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[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Except there is absolutely no evidence showing that economic policies can solve racism. Every big liberal economic policy has resulted in black people lagging behind while whites reap the benefits because this country was literally and figuratively built through racism.

Sounds like you're trying to interject your *opinions* on policy and racial issues as fact and then revolving the discussion around that.

If we don't agree with your premise then there's not much to debate here on if Bernie is fighting the good fight or not.

Seems like your mind was already made up about Bernie and no amount of evidence will change it.

 

[jmood88]

I'm talking about Bill Clinton.

You are saying that progressive economic polices haven't helped black people in the past. I'm saying we haven't had a president with the balls to push truly progressive economic policies in our lifetime.

No, what I'm saying is that no matter who you have in there, if your solution to racism is economic policy, then you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no economic policy that will fix racism in this country and we've seen that time and time again. Too many white liberals think that if we just put good policy out there, then everyone will be fine but that is just not reality.

Sounds like you're trying to interject your *opinions* on policy and racial issues as fact and then revolving the discussion around that.

If we don't agree with your premise then there's not much to debate here on if Bernie is fighting the good fight or not.

Seems like your mind was already made up about Bernie and no amount of evidence will change it.

So please tell me which economic policies have helped end racism.

 

[The Maverick]

And this is the fundamental disconnect between white and black liberals. O'Malley's reforms are the types of policy that invariably lead to black people getting arrested for the smallest things and a police force that is taught to basically go into black neighborhoods and tear shit up. Bernie Sanders' belief that economic policy trumps everything else is why so many well-meaning liberal policies that address one aspect of life while completely ignoring race result in black people falling way behind everyone else. So sure, we may share the same stance on a lot of things but if you want to keep advocating for "colorblind" policy, all that does is ignore the elephant in the room that black people (and other minorities) have had to deal with for generations in this country. What good is increasing the minimum wage if the people hiring are throwing away job applications because someone's name is "too ethnic"? Why does it matter that the big banks are broken up if they're still giving unfair loans to non-white people? In Bernie's case, he supports a vast majority of the stuff that I support but I also have to live in a country where systemic racism is the norm and where simply changing policy is just putting a band-aid on the problem.



As someone on twitter said, it's great that he was marching during the civil rights movement but people want to know where he was this year when unarmed black people were getting killed by the police.

My new favorite poster has arrived.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Why would Clinton be better than Sanders on issues of race, given their voting histories and past actions? I think the Vox article has some points about why Sanders' focuses aren't sufficient for some racial equality activists, but it's pretty non-comparative. Sanders isn't running against some hypothetical idealized candidate, he's running against Hillary Clinton, whose position is not dissimilar to Sanders and who has a worse voting record on racial equality [1, 2] according to the NAACP's rankings. Obviously Sanders can stand to do better, but he still seems the preferable option for non-white voters in terms of beneficial policy outcomes.

But this isn't about Hillary, and most black activists (including the ones that disrupted Sanders and O'Malley) have been critiquing her FAR longer than those two. It just seems like the defensiveness and dismissing popped up like weeds when Sanders gets critique.

This thread feels like a microcosm of the old "we're cool with y'all if you support our goals, but we'll snap back if you start asking for your goals to be vocal point".

Because that's all the protesters are asking; for state violence to be a prominent vocal point. Enough to apply social pressure. But Sanders seems way more focused on trying to help "everyone" economically when there are some in immediate danger.

 

[demon]

Racism created the economic disparity, so just fixing the economic aspect isn't going to get rid of the racism.

Bernie couches everything in economics.

How does one "get rid of racism"? How is enforcing a police body camera policy more directly addressing racism than fighting income inequality or many of the other things Sanders advocates?

 

[And_Gignac]

That Vox article is spot on. Bernie is trying to heal the festering would of our school systems, mass incarceration, and economic gaps, rather than specifically talk about body cams or punishment for police departments.

He needs to realize that he's got to hit a FEW of the talking points that blacks in America want addressed. Even if Bernie made all his changes, and they remained in place for years to come, it would take decades to reap the rewards.

