Support NeoGAF

[openrob]

Hmm, why not. Could someone Shenmue-ify my avatar as well?

And mine!

Spoiler

Although it IS a Shenmue avatar lol

I'm on mobile and can't do it myself

 

[GavinGT]

And mine!

Spoiler

Although it IS a Shenmue avatar lol

I'm on mobile and can't do it myself

 

[master15]

I thought some of you members that asked why the current KS footage looks different from the originals may appreciate this information. Credit goes to Esspiral from the Dojo forums.

Ryo ingame model is around 1.900 polygons in Shenmue.
Ryo ingame model is above 3.000 polygons in Shenmue 2.
Ryo's passport body (yes it s a full body not just a face) around 15.000 polygons.
As for cgi models I read somewhere that they where in the line of 50.000 polygons.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Overdoing it can result in mod backlash and a policy of closing future threads. Best not to push one's luck too far.

Juuuust far enough.

I'm expecting that thread soon!

By the way, just in regards to Shenmue threads, I say don't be shy about making them! Whether it be about the music of Shenmue, a RTTP thread, a thread on why Shenmue is so good/important, a thread asking what your favourite part is, a thread on who your favourite character is etc.

We need to bring in as many people as possible, and by constantly talking about Shenmue and giving it attention for the next 22 days it's bound to attract new interest here on GAF. Keeping this thread on the first page is a very good thing too. No regrets guys. Drill Shenmue iiiiiiiin!

 

[GavinGT]

Overdoing it can result in mod backlash and a policy of closing future threads. Best not to push one's luck too far.

Juuuust far enough.

I agree, too many active threads and we may all be relegated to the community forum dumping grounds. Nobody has seen or heard from those people in years.

 

[Night Hunter]

I'm expecting that thread soon!

By the way, just in regards to Shenmue threads, I say don't be shy about making them! Whether it be about the music of Shenmue, a RTTP thread, a thread on why Shenmue is so good/important, a thread asking what your favourite part is, a thread on who your favourite character is etc.

We need to bring in as many people as possible, and by constantly talking about Shenmue and giving it attention for the next 22 days it's bound to attract new interest here on GAF. Keeping this thread on the first page is a very good thing too. No regrets guys. Drill Shenmue iiiiiiiin!

I would still ask the Mods for permission just to be on the safe side. Mking fewer new threads is better than all of them getting closed.

 

[MaxiLive]

I just saw this Gif which is pretty cool! Via ShenmueDojo + (Here)

The explosion of twitter activity when it was announced.

 

[kunonabi]

Still waiting on my Dreamcast VGA cable to arrive -_- Refuse to play Shenmue via RF.

On a related note, just noticed all the best versions of the RE classics are on the platform! Well, for the most part. Guess you could say Code Veronica X is missing.

RE3 has messed up controls and the timer in re2 is borked so sadly I wouldn't call them the best.

 

[Soi-Fong]

I thought some of you members that asked why the current KS footage looks different from the originals may appreciate this information. Credit goes to Esspiral from the Dojo forums.

Pretty sure they can go much much higher res than this. Consoles nowadays can actually support more polys than ever. Polygon budget isn't really a problem anymore.

More shaders are the problem now. Actually, I'm gonna try to do my own interpretation of Ryo in Max and try to sculpt out some details in Zbrush. I can imagine it'll look pretty good in UE4 as well once I also implement PBR into it. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend. lol

 

[Theonik]

I think I will be writing a PM to duckroll about it. Will let you know if he replies.

 

[Erevador]

Pretty sure they can go much much higher res than this. Consoles nowadays can actually support more polys than ever. Polygon budget isn't really a problem anymore.

More shaders are the problem now. Actually, I'm gonna try to do my own interpretation of Ryo in Max and try to sculpt out some details in Zbrush. I can imagine it'll look pretty good in UE4 as well once I also implement PBR into it. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend. lol

Be sure to show off your work in the thread when you're done!

 

[Hynad]

Pretty sure they can go much much higher res than this. Consoles nowadays can actually support more polys than ever. Polygon budget isn't really a problem anymore.

More shaders are the problem now. Actually, I'm gonna try to do my own interpretation of Ryo in Max and try to sculpt out some details in Zbrush. I can imagine it'll look pretty good in UE4 as well once I also implement PBR into it. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend. lol

I'd be totally fine if they simply used the 50k polygons models.

