Blue Ninja
Member
Midas Magic, which has since been removed from the Workshop, had ads in the free version.
Modding is dead. I really don't see how they thought this would be a good idea.
At least there's still the Nexus.
Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
- Start date
- Status
Modding is dead. I really don't see how they thought this would be a good idea.
At least there's still the Nexus.
Bethesda made game, assets and tools. Also promoted mods from the start.
Valve's platform isnt even that good and its like costing them nothing to support usage of the mod files. 25% is a steal for what they are doing.
Compare their service to Nexus, its a joke.
Ps. I dont say that Bethesda should be entitled to 50% either, just that they actually have some merits to charge bigger amount than Valve.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Bethesda had already been PAID. When I buy a full priced game, I expect the game, the assets, and the tools to be included in the fee I paid. Don't you dare claim they can now charge me AGAIN for these same things I already paid for, without putting in any more work on their part. Skyrim is NOT some F2P game, it is a full size AAA title that I paid for. Don't go and assume Bethesda had been short changed for not being able to charge me for what I already bought.
They? Bethesda and Valve? Money! Money is always a good idea! More money is even better! And getting people to do all the work is also a great one!
Seriously, i don't see a good future for the Elder Scrolls and Fallout. They will support paid mods right away, i am sure of it. (And will not be surprised the day these paid mods start trickling to consoles.)
The future i see is this: You can either get a console version, that is bug riddled (due to sheer scale of the game, not necessarily because they neglect QA) and won't be fully fixed, ever (Skyrim Unofficial Patches fix thousands of bugs, even pretty serious ones that never got fixed in official patches and it has taken years). Or you can get the PC version... and pay for modders to get your game fixed. True, perhaps unofficial patches will be free... but there are no guarantees such will be made.
I don't think i will get another Elder Scrolls or Fallout game... i doubt the brilliant modding community these games have will be there anymore in the same form when the games are launched.
I love how the creator of garry's mod try's to encourage theft as a convienent side step to the "kid's that don't have money" crowd. He didn't want to tell them they were fucked now with the new system. So instead he tries to side step the issue by encouraging those kids to steal. Bravo, sir. Well played.
To me this makes Skyrim feel like a mobile platform game. That is part of the reason this move by Valve is so off putting.
That wasn't what you said. You said modders make more than the developers. The devs get 50% of the mod purchase, the modder gets 25%.
Also, Midas magic sat unupdated forever until paid mods became possible, then he immediately comes back, updates it, puts it up for sale, and puts ads into the free version.
:l o fucking l
RIP modding
To me this makes Skyrim feel like a mobile platform game. That is part of the reason this move by Valve is so off putting.
I can't say I totally agree with you; first of all Valve is handling all the transactions through Steam, which is major service to provide (and obviously something that Bethesda doesn't have the capability or will to do), they are the ones handling all the hardware support and maintaining (once again, a costly upkeep that), they are the ones that built the whole workshop system, they are the ones that handle all the customer support (handling all the DMCA claims). On top of that, it's just pretty much the basic cut they take from every transaction through Steam, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be entitled to take that cut in this case.
And they have already been paid for that.
Angry Fork
Member
Seems this has already been discussed somewhat, but people disgusted by owners taking profits generated by workers should be disgusted by capitalism in general, since this is how it functions everywhere. Walmart, McDonald's, Car companies, bankers, whatever it may be. The pencil pushers at the top take everything and leave a small portion (or less) for the people who actually do shit and create wealth.
For those saying so and so company created the tools necessary for modding to occur, what you mean is other workers/content creators created those tools. So really what you should be advocating is eliminating the bourgeois middleman (bosses/owners) who soak profit and are totally unnecessary.
It's disappointing Valve is like this now considering their own organizational structure is quasi-socialist (though only in management not in ownership), but oh well. What's even worse is preventing the free donate option from occurring. This feels like some kind of digital version of enclosure.
Like others have said, it's cool people can make money off of their work now, but the ratio of remuneration is way off compared to what they would get if they were actual employees (plus no benefits, healthcare, etc. obviously). This is a way for Valve (and soon other companies) to "create" content (have their stamp of approval) more cheaply by outsourcing the labor than the traditional way of hiring people.
