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[Hip Hop]

"Steam refunds—previously offered rarely and on a case-by-case basis—can now be requested under almost any circumstance provided players have 1) spent two hours or less with the game and 2) owned the game for two weeks or less. The feature’s been in the wild for nearly a week, and developers have started reporting stats, with some claiming that their refund rate has skyrocketed to anywhere between 30 and 70 percent."

More at the link:
http://steamed.kotaku.com/a-lot-of-...m_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

"The developers of Revenge of the Titans—a well-like strategy tower defense game that’s been out since 2011—saw an unexpectedly large uptick in refunds. “55% refund rate on RoTT alone. Versus five refunds in 10 years direct,” they tweeted.

Meanwhile, Qwiboo, developer of a procedurally generated space platformer called Beyond Gravity, chimed in with an even higher stat. “Out of 18 sales 13 refunded in just last 3 days. That’s 72% of purchases. Rate of refunds before was minimal,” they tweeted."

How do you guys feel about this? I see Valve making changes as this program goes along seeing as how many people are taking advantage of it. It's a nice step in to the right direction no doubt, but in need of modification I suppose.

Refund me and lock if old.

 

[Mononoke]

Nvm, I guess I asked a silly question given what is available data wise. As someone from NA, it's also just weird the idea of not having to eat buyers remorse on digital goods.

Reading this...

If people don't like a product they should be able to get their money back.

...made me realize that. Because that makes sense.

Also if watching Jim Sterlings videos have told me anything, Steam is full of broken games and people trying to make a cash grab in very questionable ways. So these kind of protections are definitely needed. Still, can't help but initially worry for some Devs.

 

[Quadraphonic]

These are people that thought they wanted the game, found out it was not what they liked, so they want their money back.

If they get banned for abuse, we'll see. But right now it can't be considered lost revenue because those are only purchases from people that weren't likely buy it if refunds didn't exist.

Edit:

There is the off chance, reading the article, that this is part of a piracy ring. They download the latest version of the game, many of them lacking DRM, copy the directory, get a refund and continue playing off the grid. But how long can that last?

 

[kurahador]

I see some ppl get refunded for a purchase they made in 2014.
I think Valve will tighten up the rule later.

 

[Codeblue]

I want to know who is out there buying games and playing them within two weeks instead of immediately losing it in a giant backlog.

 

[Kinthalis]

"refund rate has skyrocketed to anywhere between 30 and 70 percent"

Well, duh, before you almost couldn't get a refund! Now you can.

This is the market bouncing back, to the place it should have always been. I think in the long run this is going to be a good thing for MOST devs out there. Having a comprehensive refund policy, gives customers confidence in making purchases from Steam. People will be more willing to give games a shot if they know that if they don't like the game or it doesn't run well on their systems, that they can get their money back.

This is the number one complaint from my more casual friends who I got into PC gaming. They love the low prices, but they often times refuse to try new things, and they hate it when a game doesn't run well on their systems and their stuck.

 

[Ullus]

I think many people are just trying it to see if it works.

 

[CambriaRising]

If people don't like a product they should be able to get their money back.

 

[aspiegamer]

I really really want to hope that gamers aren't such entitled brats that a significant number of people would abuse the system list this. I really do. I'm not sure if I do. The sale starting later this week will be telling.

 

[injurai]

I think many people are just trying it to see if it works.

I'd imagine this is likely the case.

 

[Bulzeeb]

I see some ppl get refunded for a purchase they made in 2014.
I think Valve will tighten up the rule later.

aren't the refunds only given to games people have had for two weeks or less?

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

There will always be people who try and game the system. If they don't want to keep your game, then they don't want to keep it. It's as simple as that. Does your game not hold someone's interest past the 120 minute mark? That's a failure on the dev's part. I think this will make for better games in the long run.

 

[kewlmyc]

Well duh, now that people can they will.

Stores constantly have people buying Bluray players/movies/games/tvs and returning them the next day. Said stores are still in business too. Steam will adapt.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

More people are claiming refunds than when you weren't allowed to?

No fucking shit Kotaku.


Mr Grayson should go watch this weeks Jimquistion.

 

[CambriaRising]

I really really want to hope that gamers aren't such entitled brats that a significant number of people would abuse the system list this. I really do. I'm not sure if I do. The sale starting later this week will be telling.

Getting a refund on something you aren't pleased with makes you an entitled brat now. K.

 

[The Llama]

"refund rate has skyrocketed to anywhere between 30 and 70 percent"

Well, duh, before you almost couldn't get a refund! Now you can.