He is the only candidate talking about actually putting in jail police officers who commit racial crimes, watch his latests rallies (as far as I recall Hillary has only talked about cams). Where are you getting your info from? It feels like Bernie team is awful at getting this message across, even with the excellent record Bernie has against Hillary is this regard, or there's a collective of bloggers trying to push a narrative that isn't there.

And he didnt walk out. The moderator said time was up, not Bernie. Anyway, the protesters have a right to do so, and it certainly helped since Bernie is addressing the movement more openly.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

No, what I'm saying is that no matter who you have in there, if your solution to racism is economic policy, then you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no economic policy that will fix racism in this country and we've seen that time and time again. Too many white liberals think that if we just put good policy out there, then everyone will be fine but that is just not reality.

There's no economic policy that will "fix" racism in the sense that no person of colour is discriminated against, but I think it is quite blatantly untrue to say that there is no economic policy that can mitigate or reduce racism. There is a strong correlation between racism and income - people from lower socio-economic backgrounds tend to be more racist, and people tend to become more racist during periods of economic crisis [1, 2]. If you have a more egalitarian society which provides a cushion for support, you both a) ameliorate the position of black individuals, who are amongst the poorest as it stands, and b) ameliorate the position of the black community as poor whites' perception of black people improves.

 

[SteveWinwood]

this is like a whole thread of that drive by slayven post about how sanders took more than 30 seconds to answer a question about race and that said something because reasons

 

[metalslimer]

I don't think that the any publicity is good publicity but I think in this situation forcing the topic into the conversation is worthwhile.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But this isn't about Hillary, and most black activists (including the ones that disrupted Sanders and O'Malley) have been critiquing her FAR longer than those two. It just seems like the defensiveness and dismissing popped up like weeds when Sanders gets critique.

This thread feels like a microcosm of the old "we're cool with y'all if you support our goals, but we'll snap back if you start asking for your goals to be vocal point".

Because that's all the protesters are asking; for state violence to be a prominent vocal point. Enough to apply social pressure. But Sanders seems way more focused on trying to help "everyone" economically when there are some in immediate danger.

Yes, I understand that - see my response to jmood's post which can also serve as a response to this (it got lost at the bottom of the last page).

 

[Enron]

I think they chose Bernie Sanders simply because it was the next high profile candidate event in the state. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[PhoenixDark]

He is the only candidate talking about actually putting in jail police officers who commit crimes, watch his latests rallies (as far as I recall Hillary has only talked about cams). Where are you getting your info from? It feels like Bernie team is awful at getting this message across, even with the excellent record Bernie has against Hillary is this regard, or there's a collective of bloggers trying to push a narrative that isn't there.

You can't help people who don't want to learn. Sanders' record is easily viewable/searchable, as are his speeches. Racism/white supremacy isn't going to be fixed by the next president. What can be addressed is economic inequality - which again, won't be fixed by the next president but can at least be tackled. The same applies to criminal justice reform and a host of other issues.

 

[aeolist]

i get the point of this, but what do they specifically want beyond what sanders already supports?

 

[ArchedThunder]

No, what I'm saying is that no matter who you have in there, if your solution to racism is economic policy, then you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no economic policy that will fix racism in this country and we've seen that time and time again. Too many white liberals think that if we just put good policy out there, then everyone will be fine but that is just not reality.

And Bernie isn't saying it will end racism, he's been open about it being a slow process and something that obviously can't be achieved in one or two presidential terms. The point is to make things better for minorities by taking the focus away from jailing and instead putting a focus on educating, to lower unemployment for minorities, to reform the criminal justice system to stop mass incarceration and murder by police and just basically all around level the playing field as much as possible to give young people better opportunities and a better chance at life.

 

[G.ZZZ]

There's no economic policy that will "fix" racism in the sense that no person of colour is discriminated against, but I think it is quite blatantly untrue to say that there is no economic policy that can mitigate or reduce racism. There is a strong correlation between racism and income - people from lower socio-economic backgrounds tend to be more racist, and people tend to become more racist during periods of economic crisis [1, 2]. If you have a more egalitarian society which provides a cushion for support, you both a) ameliorate the position of black individuals, who are amongst the poorest as it stands, and b) ameliorate the position of the black community as poor whites' perception of black people improves.