For those saying so and so company created the tools necessary for modding to occur, what you mean is other workers/content creators created those tools. So really what you should be advocating is eliminating the bourgeois middleman (bosses/owners) who soak profit and are totally unnecessary.
It's disappointing Valve is like this now considering their own organizational structure is quasi-socialist (though only in management not in ownership), but oh well. What's even worse is preventing the free donate option from occurring. This feels like some kind of digital version of enclosure.
Like others have said, it's cool people can make money off of their work now, but the ratio of remuneration is way off compared to what they would get if they were actual employees (plus no benefits, healthcare, etc. obviously). This is a way for Valve (and soon other companies) to "create" content (have their stamp of approval) more cheaply by outsourcing the labor than the traditional way of hiring people.
fluffydelusions
Member
The new steam controller was posted?
zephervack
Member
Mods with ads?
Bethesda chose the split, IIRC Valve only gets 30% of paid content made for their games and it is in concept of distribution, like any other content sold on Steam.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Fee mods were in direct competition with official paid DLCs.'
Now Bethesda is turning paid mods into 75% profit DLCs. All without doing anything at all. That 25% number for the actual mod creator is INSULTING. Why is it that what used to be FREE, now costs 75% of the total sales? That's insane and not close to justified.
So 75-30=35% of the money goes to Bethesda. For WHAT? What did Bethesda do to deserve that money? They already got paid for the game, they should PAY the mod creator instead, not demanding a fee for doing nothing at all. Charging someone else to make their DLC for them? That's evil.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
This is like what if console gaming had a baby with pc gaming.
Gavin Robertson
Neo Member
Could this be a pre-cursor to modding coming to consoles? Would people's feelings towards Valve change if it turned out this was a Bethesda/Zenimax move and Valve had no real choice but to get on board as Sony and Microsoft were signed up?
As i said before, i won't be surprised the day user-made mods start trickling to consoles. As paid mods, of course...
Free modding on consoles won't happen, i'm pretty sure about that.
I think this is a great idea, and it's really saddening to see everyone react to it so poorly.
Heard it was going to happen a few months ago, and I was excited for what it can mean for modding in general. I think everyone is missing the big picture here, entirely.
Heard it was going to happen a few months ago, and I was excited for what it can mean for modding in general. I think everyone is missing the big picture here, entirely.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
It's not modding anymore. It is just paid DLC that are unregulated, will barely work properly, and with a third of the money going to Bethesda despite Bethesda not doing anything to earn it.
The big picture is that Bethesda can make money off other people's work at no cost to them or even any basic attempt at customer service. It is DLC that earns them money but require no effort, and they can ignore any complaints when the game crashes from a bad mod.
maestrillo
Banned
It's incredible how Valve has charged his own reputation in days
They are not getting the 75%, Valve will take their basic transaction percentage. Also, that 25% isn't exactly new; it's the same percentage that Epic is taking for Unreal Tournament Marketplace Content, the same percentage that Valve has already taken from content made for TF2/DOTA2 and as someone planning on making extensive content for Unreal Tournament I can't say that the 25% is insulting in the least; it's exactly what I as a game developer would expect from something that is making money off derivative IP and Tools as well as all the service they are providing. You are forgetting that there's VAT, the hosting, the customer support, the tools support everything that is included in that cut as well the IP and tools you are profiting from.
Consumers are currently walking through a stream of feces & piss. There might be a beautiful flower covered sunny hill further along this path, but right now all I can smell is turds & urine.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
All of this used to be FREE!
All this was once provided to make us pay up the full price of a AAA game! You now trell me they cost money now all of a sudden?
Gavin Robertson
Neo Member
Oh yeah, no chance free modding comes to consoles. I'm just imagining a system where the top selling mods on Steam make their way to PSN and XBL. With three markets then open to sales, I'd have to imagine Bethesda/Zenimax could very easily sell the idea of charging for mods to plenty of people who produce free content, otherwise they'd be leaving a lot of cash on the table.
My thoughts exactly.
I hope Valve sticks to their guns but after the uproar I believe they will change this one way or another.
There was no VAT, transaction fees, customer support (as in modders getting support for Workshop in the same scale) if the content was free.
