I will have a spare sandy bridge processor when I do my skylake build...
Steam Controller trailer, $50
- Thread starter Formless
- Start date
I will have a spare sandy bridge processor when I do my skylake build...
Nabs
Member
Is it? I seem to remember tons of updates pertaining to HW encoding during the IHS beta...
Sir Abacus
Member
By default it's software. The hardware encoding is present but would certainly introduce more latency (we're talking multiple frames) into the process as well.
When using steam in house streaming right now should I be using software or hardware decoding/encoding?
I never understand these options. It's going from big pc to laptop
The only problem with some CRPG's and complex strategy titles like Civ V is the UI. Devs usually like to take full advanatge of the screen real-estate on PC, and that usually means small fonts, lots of information on screen. Some will have ui scaling, but some won't or can't given the scope fo the informaiton required to be shown to the player.
Why? I would imagine hardware encoding (like on Nvidia GPU's) would be much faster than CPU encoding.
You shoud always opt for hardware encoding. It's going to be faster than CPU encoding.
Sir Abacus
Member
It is faster. But it's not. It's faster in throughput. We're looking for latency.
OK so when you're encoding you have three types of frames, I-frames, P-frames, and B-frames. I-frames are complete representations of an image. It's like a JPG of a scene. A P-frame is a one way frame. It tells you motion going forward. B-frames are bidirectional. They tell you motion of pixels going forward and backward.
You're streaming. So immediately, B-frames are useless. Throw them out. But now you have this case where you have to figure out motion which normally takes a few frames. x264 has a special mode where it will look ahead only using the next frame. Keep in mind it's pulling from the frame buffer so any VBLANK timings are kind of irrelevant at this point so the latency can get pretty low on a decent setup.
Now normally decoding can only happen once a completed frame has been received. But we're looking for low latency. So software encoding does slicing where the frame is split into a number of self-contained slices which can be individually decoded so as soon as a slice is received it can be decoded. This reduces the latency again because you have a pipeline of decoding going on instead of waiting for a full frame and hurrying to decode it.
The last step is making sure bit-rate and encoding latency is consistent. I-frames are basically a full image smack in the middle of all this prediction. They screw with your bitrate, they take the longest to encode. So what x264 did was implement periodic intra refresh. The i-frame is inserted progressively in a column on each frame. The i-frame is being constantly updated throughout the stream one column at a time instead of once every 25 (or so) frames! So you get almost this perfectly smooth bitrate! The result of which is you can operate a stream with a minimal amount of buffering which again reduces latency.
And none of these tricks are supported in any hardware encoder implementation. So you get the old school multiple frame lookup more latency blah blah blah.
Finally having an ARM client could be good news for the various Android streaming boxes that are commonly available in homes.
The Fire TV, for example, would be a perfect In Home Streaming client.
Are you sure about this? Since NV use their own hardware encoder for Shield streaming I would assume that it has a latency-optimized mode (or is latency-optimized in general).
Super excited for both the controller and the functionality of the Link. The only reason I'm holding off on a pre order is because Valve tends to be very iterative, so it might be worth it, especially for the Link, to wait for it's second generation.
Question for those who know. If I have a decent gaming computer and I'm the only one in the household playing games, why would I want a steam machine instead of the Link. For the functionality of having my computer games on my TV the Link is all i need.
I understand how in larger households with multiple gamers, or possibly users of the computer a Steambox might be preferable. However other than that use case what benefits does the Steambox give me over the link?
Question for those who know. If I have a decent gaming computer and I'm the only one in the household playing games, why would I want a steam machine instead of the Link. For the functionality of having my computer games on my TV the Link is all i need.
I understand how in larger households with multiple gamers, or possibly users of the computer a Steambox might be preferable. However other than that use case what benefits does the Steambox give me over the link?
Sir Abacus
Member
OK Kepler and above support single frame lookahead mode but don't expose any sliced based encoding or periodic intra refresh right now. It's probably enough for local situations to 720p.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
A Steambox is a substitute for a gaming PC, not the Steam link (though any of the the devices in question can handle in-home-streaming).
If you already have a gaming computer then just get a Steam link.
Thanks!
Having just read through the entire thread, I'm becoming really giddy:
- Touchpad working a la trackball, myself being a huge trackball user
- A community driven huge database of controller scheme working for ANY GAME EVER ON STEAM, basically combining Xpadder with Steam and a community. That's insane!
Is there any way to see if the 16 October batch is still available? I might just bite. There are no alternatives to purchasing on Steam for the Netherlands afaik.
- Touchpad working a la trackball, myself being a huge trackball user
- A community driven huge database of controller scheme working for ANY GAME EVER ON STEAM, basically combining Xpadder with Steam and a community. That's insane!
