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[RoboPlato]

I don't think anything in what she wrote made her sound "upset." It's all pretty reasonable, straightforward and easy to understand even if you don't agree with it.

I think some people are too defensive and take Anita's opinions, which is really pretty basic and not inflammatory, way too seriously.

I think it's just her general phrasing and the fact that most people only really hear what she has to say through Twitter which makes it seem like she's saying that things aren't good enough.

I also think that her anti-violence rant recently turned a lot of people off to her criticism and really hurt her true goals and commentary being accepted.

 

[Henkka]

That 46% number is huge and a great step forward.



I don't agree with this, though, at all. At the end of the day it should be about giving players choices. I don't see how forcing female-only player characters is any better than forcing male-only player characters, it's just going from one extreme to the other. They both remove choice from the player. Ideally, that 46% number should be at 100%.

That's silly. Sometimes devs want to create a game where the gender of the main character is relevant to the story. The Last of Us, for example, deals heavily with the theme of fatherhood.

 

[Mesoian]

Because ecco the dolphin is a narrative driven tale about the complexities of dolphin society.

Eh. There is more narrative in Ecco than people give it credit for.

 

[neogaffer1]

It's the lack of information revolving around that entire thing that really put me off. Who's to say that Emily and Corvo don't have separate campaigns similar to RE? We know NOTHING about that game other than there are two playable characters. Condemning a game because of a trailer and a byline is nothing short of kneejerk.

Lots of stuff have come out of interviews after the reveal.

Spoiler

You start out as Emily, something happens, and then you're given the choice to chose between Corvo and Emily. Both characters are voiced unlike the first game where Corvo was completely silent the entire game. Each character has their own abilities--Emily has that grapple thing but no Blink and Corvo has the opposite, and that carries over to the other abilities as well. Corvo and (character name redacted) have more mana and health because they directly have the mark, whereas Emily is implied to just be sharing Corvo's mark just like Daude's minions did in the first game, and so she has less mana and health. There's just one campaign, but each mission is different for each character.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

But not exclusively female. Cause the best way to prove feminism is about equality is by saying having the ability to choose between both genders is bad.

That's a very weird way to twist what was in the OP. I fail to see where it's said that gender choice is bad.

 

[Lemondish]

I agree that this is something that should be addressed.

I'm just not convinced forcing males to do the same thing that we've forced females to do for so long is the best way to address it. I think the natural shift towards games that let you choose is far more likely to adjust the thinking on this than encouraging more games be made with female characters with the express purpose of forcing men to accept women heroes. This tactic assumes that this behaviour MUST be trained into males because otherwise we can't do it. I think that's a silly assumption. My favourite female videogame hero was Shephard, who I never once imagined could be anything other than a woman. And that was in a game that encouraged you to choose. Now, I'm not saying I'm against female protagonists, just that I don't see it as being the best way to go about shifting this mindset. I'm not worried about 'quotas' or games made with female leads as a 'bullet point', like the discussion elsewhere seems to be insinuating.

Is it always necessary for the player character to be female if the resulting expression of female heroism is at play anyway? We saw the game of the generation introduce a perfectly capable female heroine in Ellie while the game was mostly played from Joel's perspective.

 

[Kriken]

46% of games shown allows the player to make a choice in their gender. That's actually pretty good, and over 50% allow for female to be chosen really shows the industry has made some good steps forward.

If there's one thing about her coverage of e3 that I hated, it was her complaint about Dishonored 2 allowing for choice in protagonist. Why are options a bad thing there? It's better than Corvo only

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Because ecco the dolphin is a narrative driven tale about the complexities of dolphin society.

Is "narrative driven" the criteria at hand? Because if so, her list would need some serious revising.

 

[Superflat]

I like how the biggest piece of the pie, where you can play as either male or female, is made grey as if it's not relevant information. Choice is winning out by a large margin.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Lol @ Yoshi being labeled as a male. Where those egg's coming out of? Didn't Nintendo basically say Yoshi's are asexual and neither male or female?

To my knowledge they still refer to him by male pronouns.

 

[Zaptruder]

Feminist Frequency presents: A masterclass in distorting information to fit a prepared narrative.

It's not that having male exclusive vs female exclusive is an invalid perspective - but it should be analyzed in the greater context - a recognition that yes, the industry is improving and moving towards a better representation of both genders in games.

 

[Nightbird]

Including Yoshi? Seriously? Wich Gender related Issues should a Yoshi deal with?

But that more than the half of all Games allowing you to be female is a big thing. Maybe the time is right to start choosing female Characters for a while with more and more Games allowing to do so.

 

[Beefy]

Yoshi is male.