They still look perfectly fine to me.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Obviously don't spam Shenmue threads like crazy, but having about 1 or 2 of them every week for the next few weeks would do a lot of good. Just be smart about it and you'll be fine.

I just saw this Gif which is pretty cool! Via ShenmueDojo + (Here)

The explosion of twitter activity when it was announced.

Both epic and awesome!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Really cool information on what the rapport system may entail from a user named Himuro at Shenmue Dojo. They were reading an old interview where Yu Suzuki said this:

JM: I play games to do things I can't do in real life. Do you think games have become too real? If you were to do Shenmue 3, for example, would you take the same approach and make it super realistic, or would you take a different approach?

YS: The concept for Shenmue 3 already exists, so... [Laughs] The world of Shenmue 1 and 2 expanded outward. So, for example, in the original games, of all the data used for dialogue in the game, the main characters' dialogue was about 20%. The remaining 80% was dialogue by characters other than the two main characters. But Shenmue 3 doesn't expand outward, but inward. A lot of the dialogue is used for the main character and especially dialogue with Shenhua. They talk about a lot of different, deeper things. For example, and I can't say too much, but here's an example.

This is not actually in the game, but as an example to give you an idea of what I mean by deeper dialogue, when Shenhua and Ryo are at home, Shenhua will ask Ryo if he would like to drink tea or coffee and the player will select one or the other. Or, Shenhua will ask Ryo a hypothetical question like: "There are four animals; a monkey, cat, dog and bird. You are crossing the river but you need to leave one behind. Which one will you leave behind?" And the player has to choose one. Shenhua will ask lots and lots of questions like these and the answers will get stored in the game and affect the outcome of the player's relationship with other characters. It's like a personality test. For example, the person who leaves behind the monkey is the type of person who leaves their wife.

TH: That's scary. [Laughs]

JM: So it's more organic, and very contextual. Personally, I would leave the bird behind. The bird can fly across the river.

YS: It's very deep. I think it will be very interesting if it happens.

http://www.1up.com/features/disappearance-suzuki-part-2
http://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48047

 

[Hynad]

One horsepower indeed!

 

[Soi-Fong]

Really cool information on what the rapport system may entail from a user named Himuro at Shenmue Dojo. They were reading an old interview where Yu Suzuki said this:



http://www.1up.com/features/disappearance-suzuki-part-2
http://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48047

Holy fuck.. Leaving behind the monkey is leaving behind the wife...? I'm guessing that's a cultural thing..?

That's awesome though that that's what he's planning. Those sorts of open ended questions.

 

[Theonik]

I thought some of you members that asked why the current KS footage looks different from the originals may appreciate this information. Credit goes to Esspiral from the Dojo forums.

According to Yu Suzuki circa GDC 2000 they had scans made from clay models for the characters which they based the game models on. These were 50k polygons for the facial features alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEt6yZPVcY&t=35m
Actually a number of funny comments around that timestamp. I like the part where he talks about the dub and number of characters and is like 'Too many! Too expensive!' doing hand gestures at the same time.

Pretty sure they can go much much higher res than this. Consoles nowadays can actually support more polys than ever. Polygon budget isn't really a problem anymore.

More shaders are the problem now. Actually, I'm gonna try to do my own interpretation of Ryo in Max and try to sculpt out some details in Zbrush. I can imagine it'll look pretty good in UE4 as well once I also implement PBR into it. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend. lol

Lots of polygons are still a problem in a modern game running in real time. Especially now that polygons share the same resources as shaders actually. In older fixed purpose hardware there was little reason to do less than the maximum polygons you could other than cost. Modern in-game assets use very different creation pipelines and ways to achieve detail than when Shenmue was made. In the first place back then you only really had polygons to play around with and textures, now you have normal maps, displacement maps etc etc. You will not tend to have nearly as many polygons in your scene as you could at all and your focus would be on spending resources on shaders instead. VR is changing this though since many of the cost-saving measures that are used in traditional games break when players can inspect things up close like they can in VR. New strategies are needed.
/aside

 

[Laevateinn]

Really cool information on what the rapport system may entail from a user named Himuro at Shenmue Dojo. They were reading an old interview where Yu Suzuki said this:



http://www.1up.com/features/disappearance-suzuki-part-2
http://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48047

This needs to happen. I don't care how much exploration and stuff we get to interact with. I want the Shenhua personality quiz.

