AP: NFL finds it probable that Patriots deliberately deflated balls

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werks said:
LOL. True pat's fan here.

Did they tamper with the ball in division games against the jets? Is that just fucking with someone you don't like?
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"LOL PATS FAN LOL WHAT AN IDIOT"

I'm talking about you guys bitching about the Pats filing some stupid tampering charge that amounted to nothing.

But if you want to talk about the Jets game, apparently not because in the texts the two dudes were talking about how the Refs fucked up the balls and over infalted them by like 2 PSI
 
chadskin said:
http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-deflategate

Is he the misterxmedia of football?
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1. AUTHENTICITY: Every cheat listed on this site was published by a third party somewhere in the media, no cheats have been created solely for this site. You can challenge the rating and commentary, but you can't challenge the cheat.

The site seems to call everyone an idiot for believing big "X-gate" stuff, just look at the Bountygate part.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
"LOL PATS FAN LOL WHAT AN IDIOT"

I'm talking about you guys bitching about the Pats filing some stupid tampering charge that amounted to nothing.

But if you want to talk about the Jets game, apparently not because in the texts the two dudes were talking about how the Refs fucked up the balls and over infalted them by like 2 PSI
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You are the only one that doesn't see the hypocrisy of filing tampering charges on a throwaway comment by a owner while at the same time cheating all season by actually tampering with the ball.

If it's OK for he pats to "fuck with" the jets to try to make them lose some draft picks, then it should be ok for every NFL team to "fuck with" the pats for actually cheating.
 
werks said:
You are the only one that doesn't see the hypocrisy of filing tampering charges on a throwaway comment by a owner while at the same time cheating all season by actually tampering with the ball.

If it's OK for he pats to "fuck with" the jets to try to make them lose some draft picks, then it should be ok for every NFL team to "fuck with" the pats for actually cheating.
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What are you talking about.

Why are you talking about tampering with contract negotiations between division rivals and tampering with footballs in the same argument?

Are you trying to be clever or something because the word tampering is used in both situations?

Even if, there is past precedent with simply "off handed comments" being used to file tampering charges.

And in the past those charges were followed through by the league and teams were punished.

So yes, the Pats putting tampering charges against the Jets before they lost Revis was most likely petty in nature. But to say that it's "arrogance because they are accusing another team of breaking the rules" is missing the point of the charges in the first place.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
1. AUTHENTICITY: Every cheat listed on this site was published by a third party somewhere in the media, no cheats have been created solely for this site. You can challenge the rating and commentary, but you can't challenge the cheat.

The site seems to call everyone an idiot for believing big "X-gate" stuff, just look at the Bountygate part.
Click to expand...

For someone whose credo is apparently "Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light", all he posted under DeflateGate are media reports that either reflect his opinion or discredit people who don't share his opinion as morons. And for some of the claims he made, he now looks like a moron. I might as well read a Pats fan site, in other words.

As for the "cheats" he listed, it's a bit of a moot point. Most organizations have had multiple coaches, GMs and whatnot just in the last decade, to bring up cheats from the 1970/80/90s doesn't exactly strike me as being very relevant to today. The Patriots, though, they've remained largely the same in key areas for the last 15 years, huh.
 
_woLf said:
No, but Julian Edelman staying in the game after he clearly had a concussion did. We lost Avril because we followed protocol :)

Pats bent the rules in the Super Bowl just like they did in the AFCCG.
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The guy with a concussion was so affected by it, that he even caught the game winning touchdown due to the obvious effects of the concussion.
 
I might give a shit if it was a close game, but it wasn't.

DxGonzalo said:
The guy with a concussion was so affected by it, that he even caught the game winning touchdown due to the obvious effects of the concussion.
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By the grace of god he embarrassed his opponent and caught that catch.
 
JesseEwiak said:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/...and-smoke-causes-cancer/#.VUq9EuIvO5o.twitter

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18

Yup, really sounds like a trustworthy firm. I mean, do all of you Patriot haters also believe secondhand smoke doesn't cause cancer? Or that Toyota didn't look past a flaw in their cars? After all, same research firm.
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It seems to me this report is going to give the NFL more headache than it was worth. They have sort of put themselves in a position where they have to punish Brady, but the report doesn't provide any 'smoking gun' that Brady definitively knew and encouraged it, and now the research firms study is being questioned.

