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[ampere]

You think 9 hrs is bad? Try 2-3 days Anyway, I broke it off with that one because she was a robot (and her excuse was 'I just don't check the phone lol' - paraphrasing)

Damn, son. Yea I know this girl checks her phone at least a bit, sometimes she texts me back immediately it's jut really sporadic.

I'm not feeling the whole "you don't exist to me when we aren't on a date" thing. I think she's just too busy for me or something. Probably will move on unless there's a good reason she hasn't been replying.

"plz reply"

 

[MonorailCat]

So on Thursday we did that, and we hit it off really well. I ended up staying the night (no sex, just cuddles), so I'm thinking it went well on both ends. Keeping my excitement tempered after last time (lol), though, .

Interesting to hear the other side. Every time I had a girl over for movies or cooking and she "only" wanted to kiss and cuddle, I always thought that she was not really attracted to me.

 

[gaiages]

Interesting to hear the other side. Every time I had a girl over for movies or cooking and she "only" wanted to kiss and cuddle, I always thought that she was not really attracted to me.

Well, I will mention that I clearly stated the reasons why I didn't want to take it too far (mainly I injured my knee/ankle a week ago and makes me unable to do much in terms of flexible physical activity and I'm

Spoiler

allergic to latex and didn't have the right condom size with me >.>

) and he understood, so maybe my situation's a bit different from the norm.

On the flip side though, in general I feel like the 'only kiss and cuddle' thing might be dependent on a few things, like how many dates you two have been on and how shy/outgoing the girl is. They could be not interested, sure, but they can also be nervous/want to take it slow, too. :3 I feel it depends more on the context of the choice than the actual choice itself.

 

[electricshake]

Interesting to hear the other side. Every time I had a girl over for movies or cooking and she "only" wanted to kiss and cuddle, I always thought that she was not really attracted to me.

First time I stayed at my bfs we just kissed and spooned, because I didn't want to rush things. It definitely wasn't because I wasn't attracted to him.

 

[MonorailCat]

On the flip side though, in general I feel like the 'only kiss and cuddle' thing might be dependent on a few things, like how many dates you two have been on and how shy/outgoing the girl is. They could be not interested, sure, but they can also be nervous/want to take it slow, too. :3 I feel it depends more on the context of the choice than the actual choice itself.

This time it was on the second date. Movie, lots of kissing and some touchy feely cuddling, no sleepover because of work. But since it was the only second date and there was no sleepover I think it's still a resonable pace and no need to overanalyze yet.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

For what it's worth, my girlfriend and I text each other like clockwork.

I think it's something you should bring up if communication is sporadic.

 

[gaiages]

This time it was on the second date. Movie, lots of kissing and some touchy feely cuddling, no sleepover because of work. But since it was the only second date and there was no sleepover I think it's still a resonable pace and no need to overanalyze yet.

Yeah, that doesn't sound too bad, I wouldn't overthink it yet

 

[ampere]

I texted her and said I would appreciate more prompt replies and she said had fun, but she doesn't think we're a good match. I'm sad, but at least she was honest.

I'll sulk a bit then maybe do something fun tonight to get it off my mind.

 

[davepoobond]

I texted her and said I would appreciate more prompt replies and she said had fun, but she doesn't think we're a good match. I'm sad, but at least she was honest.

I'll sulk a bit then maybe do something fun tonight to get it off my mind.

sounds like she's too busy to have an actual boyfriend

 

[grap3fruitman]

I texted her and said I would appreciate more prompt replies and she said had fun, but she doesn't think we're a good match. I'm sad, but at least she was honest..

Came off too needy here.

 

[Zonic]

sounds like she's too busy to have an actual boyfriend

I really hope this doesn't become the case for me. I texted my friend again yesterday asking her how her week has been & if she's doing anything for Memorial Day since she didn't respond back from Monday. Though she said she was working every day this week, so I'm hoping I'll hear back tomorrow or Sunday. Again, I'm trying my best not to overthink the situation and trust her that she is indeed busy from working this week.

