WhiskeyDiver
Member
I highly doubt that they would. The submission I mentioned has already been removed from the listing.
Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
- Start date
- Status
I highly doubt that they would. The submission I mentioned has already been removed from the listing.
Yeah man, piracy is great.
Netherscourge
Banned
TouchMyBox
Member
If you've played CS GO, it's easy to see why someone would be excited about mod makers getting paid.
Custom maps in CS 1.6 and Source were fine and all, but they were almost always very low quality art-wise.
In CS:GO, valve devised a way for those mapmakers to get paid, and the output of the CS mapmaking community has been outstanding and rivals professionally made maps made for leading AAA games.
From this, one may deduce that mod makers getting paid means that the quality of mods will increase and we'll have more cool stuff to play.
If you've booted up the Epic Games launcher, it looks like they plan on using that platform for probably all of their games going forward. It would be surprising if they didn't use the same setup for Fortnite, for example (assuming it isn't a spectacular failure).
I agree that your point about a few formerly free mods being converted to premium mods does rub me the wrong way as well. But the majority of concern seems to be surrounding the future of modding as a concept.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
So because I download a popular mod that has been out for years after the creator decides to charge for it, it is piracy? Give me a break.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The seller getting only 25% does not mean Valve is taking 75%.
Gtagentleman
Member
RIP Valve gg
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Epic barely makes games at all. Steam is the gatekeeper for almost all PC games.
Yes it is. You don't know what piracy is?
I'm pretty sure Valve is taking their standard cut of 30% and Bethesda gets 45%.
Ah yes, piracy! I havent even thought of that.
How long till cracked for-pay mods are a thing? One week? Two?
Unless the mods come with some sort of DRM, it probably happen in a couple of days. People would just need to buy them and dump them.
It could also turn a bunch of modders who would had released their mods for free into sellers .
I never modded before (I could, just never felt like this.) But this is effectively killing what was a very cool way to bringing life into a game into a secondary business. :/
Cool for people who want to make a living doing what they love, but I can easily see mods being sold at premium for something that was once considered free and having very little value until everyone is selling their mods for money.
I would assume they take a cut since it's their game. Considering Steam already takes 30% for hosting games from a company, they could take a bigger cut here, and Bethesda would also take a good chunk in this as well.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
So if the creator fails to take down their mod from Nexus anyone who downloads it is a pirate?
I don't think you understand what piracy is or what this bullshit entails.
My wife was going to buy Skyrim on her Steam because she wanted to tryout mods after playing on the 360 forever, but after hearing about this she said fuck it.
Bornstellar
Member
Cracks? LOL. Son, you don't need to *crack* anything.
Thanks for the correction. Yeah, I guess what I really meant is that it's unfortunate that the creator only gets 25%. It's better than nothing for them though I suppose.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13486/?
Guess Wet & Cold needs to be taken down, at least - they're selling assets without the creator's permission.
Guess Wet & Cold needs to be taken down, at least - they're selling assets without the creator's permission.
it's almost like people don't want more, potentially better quality content.
the issue I see here is not letting the seller list it as free/pay what you want from the start. If someone wants to charge money for the time and effort they put into making something that's their prerogative. Those that want to continue to offer content for free, can. I'm seeing a lot of people simply bitch about not being able to get it all free like before. Did you ever consider you might get some truly epic stuff from people who needed a reason to spend that much time creating? or do you normally expect others to create quality content for you free of charge?
as long as this doesn't force creators to set a price and doesn't force people to buy said content I don't really see an issue.
The only thing that seems hard to swallow is the 25% cut, but then again, that's how every other workshop game has been. :\
there are a ton of great questions people are asking here though, and clearly valve/bethsoft still have a lot to consider and figure out if they haven't already.
did the last 5 years of free mods all change to pay, or...?
the issue I see here is not letting the seller list it as free/pay what you want from the start. If someone wants to charge money for the time and effort they put into making something that's their prerogative. Those that want to continue to offer content for free, can. I'm seeing a lot of people simply bitch about not being able to get it all free like before. Did you ever consider you might get some truly epic stuff from people who needed a reason to spend that much time creating? or do you normally expect others to create quality content for you free of charge?
as long as this doesn't force creators to set a price and doesn't force people to buy said content I don't really see an issue.
The only thing that seems hard to swallow is the 25% cut, but then again, that's how every other workshop game has been. :\
there are a ton of great questions people are asking here though, and clearly valve/bethsoft still have a lot to consider and figure out if they haven't already.
did the last 5 years of free mods all change to pay, or...?