Is there any way to see if the 16 October batch is still available? I might just bite. There are no alternatives to purchasing on Steam for the Netherlands afaik.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
What?
He wants someone to get their in-home streaming client working on, say, android.
viveks86
Member
Hey Krejlooc, I'd asked about xinput and no one seems to have responded. When I choose a "gamepad" template, does the controller actually send xinput commands to the game? Or would they still be kb/m commands that are calibrated to simulate a gamepad? It's a big gap in my understanding of what the controller can or can't do, so would appreciate your thoughts on it. Thanks!
RealityCheque
Banned
Zeyphersan
Banned
Huh, thanks for this. I always just assume hardware encoding is better/faster than software
viveks86
Member
Yeah I got that. I'm trying to understand the underlying protocol. Such as xinput/dinput. Reason behind it is to know if it will be compatible out of the box with tools like pinnacle/xpadder. I'm currently using xinput commands as shift modes and even simulate debug console commands. So when it is behaving as an analog stick, is it actually sending an xinput analog stick command or is it sending computed mouse coordinates? Will pinnacle even detect the game pad so that profiles become active?
What are the default controls outside of Steam? Say if I want to access the Bios, are all of the buttons I need available? Or can you flash the firmware on the controller to whatever kbm config and use that setup outside of steam?
Valve has made the best local streaming application I have ever seen, I wish they made it open source.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I wonder if Valve is every going to allow streaming over internet. Right now for some portable PC gaming goodness I have to rely on the Shield/Nvidia's streaming
Where do you see this? Doesn't seem to be in my email confirmation.
edit: nevermind found it in my account settings
It wasn't in the email, it was right after the order was placed in Steam. There will be a lot of angry people if these pre orders don't ship out Oct 16. Since Valve is still advertising this date on their website I would say they are planning to ship out these pre orders on the Oct 16 date.
Check your account.
Kamakazie!
Member
I was hoping for a FireTV app or alternatively for the Link to support other apps as of like only one box.
I'll be cancelling my pre order of they do announce an app for other devices though!
Well I still have hope for a mobile ARM version of in-home streaming since there is this
and there is also this regarding Steam Link
HenryG Valve said:
It should be possible.
More interested in the Link than the controller at this point. I'd probably stick to games designed around the X360 controller, which I already have. I'll just use that. I'm definitely curious to see reactions and user reviews from it, though. On an application where speed and bandwidth is key, I'm pretty surprised to see only a 100Mb/s NIC in the thing... the rest of my network is Gigabit.
The only reason I haven't used IHS until now is simply because I don't have a second computer to put downstairs. I've been waiting for something small and reasonably-priced that will do the job. $50 is hard to sneer at under the circumstances, although I do wonder if it's enough for what I plan to throw at it.
How does the IHS system actually work, down deep? Depending on which buffer it's grabbing, I'm hoping there's a chance I can actually get it to export a signal compatible with my passive 3D TV. All processing is done on the GPU, my monitor and TV use exactly the same 3D tech, the only difference is the physical size.
The only reason I haven't used IHS until now is simply because I don't have a second computer to put downstairs. I've been waiting for something small and reasonably-priced that will do the job. $50 is hard to sneer at under the circumstances, although I do wonder if it's enough for what I plan to throw at it.
How does the IHS system actually work, down deep? Depending on which buffer it's grabbing, I'm hoping there's a chance I can actually get it to export a signal compatible with my passive 3D TV. All processing is done on the GPU, my monitor and TV use exactly the same 3D tech, the only difference is the physical size.
This! It looks cute but I've already got a full set of 360 and GameCube controllers I can easily use. For me, it'd have to be pretty damn neat to justify picking it up (it is pretty neat though)
I actually love dual analogue but I absolutely see room for different setups
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
I've used the In Home Streaming a bit going from my main gaming PC to my laptop hooked up to my main TV and it works ok but not that great. That's mostly due to my network I imagine.
Is there any reason I should expect using the Steam Link to give any better streaming performance than what I'd get right now using my laptop connected to my TV? Is there anything special about the Link that makes the streaming better than what you can do now, other than its a nice little box with a small form factor?
Is there any reason I should expect using the Steam Link to give any better streaming performance than what I'd get right now using my laptop connected to my TV? Is there anything special about the Link that makes the streaming better than what you can do now, other than its a nice little box with a small form factor?
Crayon
Member
I don't think it should offer any advantage. I think it's strictly for those who don't have an existing satisfactory device to run the ihs software.
ashecitism
Member
That is different. Hope they are good at using it haha
alexandros
Banned
Cool! What is the Glitch Mob though?
ashecitism
Member
An electro band lol
alexandros
Banned
What? How random, lol!