But you say this only because you're a white liberal, you don't understand black liberals!

This would so fucking hilarious if it weren't so sad, seeing people actively working to have it shittier in life, for themselves, and for others.

 

[Guevara]

I don't think that the any publicity is good publicity but I think in this situation forcing the topic into the conversation is worthwhile.

I actually think it could backfire, the last thing BLM needs is to seem "unreasonable". If they get painted as a fringe movement they'll get excluded from the conversation entirely.

BLM needs to work through the political process to effect any change. Right now it's just shouting at inappropriate times, and then joking about it on Twitter.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I've never understood what the point of asking a question and then talking over someone when they try and answer is, except that you don't actually give two shits. You're there to feel like you're doing something important.

Also, when you're advocating apparent anarchy and the destruction of the current system of government, you might not be suggesting a solution most people are willing to accept.

As to the political issues, while I see where people see Sanders' economics viewpoint as excessively reductionist, from a political standpoint focusing on inequality in general seems like the more effective political strategy, and pragmatically I think any sorts of reforms to reduce wage gaps can only benefit all races in America.

 

[jmood88]

There's no economic policy that will "fix" racism in the sense that no person of colour is discriminated against, but I think it is quite blatantly untrue to say that there is no economic policy that can mitigate or reduce racism. There is a strong correlation between racism and income - people from lower socio-economic backgrounds tend to be more racist, and people tend to become more racist during periods of economic crisis [1, 2]. If you have a more egalitarian society which provides a cushion for support, you both a) ameliorate the position of black individuals, who are amongst the poorest as it stands, and b) ameliorate the position of the black community as poor whites' perception of black people improves.

Black people have higher morbidity/mortality rates at every socioeconomic level compared to whites in large part due to the stress of racism. Whether you're a doctor, professor, lawyer, whatever, if you're black you're more likely to suffer from disease and die earlier than a white person at the same socioeconomic level. You'll have better health than a poorer black person but you'll still be worse off than everyone else. Economic policy won't fix that. Racism is the fundamental issue in this country, not economic equality. Working on eliminating problems related to racism will have a far greater impact than simply looking at economic solutions.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Black people have higher morbidity/mortality rates at every socioeconomic level compared to whites in large part due to the stress of racism. Whether you're a doctor, professor, lawyer, whatever, if you're black you're more likely to suffer from disease and die earlier than a white person at the same socioeconomic level. You'll have better health than a poorer black person but you'll still be worse off than everyone else. Economic policy won't fix that. Racism is the fundamental issue in this country, not economic equality.

So what should be done?

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I actually think it could backfire, the last thing BLM needs is to seem "unreasonable". If they get painted as a fringe movement they'll get excluded from the conversation entirely.

BLM needs to work through the political process to effect any change. Right now it's just shouting at inappropriate times, and then joking about it on Twitter.

They're not exactly "in" the conversation in the first place. Pretty sure the disruption showed that. You know, if the cops haven't numerous times.

They are an element sure. Something seen as a political wave, sure. Media outlets get interviews with some activists, sure. But actually heard?


I think this thread, and hell, the media in general, shows that no they aren't. Not enough on the national stage. And won't be until people are practically forced to listen. Made uncomfortable.


And look it here! That's exactly what these protesters attempted.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Black people have higher morbidity/mortality rates at every socioeconomic level compared to whites in large part due to the stress of racism. Whether you're a doctor, professor, lawyer, whatever, if you're black you're more likely to suffer from disease and die earlier than a white person at the same socioeconomic level. You'll have better health than a poorer black person but you'll still be worse off than everyone else. Economic policy won't fix that. Racism is the fundamental issue in this country, not economic equality.