This time it was on the second date. Movie, lots of kissing and some touchy feely cuddling, no sleepover because of work. But since it was the only second date and there was no sleepover I think it's still a resonable pace and no need to overanalyze yet.

I would LOVE for that to happen on a second date. Hell, hoping to get lucky & have something like that happen if I can see my friend again. If I can figure out what we can watch, I'm hoping our third date can be swimming & a movie at a house (either my dad's gf's place where we'd be alone (hopefully), which is where the pool is, or one of our places).

Though it seems I tend to gravitate towards the girls where things progress more slowly. Not that I don't mind, since I'd want to make sure we take the time to build a good relationship/know we have a connection and I'd want her to feel comfortable/more open, plus I can be patient....but I want things to get physical eventually, ya know?

 

[ampere]

sounds like she's too busy to have an actual boyfriend

It did kind of feel that way when she talked about all the plans she made in general. Still feels bad man, never been dumped before, always been me doing it or mutual.

Came off too needy here.

Nah it'd been over 24 hours and I know she has her phone. It was getting to the point of disrespect where yes or no I deserved an answer to know if I should plan something else that day.

 

[davepoobond]

It did kind of feel that way when she talked about all the plans she made in general. Still feels bad man, never been dumped before, always been me doing it or mutual.



Nah it'd been over 24 hours and I know she has her phone. It was getting to the point of disrespect where yes or no I deserved an answer to know if I should plan something else that day.

just my opinion obviously, but having the "i would like you to text more" conversation shouldnt happen over text lol. also if it was an urgent matter of planning something for that day, shoulda just called?

but i dont think the end result was going to end up differently anyhow

 

[grap3fruitman]

Nah it'd been over 24 hours and I know she has her phone. It was getting to the point of disrespect where yes or no I deserved an answer to know if I should plan something else that day.

Exactly, you came off as needy. Her lack of response should have been enough indication of disinterest.

 

[MonorailCat]

I would LOVE for that to happen on a second date. Hell, hoping to get lucky & have something like that happen if I can see my friend again. If I can figure out what we can watch, I'm hoping our third date can be swimming & a movie at a house (either my dad's gf's place where we'd be alone (hopefully), which is where the pool is, or one of our places).

I don't want to sound like some pick up artist, but there is a lot of "hoping" in your text. Mixed with "being patient" it seems like you don't really lead or push your own boundaries.
I mean there is a difference in asking "uhm .. would you maybe like to come home to me to watch something? don't know what yet" or "I recently read about this awesome movie that just got added to netflix that I really want to see. Want to join me?"
Or getting physical. Sometimes you have to for the kiss even if you did not notice some clear signs (either you didn't notice or she is terrible at giving signs or she doesn't want to be kissed) Two good outcomes and one bad outcome .. and even that isn't too bad, because at least you made your intentions clear and got an answer.

 

[ampere]

just my opinion obviously, but having the "i would like you to text more" conversation shouldnt happen over text lol. also if it was an urgent matter of planning something for that day, shoulda just called?

but i dont think the end result was going to end up differently anyhow

Yeah maybe I should have called. I think she already had her mind made up though, yea. She kept looking at my okc profile and I guess was looking over my question answers and probably didn't like some of what she saw.

Exactly, you came off as needy. Her lack of response should have been enough indication of disinterest.

I see where you are coming from, but she did that a few days before and said her phone died when she went camping, then we had another great date. So I was giving the benefit of the doubt. But regardless I think she had her mind made up, I just wanted to fish out the answer.

 

[gaiages]

Exactly, you came off as needy. Her lack of response should have been enough indication of disinterest.

...Not really? Since she was actually responding (albeit slow) before, and caiossu believed that they were having multiple good dates, it's not really that needy to ask for more prompt responses, when she's able to.

Some people just aren't good with texting. He didn't know that. He didn't scare her away just because he asked.

 

[number47]

Always remembered the Pitt rule. Fuckers better respect your time.

