Support NeoGAF

[Jotamide]

When it all comes down to it, this is how I feel, too. Two out of three of the people I wanted on this project are on it, so I'm still happy.

Exactly! DoS and PoR have awful generic art and are great Iga games ffs.

Fuck all the people whining that this is not 2D. Don't come in saying that "now you're not gonna pledge" because you probably didn't even mean to in the first place. And to everyone comparing it to MN9: fuck you twice as much. Inti Creates creates games with great gameplay above everything. Gunvolt being of the worst IC games still was one of my GOTYs and I'm looking forward to the sequel. To me, gameplay, music, and art is what defines Castlevania. And we're getting two thirds of that equation so I'll gladly take it.

 

[A-V-B]

Guys, Ori and the mother flipping blind forest is a 2.5D Metroidvania and was made by a very small team by guys from all over the world. They didn't even work in the same building. Yet, it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.

2.5D can look fantastic if passion and effort is put into it.

That being said, I am a huge Castlevania fan and I realize that this is a different game, but I am not a fan of the art direction I've seen so far. But that is subjective.

If RotN looked anything like this, even in the concept art, I'd feel more positive about this.

But this is not some Ori/Rayman Legends stuff, so who knows.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I was debating backing it, but I backed two already this month and I don't own a PS4 or Xbox One.

This is quite literally my dream game. Like, I envisioned a game that I wanted to make, some day, as a pipe dream sort of project, that worked like contra but as a metroid style game, and had multiple map layers. I remember it like it was yesterday but I came up with that concept like 12-13 years ago.

Spoiler

ideas are cheap, implementation is expensive.

I might be misunderstanding, but if I'm not, it sounds like you can find this idea in the Shantae games, Mutant Mudds, and Virtual Boy Wario Land!

 

[Durante]

This seems like one of the things they will slowly reveal over the KS period to keep hype levels up and just forgot to remove from the pitch video.

That could be it.

 

[OnPoint]

Those interested in the logo design:

Ask the dude that designed it

 

[Crocodile]

OoE (The best modern CV game) took a huge step away from the anime influence.

Order of Ecclesia is great artistically, I agree. It's still "anime" though (as in made in Japan with clear Japanese influences). Like anime/manga (as well as the general brush of "Western") cover a wide range. It's fine if you think some of it is shit but just because you like it doesn't stop making it "anime".

Buzzwords? I don't recall using any, actually. And yeah, big titted.

And it looks a lot more like this:

Than this:

Even leaving aside the boilerplate, boneless anime faces, it's the costume and color choices that really feel less elegant and mature. We would have been better served by more black, gold, and crimson and less puce, magenta, and teal. More attention to period costume and less to modern pop stars and lingerie. This stuff's supposed to be Gothic, so go past mall goth make it Gothic.

Yeah I don't want to straight out say "get your eyes checked" but I'm at a loss for a gentler way of putting it. The concept art looks nothing like what was used in Dawn of Sorrow nor is big-titted or a school girl or whatever a remotely accurate description. Like you are factually wrong. If you just wanted a different, darker color palate I think that's completely reasonable but the other stuff you said borders on nonsense.

Then why mention him in the backer video if he's just a stretch goal.

Also, the lines in the video where he says there will be more enemies, weapons, etc if he gets more money... where are the stretch goals for those? Those are HANDS down more important to me than hayter voice acting or a harder difficulty.

This is a great point. I really hoped they aren't at the tier beyond Hayter voice acting (is that really a sell to people?)

 

[dlauv]

A regal female protagonist who isn't scantily clad.

And a sword. And a whip.

And 2D.5.

I'm pretty excited. Loved the promo vid.

I think asking for western gothic conventions is a little harsh considering the Malice Mizer goth-infused baroque/visual kei aesthetic that is so predominant in that country.

Then again, I'm also against the idea. I liked Castlevania 1's color scheme the most: pinks and purples and oranges and blacks and greens.

 

[Savitar]

Why am I not surprised people are bickering about the art direction. If it's one thing fans of Castlevania do not do well is get along with each other.

 

[Vire]

Guys, Ori and the mother flipping blind forest is a 2.5D Metroidvania and was made by a very small team by guys from all over the world. They didn't even work in the same building. Yet, it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.


2.5D can look fantastic if passion and effort is put into it.

That being said, I am a huge Castlevania fan and I realize that this is a different game, but I am not a fan of the art direction I've seen so far. But that is subjective.

Yeah I don't really have a problem with 2.5D at all. Child of Light is also incredibly beautiful.

It's the actual art direction that's bothering me. Hopefully they reveal more before the KS is ended.

 

[Jotamide]

When will they reveal who is helping to publish this?

Anyone but Nicalis or Ubisoft please.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

It's nothing like Daggerfall.