I don't disagree with any of this, except possibly the very last sentence. I do have two points, though. Firstly, suppose that, tomorrow, everyone woke up and no longer discriminated against anyone on the basis of their race from that point on. Black people would still be worse off than white people after ten, twenty, fifty years because under the status quo they are already poor because of past racism, which means given America's terrible intergenerational social mobility, the effects of that past racism would still be felt even within the elimination of present racism. Secondly, racism is not independent of economic equality. As I cited in my post, poorer white people and white people in difficult economic times are more racist - because they have less access to education, and because they buy into the narrative that black people are responsible for the fact they're poor. That means improving economic equality reduces racism, so even when you accept that ending racism is the single most important goal of any presidential candidate, you have to accept that economic equality is an instrumental means of achieving that.

Also, these policies don't conflict. It's perfectly possible to support the reduction of economic inequality and attempt to combat racism. Body cameras for the police and improving educational access for the poorest are not in some zero-sum game.

 

[dave is ok]

And look it here! That's exactly what these protesters attempted.

And failed miserably.

Talking over people and shouting slogans doesn't get people interested in your cause.

 

[nynt9]

Black people have higher morbidity/mortality rates at every socioeconomic level compared to whites in large part due to the stress of racism. Whether you're a doctor, professor, lawyer, whatever, if you're black you're more likely to suffer from disease and die earlier than a white person at the same socioeconomic level. You'll have better health than a poorer black person but you'll still be worse off than everyone else. Economic policy won't fix that. Racism is the fundamental issue in this country, not economic equality. Working on eliminating problems related to racism will have a far greater impact than simply looking at economic solutions.

Why are black people less healthy than other races even at middle/high class? Also what is your suggested fix here?

 

[dramatis]

I don't believe that economic progress will solve racism; after all, economic prosperity hasn't solved sexism, and that's half the population. I don't doubt economic progress could ameliorate some racial issues and help black people, but it's definitely not the solution to everything.

But this isn't about Hillary, and most black activists (including the ones that disrupted Sanders and O'Malley) have been critiquing her FAR longer than those two. It just seems like the defensiveness and dismissing popped up like weeds when Sanders gets critique.

This thread feels like a microcosm of the old "we're cool with y'all if you support our goals, but we'll snap back if you start asking for your goals to be vocal point".

Because that's all the protesters are asking; for state violence to be a prominent vocal point. Enough to apply social pressure. But Sanders seems way more focused on trying to help "everyone" economically when there are some in immediate danger.

At this point I think people are more annoyed by Bernie supporters than they are by Bernie really. I know I am, and the unintentional #BernieSoBlack tag on Twitter is kind of a reflection on that. The guy who started the tag by accident said that Bernie's supporters keep bringing up how Bernie marched with MLK and worked for civil rights, to the point where he was just frustrated at how they were clearly telling black people how Bernie was so black he was blacker than them (the black twitter posters voicing concerns).

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9005855/black-twitter-bernie-sanders

Honestly, the joke is not even on Bernie Sanders. That's what's so funny — the joke is on the defense of him, which is, if you extrapolate to the furthest extent, he can do no wrong on race. Like, we should not even expect anything of him, he put in his time already, we need to just shut up.

You know what, I thought the Democratic primaries were going to be boring, but I like that it's turning out to be more interesting and in-depth than I thought. I'll ruminate for the Dems and pop popcorn for the Republicans.

 

[Infinite]

Why are black people less healthy than other races even at middle/high class? Also what is your suggested fix here?

He literally gave you the reason in the very same post

 

[nynt9]

I don't believe that economic progress will solve racism; after all, economic prosperity hasn't solved sexism, and that's half the population. I don't doubt economic progress could ameliorate some racial issues and help black people, but it's definitely not the solution to everything.

To be fair we haven't had the kind of economic progress he's talking about so we can't really compare. Also, nothing can really "solve" racism other than educating the new generation to prevent bigotry from spreading, imo. You can minimize the avenues racists have for expressing their racism, but you can't make them not racist unless you fundamentally reeducate them somehow. It's an education issue which comes back to economic policy. Everyone needs access to education, and education should prevent people from having ignorant views.

