Splatoon Global Testfire Demo Schedule and Info Thread (https://youtu.be/l4UFQWKjy_I)
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This has been a discussion for Monster Hunter since 2004.
Well, if you're dead, there isn't all that much 'actual game' going on anyway.
In friendly ink, they're fast; in enemy ink, they're very slow. If you're currently in so much danger that you're surrounded by enemy ink so a squid can sneak up on you quickly, you probably ought to be getting rid of that ink, not looking at the map. Not because you're in danger if you look at the map, though, but because getting rid of that ink is your objective.
If they're doing that, make it not their ink.
In short: If you're in too much danger to look at the map, you shouldn't need to be looking at the map.
At least for Turf War, that is. There's a reasonable possibility that other modes are more dependent on using the map on the fly.
"To me" is very, very useful to call for backup and help other players know where they should be super jumping to. It also triggers a sound on the gamepad and shows up on the map (I think), so you know when someone is calling.
It could have the option of bringing up the map and when the map is up, the D-Pad would be assigned to teammate positions. It's slower and clunkier than looking down and touching, but it could work.
Which Amiibo do you think will unlock each of the respective 8 bit minigames?
It's SQUID RACER!!! SQUIIIIIIIID RACERRRRRR!!!
BassForever
Member
The Souls games as well especially when Demon Soul's was first released.
RichardKSJ
Member
There was one song where it was just low pitched yelling and my friends were just going "What?" with a chuckle. One of them made a joke I can't remember but it was kinda funny.
Magicman103
Member
Same. My frothing demand for the new Rhythm Heaven makes me want this pretty badly.
I imagine it would be super fun to play between matches.
TheNoblePirate
Member
Tomb Raider has sparked enough debates on whether its controls are the work of the devil or not.
I'm disappointed that I haven't had an opportunity to participate in this test at all, but reading the impressions in this thread for a while has convinced me this game should be more on my radar than it was before...what was once curiosity, has turned into true desire to try it for myself.
Refreshment.01
Member
Every Wii FPS that had a decent amount of options. Some people didn't want to actually aim and prefered aligning shots with the thumb with the generous aim assist.
And of course there's RE 4 Wii edition, that had "the worst controls ever" because it was too easy to aim wherever you wanted. As everyone here knows, hardcore FPS players use ball mice because anything else is just too easy XD
We all know the thruth, people that suck think the games control badly people that actually know what they're doing know the controls are great.
yeah maybe, I just always knew where best to go anyway by checking the map haha ;p
anyway I'm just humoring the different setups that could accommodate other players. I honestly prefer having the map in my hands and touching to super jump. I also prefer having the TV screen as clean as possible so those work together.
So there's never any situation when 2 fronts of ink could be right next to each other with ink's hiding and you'd look at the minimap to check if any inklings are active?
As for your first point - you're not understanding. The respawn screen is talking about superjumping in being locked to your gamepad - it would be the same as Battlefield 3 with the map feed and scrolling.
You're relying on me being a bad player and not looking at it logically - the minimap has no purpose being on the gamepad and looking away is poor game design. Anyone could get killed checking the minimap on their crotch instead of glancing aside - which takes no time at all. There's a reason the most popular games all have the minimap on the screen and not on an external device.
Lastly, even if you ink when someone's superjumping right to you - they can ink briefly in the air. They can land and stomp you on the head with a roller. All of these could happen quite commonly.
To be fair, it is possible for a game to just control badly. That's rather the problem. Uncharted 3 aiming at launch springs to mind.
RichardKSJ
Member
Isn't that the case for any game ever with difficult yet rewarding controls?
Pretty sure enemy inkings don't show up on the minimap unless a teammate has los. Maybe not even then. Not sure what governs enemies on the map.
Mat-triX
Member
I remember people complaining about how The Conduit didn't have Classic Controller support, and when Goldeneye did support Classic Controller, they would complain that people with Wii-motes had an unfair advantage...
PreyingShark
Member
I did give it what I thought was a fair shot. I got to the point where I could play the game fine with it and shit. It's not like I tried it for just the tutorial and then immediately switched.
I don't like it and think it's inferior in my case because A) my brain does not work that way, B) my hands are not steady at all while my thumbs are super fucking steady, and C) I think the gyro controls here are less precise, not more precise. Wiimote controls would be more precise, though, and also really broken.