You should really play Valkyrie Profile and see what it's really like.

It's exactly like Castlevania 2D maps, but you could just have room that go into the foreground and background as an additional layer.

Or at least see a video of dungeon exploration if you can't play it.

Wasn't that how Goonies II worked?

 

[K.Sabot]

Lol Egoraptor making Ben explain that Rogue Legacy creator's previous project was a game about not shitting your pants.

 

[Sesha]

I think Iga made a mistake not getting Ayami Kojima or Masaki Hirooka (Order of Ecclesia). Any way, Miriam looks fine. I wish she looked more like Shanoa, though.

I'm not too sure about the Kickstarter. There are a few things bothering me:

- Lack of proof of concept gameplay
- Lack of notable talent on the dev team. Inti creates hasn't really proven themselves lately.
- No Kojima as mentioned
- Reference to nebulous 3rd party/publisher
- Lack of detailed stretch goals beyond David Hayter/voice acting. Let's face it, this will probably reach 2m.
- Overpriced tiers: $28 for the base game, $125 for a digital version added to the $100 boxed version, $250 for a collectors version, another $50+ for a signed collectors version, $750 for the $500 version + a message in the credits (what?!), $1500 for an in-game portrait, $2000 for an in-game weapon, $2500 for making your pet into an enemy, $5000 for an original enemy design, $8000 for an in-game secret room. Having looked at tons of other Kickstarter campaigns, none of these, especially the in-game content tiers, should be that expensive.

Also missed opportunity if there's no Boss Rush mode.

On a side-note, I like that Iga is playing through various indie Metroidvanias. Hopefully he uses them for inspiration/research. He should play Valdis Story for inspiration on the combat design, though Guacamelee is an excellent choice as well.

 

[theSlacker]

Then why mention him in the backer video if he's just a stretch goal.

Also, the lines in the video where he says there will be more enemies, weapons, etc if he gets more money... where are the stretch goals for those? Those are HANDS down more important to me than hayter voice acting or a harder difficulty.

I assumed he would just be part of the game as an npc if the stretch goal isn't met, and playable if it is. Think Maria's role from sotn.

Also there are going to be more stretch goals. Check the "Unlockable Items" section further down on the page. More goals will be unlocked when certain achievements are met.

 

[wrowa]

I'll never understand why people thought mock-ups / concept art was going to 100% parallel final game footage. It never does. Ever. If you look at early WoW models, or early God of War models, the game looks completely different. It's nearly impossible to show the audience what your game is going to absolutely look like before you've even made it.

No one thought that the concept art would look 100% like the final product. The issue is that the final game doesn't even look half as good as the concept art tried to made us believe. That's definitely a legitimate issue.

In the end, I don't mind Mighty No 9's graphics as long as the gameplay is good. Mega Man was never much about graphics anyway. However, I think that having great art in-game is definitely very important in CV games and I'd be extremely disappointed if Bloodstained ended up looking as lifeless as MN9. However, I don't think it will either way.

Hopefully.

 

[ZoddGutts]

I don't see why people are doubting this. Igarashi has an amazing track record.

Yeah, dude has worked on tight budgets too.

 

[Moaradin]

Guys, Ori and the mother flipping blind forest is a 2.5D Metroidvania and was made by a very small team by guys from all over the world. They didn't even work in the same building. Yet, it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.

2.5D can look fantastic if passion and effort is put into it.

That being said, I am a huge Castlevania fan and I realize that this is a different game, but I am not a fan of the art direction I've seen so far. But that is subjective.

Isn't everything in that game hand drawn? Sure, it's possible but it's an insane amount of work and would take a very long time.

 

[yoplay]

Up in this KS!!!

 

[Tom_Cody]

So good...

I 100%ed Rondo of Blood, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Lament of Innocence, Dawn of Sorrow, and Portrait of Ruin (I didn't 100% Symphony of the Night) but I never even completed Order of Ecclesia. By that time the fatigue had finally set in.

I don't even mind that Ritual of the Night isn't releasing until 2017 as that will give me time to complete Order of Ecclesia and sample some of the recent indy entries in the genre.

 

[DJIzana]

Why am I not surprised people are bickering about the art direction. If it's one thing fans of Castlevania do not do well is get along with each other.

That's one of the reasons I'm not backing it. Another is just because with recent Kickstarter projects we've seen from Japan, it's always conceptual art first, gameplay movies later and lately, I'm not really a fan of that. Seems shady. Look at Project Phoenix. Even Mighty No 9 has issues.

 

[Newtype-001]

Art design kinda reminds me of Muramasa Rebirth. not seeing anything wrong here. All for it.

 

[OnPoint]

...
- Lack of notable talent on the dev team. Inti creates hasn't really proven themselves lately.
...