To be honest I am sort of surprised at the report. I thought the outcome would have gone 2 (obvious) ways:

  1. We have conclusive evidence of the Patriots deflating footballs and Tom Brady's knowledge and encouragement of it, or
  2. We found no conclusive evidence

Instead, the report walks a middle ground of saying we don't have enough evidence but what we have makes us think he did it - the "probably more than not" conclusion, which to me sounds like a "we are 51% confident he did".

I wonder if Goodell wishes he just fined the Patriots the 25K fine for ball tampering immediately after the Colts game and moved on with it.
 
chadskin said:
For someone whose credo is apparently "Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light", all he posted under DeflateGate are media reports that either reflect his opinion or discredit people who don't share his opinion as morons. And for some of the claims he made, he now looks like a moron. I might as well read a Pats fan site, in other words.

As for the "cheats" he listed, it's a bit of a moot point. Most organizations have had multiple coaches, GMs and whatnot just in the last decade, to bring up cheats from the 1970/80/90s doesn't exactly strike me as being very relevant to today. The Patriots, though, they've remained largely the same in key areas for the last 15 years, huh.
Click to expand...

The fucking 49'ers won 3 rings with Rice admittedly using stick'um during that run. I don't see anyone calling for those rings to be taken back or an asterisk put into the record books. I don't see anyone calling for the Broncos to give back the rings after they were caught skirting the cap when they won the Superbowl.

Did the Pats deflate those balls, most likely. I personally think they did, there is too much evidence to deny it. But even during the investigations I was reading about other QB's fucking with the balls and another long time QB even talk about deflating the balls and saying it was common practice.

Teams pipe in fake noise and constantly disrupt headset communications. Teams used to fuck with the balls that the opponent teams were using before each team used their own balls.

I see proof of cheating everywhere in the league, you can't deny it. Cheating has always happened and will always happen, every team right now has PED laced super humans, but the league and people don't care as long as you keep face and pretend it's not happening.

Seriously, it's like baseball. Everyone was doping, nobody cared because for a long time people weren't testing positive, then the cat was out of the bag and the illusion was broken. Every pitcher is using some type of illegal grip stashed either on their glove or in their asshole, nobody cares as long as you pretend it's not happening and try to keep it discrete.

Spy gate caused an insane media shitstorm because most of the information that was initially used was hyperbolic in nature. The Patriots broke the rules because they were stealing signals from a non sanctioned position. That's it, that's all it was. Before 2006 it was legal to go where ever the fuck you wanted to steal signals.

And guess who ratted them out for doing something that was still legal, but just doing it in the wrong spot, the Jets. The Jets were doing it too, but the Jets caught the Pats and created one of the biggest non issues ever in the NFL. Even to this day false information about the Pats taping the Rams practice is thrown around as proof, just showing how much stupid mis-informed garbage came out of the coverage of this event. Or my favorite "THEY BURNED DA TAPES", even though media members saw all the evidence during the press debriefing.

And all of that stupid shit has created the notion that the Pats are "perpetual cheaters", that everything they do is completely tarnished and the leagues integrity is damaged solely from the Patriots actions.

But nope, the Patriots are literally destroying the integrity of the NFL and tarnished it for the past 15 years.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
The fucking 49'ers won 3 rings with Rice admittedly using stick'um during that run. I don't see anyone calling for those rings to be taken back or an asterisk put into the record books. I don't see anyone calling for the Broncos to give back the rings after they were caught skirting the cap when they won the Superbowl.

Did the Pats deflate those balls, most likely. I personally think they did, there is too much evidence to deny it. But even during the investigations I was reading about other QB's fucking with the balls and another long time QB even talk about deflating the balls and saying it was common practice.

Teams pipe in fake noise and constantly disrupt headset communications. Teams used to fuck with the balls that the opponent teams were using before each team used their own balls.