He literally gave you the reason in the very same post

No. Why are black people more susceptible to disease? I'm asking for the root cause. Is it hereditary or some external factor?

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

And failed miserably.

Talking over people and shouting slogans doesn't get people interested in your cause.

But it sure has made people angry and uncomfortable. Those who were hiding under the veil of "oh yeah, I support equality" are coming out of them real quick when one of their favorites is getting put to question. When protesters aren't willing to be in the backburner.

"Hi. I'm a Presidential Candidate. I believe that #BlackLivesMatter and I have policies to address the tragic loss of life we've witnessed."

It could have been that simple. Bonus if he had said some names. Bernie built this.


His supporters are fanning the flames by dismissing and insulting those with legitimate concerns and shitting on a movement made by black queer women that put the work in to push this conversation before #NN15, during, and after through protest.

 

[Condom]

Why don't they go pick on rightwing people? Or at least Hilary. Fighting your own cause like in this case is idiotic.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I don't believe that economic progress will solve racism; after all, economic prosperity hasn't solved sexism, and that's half the population. I don't doubt economic progress could ameliorate some racial issues and help black people, but it's definitely not the solution to everything.


At this point I think people are more annoyed by Bernie supporters than they are by Bernie really. I know I am, and the unintentional #BernieSoBlack tag on Twitter is kind of a reflection on that. The guy who started the tag by accident said that Bernie's supporters keep bringing up how Bernie marched with MLK and worked for civil rights, to the point where he was just frustrated at how they were clearly telling black people how Bernie was so black he was blacker than them (the black twitter posters voicing concerns).

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/9005855/black-twitter-bernie-sanders



You know what, I thought the Democratic primaries were going to be boring, but I like that it's turning out to be more interesting and in-depth than I thought. I'll ruminate for the Dems and pop popcorn for the Republicans.

Exactly. Thank you for posting that.

 

[Arkeband]

Bernie was hashtagging those specific social movements yesterday on his official FB page.

And don't even start Kamikaze, we're onto you (plural).

 

[Mumei]

Why are black people less healthy than other races even at middle/high class? Also what is your suggested fix here?

Here's more detail.

Dr. Michelle Gourdine, a former deputy secretary of health and chief public health physician for Maryland, explains that extreme stress causes wear and tear on our internal organs, contributing to heart disease, high blood pressure and stroke in black women—all diseases of aging. “The cells that make up your heart, your blood vessels, whatever else, begin to age prematurely because of all the stress, and that predisposes you to disease,” says Gourdine, author of Reclaiming Our Health: A Guide to African American Wellness.

She points to a 2010 National Institutes of Health study titled “Do US Black Women Experience Stress-Related Accelerated Biological Aging?” The study’s authors analyzed data from the Study of Women’s Health Across the Nation and found that black women between the ages of 49 and 55 are 7.5 years biologically “older” than white women.

“US blacks are more likely to experience stressful situations, such as material hardship, interpersonal discrimination, structural discrimination in housing and employment, and multiple caregiving roles than whites,” the authors wrote.

 

[dabig2]

And failed miserably.

Talking over people and shouting slogans doesn't get people interested in your cause.

Man, those uppity black people really fucked up eh? All these kind white people who were going to allot to them more rights now won't do it.

Then again, that black people need to do anything (or not do something) to get people interested in their cause is part of the greater racial problem in America.

 

[see5harp]

No. Why are black people more susceptible to disease? I'm asking for the root cause. Is it hereditary or some external factor?

He said that the reason is "racism."

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Why don't they go pick on rightwing people? Or at least Hilary. Fighting your own cause like in this case is idiotic.

Oh my god, critique does not equal "fighting your own cause".

Bernie most likely IS part of the "cause", but he needs to make that a prominent vocal point and political point if he wants to truly differentiate himself from Hillary. Especially with this flub, and the reactions from his supporters.


"Hi. I'm a Presidential Candidate. I believe that #BlackLivesMatter and I have policies to address the tragic loss of life we've witnessed."

