur Hoods HD.
frankdema for his leather backpacks: FrankDema Travel Backpack.
TreasureChest, OG-Jay, tumbajamba, DVAted and Targaryen for their fur backpacks: Sabre Gear Backpack.
Arthmoor for his work on Run For Your Lives.

How many of these are being compensated?

 

[YuShtink]

All this talk of community. What community? What do you guys contribute? Communities have give and take, I dont see a community.

Modding has always been give give give. You guys have a seriously warped view of why content creators create in the first place.

You act like you were forced to go into this line of "business." It's a fucking hobbyist scene man. People love you for your work, give feedback, say thanks, and you also have a bevy of other free mods from other members of the community to use freely the same way others use yours. Why the hell should it suddenly be profit driven when it hasn't been for 30+ years? And why are gamers supposed to be happy about it?

 

[Slackbladder]

I know some mods use assets from other games where they have been expressly allowed to use them by the developers. However if the modders now charge from said mods with these assets that is going to cause a right stink. When money gets involved things tend to be corrupted. It will not be about a community of modders anymore but about another source of income.
I'm sure good stuff will come of it. But everything's going to change and it's not always for the best.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Credit which were given for Wet and Cold:

SparrowPrince for his original Get Wet implementation.
verteiron for the list of dialogue animation events.
trebtreb for information regarding possible snowy shader issues.
lorelai2009 for her fur cloaks.
Chesko just for his outstanding work on Frostfall.
Omesean for his snowshoes: Aesir Armor.
seanbonaker for his umbrellas: Umbrella.
drsoupiii for his knapsacks: Knapsack Backpacks.
Northborn for his fur hoods: Fur Hoods HD.
frankdema for his leather backpacks: FrankDema Travel Backpack.
TreasureChest, OG-Jay, tumbajamba, DVAted and Targaryen for their fur backpacks: Sabre Gear Backpack.
Arthmoor for his work on Run For Your Lives.

How many of these are being compensated?

i dunno

there are ways to compensate them built into the system

report it if you feel they're not getting their share and the system isn't being used correctly by the modder

 

[MUnited83]

What has previously stopped modders from having a simple webpage with a paypal charge for download link?

Not wanting to be sued out of their asses?

 

[Ganzlinger]

All this talk of community. What community? What do you guys contribute? Communities have give and take, I dont see a community.

Modding has always been give give give. You guys have a seriously warped view of why content creators create in the first place.

So why did you release mods in the first place if that's your vision?

I see gratitude, donations and support from mod users around Nexus. If that doesn't make us a community I don't know what is a community. It was always possible to release paid mods on the internet so I don't understand this hating.

 

[Krejlooc]

What has previously stopped modders from having a simple webpage with a paypal charge for download link?

in many instances legal repercussions

 

[crazyrabbits]

You act like you were forced to go into this line of "business." It's a fucking hobbyist scene man. People love you for your work, give feedback, say thanks, and you also have a bevy of other free mods from other members of the community to use freely the same way others use yours. Why the hell should it suddenly be profit driven when it hasn't been for 30+ years? And why are gamers supposed to be happy about it?

Not only that, but there are donation buttons on Nexus to give to creators directly (example). If anything, Nexus has done a terrible job of promoting this feature - it should be more prominent

i dunno

there are ways to compensate them built into the system

I've heard two differing responses so far. One is that the payouts are to one creator only. The other is that the creator can choose to give money to other collaborators.

Either way, though, it's essentially a system operating in good faith. Nexus allows you to donate to those collaborators directly.

 

[Gurrry]

So the profits arent given to modders until they hit 400.00.

Even then it can only go into their steam wallet.

So really, Valve gets all 100% of the money in the end because the only place you can use that money is on steam.

Is this how it works? If so, thats pretty scumbaggy.

 

[RK9039]

BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus




That should be read. Its very well thought out.

I love these guys.

 

[Krejlooc]

You act like you were forced to go into this line of "business." It's a fucking hobbyist scene man. People love you for your work, give feedback, say thanks, and you also have a bevy of other free mods from other members of the community to use freely the same way others use yours. Why the hell should it suddenly be profit driven when it hasn't been for 30+ years? And why are gamers supposed to be happy about it?

no this is a hobby for someone like you only plays games. this is a career and decades worth of work and research and study for me.

 

[Nzyme32]

Credit which were given for Wet and Cold:

SparrowPrince for his original Get Wet implementation.
verteiron for the list of dialogue animation events.
trebtreb for information regarding possible snowy shader issues.
lorelai2009 for her fur cloaks.
Chesko just for his outstanding work on Frostfall.
Omesean for his snowshoes: Aesir Armor.
seanbonaker for his umbrellas: Umbrella.
drsoupiii for his knapsacks: Knapsack Backpacks.
Northborn for his fur hoods: Fur Hoods HD.
frankdema for his leather backpacks: FrankDema Travel Backpack.
TreasureChest, OG-Jay, tumbajamba, DVAted and Targaryen for their fur backpacks: Sabre Gear Backpack.
Arthmoor for his work on Run For Your Lives.