Bornstellar
Member
Will be interesting to see how the narrative on piracy changes among PC gamers going forward.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Awesome. I hope this happens more and it bites the people charging in the ass.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Oh dear, this looks dodgy as fuck...
So your only option is to leave feedback on the item's page, hope that the modder who sells it isn't a horrible prick, values their customers and their business, and actually fixes the mod within a decent frame of time.
But what if the creator ditches the mod entirely and doesn't bother coming back to fix the mod if it becomes incompatible or broken? What if a month or more passes without a fix or update? Consumers will have essentially paid for a broken product that no longer works as intended, can't get a refund and are basically fucked over by the modder, the games developer and valve and it's basically tough shit? With no repercussions for any of these parties at all for this broken paid product?
What a shitty excuse for a FAQ. Basically saying get to fuck if you have the misfortune to buy a broken product.
So your only option is to leave feedback on the item's page, hope that the modder who sells it isn't a horrible prick, values their customers and their business, and actually fixes the mod within a decent frame of time.
But what if the creator ditches the mod entirely and doesn't bother coming back to fix the mod if it becomes incompatible or broken? What if a month or more passes without a fix or update? Consumers will have essentially paid for a broken product that no longer works as intended, can't get a refund and are basically fucked over by the modder, the games developer and valve and it's basically tough shit? With no repercussions for any of these parties at all for this broken paid product?
What a shitty excuse for a FAQ. Basically saying get to fuck if you have the misfortune to buy a broken product.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
As it does to me as well.
Nothing of value was added to the end consumer with this.
The absolute ideal scenario is that, with incentive to receive payment, we're going to see a bunch of really high quality mods that we otherwise simply could not have expected. The problem is, we all know that's not going to be what happens (or at least, strongly and rightfully expect so) here.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
My only hope is that the ridiculous percentile would encourage gamers to donate to modders who offered free content rather than hosting it on this channel.
This is what you said:
You said that people who already had those mods downloaded before are putting them up on Nexus. That's piracy.
Netherscourge
Banned
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
If all you got from my post is that this is the same but on a larger scale then you must be ignoring the vast bulk of my points about how complicated and convoluted this can all get.
Yes there are hyperbolic doomsday scenarios abounding but I'd classify your blasé "it'll be fine/deal with it/we'll see" posts as the other extreme. This is not a simple situation.
Not to shill my own post or anything, but it may give some insight as to why this is a more contentious issue than "content creators make good new content, get paid". The model works well for (mostly multiplayer) games where mods are largely self-contained maps/levels and cosmetic assets, but TES/Fallout modding is a much deeper hole than that.
I might be too cynical, but thank the last 10 years of game industry practices for that.
I don't really see an increase in quality happening. If anything, it will be the exact same quality, except now behind a paywall. With the problems inherent to modding that comes with it (no company behind it, just a random person, no real quality control, no real support in case of bugs, or malfunctions with other mods).
That and the fact that it doesn't really support content creators in the first place as so much goes to Valve or Beth.
There is no winning here for people who enjoyed mods before as far as i'm concerned, for the moment. Maybe i'll be proven hugely wrong. But the time I spent playing games made me rather expect the worse and be right than to be surprised.
A few years ago, we would've all laughed at the idea of paid broken demos and broken alphas. Welp, lookit now
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
How can you justify it as piracy? The mod was free when it was originally downloaded, the mod has been free everywhere including Steam up until a few hours ago. Someone who rehosts it is simply providing a mirror.
Its a mod, not a new intellectually property protected under US copyright law. Piracy laws don't apply here at all.
Just to be safe if this actually continues I'm downloading all of the good mods from Nexus that I don't have yet, not checking to see if they are on the Workshop, and making backups on my external harddrives and cloud storage.
All the DLC and the definitive edition (or whatever its called) also went on sale today. Coincidence?
No, of course not.
Fuck yeah. Time to donate to that guy. From what I recall, the hoods and cloaks are asizable chunk of Wet and Cold's immersion.
banefirelord
Banned
I fully support people earning money for the cool shit they make.
That being said, the retroactive nature of the pricing is really raising my hackles. My biggest concern about this is the (admittedly only potential) case where the free version of one of the major mods I use is removed from Steam Workshop and Nexus and replaced with a paid one, thus breaking my saves and essentially holding the game hostage until I shell out $5 or whatever to get the mod working again. Fuck that.