I take issue with this.

The ZX games weren't bad. Mega Man 9 & 10 were both fun, though 9 is better. Gunvolt is technically solid and plays well, despite my not caring for it much.

I dislike the way MN9 looks as much as the next person. But that game doesn't kill the whole team for me. Inticreates has a decent enough track record that I'm not worried about that aspect, especially with IGA driving the boat.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think Iga made a mistake not getting Ayami Kojima or Masaki Hirooka (Order of Ecclesia). Any way, Miriam looks fine. I wish she looked more like Shanoa, though.

I'm not too sure about the Kickstarter. There are a few things bothering me:

- Lack of proof of concept gameplay
- Lack of notable talent on the dev team. Inti creates hasn't really proven themselves lately.
- No Kojima as mentioned
- Reference to nebulous 3rd party/publisher
- Lack of detailed stretch goals beyond David Hayter/voice acting. Let's face it, this will probably reach 2m.
- Overpriced tiers: $28 for the base game, $125 for a digital version added to the $100 boxed version, $250 for a collectors version, another $50+ for a signed collectors version, $750 for the $500 version + a message in the credits (what?!), $1500 for an in-game portrait, $2000 for an in-game weapon, $2500 for making your pet into an enemy, $5000 for an original enemy design, $8000 for an in-game secret room. Having looked at tons of other kickstart campaigns, none of these, especially the in-game content tiers, should be that expensive.

The stretch goals definitely seemed kind of "eh". Like Nightmare Difficulty for $100,000 more? Granted part of that is going to other parts of the game, but it doesn't really excite me, unless the mode changes a lot of stuff (level layouts, enemy placement, etc.).

 

[Korigama]

In anime there's several grades:

lucky star <<<<< clamp <<<<< Hirohiko Araki <<<<<< Kojima

So going from Kojima to clamp level is quite the downgrade, even if is still animu!

This looks nothing like Clamp's work.

OoE art was so good.

It was, but it also wasn't Kojima (I'm wondering how many remember that).

 

[genjiZERO]

Guys, Ori and the mother flipping blind forest is a 2.5D Metroidvania and was made by a very small team by guys from all over the world. They didn't even work in the same building. Yet, it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.

2.5D can look fantastic if passion and effort is put into it.

That being said, I am a huge Castlevania fan and I realize that this is a different game, but I am not a fan of the art direction I've seen so far. But that is subjective.

It's killing me that this is a MS only game. But hey, we got Bloodborne so there's that I guess.

This looks nothing like Clamp's work.

It was, but it also wasn't Kojima (I'm wondering how many remember that).

Yeah, any why diss Clamp too? They have that classic 90s style which most people hail as a golden age.

 

[kevm3]

Kickstarter has been great for the games industry. I was always wondering why more Japanese developers didn't go to it.

 

[JDSN]

Anyone but Nicalis or Ubisoft please.

Yup, theres too many ifs for me to back this, I almost got cockpunched by backing 90s arcade racer.

 

[orioto]

Guys, Ori and the mother flipping blind forest is a 2.5D Metroidvania and was made by a very small team by guys from all over the world. They didn't even work in the same building. Yet, it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.

2.5D can look fantastic if passion and effort is put into it.

That being said, I am a huge Castlevania fan and I realize that this is a different game, but I am not a fan of the art direction I've seen so far. But that is subjective.

It's not what people mean by 2.5D i think or there wouldn't be any problem. They're talking polygonal 3D here for the Iga game.

 

[wrowa]

- Overpriced tiers: $28 for the base game, $125 for a digital version added to the $100 boxed version, $250 for a collectors version, another $50+ for a signed collectors version, $750 for the $500 version + a message in the credits (what?!), $1500 for an in-game portrait, $2000 for an in-game weapon, $2500 for making your pet into an enemy, $5000 for an original enemy design, $8000 for an in-game secret room. Having looked at tons of other kickstart campaigns, none of these, especially the in-game content tiers, should be that expensive.

Eh. This isn't some epic RPG we're talking about here. The possibilities for in-game features like a secret room or a portrait of yourself are much more limited than in an epic RPG like Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

not gonna lie, I noticed them too and I didn't follow the KS. I was like "oh, here's the backer area"

Hate this stuff, but I guess people feel they need to do it in order to get pledges.

I especially dislike how much of it is in Pillars of Eternity. Outside of Evilore's portrait, it's all a bit trash.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This looks nothing like Clamp's work.

Clamp level as "ugh, at least is better than most LN cover artworks!"

 

[LiK]

It's killing me that this is a MS only game. But hey, we got Bloodborne so there's that I guess.

also on PC!

 

[Eusis]

Gawd.