This is the market bouncing back, to the place it should have always been.

70% of people getting refunds is where the market should have always been? Somehow, I don't think that's accurate at all.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

aren't the refunds only given to games people have had for two weeks or less?

The actual outer limit is 6 months.

I've refunded stuff as far back as 3 months.

 

[Exuro]

aren't the refunds only given to games people have had for two weeks or less?

Refunds will 100% be given for those cases, but you can still request a refund even if your case doesn't fall under those.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I don't see the problem. All of those people who are buying these games and returning them either wouldn't have bought the games before, or if they did they would have wished they could because they don't like the games.

 

[LurkerPrime]

'Kay, y'know what, saying "rate of returns was minimal" when Steam didn't officially do returns previously is incredibly fucking dishonest.

Qwiboo and Puppygames are grasping at straws. And shame on Kotaku for even making this article.

 

[Tenebrous]

I don't see the problem. All of those people who are buying these games and returning them either wouldn't have bought the games before, or if they did they would have wished they could because they don't like the games.

Spot on. Nothing more to say, really.

 

[uncredited male]

refund rate

FFS Kotaku.

EDIT - GAF, math please.

EDIT EDIT - I guess the wording is too ambiguous to say for certain at this point. GAF redeemed.

 

[Kinthalis]

70% of people getting refunds is where the market should have always been? Somehow, I don't think that's accurate at all.

The quote is: Refunds have skyrocketed 30 to 70%.

That is, the previous rate of refunds has increased by a factor of 1.3 to 1.7. NOT that 70% of sales are refunded. Given that previously it was nealrty impossibel to get a refund, yes, this isn't out of line with the reality that some people will purchase your game and not like it/it won't run..

 

[The Cowboy]

No modification is needed at all, as said in the other thread on this - these devs are compairing a time when Steam would hardly ever give a refund vs a time in which Steam will now give a refund if you played the game for under 2 hours. You can't just look at the stats and say "Out of 18 sales 13 refunded in just last 3 days. That’s 72% of purchases. Rate of refunds before was minimal", because there is a reason refunds were minimal before - you could hardly ever get one.

These devs have no idea at all if people wanted refunds before but simply couldn't get one, this is because the consumer had no refund protection at all (but now they do).

 

[texhnolyze]

I kinda feel bad for the indie devs, but I think it's still a good thing.
I hope this refund policy will push the indie devs to make better games so people won't refund them.

 

[SeanTSC]

Refunds almost impossible before, but are readily obtainable now. Refund Numbers go up, Developers Shocked.

It's barely been out what, a week or two now? Of course the numbers spiked way up. You need months and months of data before reaching any reasonable long term conclusions.

 

[PartTimeWarrior]

If people don't like a product they should be able to get their money back.

Yup

 

[NeededSleep]

Don't mind it, maybe developers will think twice about putting shovelware out so quickly and in the unfinished state on steam.

Unfortunatly I can see how this can hurt some developers, expecially with older titles. Still I'm all for the refund policy.

 

[Marjar]

How dare people want consumer rights. The nerve.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

No modification is needed at all, as said in the other thread on this - these devs are compairing a time when Steam would never give a refund vs a time in which Steam will now give a refund if you played the game for under 2 hours.

You can't just look at the stats and say "Out of 18 sales 13 refunded in just last 3 days. That’s 72% of purchases. Rate of refunds before was minimal", there is a reason refunds were minimal before - you couldn't get one.

It's also odd to compare refunds against just the sales in the past few days when refunds can pretty much come out of a pool that includes anyone who has bought the game since 2015 started.

 

[kurahador]

I kinda feel bad for the indie devs, but I think it's still a good thing.
I hope this refund policy will push the indie devs to make better games so people won't refund them.

Yeah...I think the rules of needing less than 2 hours of playtime shouldn't apply to Early Access games.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Seriously bad for developers who:

- Are making cheap games that last less than two hours
- Are making niche games of any kind at all
- Are making narrative games
- Are making games where art isn't the focus

Seriously good for game buyers who:

- Are used to getting everything cheap or free forever

 

[old manatee]

Damn I'll bet they're using other features, too.

 

[CambriaRising]

Yeah...I think the rules of needing less than 2 hours of playtime shouldn't apply to Early Access games.

I think they should apply ESPECIALLY to early access games.

 

[CountAntonius]

2 hours and two weeks seems reasonable for all but short games. We don't have a way to try most of these games and there is no resale value for them so I think it's a great feature that should stay but be tweaked to protect certain type of games.