In games like Dota and League you learn as much about the game from who's missing on the map as from who's seen on the map. That's white I was talking about. It's even easier in this I think since you can see movements through paint.
lol.. reminds me of when I briefly played black ops 2 on the wii-u
dual analog users always raged at me for killing them with a wii remote.
IR > dual analog. and on the topic of splatoon, so is gyro. they're both just so much faster, precise, and responsive.
just to point out again super jumping isn't limited to just respawing, it's a critical part of the game that should be utilized fairly often
indeed, because those games aren't on a console that has a screen on the controller.
James Scott
Banned
I thought the motion controls were wonderful. I feel that a lot of people just have it in their mind that they hate motion controls so they are expecting them to be awful so they don't even give them a try.
Gyro controls have been the best advancement in controller input since the analog stick, it's really amazing for aiming.
Gyro controls have been the best advancement in controller input since the analog stick, it's really amazing for aiming.
there's definitely a perception issue with them. people like what's familiar.
just to point out again super jumping isn't limited to just respawing, it's a critical part of the game that should be utilized fairly often
indeed, because those games aren't on a console that has a screen on the controller.
They're on an even less limited medium (PC) that could require it in another window ;P
And I would just hope for the screen to fade in quickly. That's the least of my issues - I just find it tiresome to shoehorn things onto the gamepad when other games have done it just as well. Change for the sake of change frustrate's me after 343 took over Halo hah.
I only played it once and I want it yesterday.
As for everyone, this is what it's like in BF3. Make this the respawn screen with a live feed of the minimap and just have you scroll between teammates with the joystick or even the d-pad. You can spawn on the diamonds. If it really takes you that much longer to scroll through 1-3 alive teammates than it does to look down and push a button, something may be up with your reflexes.
What about Mid-Game? You would have to open that Map up, making yourself vulnerable, then Super Jump.
With the GamePad Map, you can run away while finding a good place to fly away to.
I survived many battles by moving away from the enemy while looking down a tab to find a place to transport.
Lern2Eyes. ;D
James Scott
Banned
I'm guessing it's because people relate waggle to motion controls, which is usually pretty bad/imprecise in comparison to a button press, but gyro is a lot different.
Had a guy on Twitter saying he wasn't going to play Splatoon if there wasn't an option to disable gyro controls, when he played the demo he tried it for a bit in the tutorial and turned them right off.
and then he proceeded to score considerably less than people that stuck to the gyro controls
Mat-triX
Member
I think a major thing people keep forgetting when they say "Just have a mini map on the TV" is that you need to see THE WHOLE MAP, Not just what is near by you. How can you have a view of the whole map on the tv - with each map varying in size and shape - take up a corner of the screen and not have it take up significant screen space?
Anyone use headphones when they played? I don't normally wear headphones when playing games, it feels weird but I kinda had to earlier this morning since everyone was asleep. Headphones work really well for Splatoon. I was more aware of my surroundings and where sounds were coming. Not sure if it improved my game, though I doubt it did as I was still waking up but being more aware did keep me alert and ready.
nah, a touch screen on a controller is really convenient for a console. I'd imagine if the controller ergonomics were more to your liking you'd eventually feel the same too. it's literally a standard controller with more options. it's one of those things you didn't know you needed until you have it and go back to an older console and realize how grating some things can be that we used to just accept.
The funny thing is its not. Its literally 7 separate "digital buttons", 3 that do not stay in the same place and 3 optional (you can click the character icons on the right side) across a 4" by 2" interface. With a single screen option you could, for example, press a button to bring up the map, it would cover the whole screen. This would simulate looking down to focus on the map. On the map are your teammates running around with button icons showing which button is which player and the spawn point. Press the button to super jump. This could be done just as quick as looking down and tapping the screen. It would accurately recreate the conflict of dividing attention between 2 screens. To place the ink nuke special you just drag it around with the right stick. It would be slower but serviceable. The only thing really lost is the "cool factor" of actually having the map in your hand.
I've explained this multiple times across multiple threads and I think this will be my last. If people want to continue to act like it wouldn't work then go right ahead.