 

[Trojan X]

Holy fuck.. Leaving behind the monkey is leaving behind the wife...? I'm guessing that's a cultural thing..?

That's awesome though that that's what he's planning. Those sorts of open ended questions.

This makes me more determined to get those funding raised!!

COME ON, PEOPLE! BRING ON SOME IDEAS! ARE YOU SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT SHENMUE VIA YOUR TWITTER AND FACEBOOK?! DO SOMETHING!

...

And do this to all 2011 haters if they mess with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIF5ElwC34o

 

[Night Hunter]

Really cool information on what the rapport system may entail from a user named Himuro at Shenmue Dojo. They were reading an old interview where Yu Suzuki said this:



http://www.1up.com/features/disappearance-suzuki-part-2
http://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48047

Why would anyone not leave the bird behind?

 

[GavinGT]

This makes me more determined to get those funding raised!!

COME ON, PEOPLE! BRING ON SOME IDEAS! ARE YOU SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT SHENMUE VIA YOUR TWITTER AND FACEBOOK?! DO SOMETHING!

...

And do this to all 2011 haters if they mess with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIF5ElwC34o

This Kickstarter is the first time I've regretted having zero social media presence.

 

[Audioboxer]

Do note that Shenmue II experiences significant problems being played on the 360 however, but is playable to the end.


And RE:Make. But you get great versions of RE2 and 3.

Played ReMake on PS4

Going to grab copies of 2/3, absolutely love both and haven't played either since my PS1 days.

RE3 has messed up controls and the timer in re2 is borked so sadly I wouldn't call them the best.

Sad to hear Still want them!

 

[Theonik]

So I got a reply from duckroll:

If he is doing a stream and you want more people to know about it, it should definitely be a new thread.

So there we go. We should have at it but please be nice~

Why would anyone not leave the bird behind?

Because they are terrible people who don't trust that the bird will fly across to join them.

 

[Laevateinn]

Why would anyone not leave the bird behind?

Cats are murdering machines. It can take care of itself. Maybe the bird's wings are clipped?

 

[Aggelos]

guys, is Shenmue III kickstarter supporting any paypal?

 

[Soi-Fong]

According to Yu Suzuki circa GDC 2000 they had scans made from clay models for the characters which they based the game models on. These were 50k polygons for the facial features alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEt6yZPVcY&t=35m
Actually a number of funny comments around that timestamp. I like the part where he talks about the dub and number of characters and is like 'Too many! Too expensive!' doing hand gestures at the same time.


Lots of polygons are still a problem in a modern game running in real time. Especially now that polygons share the same resources as shaders actually. In older fixed purpose hardware there was little reason to do less than the maximum polygons you could other than cost. Modern in-game assets use very different creation pipelines and ways to achieve detail than when Shenmue was made. In the first place back then you only really had polygons to play around with and textures, now you have normal maps, displacement maps etc etc. You will not tend to have nearly as many polygons in your scene as you could at all and your focus would be on spending resources on shaders instead. VR is changing this though since many of the cost-saving measures that are used in traditional games break when players can inspect things up close like they can in VR. New strategies are needed.
/aside

That's what PBR fixes in some ways! Especially the metallic roughness workflow since you can get away with an extra greyscale map.

It's crazy having done PBR for a few months on just how powerful the roughness map is. And the lighting is taken care of for you as well since everything is physically based.

I'm just saying that extra poly's can be used for things like the patches on Ryo's jacket instead of relying on the Normal map.

 

[KORNdoggy]

These were 50k polygons for the facial features alone.

wait...the poly count was higher then that of the last of us' joel? that's some seriously inefficient use of polys...or am i reading that wrong?

 

[Spaghetti]

guys, is Shenmue III kickstarter supporting any paypal?

if my memory is right, they can't set up for paypal pledges until after the actual kickstarter is over.

 

[ArisenDragon]

if my memory is right, they can't set up for paypal pledges until after the actual kickstarter is over.

Most other kickstarters did it about mid way through.

 

[GavinGT]

Notice how the promised Portuguese stretch goal still isn't up. I bet they'll add it alongside a page revamp today or tomorrow.

Also, Shenmue really brings out the Portuguese speakers.

 

[Hynad]

guys, is Shenmue III kickstarter supporting any paypal?

Yu is working on letting people provide their pledge through other methods like paypal. But it hasn't yet been implemented.