 

[Zonic]

I don't want to sound like some pick up artist, but there is a lot of "hoping" in your text. Mixed with "being patient" it seems like you don't really lead or push your own boundaries.
I mean there is a difference in asking "uhm .. would you maybe like to come home to me to watch something? don't know what yet" or "I recently read about this awesome movie that just got added to netflix that I really want to see. Want to join me?"
Or getting physical. Sometimes you have to for the kiss even if you did not notice some clear signs (either you didn't notice or she is terrible at giving signs or she doesn't want to be kissed) Two good outcomes and one bad outcome .. and even that isn't too bad, because at least you made your intentions clear and got an answer.

Oh no, I didn't suggest the movie yet. I just said on Monday "Hey, my dad's gf's house has a pool, maybe when you're free this weekend or whenever, we can go swimming in it!", as she mentioned previously she enjoys swimming. I'm kind of tempted to just be like "Why don't you bring a movie over that we can watch together once we finish swimming? I'll bring over some snacks to eat!".

However, yes, you do make a valid point. I have trouble leading or pushing my own boundaries because I have trouble figuring out if it's time to push them. I kept telling myself next time we're together, I need to make a move because if I don't do anything next time, it's most likely too late & I waited too long to do something. I also feel like I truly want to make sure that I want to spend more time with this girl emotionally & not just "physically", hence why I tend to be fine with being patient.

But yeah, third date, I want it to end with more than just a hug & I'll do my best to work up the courage to take the lead.

 

[davepoobond]

Always remembered the Pitt rule. Fuckers better respect your time.

"Would she text you back if you were Brad Pitt?"

 

[MonorailCat]

I also feel like I truly want to make sure that I want to spend more time with this girl emotionally & not just "physically", hence why I tend to be fine with being patient.

emotions and physicality don't have to be separate .. all emotion and no physicality leads to friendship most of the time unless you are really attractive. It's the little physcial things that lead to a kiss and to sexual attraction. Like touching her hair when you say it looks really soft, taking her hand when you lead her to a location or if you think she likes some goofy stuff telling her you are a professional hand reader .. if she likes you she will give you her hand on her own. If she reacts positively to those small tokens of physical affection it's a clear sign that you can go for the kiss later on.
Then later on if you invite her home for a movie it's a pretty sure sign that she is probably comfortable with cuddling .. so just lay an arm over her shoulders. The sooner the better. The longer you wait, the more awkward it gets because both of you are obviously thinking about it in that situation.

Just general date advice .. I never regretted trying to kiss someone or showing some physicality. But I often regretted not even trying it.

 

[Zonic]

emotions and physicality don't have to be separate .. all emotion and no physicality leads to friendship most of the time unless you are really attractive. It's the little physcial things that lead to a kiss and to sexual attraction. Like touching her hair when you say it looks really soft, taking her hand when you lead her to a location or if you think she likes some goofy stuff telling her you are a professional hand reader .. if she likes you she will give you her hand on her own. If she reacts positively to those small tokens of physical affection it's a clear sign that you can go for the kiss later on.
Then later on if you invite her home for a movie it's a pretty sure sign that she is probably comfortable with cuddling .. so just lay an arm over her shoulders. The sooner the better. The longer you wait, the more awkward it gets because both of you are obviously thinking about it in that situation.

Just general date advice .. I never regretted trying to kiss someone or showing some physicality. But I often regretted not even trying it.

Appreciate the advice. Considering the last two times ended with hugs, I'm hopeful anything I try (I was actually planning on the arm on shoulder move if we saw a movie) will be met with success. It'll also help that our third date will actually be doing something aside from sitting & talking over drinks or dinner, therefore giving me more chances.

I just want to make sure I keep my brain in check as to which part of my body should be doing the thinking, i.e I want to show physical attraction to her, but still show I care emotionally as well. I guess me biggest fear is trying to reach second or third base too quickly & the situation is seriously uncomfortable or they think I only care for their body instead of their personality & such when in truth it's their personality that causes me to be more attracted.

 

[MonorailCat]

Appreciate the advice.