You get it but you're not taking it to the root. The interplay at it's base is not of "Gamepad and TV" but of "Screen 1 and Screen 2". That type of conflict can be achieved on a single screen and many games have already done it. All that's lost is the novelty of looking to the gamepad.
The option for both would be good.
RichardKSJ
Member
I didn't but now I do. I did notice in the training area you can hear the squelch of walking through ink, so that can help with noticing tailing you if you are listening for that.
Well...
Blue and Orange:
Blue and Orange:
We kept making that joke whenever the match up was Orange vs Blue.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
I'm gonna be super pissed if I can't put jump on the B button, I hate it on Y! -_-
I'm not sure which part of my post you're responding to with this.
Well, first, I've written quite extensively a few times that impeding the player is not necessarily poor game design. Not that I'm sure it applies here, but I tend to be open-minded about things like that anyway.
Second, in the case of that BF3 situation, I'm not particularly familiar with Battlefield, but I thought the games had way more than nine players per side!
And third, I still think it's faster and more intuitive to tap the precise spot on the map you want to go to than it is to select a target from a menu. When I die in Splatoon, I am *immediately* looking at the map, picking a spot, and I'm tapping the nearest squid before I even respawn. I don't feel particularly inconvenienced by having to look at the controller to do so.
For the super jump can you not only do it at base on the launchpad? If you can do it in the middle of the battlefield I would agree that you'd be at risk but if you're in base you're safe unless its a complete stomp.
Most all of it. My point is that the act of taking your eyes off the screen no matter where you are (excluding in base) puts you in unnecessary danger due to minimap being shoehorned onto the gamepad. They did it in MK8 in the beginning, and while that is less offensive I still think it's poor design.
The games in Battlefield do, but you're divided into squads - so your squad gets priority/can only be chosen at times from what I remember. It worked fine there and with less players on teams it would be even less of an impediment here. As I mentioned before, I think this is less of an issue but I'd also say it's a matter of opinion - I think it's stupid and them forcefeeding the gamepad down our throats when I purchased a Wii U Pro with the purpose of getting away from the least ergonomic controller in the world.
With DDR I disagree - the genres and mediums are too different to compare. The main purpose for any outsider is to dance your way to a highscore. The only impediments are your skill and the rhythm. With Splatoon you face other players and the map as your impediment. The game is fast enough that looking down at the gamepad could get you killed by anything - an easy example of this would be a sniper or a cross map wail. With this game design I'm being impeded by not only other players and the map, but also the controller that's supposed to be how I communicate with my game.
I tend to use headphones when I'm playing anything alone, you can hear everything soo much better and that includes the music.
Maybe for some players that's the case, but myself and many others dislike the gyro aiming because it's simply not as good as IR aiming with the remote.
The remote was a far better advancement for shooters. It's faster, more precise, requires less movement/less fatiguing, and doesn't ever need recalibration. Gyro aiming, while better than dual analog, is sluggish and clumsy in comparison to the remote + nunchuk.
if people want to intentionally handicap themselves by sticking to less effective control schemes out of familiarity/unwillingness to adapt more power to them
and more points/easy targets for the rest of the gyro users
PadWarrior
Member
As someone who played shooters using Analog for years, I gave the gyro controls a go. Didn't feel comfortable to me and I wasn't doing well at all. Switched them off and I was doing much better and playing like I normally do in shooters. I don't think either scheme has an advantage over the other. It all comes down to what one feels comfortable with. Analog control is like second nature me and thus my reaction time was much better using that than gyro.
The 3 creators of Splatoon were in the lab coats and played online as well. They are too good it's scary and I'm envious lol
http://youtu.be/PjpcbDmDSEA
http://youtu.be/PjpcbDmDSEA
RichardKSJ
Member
Was hoping to run into them but never did, I wouldn't have minded getting my ass kicked if it meant I could play against them.
Yeah anytime, you can also return to the spawn point at anytime.
HAH.
You can do it anywhere.
Do rollers make a sound effect?
Zombegoast
Member
Well...
Blue and Orange:
Blue and Orange:
It also didn't include voice chat on PC.
yeah but you only have to press one of them, that being the single input. like, I'm all for options and I'm not saying it wouldn't work it's just the way it's set up now seems objectively more convenient. at least where I'm sitting. still nothing wrong with options for those that want them though, definitely not what I'm trying to say.
I told you that twice ;p haha
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