Shovel Knight had something like that, but the portraits fit so well with the game's pixel art style you wouldn't even notice unless it was pointed out to you.

Its a problem with a dramatic stylistic change and no attempt to adapt period (or not enough of one anyway.) This is a bit closer to realistic, albeit very anime, so if they actually try harder to adapt it should be OK rather than "good god why".

 

[A Link to the Past]

Though I'm intrigued by the "Twitter followers = more bonuses!" Clever marketing right there.

 

[Crankshaft]

I checked the KS page earlier and it was at 5k and I thought "Oh I hope this is successful... I really don't want this to fail"

I went to lunch and came back and checked the KS page again....388K. Fears abated lol.

 

[Necromanti]

Why am I not surprised people are bickering about the art direction. If it's one thing fans of Castlevania do not do well is get along with each other.

There's not much else to discuss at this point given what they've shown so far, honestly.

 

[Jobbs]

Guys, Ori and the mother flipping blind forest is a 2.5D Metroidvania and was made by a very small team by guys from all over the world. They didn't even work in the same building. Yet, it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.

It's true that Ori is one of the best looking games ever made, and it's made by a relatively small team.

I'm not entirely sure if Ori is what I'd consider "2.5d" though -- I guess it technically is. The characters appear to be polygonal, and the environments are 2D painted assets rigged up in a 3d environment (Unity). That said, the environments could look similar to how they do now without it technically being designed in a 3D space. But I guess we're way out in the weeds now and it's merely an academic point.

After MN9 I have low confidence in Inti Creates when it comes to game visuals -- that's the bottom line.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Isn't everything in that game hand drawn? Sure, it's possible but it's an insane amount of work and would take a very long time.

So, if you are a fan of Castlevania, wouldn't you want them to work as hard as they could to make a game that you love? I mean you are paying for it lol. Like I said, the guys that worked on Ori where a very small team. As long as the gameplay is solid the art should complement it. I would even go so far to say that terrific art and graphics can raise already solid gameplay to another level.

 

[Eusis]

I checked the KS page earlier and it was at 5k and I thought "Oh I hope this is successful... I really don't want this to fail"

I went to lunch and came back and checked the KS page again....388K. Fears abated lol.

Ones like this leave more worried about stretch goals than anything else.

 

[genjiZERO]

also on PC!

I have a Mac

 

[Nudull]

Well, damn. Guess I'm going in for the physical PS4 version.

Everything so far sounds great, though the MC's design could be a little better (I hate that it repeats some of the same design quirks I hated in characters like Shanoa, though it isn't as bad in this case).

 

[Grief.exe]

I have a Mac

Oops

 

[Vire]

So, if you are a fan of Castlevania, wouldn't you want them to work as hard as they could to make a game that you love? I mean you are paying for it lol. Like I said, the guys that worked on Ori where a very small team. As long as the gameplay is solid the art should complement it. I would even go so far to say that terrific art and graphics can raise already solid gameplay to another level.

While I'm with you, Ori had a development period of four years....

Child of Light also had a relatively huge team to pull off the hand drawn 2.5D art style for that game in a short period of time.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

115,000 more to go!

Welcom back Iga!

 

[LiK]

I have a Mac

welp

 

[Bass260]

I want to back this so bad but I'll have no way to play it best of luck IGA.

 

[Instro]

Then why mention him in the backer video if he's just a stretch goal.

Also, the lines in the video where he says there will be more enemies, weapons, etc if he gets more money... where are the stretch goals for those? Those are HANDS down more important to me than hayter voice acting or a harder difficulty.

That would already be included as part of increased funding. Stretch goals are designed to add features while raising money to make a game bigger/better.

 

[Blizzard]

Is this the right thread to talk about the stream http://www.twitch.tv/kindafunnygames)? Rogue Legacy apparently ended, though I don't know if they won or just gave up.

I'm hoping the Gaucamelee speedrun is next.

 

[wrowa]

Anyone but Nicalis or Ubisoft please.

I don't think Nicalis has ever done a retail release before, so I doubt they are behind this.

 

[OmegaDL50]

All of this talk about anime and not anime.

I think for many honestly don't think the word means what they think it means.

I find it baffling that people go on to say that SOTN doesn't look "anime"

Yet it's heaviest influence if anything is from an Anime film.

Spoiler

Vampire Hunter D

.

Which of these three images would consider is Anime, and which is not?

Spoiler

Surprise~ They all are

Castlevania had varied artstyles, hell even the very first game in the series had a Boris Vallejo style Western comic book look.

I think the word they REALLY are trying to use is gothic.

Portrait of Ruin and Dawn of Sorrow didn't really have the darker gothic tone that some of the CV titles have, they relied more on a brighter color palette for it's character designs.