I see proof of cheating everywhere in the league, you can't deny it. Cheating has always happened and will always happen, every team right now has PED laced super humans, but the league and people don't care as long as you keep face and pretend it's not happening.

Seriously, it's like baseball. Everyone was doping, nobody cared because for a long time people weren't testing positive, then the cat was out of the bag and the illusion was broken. Every pitcher is using some type of illegal grip stashed either on their glove or in their asshole, nobody cares as long as you pretend it's not happening and try to keep it discrete.

Spy gate caused an insane media shitstorm because most of the information that was initially used was hyperbolic in nature. The Patriots broke the rules because they were stealing signals from a non sanctioned position. That's it, that's all it was. Before 2006 it was legal to go where ever the fuck you wanted to steal signals.

And guess who ratted them out for doing something that was still legal, but just doing it in the wrong spot, the Jets. The Jets were doing it too, but the Jets caught the Pats and created one of the biggest non issues ever in the NFL. Even to this day false information about the Pats taping the Rams practice is thrown around as proof, just showing how much stupid mis-informed garbage came out of the coverage of this event. Or my favorite "THEY BURNED DA TAPES", even though media members saw all the evidence during the press debriefing.

And all of that stupid shit has created the notion that the Pats are "perpetual cheaters", that everything they do is completely tarnished and the leagues integrity is damaged solely from the Patriots actions.

But nope, the Patriots are literally destroying the integrity of the NFL and tarnished it for the past 15 years.
Click to expand...

dude.... let it go.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
And all of that stupid shit has created the notion that the Pats are "perpetual cheaters", that everything they do is completely tarnished and the leagues integrity is damaged solely from the Patriots actions.
Click to expand...

The Patriots being perpetual cheaters is what has created the notion that they are perpetual cheaters.
 
Quotient said:
Instead, the report walks a middle ground of saying we don't have enough evidence but what we have makes us think he did it - the "probably more than not" conclusion, which to me sounds like a "we are 51% confident he did".
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Again, this is not unusual in this language. It is the normal standard for liability in civil actions -- preponderance of the evidence. It's not a middle ground

Preponderance of the evidence, also known as balance of probabilities is the standard required in most civil cases, and in family court determinations solely involving money, such as child support under the Child Support Standards Act.

The standard is met if the proposition is more likely to be true than not true. Effectively, the standard is satisfied if there is greater than 50 percent chance that the proposition is true. Lord Denning, in Miller v. Minister of Pensions,[7] described it simply as "more probable than not." Until 1970, this was also the standard used in juvenile court in the United States.
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It could be 51% or 100% -- using this language doesn't tell you anything about that; it's just saying that this was the burden of proof and it was met (51%+). It's all they set out to show:

Under the Policy, the “standard of proof required to find that a violation of the competitive rules has occurred” is a “Preponderance of the Evidence,” meaning that “as a whole, the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not.”
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Even if they were 100% the conclusion would still say that they met this standard
 
Elwood Blues said:
The Patriots being perpetual cheaters is what has created the notion that they are perpetual cheaters.
Click to expand...

This guy gets it. There's no vast conspiracy to piss on the Patriots. Not any more than there are concerted efforts to piss on any other successful franchise.

The legacies of Belichick and Brady are tarnished. Deal with it.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
The fucking 49'ers won 3 rings with Rice admittedly using stick'um during that run. I don't see anyone calling for those rings to be taken back or an asterisk put into the record books. I don't see anyone calling for the Broncos to give back the rings after they were caught skirting the cap when they won the Superbowl.

Did the Pats deflate those balls, most likely. I personally think they did, there is too much evidence to deny it. But even during the investigations I was reading about other QB's fucking with the balls and another long time QB even talk about deflating the balls and saying it was common practice.

Teams pipe in fake noise and constantly disrupt headset communications. Teams used to fuck with the balls that the opponent teams were using before each team used their own balls.

I see proof of cheating everywhere in the league, you can't deny it. Cheating has always happened and will always happen, every team right now has PED laced super humans, but the league and people don't care as long as you keep face and pretend it's not happening.