Super Smash Bros. Melee states in Yoshi's trophy that Yoshi reproduce asexually, meaning that they reproduce without a mate, and are neither male nor female.

Is this wrong then?

 

[nomorenick]

I hope this isn't saying "Females should be playable in nearly 50% of available games."

If people want games with female "heroes" then they'll sell. If it doesn't sell, then it doesn't deserve more % of the pie.

Perfect

 

[DarkConfidant]

This is really cool to see.

Inevitably some people will be upset solely because it was pointed out, but I'm glad that FemFreq does this.

 

[Gbraga]

While the difference between male only and female only is far bigger than I expected (though the percentage of male only is far less than I expected), I'm very excited that I'd be able to play as a woman in more than half of the E3 games.

This is really cool to see.

Inevitably some people will be upset solely because it was pointed out, but I'm glad that FemFreq does this.

Yeah, I don't get that either. I'm not really a FemFreq fan or anything, I'm largely indifferent to their content, but these are some nice stats that I was curious to see someone doing, doesn't matter if you like the source or not, the info is nice.

 

[Nirolak]

One might almost think that there's been a joint and conscious effort among games industry professionals to actively push for more inclusive games casts. Potentially due to some kind of external stimuli...

Right, I think when we boil down this whole topic, the actual work Anita puts out is vastly less relevant than just getting the conversation started and letting the reaction show that the audience is actually notably interested in this topic.

It simultaneously gets developers to think about the topic and gives the developers who were already thinking about it ammo to actually act.

Like in 2010 we had Activision telling Treyarch:

"Activision gave us specific direction to lose the chick," says the other source plainly.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/120558/InDepth_No_Female_Heroes_At_Activision.php

In 2015, you can select your gender for the main character of Call of Duty and they get full voice acting and cutscenes and everything. The classes in multiplayer even have pre-set genders (or non-genders for things like robots) as well as they're actual characters.

 

[Mesoian]

That's silly. Sometimes devs want to create a game where the gender of the main character is relevant to the story. The Last of Us, for example, deals heavily with the theme of fatherhood.

And if you're telling a story that deals directly with gendered roles or identifiers like TLOU did, then great. You're using gender in a real and meaningful way in your narrative.

If your story is just shooting alien bugs and nothing else like 90% of games, give people the choice. When everyone is in power armor, there's no point in restricting who can or can't shoot the bugs because of their naughtybits.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

That's a very weird way to twist what was in the OP. I fail to see where it's said that gender choice is bad.

She said that the only way you can identify with females and their struggles is by having an exclusive female lead story. Traditionally games that have gender choices gender is irrelevant to the story.

She would rather have exclusively female lead games than being able to choose between the two.

 

[Zombie James]

That's silly. Sometimes devs want to create a game where the gender of the main character is relevant to the story. The Last of Us, for example, deals heavily with the theme of fatherhood.

Of course, which is why I said ideally. It can difficult offering that choice in a heavily story driven game.

 

[Xander Crews]

Who is making someone lose money here? Or making anyone do anything?

He means, if it making more games with female protagonists was more profitable, publishers would do it.

 

[benicillin]

I think that having more exclusively female-led games would be a good thing. Ideally there would be just as many female lead character exclusive games as there are male lead character exclusive games, because you can tell different stories that way. I think that's all Anita is saying, and I see a lot of people in this thread already being overinflammatory about it. No one is trying to take away your male-led games, but having more female-exclusive games would be great.

 

[DoktorEvil]

46% of games with the option for both genders is a solid number to hold onto.

Character creation is the new big thing nowadays.

But this irked me:

In compiling data on whether or not a game’s mechanics incorporate violence or combat, we aren’t making a value judgment, or saying that the cartoonish sword-swinging of The Legend of Zelda is no different from the gratuitous chainsaw kills in DOOM. The numbers by themselves can’t paint a complete picture. Rather, these numbers are presented here only to demonstrate how prevalent violence as a mechanic is in all sorts of games, because it is worth considering how, in relying so heavily on violence as a core component of game design, developers and publishers are not exploring opportunities to tell other kinds of stories and create other kinds of games.

That is far from true and she should not present that as a fact.

 

[HK-47]

That 46% number is huge and a great step forward.



I don't agree with this, though, at all. At the end of the day it should be about giving players choices. I don't see how forcing female-only player characters is any better than forcing male-only player characters, it's just going from one extreme to the other. They both remove choice from the player. Ideally, that 46% number should be at 100%.

Choice isnt always a good thing.

 

[xzeldax3]

I treat story heavy games with one protagonist as a movie. I'm not trying to project myself on him or her, I'm just experiencing the world and actions of this character whom I have a slight influence over.

