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[raidenandsolid]

It will be interesting to see how the market for mods are established and maintained behind this pay system.

And also, why don't they just set up something like a Donate tab for these modders? If these people are good enough that we think they should be paid for it, why not just encourage it by allowing users themselves to determine what to give the modder.
I know that some of those steam pages had a "Pay what you want" scale with them, so why not make it a donations tab instead that gets put into a steam account or something to that effect?

I tend to agree that this will fragment players, as well as further decrease the player base of popular mods.

 

[JC Lately]

Where is that old Penny Arcade strip? You know the one that ends with “You’ll pay twenty when it should be ten, ten when it should be five, and five when it should be free, as sure as you’re alive”?

I have a feeling I’ll need to add to my reaction image folder soon.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I'm not sure how this is relevent to be honest, unless I'm missing what you're trying to say. Skyrim is not a multiplayer game and you are not getting an advantage by buying the mods. The people that want to cheat can and will already.

Because you need to install a half-dozen mods just to make Skyrim playable. You can spend not a single penny on DOTA and it plays exactly the same, to the same high standard, as it would if you spent $500 on it.

 

[Felix Lighter]

The difference is that DOTA hats are entirely cosmetic. Skyrim mods literally change the game.

DOTA's mods are cosmetic only because it's a competitive multiplayer game, not because they have an issue charging for more robust mods.

 

[bounchfx]

Because you need to install a half-dozen mods just to make Skyrim playable. You can spend not a single penny on DOTA and it plays exactly the same, to the same high standard, as it would if you spent $500 on it.

I agree, but those mods are still free though, yes?

More relevant is the complex interaction of mods / assets / and tools that you simply don't have in something like TF2 hats.

yeah, agreed. This shit is a mess in regards to stuff like that.

 

[Bornstellar]

Shadow Scale Set made at the very least 617,9€. That's around 154.5€ for the developers already.

I actually feel like that's probably the one example which almost "works" since it is a completely new set of armor and doesn't have any dependencies on other peoples work.

Except for stuff like TES5Edit and NifTools... So there's still that.

Also, it's a real nice looking set.

 

[JC Lately]

Because you need to install a half-dozen mods just to make Skyrim playable. You can spend not a single penny on DOTA and it plays exactly the same, to the same high standard, as it would if you spent $500 on it.

The several thousand people who bought it on console say u wat m8?

Lets not engage in hyperboyle.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This seems really hard to enforce proper rights on stuff.

If some dude downloads my free sword, secretly adds it to his quest as a rare loot drop from a chest so not many people find it, and he sells his mod, it could take months, if ever, to discover the problem.

The reverse as well. A dude buys my pay for sword and includes it in his free quest as a rare drop so it flies under the radar.

Also if a mod is removed for copy write reasons, would I get my money back? What if it breaks with an update and needs to be fixed, but is pulled and the author banned? What happens to my money?

 

[Mithos]

Shadow Scale Set made at the very least 617,9€. That's around 154.5€ for the developers already.

Banned from nexus for the stunt of uploading it for an hour or two then removing it and placing it on Steam-paywall I guess for author.

16 people got it before that though (17 downloads).

 

[cdyhybrid]

DOTA's mods are cosmetic only because it's a competitive multiplayer game, not because they have an issue charging for more robust mods.

DOTA's mods are also cosmetic-only because the game mechanics do not need to change, they were set in stone from the second Valve brought IceFrog on.

You don't need to buy a hat to make the game stop crashing the instant you buy a second Hyperstone.

I agree, but those mods are still free though, yes?

For now. However, we're basically within spitting range of Bethesda still putting out the same shit product for TES6 and requiring people to pay out the ass for "mods" (i.e. DLC) that fix the shit they were too cheap/lazy to fix themselves.

It's really simple:

1) Exclusive TES6 PC release through Steam
2) Put out broken game (as always)
3) Require all mods to clear Valve's "did you pay for this" check
4) "Get this mod that lets you use more than 2GB of your RAM for TES6 for the low, low price of $19.99!"

The several thousand people who bought it on console say u wat m8?

Lets not engage in hyperboyle.

It's literally a different game with mods.

 

[Bornstellar]

This seems really hard to enforce proper rights on stuff.

If some dude downloads my free sword, secretly adds it to his quest as a rare loot drop from a chest so not many people find it, and he sells his mod, it could take months, if ever, to discover the problem.