Seriously, it's like baseball. Everyone was doping, nobody cared because for a long time people weren't testing positive, then the cat was out of the bag and the illusion was broken. Every pitcher is using some type of illegal grip stashed either on their glove or in their asshole, nobody cares as long as you pretend it's not happening and try to keep it discrete.

Spy gate caused an insane media shitstorm because most of the information that was initially used was hyperbolic in nature. The Patriots broke the rules because they were stealing signals from a non sanctioned position. That's it, that's all it was. Before 2006 it was legal to go where ever the fuck you wanted to steal signals.

And guess who ratted them out for doing something that was still legal, but just doing it in the wrong spot, the Jets. The Jets were doing it too, but the Jets caught the Pats and created one of the biggest non issues ever in the NFL. Even to this day false information about the Pats taping the Rams practice is thrown around as proof, just showing how much stupid mis-informed garbage came out of the coverage of this event. Or my favorite "THEY BURNED DA TAPES", even though media members saw all the evidence during the press debriefing.

And all of that stupid shit has created the notion that the Pats are "perpetual cheaters", that everything they do is completely tarnished and the leagues integrity is damaged solely from the Patriots actions.

But nope, the Patriots are literally destroying the integrity of the NFL and tarnished it for the past 15 years.
Click to expand...

And 9/11 was an inside job.
 
bionic77 said:
Montana will always known be for the catch and that TD pass to Taylor to win the SB.

Brady's signature plays? Tuck rule, deflating footballs and being a cheating cunt.
Click to expand...

Not to mention:

1.Montana had endured the greatest QB controversy ever

2. Get injured during the NFC championship

3. Sat in the sidelines while Young struggled in a playoff game

4. Ditched by the 49ers

5. Took the Chiefs to the AFC Championship

6. Retired the year the 49ers won their fifth Super Bowl.

It'd possible he could have won two more Super Bowls if not for the injury and the 49ers treating him badly.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
Yea, it's really annoying in these threads.

"fuck the pats and all their fans, cheating cunts".

"Well fuck you too, you're just salty"

"Oh man Pats fans can't even agree with us, see, they are delusional idiots who back a cheating team!"

I mean, what other responses do people think they are going to get out of this stuff?

No point in trying if all you get is venom, so fuck it, salt gifs forever!



See what I mean?
Click to expand...


No? My post that you quoted doesn't illustrate your scenario at all. Keep fucking that persecution complex chicken.
 
Ok I just read the whole 250 page investigation and I saw no facts, I saw probable. I hope everyone who is calling the Pats guilty over a probablitity would have no problem being convicted of a crime if you probably did it
 
EASTC0AST_GH05T said:
Ok I just read the whole 250 page investigation and I saw no facts, I saw probable. I hope everyone who is calling the Pats guilty over a probablitity would have no problem being convicted of a crime if you probably did it
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This isn't a criminal case where anyone was hurt. This is more similar to a civil case where yes you will be found liable if it's determined you probably did it.
 
No wonder Tom Brady threw us the horseshit "spending time with family" excuse when the Patriots visited the Obama White House last week and he was conspicuously absent. White House probably knew he was guilty and didn't want that stain dribbling all over sacred ground.
 
Incognito said:
No wonder Tom Brady threw us the horseshit "spending time with family" excuse when the Patriots visited the Obama White House last week and he was conspicuously absent. White House probably knew he was guilty and didn't want that stain dribbling all over sacred ground.
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lmao

Obama did make a funny about it to Belichick
 
VicDaMoan03 said:
This isn't a criminal case where anyone was hurt. This is more similar to a civil case where yes you will be found liable if it's determined you probably did it.
Click to expand...
Isn't the penalty in a civil case, more often than not (or maybe always?), a cash settlement or some amount of money? Fine Brady, fix the dumbass rule that even allows the team to mess with the game balls before the game, and keep it moving. If all the other instances where someone cheated to gain a competitive advantage weren't a big deal, (i.e. vaseline on the jerseys, cooking spray on the arms/jerseys, stickum on the gloves) then this shouldn't be either.

Let's move on. Titans fan here. We were brutally humiliated in the snow up in New England a few years back. Probably had deflated footballs then. Didn't make them untackleable, indefensible, or better on defense. They were just better.