 

[hamchan]

Good. I don't think it needs much modification. The system should be benefiting consumers. Rate of returns being minimal before just shows how fucked up it used to be.

 

[dukeoflegs]

"refund rate has skyrocketed to anywhere between 30 and 70 percent"

That's a big uptick, I wonder if it is just people testing the waters?


What will be interesting is when the Steam summer sale starts, what kind of numbers will they hit then?

 

[AHA-Lambda]

If people don't like a product they should be able to get their money back.

Exactly, this isn't a debate. And yet we're the ones who are always called entitled; refunds are one of the most basic consumer rights.

 

[Nick_C]

No modification is needed at all, as said in the other thread on this - these devs are compairing a time when Steam would never give a refund vs a time in which Steam will now give a refund if you played the game for under 2 hours.

You can't just look at the stats and say "Out of 18 sales 13 refunded in just last 3 days. That’s 72% of purchases. Rate of refunds before was minimal", there is a reason refunds were minimal before - you couldn't get one.

They should also release stats for total weekly sales in the weeks leading up to when Valve made refunds possible. I'd be interested in seeing if those numbers went up too.

 

[Blizzard]

Has anyone yet mentioned (or maybe they are NDA'd) whether Valve is footing the bill for months old refunds? Otherwise that would be pretty crazy to coordinate for every developer on the store to potentially start owing money back to Valve.

 

[Jobias]

The quote is: Refunds have skyrocketed 30 to 70%.

That is, the previous rate of refunds has increased by a factor of 1.3 to 1.7. NOT that 70% of sales are refunded. Given that previously it was nealrty impossibel to get a refund, yes, this isn't out of line with the reality that some people will purchase your game and not like it/it won't run..

Actually, I think that is exactly what it is saying:

"The feature’s been in the wild for nearly a week, and developers have started reporting stats, with some claiming that their refund rate has skyrocketed to anywhere between 30 and 70 percent."

Skyrocketed to, not skyrocketed by. The article says RoTT is seeing a 55% refund rate, not an increase by 55%.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Refunds almost impossible before, but are readily obtainable now. Refund Numbers go up, Developers Shocked.

It's barely been out what, a week or two now? Of course the numbers spiked way up. You need months and months of data before reaching any reasonable long term conclusions.

.

Refund numbers for the past 10 days when compared to a time where refunds werent readily available are going to make for...fun percentages.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Seriously bad for developers who:

- Are making cheap games that last less than two hours
- Are making niche games of any kind at all
- Are making narrative games
- Are making games where art isn't the focus

Seriously good for game buyers who:

- Are used to getting everything cheap or free forever

Is it bad for those developers because now they can't rely on tricking people into buying the game even if they don't like it? I don't know what you're saying. How is this had for niche games?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

If people don't like a product they should be able to get their money back.

Yup. Exactly.

But what really worries me is abuse.

Seriously bad for developers who:

- Are making cheap games that last less than two hours
- Are making niche games of any kind at all
- Are making narrative games
- Are making games where art isn't the focus

This, as well.

Which is the category my team falls into at this point.

 

[aspiegamer]

Getting a refund on something you aren't pleased with makes you an entitled brat now. K.

I didn't say that refunds were bad. I said abusing the system was bad. Things like "oh, damn, I didn't really mean to click 'buy'!" or "well, I'll never get around to playing this". People shouldn't be using this to cover up their crappy purchasing habits. That's all I mean. This is quite an experiment going on.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Good. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting money back from a regretful purchase. Seeing refunds being applied to DD is wonderful.

 

[Caronte]

They'll lose that privilege soon enough then.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I never thought this was a good idea.

You should not be entitled to a refund because of your subjective reaction to a piece of entertainment. If the product doesn't work, or perform as advertised, or is faulty in some way, it is consumer rights to be compensated for being misled.

It is not consumer rights to demand a refund for a piece of entertainment you didn't enjoy. "No refund for content" is a thing for a reason. When you pay for entertainment you are not paying to see if you like it or not.

The "no questions asked" policy is the problem.

 

[The Cowboy]

This part i agree with.

This is part of the problem. There’s no way of knowing WHY users have claimed a refund. There’s no communication with me as a developer. I have so many questions… Could it be that they were having technical issues? Is it something that could have been solved by talking to me? Did they ACTUALLY mistakenly buy 7 copies of the same game, is that even possible?

They really should make it so devs gets a reason for the refunds.

 

[Maintenance]

Good, people should be able to get refunds. Last time I tried with Valve before this happened was terrible, took too much time.