But everything else will continue to be free for those making that content free. It's not like modders have to pay for the tools, but once they start profiting from these services it's a normal practice that the IP holders and service providers take their cut.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Given a lot of mods for Skyrim simply fix their poorly made game I have to wonder if they'll ever just try charging for patches.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
This. Now there is a financial incentive for Bethesda to ship Fallout 4 entirely brocken, then watch as the money roll in from all the "mods" that finish the game for them. They save money by not having to finish the game themselves, and earn more money on top by getting 30% of everything the moders sell. Bethesda can now earn more money by selling a WORSE game, intentionally.
If people are honestly confused why Valve is taking 25% then consider that in addition to things _machine mentioned above they're giving your mod shelf space on a supermarket with more than 100 million customers. How is it different from them taking a cut from sold games? Or is the argument that that's unreasonable too?
iNvid02
Member
They might possibly try to change the 25-75 split, but the Steam train is resilient enough to just keep on moving running over anything sitting on the tracks - this is likely the future direction of workshop mods.
Not to mention the fact there are many people giving Valve and Bethesda a corporate spongebath whispering to them "thank you, we're gonna get so many great mods now" - nobody knows what the workshop is going to look like in the future, it could be filled with garbage trash like the app store and greenlight or it could be a paradise of ambitious mods - im gonna go with the former
Oh come on, you do realize that there are console versions too? They are not going to ship a game entirely broken, that wouldn't be in their interest. Also, now there is a financial incentive to ship better tools, better documentation and better support for those tools.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Completely meaningless, because online shelf space is infinite, real life shelf space cost actual RENT. You got to do better than that; I did my economics course. Youre argument only works with bricks and mortar because every inch of shelf can be measured as a percentage of the rent that the shop pays to the landlord. This does not apply online at all.
They CAN, as soon as the Mod DLC get put into consoles too.
How about this: http://www.unitedracingdesign.net/#!shop/c9dh
and
http://milviz.com/flight/
These are some of best produced mods I've ever seen, yet they are living hand in hand with free content that is still thriving as well as it ever has.
Midas Magic, which has since been removed from the Workshop, had ads in the free version.
Just disguting...
It's just an allegory. Why don't you explain to me instead why Valve doesn't deserve a cut? Is it just the mods they shouldn't get a cut from or is it games too? If just the former then why are they different?
Krauser Kat
Member
Modders should be paid. They should get more of the cut though. Modding saved the piece of shit that was skyrim in the first place. A 10/40/50 split would maybe work. More power too them and valve.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Valve could potentially get a cut... But Bethesda does not. deserve one
And since Bethesda insist on getting a cut, the whole deal is off.
ashecitism
Member
http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/
was linked on FP, don't know which dev this is, but is giving their opinion on this
was linked on FP, don't know which dev this is, but is giving their opinion on this
Modders didn't save Skyrim, people bought the game in droves before modders got the tools and went to work. Modders gave that game longevity and turned it into an evergreen title that makes Bethesda quite a bit of money even this far away from its release date.
I agree. The work that must go in to modelling those cars and getting them to handle correctly in game must be enormous.
But this is Skyrim, were a large chunk of mods are about getting tits to bounce in skimpy outfits. It isn't the same serious market.
As someone who is creating IPs myself, that is bullshit. IP holders deserve money (if they so will) from derivative work no matter what. Basically what you are saying is that the Elders Scrolls IP and Tools are worth nothing.
Yeah absolutely, I'm not contesting that the situation is perfect that it will even work in the end, but paid mods can have major benefits and we know for a fact that it can work. I'd love to delve more into the problem of current audience and market and why I'm not quite sure if the Skyrim market can quite fix itself on the platform, but unfortunately I really need to get back to work.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Your arguments on derivative tools only makes sense if the mods are stand alone games. They are not. The mods only work with existing paid copies of Skyrim. This means every mod is only sold to someone who already own and paid for Skyrim's assets, thus Bethesda is already financially compensated.
But they do. Modders are utilizing their IP. It's as simple as that. Should that cut be 50%? Well I would hope once more games start supporting paid mods naturally the ones with more generous cut get more talented modders working on them. What's the reason to be mad here? If modders think the cut is too small then I would imagine they won't make mods to be sold. If gamers for some ideological reason think that cut between parties involved is not fair (yeah I know I'm reaching here but it seems to be a concern of many people here) then they won't buy the mods.
If you don't want anyone taking a cut from your work then why not code a game ground up and sell it straight from your own site?
- Status