The reverse as well. A dude buys my pay for sword and includes it in his free quest as a rare drop so it flies under the radar.

Also if a mod is removed for copy write reasons, would I get my money back? What if it breaks with an update and needs to be fixed, but is pulled and the author banned? What happens to my money?

Valve and Bethesda are grateful for your contribution.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Charging/donating for mods isn't anything new. It's just Valve/Bethesda became greedy as fuck. The fact that you can only make it either pay or free (forcing creators to upload twice if you want a "donate" version) says it all:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=160829215
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=430718983

Won't surprise me if Bethesda wants only mods that come from the Steam Workshop in future games (can't wait for the shitstorm on that one).

 

[JC Lately]

It's literally a different game with mods.

Agreed. But the vanilla game is still playable.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Agreed. But the vanilla game is still playable.

Word?

 

[JC Lately]

Word?

512mb of RAM is hard, man. PS3 shortcomings all the mods in the world wouldn’t have solved

 

[MrHoot]

For now. However, we're basically within spitting range of Bethesda still putting out the same shit product for TES6 and requiring people to pay out the ass for "mods" (i.e. DLC) that fix the shit they were too cheap/lazy to fix themselves.

It's really simple:

1) Exclusive TES6 release through Steam
2) Put out broken game (as always)
3) Require all mods to clear Valve's "did you pay for this" check
4) "Get this mod that lets you use more than 2GB of your RAM for TES6 for the low, low price of $19.99!"

.

That's also a big concern for me, at least when it comes to Bethesda games.

Skyrim really doesn't support mods, it's mods that support Skyrim. Bethesda games, at their core, have never been stellar by their vanilla selves. Not counting the huge unstable launches they usually have (Skyrim was an absolute mess at release) but also that they always have glaring issues that mod usually come to fix.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

As a game artist who freelances and lives off my means..this is great. I dont think however that the mods that are simple are going to make a lot of money and there will always be mods for free, that wont change. Especially since most mods are small tweaks and a large portion are introducing licensed properties into a game..which you cant sell.

What really needs to happen though...if Bethesda wants 75%..and thats a lot ..is to get dedicated moderation watching over it. That goes for anyone who opens a game up to this.

As for me, i will likely sell with donation options for any weapons or armor i make. I dont see myself making much money out of this with the way its set up. I will drop a weapon a made tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm not sure what percentage would be fair, but the game's publisher would have costs associated with building, releasing and supporting their modding tools. Their cut would have to be large enough to cover that and make at least some amount of return in order to justify the work they would have to put in. Of course trying to justify margins is going to be awkward in the case of dealing with an already released game with a history of mod support though.

Is Bethesda still adding features or maintaining their tools? Are they going to start again with this revenue they are getting?

Otherwise Their percentage should be 0. They have been paid for the game.

 

[cdyhybrid]

512mb of RAM is hard, man. PS3 shortcomings all the mods in the world wouldn’t have solved

It's not just that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim#Technical_issues

 

[justjim89]

How does using Steam Workshop for your mods work, anyway? I've always used Nexus, and I know a lot of folks love Mod Organizer. How does the Workshop compare?

 

[Tagyhag]

It will be interesting to see how the market for mods are established and maintained behind this pay system.

And also, why don't they just set up something like a Donate tab for these modders? If these people are good enough that we think they should be paid for it, why not just encourage it by allowing users themselves to determine what to give the modder.
I know that some of those steam pages had a "Pay what you want" scale with them, so why not make it a donations tab instead that gets put into a steam account or something to that effect?

I tend to agree that this will fragment players, as well as further decrease the player base of popular mods.

If they had just a donate system and 50% went to the modder I think there wouldn't be a huge backlash like there is now. That's seems like a pretty good method. Of course money conquers all.

 

[Stiler]

On one hand I think this is great to allow modders to be able to make money off their creations and have fans support them.

On the other hand as a player who downloaded a TON of mods for Skyrim I think (if it becomes the norm) to charge for every single thing would really put a damper on the amount/use of mods.

I can't counter the number of times I tried to use mods that were bugged/didn't work, or ended up not liking the mod after I tried it, if I would have lost money on top of that...ugh.

There definitely needs to be some kind of "Try before you buy" thing or something, on top of a way for modders to set it where perhaps their mods are free BUT people can choose to "pay" for them.

For me that would be a sweet spot, allow people to use your mods while allowing for a way for those that wish to help support you can, rather then a strict paywall.