Take it with a grain of salt. My last date is now silent for 24+ hours

 

[ant_]

Take it with a grain of salt. My last date is now silent for 24+ hours

I completely agree with you. Small touches of physicality show that you are not looking to be just friends.

Hand on thigh, touching hair, holding hands, put hand on lower back when going through doors, etc. This makes it much more comfortable for both parties to move onto a physical relationship in addition to the emotional one.

 

[FO-totality]

Got a date off of OKC out of the blue after not using it for a while. And, well, it went really well for once...

...but got a text today saying she wants to focus on herself and just got out of a long relationship.

Damn it.

I really just want this to go right for me, just once in my life.

 

[Omega Kirby]

First date places ideas? Something fun but not overly expensive.

 

[GK86]

Park.
Coffee shop.
Bar.

 

[Astral]

Getting over this girl is really hard. This would be so much easier if I was at least talking to another girl. Now I regret not asking for this cute Chinese girl's number I saw the other day. Honestly, I wish I could just make my mind go blank at will. Being single is hard but meeting new people is also exhausting and hard for me.

 

[MonorailCat]

Yeah, that doesn't sound too bad, I wouldn't overthink it yet

I will start thinking very soon though. Nearly two days without reaction and she is online all the time. Zero response doesn't seem normal for someone who enjoyed a date.
will probably take a break from dating for now.

 

[Coda]

Getting over this girl is really hard. This would be so much easier if I was at least talking to another girl. Now I regret not asking for this cute Chinese girl's number I saw the other day. Honestly, I wish I could just make my mind go blank at will. Being single is hard but meeting new people is also exhausting and hard for me.

I hear you man. I'm kind of in a similar boat right now, it's been hard not to feel lonely and wanting company. The only thing I've learned from being in this spot before is to be as patient as you can be because it always seems to happen when you least expect it. Just focus on yourself the best you can and the right lady will come along.

 

[Jokab]

Welp, another girl that goes with the "I'm not ready for a serious relationship right now" right after I kiss her, since she broke up with her first bf of long just two months ago and she's still maybe not kinda over him or something. This was on the fifth date no less. She wants to keep seeing eachother though, so that's something I guess. We'll see what happens.

EDIT: Via text just now "I just want you to know I can't really do much more than meet as friends right now". Well fuck, I know what that means.

 

[Xun]

I somehow managed to get a girls number on the bus last night and I'll be meeting her next week for a drink.

She's Czech <3

I must say it's good to be making pretty decent progress with my confidence nowadays. Even a year ago I wouldn't of done something like that, but I'm thankfully a lot more outgoing now.

 

[Dobsie]

I've got a 1st date with a girl I matched with on tinder tonight, we've been chatting pretty much non stop for the past 3/4 days, both said we're really nervous about this as its new to us. Going for drinks at a pub.

 

[Jokab]

Welp, another girl that goes with the "I'm not ready for a serious relationship right now" right after I kiss her, since she broke up with her first bf of long just two months ago and she's still maybe not kinda over him or something. This was on the fifth date no less. She wants to keep seeing eachother though, so that's something I guess. We'll see what happens.

EDIT: Via text just now "I just want you to know I can't really do much more than meet as friends right now". Well fuck, I know what that means.

More texting. She says she can't rule out getting feelings for me, but right now it's not there. She wants to hang out as friends for now and see where it goes. We've been seeing eachother for about four weeks already, but as said she's getting over her bf.

What do I do here? I really like her, and hanging out with her is great. But at the same time, I can't wait around forever for her to figure herself and her feelings out.

 

[ClosingADoor]

More texting. She says she can't rule out getting feelings for me, but right now it's not there. She wants to hang out as friends for now and see where it goes. We've been seeing eachother for about four weeks already, but as said she's getting over her bf.

What do I do here? I really like her, and hanging out with her is great. But at the same time, I can't wait around forever for her to figure herself and her feelings out.

If you are OK with being friends, do that. But you have to put every expectation for a relationship aside. If you can't do that, be honest and just break contact until she figures out what she wants. Otherwise you'll be wasting your time on something that might never happen.