I'm loving how almost half of the games give choice the character's sex though. I feel like if that's not a story breaking aspect, then it should be implemented. It's cool to have a little customization!

 

[Loakum]

I don't think anything in what she wrote made her sound "upset." It's all pretty reasonable, straightforward and easy to understand even if you don't agree with it.

I think some people are too defensive and take Anita's opinions, which is really pretty basic and not inflammatory, way too seriously.

thank you for telling me what you think.

 

[God Dayumm]

Seriously? -_- They really should exclude non-humanoids.

There is a point to be made about the lack of non-humanoid female characters. Even sonic female friends are more anthropomorphized that the males by wearing dresses and stuff. Look at smash bros, most females are princesses or sexy women, only exception being the girl villager, armored samus and... jigglypuff?

This may be a problem regarding the inclusion of female characters on one hand, but to me, the more important issue is that this reflects on the lack of genre diversity in AAA games

 

[depths20XX]

To my knowledge they still refer to him by male pronouns.

True. I just don't think worrying about his sex really matters. It's the same thing with Kirby. I don't care if he has a dick or not and I'm not relating to him.

 

[Caronte]

That's a very weird way to twist what was in the OP. I fail to see where it's said that gender choice is bad.

Read the Dishonored 2 posts.

 

[Gestault]

Right, I think when we boil down this whole topic, the actual work Anita puts out is vastly less relevant than just getting the conversation started and letting the reaction show that the audience is actually notably interested in this topic.

Even if people are critical of the tone the article sometimes hits, the fact that the data was compiled by FemFreq and not by anyone else (who I've seen, at least) says they're doing good work for the sake of these conversations.

 

[NintenDOMG]

I find the stats and graphics very interesting but I can't agree with the sipn she puts on it.

 

[Leafhopper]

That's a very weird way to twist what was in the OP. I fail to see where it's said that gender choice is bad.

She wants more games where you exclusively play as a female. She has stated that. In this thread Dishonored 2 is the common one.

 

[Mesoian]

Lots of stuff have come out of interviews after the reveal.

Spoiler

You start out as Emily, something happens, and then you're given the choice to chose between Corvo and Emily. Both characters are voiced unlike the first game where Corvo was completely silent the entire game. Each character has their own abilities--Emily has that grapple thing but no Blink and Corvo has the opposite, and that carries over to the other abilities as well. Corvo and (character name redacted) have more mana and health because they directly have the mark, whereas Emily is implied to just be sharing Corvo's mark just like Daude's minions did in the first game, and so she has less mana and health.

Which, from both a gameplay and narrative standpoint, sounds perfectly fine.

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

What's with the commentary on violence?

The medium has near-limitless potential, and in games like Tacoma, Firewatch and Beyond Eyes, we get a glimpse of what’s possible when games approach human experience through a lens of empathy rather than one of violence.

I wasn't aware that the developers stated explicitly that these games didn't feature violence. Firewatch especially.

When players are given the opportunity to see a game universe exclusively through the eyes of a female character with her own unique story, it helps challenge the idea that men can’t or shouldn’t identify with women, their lives, and their struggles.

Bizarre. Games like Mass Effect, Fallout, etc are gender-neutral in nature until you actually pick the sex of your character.

 

[CalamityPixel]

I'm very suprised that she used Blue and Pink to represent the genders they are usually attached to.

That asside, I think nearly 50% is very good for a gender choice game. While I think games with female leads, although low, stood out a lot at E3. Rise of the Tomb Raider, Recore, Horizon and of course Mirrors Edge were highlights of the show.

Hopefully we'll see Recore at gamescom.

 

[Bluenoser]

Any use of the numbers can be made to suit an argument either way, but the way I look at it is 55% of the games allow you to play as a female. 68% allow you to NOT play as a male.

When you consider the fact that some games are coming from pre-conceived stories that don't allow choice either way (Batman for example), the ratio is pretty damn good, and there's not a lot left to argue about from a feminist point of view. Look at the numbers for any entity on the planet that has members who could be considered real life heroes (Military, Police, Firefighters, Doctors, etc), and it's overwhelmingly male, so to close that gap significantly in electronic entertainment, is huge progress for women.

At the end of the day, developers/publishers want to sell games, and they will create their stories based on the ideas they think will sell the best. Tomb Raider worked out great, and so did Uncharted. I don't see a difference between the sex of the protagonist- all that matters to me is that the game is good.

Legitimate question- if gaming is so sexist why are over 50% of gamers women?LINK

Seems to me girls like games. Perhaps some would like to see more games about women, but I highly doubt anyone outside Anita's circle are arguing about the percentages.

 

[BPoole]

So 55% out of a possible 87% since we can't count the N/A which I assume are things like racing games that have no protagonist.