 

[Crimson Kopite]

Is Bethesda still adding features or maintaining their tools? Are they going to start again with this revenue they are getting?

Otherwise Their percentage should be 0. They have been paid for the game.

That's not how real life works.

 

[Drazgul]

How does using Steam Workshop for your mods work, anyway? I've always used Nexus, and I know a lot of folks love Mod Organizer. How does the Workshop compare?

It's complete ass compared to Nexus + MO.

 

[tuxfool]

That's not how real life works.

It has worked just fine for them until now.

 

[Zaptruder]

75% take from Bethesda. Hah. Greedy motherfuckers gonna kill their modding scene rather than help it.

I guess this is what they call the cash out phase.

 

[cdyhybrid]

How does using Steam Workshop for your mods work, anyway? I've always used Nexus, and I know a lot of folks love Mod Organizer. How does the Workshop compare?

It's basically "click to install this mod" and has no nuance beyond that. If you cared even the slightest bit about modding your game beyond that, Steam Workshop is only used if it's literally the only place you can get the mod.

 

[Netherscourge]

Is Bethesda still adding features or maintaining their tools? Are they going to start again with this revenue they are getting?

Otherwise Their percentage should be 0. They have been paid for the game.

At this point, all that would do is break some of the paid mods and cause more problems if they aren't immediately updated to be compatible with the latest "official" patches or updates.

Bethesda is better off leaving Skyrim AS-IS now.

 

[tuxfool]

At this point, all that would do is break some of the paid mods and cause more problems if they aren't immediately updated to be compatible with the latest "official" patches or updates.

Bethesda is better off leaving Skyrim AS-IS now.

Yeah, and getting paid for doing jack shit?

 

[ducksauce]

Hopefully this means more devs will invest in giving their games mod support. The pc port of GTA V is surprisingly good but my biggest disappointment is its lack of Steam Workshop support.

 

[Almighty]

It's basically "click to install this mod" and has no nuance beyond that. If you cared even the slightest bit about modding your game beyond that, Steam Workshop is only used if it's literally the only place you can get the mod.

Do the mods on it work with a manager?

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

If they had just a donate system and 50% went to the modder I think there wouldn't be a huge backlash like there is now. That's seems like a pretty good method. Of course money conquers all.

Pretty much. You would still see backlash but at least there would be just as many that would be for it.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Do the mods on it work with a manager?

No idea, I don't have any Steam Workshop mods for Skyrim currently. Have a few for Civ 5, but I don't need a mod manager for Civ 5.

 

[Iacobellis]

Like I said in the Steam thread: This is basically Valve (and Beth) doing what Microsoft stated they were intending to implement into X-box Live on the X-box 360 about 10 years ago, when the console was going to launch.

"We'll let content creators be able to charge for their T-shirt skins/Car Liveries in Forza and other titles."

Just now Steam has made it real. I don't honestly use the Workshop much. But I don't necessarily have a problem with content creators getting paid for their work, but I'm curious what the upper-limit for their charging will be. Because I'd balk at people charging $10 a pop for items.

I remember that. Wonder why it never came to fruition.

 

[ambar_hitman]

What's stopping anyone from stealing someone else's work, customize it and then sell it? Who is going to verify it? Can people copyright mods too? The accusations of stolen assets and the ensuing chaos will be hilarious.

 

[Bornstellar]

Hopefully this means more devs will invest in giving their games mod support. The pc port of GTA V is surprisingly good but my biggest disappointment is its lack of Steam Workshop support.

After something like this and given how terrible Steam workshop is for modding, I'd consider it a blessing.

 

[Vostro]

If content creators created their own original work that is high quality, then I really don't mind paying for it. Though I don't like that Valve/Bethesda are taking a much bigger cut than the modders.

 

[Crimson Kopite]

On one hand I think this is great to allow modders to be able to make money off their creations and have fans support them.

On the other hand as a player who downloaded a TON of mods for Skyrim I think (if it becomes the norm) to charge for every single thing would really put a damper on the amount/use of mods.

I can't counter the number of times I tried to use mods that were bugged/didn't work, or ended up not liking the mod after I tried it, if I would have lost money on top of that...ugh.

There definitely needs to be some kind of "Try before you buy" thing or something, on top of a way for modders to set it where perhaps their mods are free BUT people can choose to "pay" for them.