 

[Spaghetti]

Most other kickstarters did it about mid way through.

oh really? guess it should be coming eventually then.

 

[Theonik]

wait...the poly count was higher then that of the last of us' joel? that's some seriously inefficient use of polys...or am i reading that wrong?

They made clay models of all the main characters, they scanned those at 50k polygons for the face alone, then reduced their numbers for the in-game and Shenmue passport models. The in-game real time models are much more efficient.
There exist scans at ridiculous quality of the main characters as well as clay models if SEGA hasn't gotten rid of them which Yu Suzuki should have access to. And the comparisons with modern AAA games are pretty funny considering Shenmue was basically a modern AAA game made in 1999. lol

 

[Soi-Fong]

They made clay models of all the main characters, they scanned those at 50k polygons for the face alone, then reduced their numbers for the in-game and Shenmue passport models. The in-game real time models are much more efficient.
There exist scans at ridiculous quality of the main characters as well as clay models if SEGA hasn't gotten rid of them which Yu Suzuki should have access to. And the comparisons with modern AAA games are pretty funny considering Shenmue was basically a modern AAA game made in 1999. lol

Same thing is done with modern motion capture really. Usually motion capture captures too much data so animators have to clean it up and get rid of unnecessary keyframes.

 

[Spaghetti]

They made clay models of all the main characters, they scanned those at 50k polygons for the face alone, then reduced their numbers for the in-game and Shenmue passport models. The in-game real time models are much more efficient.
There exist scans at ridiculous quality of the main characters as well as clay models if SEGA hasn't gotten rid of them which Yu Suzuki should have access to. And the comparisons with modern AAA games are pretty funny considering Shenmue was basically a modern AAA game made in 1999. lol

that is all kinds of nuts.

 

[Theonik]

if my memory is right, they can't set up for paypal pledges until after the actual kickstarter is over.

They can't before the goal is met which it is. They should ideally be getting that stuff setup right now since they can expect to make a nice bonus out of it even with the campaign still running.

That's what PBR fixes in some ways! Especially the metallic roughness workflow since you can get away with an extra greyscale map.

It's crazy having done PBR for a few months on just how powerful the roughness map is. And the lighting is taken care of for you as well since everything is physically based.

I'm just saying that extra poly's can be used for things like the patches on Ryo's jacket instead of relying on the Normal map.

Oh sure, it's a balancing act of sorts. What I am wondering is how much they can actually salvage from the original scans. Would be a lot of effort potentially.

Same thing is done with modern motion capture really. Usually motion capture captures too much data so animators have to clean it up and get rid of unnecessary keyframes.

Which can actually make animating things by hand far more efficient and cheap in some cases.

 

[Soi-Fong]

They can't before the goal is met which it is. They should ideally be getting that stuff setup right now since they can expect to make a nice bonus out of it even with the campaign still running.


Oh sure, it's a balancing act of sorts. What I am wondering is how much they can actually salvage from the original scans. Would be a lot of effort potentially.


Which can actually make animating things by hand far more efficient and cheap in some cases.

Yeah, I agree with you. Having cleaned up mo-cap data, it can get a bit annoying some times. But get it right and you get beautiful animations like those from Uncharted.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

This makes me more determined to get those funding raised!!

COME ON, PEOPLE! BRING ON SOME IDEAS! ARE YOU SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT SHENMUE VIA YOUR TWITTER AND FACEBOOK?! DO SOMETHING!

...

And do this to all 2011 haters if they mess with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIF5ElwC34o

I endorse this message X 10 billion. GO NUTS PEOPLE! DO, NOT JUST SAY!

 

[Krev]

Really cool information on what the rapport system may entail from a user named Himuro at Shenmue Dojo. They were reading an old interview where Yu Suzuki said this:

Himuro is one of the legends of Olden GAF. Somehow when he was banned his account was deleted.

Also, that sounds amazing.

 

[ArisenDragon]

How much you guys and gals been putting up I only put 29 bucks for now even though I am a huge huge fan. Just don't have the money right now.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

There is. Spread it everywhere: $30 on the 3rd.

I might even make a new thread for it on the 3rd.

Cool. But I think raising your pledge by any amount should be encouraged (preferably a thematically fitting one though). $30 is too much for some.

 

[Aggelos]

Yu is working on letting people provide their pledge through other methods like paypal. But it hasn't yet been implemented.