That seems pretty diverse to me

 

[Z3M0G]

This honestly looks like a pretty good ratio to me.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

I probably wouldn't buy a Mirrors Edge game if it was lead by a male protagonist. I probably wouldn't buy a Gears of War game if it was led by a female protagonist.

There's almost definitely a notable percentage of people who see a female protagonist then become no longer interested in that game, myself included.

I don't understand this perspective at all.

Why would you make your gaming choices based on the sex of the character, rather than, I don't know...the quality of the game?

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

As far as I'm concerned she lost all credibility when she:

- Made her disgusting comments about Dishonoured in regards to Emily/Corvo.

- Implied that all games were violent.

- Sensationalist article title with selective use of the data to suit her own agenda.

Looking at the data in a non biased factual way, being able to play games where the majority, yes over 50%, give you the option to play as a female is a massive deal.

Some games will always have male only protagonists, the same as some will always have female oy protagonists.

She's now at the point in this whole debate where it's glaringly obvious that she just wants to stay relevant in 'in the spotlight front and centre' and to do that, being selective of your data to push your own agenda riles people up and gets them talking about her.

It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[HK-47]

46% of games with the option for both genders is a solid number to hold onto.

Character creation is the new big thing nowadays.

But this irked me:

That is far from true and she should not present that as a fact.

I really dislike feminists that do the whole "violence is masculine, non-violence/nuturing is feminine" narrative. Violence and abuse and manipulating others is more a human problem than a gender problem, gender is just tied up into it.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Bizarre. Games like Mass Effect, Fallout, etc are gender-neutral in nature until you actually pick the sex of your character.

Females don't have their own special story so they don't count clearly.

 

[SinShep]

That is far from true and she should not present that as a fact.

Apparently that 24% means nothing to her.

 

[Mindwipe]

I don't think anything in what she wrote made her sound "upset." It's all pretty reasonable, straightforward and easy to understand even if you don't agree with it.

I think some people are too defensive and take Anita's opinions, which is really pretty basic and not inflammatory, way too seriously.

I take it we're ignoring the bits where conflict in drama is supposedly part of patriarchy and therefore even Fury Road is anti-feminist then?

 

[Druz]

Why is that? I'm genuinely curious.

Archetypes are going to change how the game is played or feels. Most of the time I want to play something closer to my perspective. I guess you could place a female in a generic male role to compensate if you really wanted.

How is anybody preventing you or anybody from buying what you want? This is not a movement to censor or remove games from the market.

It's not preventing me from doing anything. It's potentially limiting my interest in future games directly affected by what people are trying to push. It LOOKS like a movement to shame pubs/devs into making games with female protagonists. Horizons looks fantastic, Mirror's Edge and Dishonored look fantastic. New Tomb Raider coming out.

Apparently there's still this crime against women going on that I can't see.

I don't understand this perspective at all.

Why would you make your gaming choices based on the sex of the character, rather than, I don't know...the quality of the game?

Lot's of fantastic games out there to choose from. I sometimes don't want to experience a world through the perspective of a woman. Perhaps it's just many attempts that try to have everyone else relate are cringeworthy.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Hmm, the most shocking thing seems to be that only 76 games were shown at E3?

Those gender stats are pretty good, to be honest.

 

[Zakalwe]

46% of games shown allows the player to make a choice in their gender. That's actually pretty good, and over 50% allow for female to be chosen really shows the industry has made some good steps forward.

If there's one thing about her coverage of e3 that I hated, it was her complaint about Dishonored 2 allowing for choice in protagonist. Why are options a bad thing there? It's better than Corvo only

The goal is equality, and to achieve equality here we need a much better ratio of male/female in games led by a single protagonist.

We also need more transgender and gay protagonists, but that's not the focus of her fight.

I agree that she should be holding up D2 as a good example of a game offering choice, especially as it focuses on the female more than the male, and taking her fight elsewhere though.

 

[Pie and Beans]

This was the E3 where if you were going in to grind the "not enough female main characters in gaming!" axe, you had to sort of mumble "sorry" politely on your way out.

 

[Carl]

So the amount of games you can play as a woman is almost the same as the amount you can play as a guy?

Sounds like a better title.

 

[Infinite]

Eh. There is more narrative in Ecco than people give it credit for.

Even still when I watch finding nemo I don't think of Martin and Dory as fish I see them as a man or a single dad trying to raise his kid in these hard underwater streets and a woman who got pulled in for the ride. Those characters are given human characteristics so the audience can relate to their stories. This typically happens with movies or games featuring animals.

Ecco the dolphin would be the equivalent of a wild life special which do try and make you understand or learn about animals or even have you empathize with them going extinct or something to get you to do something about it. So that point was very silly.