 

[Jokab]

If you are OK with being friends, do that. But you have to put every expectation for a relationship aside. If you can't do that, be honest and just break contact until she figures out what she wants. Otherwise you'll be wasting your time on something that might never happen.

Good advice. Maybe I'll try seeing her at least one more time and see how I feel about it.

In two weeks she's going home for the summer too. Not sure what will happen after that.

EDIT: I guess my philosophy here is that when a girl says that she isn't sure, disappearing completely will not do anything; she will just forget me. By persisting when she's in doubt, she might see that I really care for her, that I'm serious about it, and perhaps catch feelings partly due to that. Maybe this is a flawed philosophy though.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

That sounds like settling to me. You've had 5 dates and kissed her. That's putting all your cards on the table. If she doesn't or won't see that then it's not meant to be.

Plus she's going home for the summer so even if she said yes it's long distance for 3 months.

 

[davepoobond]

Be friends if you want but she is basically saying "not you, not now"

Don't put more effort into it anymore IMO. Pretty shitty that it took her 5 dates to come to that conclusion. Hope she was splitting the bills with you and you weren't footing the whole thing

 

[Jokab]

Be friends if you want but she is basically saying "not you, not now"

Don't put more effort into it anymore IMO. Pretty shitty that it took her 5 dates to come to that conclusion. Hope she was splitting the bills with you and you weren't footing the whole thing

I told her to plan our next meetup (not date anymore I guess), so no effort from me there. I'll see how it goes.

The guy paying for everything on dates is not a thing here in Sweden, so yeah we split.

 

[stn]

Maybe this is a flawed philosophy though.

With respect, I think you'd be making a mistake if you follow this. She has already ruled you out for whatever reason(s) she may have. You won't change her mind by casually hanging around and showing her you're always there. That's the role of a comforter. Don't do it.

Her saying "I can't rule out having feelings" is just to leave you with hope. She's just trying to reject you softly. Its all fluff, dude. You either like someone or you don't. You either have physical attraction for someone or you don't. What is she expecting, you to come swinging by on a magic carpet in order to swoop her off her feet?

If I told a girl that I may develop feelings for her I'd be BS'ing out my ass. Maybe that's just me. My advice is move on. Her rejection along with her going back home is the nail in the coffin. Time to meet other ladies, bro.

 

[Jokab]

With respect, I think you'd be making a mistake if you follow this. She has already ruled you out for whatever reason(s) she may have. You won't change her mind by casually hanging around and showing her you're always there. That's the role of a comforter. Don't do it.

Her saying "I can't rule out having feelings" is just to leave you with hope. She's just trying to reject you softly. Its all fluff, dude. You either like someone or you don't. You either have physical attraction for someone or you don't. What is she expecting, you to come swinging by on a magic carpet in order to swoop her off her feet?

If I told a girl that I may develop feelings for her I'd be BS'ing out my ass. Maybe that's just me. My advice is move on. Her rejection along with her going back home is the nail in the coffin. Time to meet other ladies, bro.

I considered this as a possibility, but yeah you're right of course. I guess I'll tell her that I can't be that guy when leaving from whatever she plans next. I want to say it to her face for whatever reason.

I know it's a small sample size, but this is almost the exact same series of events as with the last girl I dated for a longer time, which is well-documented in this thread. Went on three dates, she says she wants to take thing slow. I say okay, not making any moves. At the sixth date I do anyway, kissing her. She tells me she liked it, and we plan a lunch date for a few days later through text. At the end of that date, she says she has no feelings for me and wants to be friends.

Do I just have bad luck or am I perhaps doing something wrong? Obviously difficult to tell without more information. And I know that a grand total of two girls isn't a lot, but going on a bunch of dates and for both of them to result in the exact same thing is strange.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Welp, another girl that goes with the "I'm not ready for a serious relationship right now" right after I kiss her, since she broke up with her first bf of long just two months ago and she's still maybe not kinda over him or something. This was on the fifth date no less. She wants to keep seeing eachother though, so that's something I guess. We'll see what happens.