How many of these are being compensated?

All of them assuming they are set as collaborators for the mod, for which they can set how the money is split. The steam page lists 2 people but it says others are hidden. If a person has an issue or feels they have had content missued / plagarised etc, they can file a DMCA claim and sort it that way I think

 

[Qassim]

What has previously stopped modders from having a simple webpage with a paypal charge for download link?

Well, many people have. However it does get a little murky in regards the rights of setting mods for other people's IP even if the mod is just about adding new unique original content.

This just provides an easy to use infrastructure for both developer of the mod and customer, along with automatically dealing with any potential licensing/infringement issues.

 

[Grikker]

This is DLC on steroids. sad face.

 

[Krejlooc]

So why did you release mods in the first place if that's your vision?

I see gratitude, donations and support from mod users around Nexus. If that doesn't make us a community I don't know what is a community. It was always possible to release paid mods on the internet so I don't understand this hating.

releasing work is an important step in the growth of the developer. my work was released to the development community at large not to consumers.

 

[Branson]

no this is a hobby for someone like you only plays games. this is a career and decades worth of work and research and study for me.

Can you link to some of your work? I am curious.

 

[Juniez]

It was always possible to release paid mods on the internet so I don't understand this hating.

that's prohibited in many tools' licenses

 

[Crimson Kopite]

why are people posting dumb ass comments from weirdos

Any time monetization, salaries, percentages, contracts, workflow processes, and marketing talk happens you're easily reminded of how many people at GAF are in high school or college and have zero comprehension of how the world works.

I applaud this move by Valve and hope it continues.

 

[Phreakuency]

I have no problem with this so long as the content for sale is 100% original.

But I wonder if the original game developers would try to make some sort of claim on profits made on a really popular mod for their game.

There are a lot of 'mods' out there that have ripped models and textures from other games so yeah, this can't be allowed to happen for anything that is for sale.

 

[Gurrry]

All this talk of community. What community? What do you guys contribute? Communities have give and take, I dont see a community.

Modding has always been give give give. You guys have a seriously warped view of why content creators create in the first place.

I dont know about you but not all artists make things with the goal of getting paid. They make things because its their passion and their dream to do so.

As a musician, i dont make music to get paid. I do it because i love it and i enjoy it. If it makes me money, then cool. But i dont think id ever shit on my fans because they "take take take".

 

[balladofwindfishes]

i am fairly sure item contributions net more than that

They don't. They get 25%

 

[Nzyme32]

So the profits arent given to modders until they hit 400.00.

Even then it can only go into their steam wallet.

So really, Valve gets all 100% of the money in the end because the only place you can use that money is on steam.

Is this how it works? If so, thats pretty scumbaggy.

Developer Wallet - not Steam Wallet. The transactions made each time have fees associated with them that Valve have to pay, so I assume that is why they limit the amount to per $100 minimum or whatever it is

They don't. They get 25%

It's been 50-50 for the Valve stuff. I think he meant the in game items

 

[Krejlooc]

Can you link to some of your work? I am curious.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-and-hydra-combine-to-revolutionise-shooters

 

[EVIL]

I like it! I have a few friends who mod and I love for them to get rewarded financially for the hard work. Most of these items take days of hard work to make.

 

[Krejlooc]

I dont know about you but not all artists make things with the goal of getting paid. They make things because its their passion and their dream to do so.

As a musician, i dont make music to get paid. I do it because i love it and i enjoy it. If it makes me money, then cool. But i dont think id ever shit on my fans because they "take take take".

My mod is currently free.

 

[Maniac]

Because they are there now


Bethesda and Valve. I'd speculate it is 50% Betheda, 25% Valve, 25% Creator (Based on Valve doing 50-50 split with their other games)

Valve does a 25-75 with their own games, don't they? Or am I mistaken?

All of them assuming they are set as collaborators for the mod, for which they can set how the money is split. The steam page lists 2 people but it says others are hidden. If a person has an issue or feels they have had content missued / plagarised etc, they can file a DMCA claim and sort it that way I think

I... Can't help but hope the SKSE team gets properly credited and contributor-status for every single mod that relies on their mod.

Because then they'd make bank, and they certainly deserve to.

 

[afternoon delight]

BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

That should be read. Its very well thought out.

It really is. The last four paragraphs are a great summation of the whole for the scanning kind.