Tired of this faux outrage over pretty much nothing that hasn't been done for decades, simply because it is the Patriots.

EDIT: I do find it very strange that they released the report, presumably, days before they planned on releasing the penalty. I think they are either attempting to gauge the outcry from the public, or they are trying to figure how to word this extremely light, if any, punishment they're about to hand down.
 
entrement said:
You're kidding yourself if you think there will be no punishments.
Click to expand...

Punishment shouldn't be more than a low six figure fine on Brady and maybe a game or two suspension tops. The Pats should also get a monetary fine, bigger than Brady's, but that's it.
 
Give War A Chance said:
Tired of this faux outrage over pretty much nothing that hasn't been done for decades, simply because it is the Patriots.
Click to expand...

Some of the mental gymnastics from Pats fans is entertaining.

effzee said:
This guy gets it. Breaking the rules only counts if the game was close. Cheating doesn't count if it was a blowout.
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Never mind the implication that this was potentially going on for years per the text messages.
 
VicDaMoan03 said:
This isn't a criminal case where anyone was hurt. This is more similar to a civil case where yes you will be found liable if it's determined you probably did it.
Click to expand...

If the report were like a civil case it would have been dismissed within seconds, given that it ignores scientific explanations (denying that the process of rubbing the balls results in a larger psi drop even though every independently conducted experiment has verified this to be true), makes a mockery of the scientific process by failing to document the initial readings, failing to test all of the Colts' balls at halftime and failing to conduct the test in a properly controlled environment, and most importantly, contains zero tangible evidence whatsoever to support its conclusion.
 
msdstc said:
dude.... let it go.
Click to expand...

Dude that was a great post. People keep going on and on about Patriots fans being salty or what have you, but when you read that post, how can you really disagree with any of it? I'm from New England, but I actually don't even like the Patriots that much because I'm always annoyed by all the media attention they get while the Celtics are barely talked about. Part of me honestly can't wait until this "dynasty" is over, but this whole SpyGate and DeflateGate crap is completely overblown.

They're breaking the rules, but why do other fans have trouble acknowledging the fact that a bunch of teams cheat/break rules in the present and past? I don't see why the Patriots deserve to have the book thrown at them with asterisks applied to their rings while other teams/players who have practically admitted to cheating get by without any hate thrown at them. Logically this makes no sense.

Also, the logic and process used in this report was so flawed. I think that's what annoys me the most about all of this plus all this media coverage. The whole investigation goes out the window, imo, the second you start talking about "assumed" PSI values before the game started. You can't compare assumed values to actual measured values and legitimately come to any decent conclusion. The only fishy stuff is the text messages, and imo, that is enough to say something wrong went down. The conclusions they draw from the PSI levels is so flawed and sloppy, though. It's meh.
 
This line from Brady's agent lol

What does it say about the league office’s protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-bradys-agent-statement-deflategate-report-2015-5
 
Big-E said:
So the NFL did the same experiment on their own? I don't see that in the report.
Click to expand...

Yes; Appendix 1

rjc571 said:
If the report were like a civil case it would have been dismissed within seconds, given that it ignores scientific explanations (denying that the process of rubbing the balls results in a larger psi drop even though every independently conducted experiment has verified this to be true), makes a mockery of the scientific process by failing to document the initial readings, failing to test all of the Colts' balls at halftime and failing to conduct the test in a properly controlled environment, and most importantly, contains zero tangible evidence whatsoever to support its conclusion.
Click to expand...

You do know Aaron Hernandez was also convicted on purely circumstantial evidence, right?

Also, you need to read that giant ass Appendix 1 - because it beats the science down. It's unbelievably scientifically sound. They absolutely nail the Patriots on the "science!!!" excuse.

Wonder if they'll punish Brady more for cheating then they would for someone smoking weed.
 
At the end of the day Brady still has 4 rings, and still will be enshrined in the HOF. Oh yeah, he also happens to be married to one of the highest (if not the highest) paid models of all time. So yeah, hate away. He don't give a shit nor should he.
 
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