EDIT: Via text just now "I just want you to know I can't really do much more than meet as friends right now". Well fuck, I know what that means.

Had a variant of this happen to me this morning. I'd been seeing a girl for over a month, and we saw each other about 2-3 times per week. We've been intimate. We unmistakably like each other (as in, we say this to each other sincerely), and we still feel that way. My last post was about how to broach the idea of being exclusive, or at least identify what exactly we were doing. Last night, when we're in bed, she brings it up: she asks for exclusivity, and everything seems fine. She says she'll stop seeing someone else she's gone on a couple dates with casually. It was a great night. We go to sleep; this morning, we get breakfast, make some coffee, sit down, and talk.

She thinks we're moving too fast and getting too serious. She wants to enjoy being single: she'd just ended an 18-month relationship in March, and before that, she'd been in a multi-year relationship before that. So, the exclusivity's off, but she still wants to see me 2-3 times per week, and we'd planned on going out tomorrow with her best friend and the friend's husband.

I told her I needed time to process. I don't get it. Doing something like that is not casual. Going to happy hour after work is casual. I suppose this basically means she wants to keep me around and enjoy my company while having other options on the side ... which I was okay with a few weeks ago, but now I'm not so sure. I'm not really sure what to think at all.

I completely understand needing a cooling off period after a long relationship. I needed one after my divorce. But things are going really well. I guess I've just learned that "taking things slowly" means "getting sex elsewhere." Any ideas on how to interpret? What should I do?

 

[stn]

Do I just have bad luck or am I perhaps doing something wrong? Obviously difficult to tell without more information. And I know that a grand total of two girls isn't a lot, but going on a bunch of dates and for both of them to result in the exact same thing is strange.

Here's what I do in situations. I always apply a "logic test"; I ask myself if the situation makes sense. Let's say I'm you and the girl tells me, after three dates, that she wants to go slow. Does that make sense? No. Because three casual dates is nothing, its as slow as it gets. I could understand her saying "let's go slow" if you guys suddenly moved in together after three dates. But this? Its an obvious rejection.

Never assume you're doing something wrong. For all you know she just found a guy she's more attracted to. That wouldn't imply you did anything "wrong", know what I mean? Be fun, be polite, and escalate physical tension gradually. If you're doing that then there's really not much else you can do.

What should I do?

Your own analysis of the situation is correct, sir. What would I do? Stop seeing her. I may be the wrong person to give that advice because its notoriously easy for me to drop contact.

Unless she's a good friend that you know genuinely cares for your existence, just move on. Or stick around if she has friends, but make THAT your objective. Its perfectly fine to be friends with girls as long as you don't treat them any differently than your guy friends.

Case in point. I had a lady friend complain that I don't call her even though we chat through FB once a week and have the odd hangout. My response was that we were only friends and that this was how I communicated with most of my friends. Which is true, because only those in my CLOSEST circle get all of my attention. Its something she just has to deal with.

 

[GK86]

I would interpret it as; she wants to enjoy being single. She just got out of a relationship two months ago. Which is a short time. She probably doesn't want to deal with the ups and downs of a relationship. Being able to go out whenever, with whoever she wants.

There is a certain level of freedom that you get when you are single, and it is one of the best feelings when you come out of a relationship.

As for what to do, that is your call really. If you are not cool with dating her, while she is dating/seeking others as well, break it off.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I completely understand needing a cooling off period after a long relationship. I needed one after my divorce. But things are going really well. I guess I've just learned that "taking things slowly" means "getting sex elsewhere." Any ideas on how to interpret? What should I do?

If you are OK with keeping it casual, do that. Don't stop seeing other people yourself, otherwise she is holding you back from meeting a serious partner while you stick around as her backup option. She can't expect you to put your life on hold while she figures hers out, that's not fair to you.

Basically, say yes to the fun stuff, no to anything you don't want. And split the bill.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

As for what to do, that is your call really. If you are not cool with dating her, while she is dating/seeking others as well, break it off.