I'll grant you this is reactionary and very "THE SKY IS FALLING," but I'm also concerned about how this system will affect Bethesda's development and QA policies going forward. Even as someone who abjectly loves their games, BethSoft is really shitty about QA and properly cleaning up their games before release, with many of their bugs only getting fixed by users post launch. Not saying this is necessarily going to happen, of course, but with this sort of paid mod system in place, coupled with the huge cut Bethesda gets out of each sale, BethSoft has a twisted incentive to skimp on content and testing with their future games in order to shove responsibility onto the paid mod scene, earning free money from the customers who have to turn to mods to fix the broken-ass game that got shipped. This would be fucking terrible for PR, of course, and not sit well with Bethesda's recent console focus, but that the potential even exists is very discomfiting.
That being said, the retroactive nature of the pricing is really raising my hackles. My biggest concern about this is the (admittedly only potential) case where the free version of one of the major mods I use is removed from Steam Workshop and Nexus and replaced with a paid one, thus breaking my saves and essentially holding the game hostage until I shell out $5 or whatever to get the mod working again. Fuck that.
I'll grant you this is reactionary and very "THE SKY IS FALLING," but I'm also concerned about how this system will affect Bethesda's development and QA policies going forward. Even as someone who abjectly loves their games, BethSoft is really shitty about QA and properly cleaning up their games before release, with many of their bugs only getting fixed by users post launch. Not saying this is necessarily going to happen, of course, but with this sort of paid mod system in place, coupled with the huge cut Bethesda gets out of each sale, BethSoft has a twisted incentive to skimp on content and testing with their future games in order to shove responsibility onto the paid mod scene, earning free money from the customers who have to turn to mods to fix the broken-ass game that got shipped. This would be fucking terrible for PR, of course, and not sit well with Bethesda's recent console focus, but that the potential even exists is very discomfiting.
Bornstellar
Member
Another massive problem.
There's no way to tell if infringement is occurring without buying the mod.
There's no way to tell if infringement is occurring without buying the mod.
human onion
Banned
This is such a terrible idea in so many ways. Conflicting mods, compilations, base required mods like SKSE, this stuff won't work with the legal strings associated with charging for work. And for what? Most mods won't make jack, but Valve and Bethesda will make money off them no matter what. It helps no one but them, and its such a cynical cash grab.
I predict this wont last long. They should have set up a donation system, like TF2's map stamps if they actually wanted to support modders. From my perspective, all they've done is added a million shitty microtransactions that I will never pay for, just like the microtransactions that actual developers make.
I predict this wont last long. They should have set up a donation system, like TF2's map stamps if they actually wanted to support modders. From my perspective, all they've done is added a million shitty microtransactions that I will never pay for, just like the microtransactions that actual developers make.
Portal 2 was free for a while. So was Sniper Elite V2. So was a shitload of other games. How in the hell something being free once gives you the right to pirate it forever?
And yes, mods are protected under US copyright law. How the hell do you think they give the option of someone issuing a DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) to prevent asset and mod theft on the workshop?
That is a big difference.
A game that is free does engender goodwill on people buying stuff in order to support the game. There is also the addtional notion that as it currently stands mods for UT will be easily segmented and mostly composed of cosmetics, more complex things like game types and maps will remain independent works that you can pick and choose. The problem with skyrim is that it isn't probably isn't wholly satisfying to simply buy a sword and be done with a modding once and for all (unlike cosmetics), typically people that play skyrim roll with a lot of mods installed, something that adds up a lot.
Then there is the issue with the take. People wouldn't begrudge Bethesda on their take if Skyrim was free, but as it currently stands most of the revenue the mod makers are putting into their project is being pocketed by valve and bethesda. Valve, I can understand as they need to host and manage the workshop but what does bethesda do for the mod that justifies their take?
TouchMyBox
Member
It sounds like an absolute nightmare in terms of growing pains and putting the community through a transitionary period replacing what was once quiet and stable with wild west chaos. The thing though is that in every situation so far where Hobbyists have been given a chance to get paid and potentially earn a living off of creating content in the PC gaming space has eventually seen a sharp rise in the quality of the content, and has come to be seen as a boon to the entire platform.
Perhaps Valve is over-stepping here and this is the breaking point where all hell breaks loose for whatever reason, I guess we'll have to wait and see. What I hope and imagine we'll see end up happening is that this will have a similar trajectory to DLC (starting on the 360) where the first piece of DLC was horse armour, and everybody got upset and wrote off the entire concept (this is the phase we're currently in) but then eventually once developers became accustomed to the idea, they started making things like The Lost and the Damned, and Minerva's Den. I'm sure that there will always be people selling garbage much like how there is still plenty of garbage DLC, but those are usually easy to ignore, and what I end up getting out of the concept of DLC is rad stuff like those Dark Souls 2 DLCs. I just hope that people don't completely write off the mod marketplace before we get a chance for it to have its equivalent of The Lost and the Damned.