For me that would be a sweet spot, allow people to use your mods while allowing for a way for those that wish to help support you can, rather then a strict paywall.

There's a 24 hour grace period where you can 'return' a mod for a refund if you don't like it.

 

[cdyhybrid]

What's stopping anyone from stealing someone else's work, customize it and then sell it? Who is going to verify it? Can people copyright mods too? The accusations of stolen assets and the ensuing chaos will be hilarious.

I dunno, but mods are already getting taken off the shop for trying to make money off other people's work.

 

[tuxfool]

There's a 24 hour grace period where you can 'return' a mod for a refund if you don't like it.

less of a refund, but rather Valve wallet funds. Essentially this could be a method of filling your valve wallet with arbitrary amounts.

 

[MUnited83]

What's stopping anyone from stealing someone else's work, customize it and then sell it? Who is going to verify it? Can people copyright mods too? The accusations of stolen assets and the ensuing chaos will be hilarious.

It's on the OP. The owners of the works can issue a DMCA takedown notice.

 

[Jac_Solar]

Nevermind.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

What's stopping anyone from stealing someone else's work, customize it and then sell it? Who is going to verify it? Can people copyright mods too? The accusations of stolen assets and the ensuing chaos will be hilarious.

Yeah, I'm wondering what sort of curation or moderation is going to be happening for that sort of thing, if any at all on Valve's level. Or if one modder on Nexus says not to have their mod involved in any paid mod, and somebody uses it as part of their mod anyway, what then? Seems like it could be a bunch of DMCA notices just flying all around.

I like the idea of being able to financially reward modders but so many other aspects of this don't seem very fleshed out.

I dunno, but mods are already getting taken off the shop for trying to make money off other people's work.

Christ, and that (was) one of the mods in the big bundle pack Valve is promoting? Ugh.

 

[Almighty]

No idea, I don't have any Steam Workshop mods for Skyrim currently. Have a few for Civ 5, but I don't need a mod manager for Civ 5.

Fair enough. I have also never used the workshop for Skyrim mods, but it sounds like it's a step back.

Anyway I am not surprised to see mods get taken down. With so many interconnections between mods it sounds like it will be a pain in the ass and take some time to sort that stuff out. Also i guess i got my answer to what happens when a mod get taken down.

 

[Haint]

Just catching up here, so the mod maker only gets 25%? Legit can not believe Valve and Bethesda have the balls to go forward with this. That's so beyond insulting it'd be less objectionable if they literally smeared shit on the people's faces.

 

[Mithos]

Do the mods on it work with a manager?

You can subscribe to a mod on the workshop, then from MO start vanilla skyrim launcher and it will start download the mod you have subscribed to, when its done close launcher, and the mod will be in overwrite folder, and you just click create mod, type in a name for it, and here you have it.

 

[WetTreeLeaf]

"It's the end of the world! I should get everything for free!" - Everyone on steam right now.

But seriously, Im ok with this as long as it brings quality content at an acceptable price and if the quality control is there from Steam.
Either way this is definitely going to bring about something, good or bad.

 

[Almighty]

You can subscribe to a mod on the workshop, then from MO start vanilla skyrim launcher and it will start download the mod you have subscribed to, when its done close launcher, and the mod will be in overwrite folder, and you just click create mod, type in a name for it, and here you have it.

I see, thanks.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Christ, and that (was) one of the mods in the big bundle pack Valve is promoting? Ugh.

Yep. I'm sure there won't be any issues when they get the thousands of mods out there onto the workshop like I'm sure they're envisioning though!

Fair enough. I have also never used the workshop for Skyrim mods, but it sounds like its a step back.

Anyway I am not surprised to see mods get taken down. With so many interconnections between mods it sounds like it will be a pain in the ass and take some time to sort that stuff out. Also i guess i got my answer to what happens when a mod get taken down.

The team behind SKSE could end this entire thing instantly if they want to. Almost every mod with any sort of complexity to it uses SKSE, and if they prohibit people from using their work to sell mods, you can say goodbye to this entire thing.

 

[RK9039]

Yep. I'm sure there won't be any issues when they get the thousands of mods out there onto the workshop like I'm sure they're envisioning though!



The team behind SKSE could end this entire thing instantly if they want to. Almost every mod with any sort of complexity to it uses SKSE, and if they prohibit people from using their work to sell mods, you can say goodbye to this entire thing.

Yup, same with the FNIS animation mods and also ENB mods as well I'm guessing.