That's the weird thing. I was fine with it literally a few weeks ago. But there were signs of seriousness -- her telling her family about me, making weekend getaway plans, us discussing some deeply personal stuff, basically implicitly understanding that we'd spend weekends together -- that kind of pushed me beyond the realm of pure casualness.

If you are OK with keeping it casual, do that. Don't stop seeing other people yourself, otherwise she is holding you back from meeting a serious partner while you stick around as her backup option. She can't expect you to put your life on hold while she figures hers out, that's not fair to you. Basically, say yes to the fun stuff, no to anything you don't want. And split the bill.

I said all of this to her and, to her credit, she agreed. I just don't know how to effectively ratchet things back from where they were to some level of casualness. I called her on it this morning, about how she wanted an "escape hatch," and that's basically how we assessed it. But how do you continue to see each other twice a week and do "couples" things like go to wineries when, on a random Wednesday, she's hooking up with someone else?

I'm just trying to reconcile that. It'd be one thing if we were still firmly in the getting-to-know-you at happy hour phase.

 

[MonorailCat]

Went on three dates, she says she wants to take thing slow. I say okay, not making any moves. At the sixth date I do anyway, kissing her. She tells me she liked it, and we plan a lunch date for a few days later through text. At the end of that date, she says she has no feelings for me and wants to be friends.

Do I just have bad luck or am I perhaps doing something wrong? Obviously difficult to tell without more information. And I know that a grand total of two girls isn't a lot, but going on a bunch of dates and for both of them to result in the exact same thing is strange.

In my opinion you escalate the physical stuff way too slow. My rule of thumb: there should be a kiss by the second date. (two real dates). Some girls lose any attraction they have for a guy if they feel that he is too scared to escalate physically.
Thats probably what happened with the first girl. After three dates without real physical contact there was no attraction left .. but she liked you as a friend. So you got the "let's take it slow". And by the sixth date it was way too late .. already filed in the friendzone.

With apps like Tinder a LOT of girls date multiple guys at the same time. There is no time to "take it slow" .. by the time you schedule the sixth date for a kiss she probably already met some guys that kissed her on the first date.
Some light touching on the first date, kiss on the second and then a "home-date" on the third is a nice trade-off pace in getting to know each other and getting physical.

tl;dr: go for kiss and physical escalation earlier

 

[PflargBlarg]

That's the weird thing. I was fine with it literally a few weeks ago. But there were signs of seriousness -- her telling her family about me, making weekend getaway plans, us discussing some deeply personal stuff, basically implicitly understanding that we'd spend weekends together -- that kind of pushed me beyond the realm of pure casualness.



I said all of this to her and, to her credit, she agreed. I just don't know how to effectively ratchet things back from where they were to some level of casualness. I called her on it this morning, about how she wanted an "escape hatch," and that's basically how we assessed it. But how do you continue to see each other twice a week and do "couples" things like go to wineries when, on a random Wednesday, she's hooking up with someone else?

I'm just trying to reconcile that. It'd be one thing if we were still firmly in the getting-to-know-you at happy hour phase.

Seems no good to me. Twice a week and doing 'couples' stuff is not a casual relationship. My advice is she either decides she wants you, or you drop this wishy-washy dating stuff. I mean, unless that's what you want out of this relationship, but it doesn't sound like it.

 

[davepoobond]

That's the weird thing. I was fine with it literally a few weeks ago. But there were signs of seriousness -- her telling her family about me, making weekend getaway plans, us discussing some deeply personal stuff, basically implicitly understanding that we'd spend weekends together -- that kind of pushed me beyond the realm of pure casualness.

draw it back and dont spend that much time with her anymore imo. she wants casual, she should only get casual. not the benefits of a relationship while stringing you along and doing other guys

she's doing you a disservice by telling you what she did

 

[Dobsie]

So had my first date (ever) tonight, went really well, no awkward silences, we were both a bit nervous at first but the conversation flowed really well. Got a dinner date planned for Monday