Alright cool... Hopefully, he'll do it sooner or later....

 

[Theonik]

that is all kinds of nuts.

It was. Poor Yu. Watching that presentation was cool as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEt6yZPVcY&t=15m48s - Talking about Berkley and music and later visuals that were later evolved into Shenmue, you can see some of the original sculptures there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEt6yZPVcY&t=25m25s - Re: 200+ voice-actors 'Too many, too expensive'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEt6yZPVcY&t=35m30s - Re: Sculptures and reducing the polygons 'We are not making games for the PlayStation you know, 2 ya know?' (he later talks about having an automatic lip-synch system that can sync audio dynamically)
For people who wonder why voices on Shenmue suck so much, you should consider having to fit hundreds of character worth of voices on 3 GD-Roms. They had to compress the audio significantly. Never actually investigated how much but it sounds like it is coming from a Telephone because they probably used the same level of compression you get on a phone line just to make it fit.

Yeah, I agree with you. Having cleaned up mo-cap data, it can get a bit annoying some times. But get it right and you get beautiful animations like those from Uncharted.

I kinda wish they gave Yu Suzuki a real AAA budget for Shenmue III. He could probably blow us away. Shenmue really came ahead of its time, but is very much a product of its time. When huge budget games and pushing envelopes was still considered a good thing universally.

But just the fact we are getting Shenmue III is amazing on its own.

 

[El_Cinefilo]

Urgh, just listened to IGN's E3 podcast beyond and when they get to Shenmue 3 they say Sony is helping fund it and the girl with them shouts over and "corrects" them saying Sony is Fully funding the game and the Kickstarter is just to gauge interest and the rest say how unimportant the stretch goals are. I understand it was recorded at the show before it was all clarified but those kind of baseless assumptions on such a popular show has to hurt the campaign.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

How much you guys and gals been putting up I only put 29 bucks for now even though I am a huge huge fan. Just don't have the money right now.

I've gone for $29 so far (well $30 actually, I had to round up or it would have bugged me forever). Part of why I was hoping for a PS4 physical version was to cushion the jump to putting more in. I don't have a ton of disposable cash to throw at this, however much I want to, so I need a little more justification.

I have a crap laptop that if it tried to run UE4 would probably be measuring frames per 10 seconds, so a PC digital version at $60, or the PC only trial version at $100 are pointless for me. Which leaves me at the $120 tier, where I'd be upping my pledge by $90 for a capsule toy. Fortunately the $160 tier has a lot more that actually interests me, both in-game stuff and external stuff, and then possibly up to $175 for the art book. I'm giving myself until the 3rd to mull it over, but I am feeling better about it since yesterday when Yu's letter, which seems to rule out PS4 physical, was first posted.

 

[DangerMouse]

What we need to do is worry less about the numbers and more about convincing people the Kickstarter is cool, we need to create the second wave that will bring us closer to getting more money into this kickstarter, despairing over things that will happen only if we make them so isn't going to help this campaign at all.
So yeah to anyone reading this and is watching on the side, back this campaign! If you care about Shenmue back this campaign, if you don't care about Shenmue just look at how much we care about Shenmue! Tell your friends. kthx

Yeah.

Big sites love to cash in on faux-controversy, and then cash in on the faux-controversy backlash.

It is a ridiculous cycle.

Yup. Good to see that article you linked, hopefully some more of those go up. Thanks for the link it was good to see.

 

[Shadow2222]

How much you guys and gals been putting up I only put 29 bucks for now even though I am a huge huge fan. Just don't have the money right now.

I have $310 in but I'll possibly go up to $750 depending on what rewards get posted.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Who's planning on creating the Twitch thread? Ideally it should be up by tonite.

 

[get2sammyb]

Urgh, just listened to IGN's E3 podcast beyond and when they get to Shenmue 3 they say Sony is helping fund it and the girl with them shouts over and "corrects" them saying Sony is Fully funding the game and the Kickstarter is just to gauge interest and the rest say how unimportant the stretch goals are. I understand it was recorded at the show before it was all clarified but those kind of baseless assumptions on such a popular show has to hurt the campaign.

Don't worry - no one listens to Beyond anymore. XD

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

I've been watching this Kickstarter carefully and there doesn't seem to be a lot of movement at all lately. I don't think there is anyway it's going to reach it's $10 Million goal at this rate.