I'm not sure what percentage would be fair, but the game's publisher would have costs associated with building, releasing and supporting their modding tools. Their cut would have to be large enough to cover that and make at least some amount of return in order to justify the work they would have to put in. Of course trying to justify margins is going to be awkward in the case of dealing with an already released game with a history of mod support though.
Netherscourge
Banned
I'm REALLY curious how the E3 crowd will react to Bethesda taking the stage there for the first time on June 14th...
...will the crowd boo them if they mention the new Skyrim/Steam Workshop sales figures? Or if they mention that Fallout 4 will have it too?
Their E3 conference coordinator/presenter is probably like this right now:
...will the crowd boo them if they mention the new Skyrim/Steam Workshop sales figures? Or if they mention that Fallout 4 will have it too?
Their E3 conference coordinator/presenter is probably like this right now:
Shadow Scale Set made at the very least 617,9€. That's around 154.5€ for the developers already.
honestly, I'm a bit uncertain about it myself. I love Skyrim, and I love modding. However when you take something that people are used to being free and slap a pricetag on it, things can get messy.
I can tell you that their intention was two fold: 1) To profit from the mod scene, IN ADDITION to helping reward the mod creators. 2) To attract more talent/modders to the scene. TF2 and Dota 2 would be nowhere if there wasn't money involved with the creation of their content. By letting authors choose to price their content how they see fit, they can bring more people to the table that wouldn't have normally participated (since now their time is an investment that can potentially bring a return).
That being said, there does seem to be a lot of complications around skyrim, with how mods have been built, what happens to upgrades, what if they break, what if another mod requires another, etc. and it all seems very messy. I will be watching from the sidelines to see how all the parties involve handle it, but I certainly can't fault you for your cynicism. I do wish the 75% crusaders had come out to fight for tf2/dota though
.Right now Skyrim feels like one of the few big PC games that supports modding in a big way and I hope these type of changes don't spoil it, but in fact help it grow once people settle down from the initial shock that they might not *all* be free in the future. I miss the days of UT/Quake/HL when there was a crazy huge scene of people doing lots of awesome stuff.
My personal stance is that it the choice should be to the creator of the mod, and I think having it say 'Donate' and have a pay what you want option as standard (unless changed by the creator) would be a better solution than separating them, as right now there's a lot of confusion and salt.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
I'm REALLY curious how the E3 crowd will react to Bethesda taking the stage there for the first time on June 14th...
...will the crowd boo them if they mention the new Skyrim/Steam Workshop sales figures? Or if they mention that Fallout 4 will have it too?
Their E3 conference coordinator is probably like this right now:
Nothing will happen. They put a teaser of Fallout 4, cue applauses, and GAF goes into hype mode.
honestly, I'm a bit uncertain about it myself. I love Skyrim, and I love modding. However when you take something that people are used to being free and slap a pricetag on it, things can get messy.
I can tell you that their intention was two fold: 1) To profit from the mod scene, IN ADDITION to helping reward the mod creators. 2) To attract more talent/modders to the scene. TF2 and Dota 2 would be nowhere if there wasn't money involved with the creation of their content. By letting authors choose to price their content how they see fit, they can bring more people to the table that wouldn't have normally participated (since now their time is an investment that can potentially bring a return).
That being said, there does seem to be a lot of complications around skyrim, with how mods have been built, what happens to upgrades, what if they break, what if another mod requires another, etc. and it all seems very messy. I will be watching from the sidelines to see how all the parties involve handle it, but I certainly can't fault you for your cynicism. I do wish the 75% crusaders had come out to fight for tf2/dota though
Right now Skyrim feels like one of the few big PC games that supports modding in a big way and I hope these type of changes don't spoil it, but in fact help it grow once people settle down from the initial shock that they might not *all* be free in the future. I miss the days of UT/Quake/HL when there was a crazy huge scene of people doing lots of awesome stuff.
My personal stance is that it the choice should be to the creator of the mod, and I think having it say 'Donate' and have a pay what you want option as standard (unless changed by the creator) would be a better solution than separating them, as right now there's a lot of confusion and salt.
The difference is that DOTA hats are entirely cosmetic. Skyrim mods literally change the game.
I'm not sure how this is relevent to be honest, unless I'm missing what you're trying to say. Skyrim is not a multiplayer game and you are not getting an advantage by buying the mods. The people that want to cheat can and will already.
Bornstellar
Member
More relevant is the complex interaction of mods / assets / and tools that you simply don't have in something like TF2 hats.
- Status