Again, that simple. Say some names of black men and namely black women who have suffered from state violence, roll out a plan. Even a prototype.

 

[royalan]

You can't help people who don't want to learn. Sanders' record is easily viewable/searchable, as are his speeches. Racism/white supremacy isn't going to be fixed by the next president. What can be addressed is economic inequality - which again, won't be fixed by the next president but can at least be tackled. The same applies to criminal justice reform and a host of other issues.

Those people that "don't want to learn" are the voting block that's going to cost Bernie Boy the primaries. He better clear up his message if he knows what's good for him.

 

[Cat]

He said that the reason is "racism."

He said:
"Black people have higher morbidity/mortality rates at every socioeconomic level compared to whites in large part due to the stress of racism."

Mumei has a post further up explaining this as well. Stress impacts health.

 

[dave is ok]

Here's more detail.

He said that the reason is "racism."

I think he was referring the the David Chae study, which used google search analysis for the n-word for areas and compared the mortality rate. It was pretty "science-ish" but I don't know if the correlation is actually meaningful at all.

 

[Infinite]

Bernie was hashtagging those specific social movements yesterday on his official FB page.

And don't even start Kamikaze, we're onto you (plural).

He's using the hashtag "sayhername" but two out of the three names he tweets out belong to men.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Those people that "don't want to learn" are the voting block that's going to cost Bernie Boy the primaries. He better clear up his message if he knows what's good for him.

He's going to lose regardless, no particular group is going to "cost" him something he has no shot at winning in the first place. That being said I definitely think people should at least listen to what the man has to say and look at his record.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Bernie was hashtagging those specific social movements yesterday on his official FB page.

And don't even start Kamikaze, we're onto you (plural).

Hah, that got old in the other thread.

Bernie's team royally screwed up that post too. Enough that they had to edit it (check out that post now).

You don't put #SayHerName, and then add a one woman and multiple men. That hashtag was meant strictly to point out that black women were dealing with state violence too, and were getting nearly as much attention.


Only Bernie (and his team) is going to curb this. By listening, actually listening. And maybe diversifying the team too, because they clearly don't know how to converse in this specific space. But they are going to need to, because his supporters right now are torching a whole lot of good will from black voters and activists (many of who have a lot of younger black voters attention).

 

[Train of Midnight]

There's no economic policy that will "fix" racism in the sense that no person of colour is discriminated against, but I think it is quite blatantly untrue to say that there is no economic policy that can mitigate or reduce racism. There is a strong correlation between racism and income - people from lower socio-economic backgrounds tend to be more racist, and people tend to become more racist during periods of economic crisis [1, 2]. If you have a more egalitarian society which provides a cushion for support, you both a) ameliorate the position of black individuals, who are amongst the poorest as it stands, and b) ameliorate the position of the black community as poor whites' perception of black people improves.

Well said

 

[Relentless 757]

Why not disrupt a Republican rally? Unless that happened, then I'm just ignorant on it.

 

[KingK]

And this is the fundamental disconnect between white and black liberals. O'Malley's reforms are the types of policy that invariably lead to black people getting arrested for the smallest things and a police force that is taught to basically go into black neighborhoods and tear shit up. Bernie Sanders' belief that economic policy trumps everything else is why so many well-meaning liberal policies that address one aspect of life while completely ignoring race result in black people falling way behind everyone else. So sure, we may share the same stance on a lot of things but if you want to keep advocating for "colorblind" policy, all that does is ignore the elephant in the room that black people (and other minorities) have had to deal with for generations in this country. What good is increasing the minimum wage if the people hiring are throwing away job applications because someone's name is "too ethnic"? Why does it matter that the big banks are broken up if they're still giving unfair loans to non-white people? In Bernie's case, he supports a vast majority of the stuff that I support but I also have to live in a country where systemic racism is the norm and where simply changing policy is just putting a band-aid on the problem.



As someone on twitter said, it's great that he was marching during the civil rights movement but people want to know where he was this year when unarmed black people were getting killed by the police.

Not going to defend O'Malley, he's a piece of shit going by his record as mayor, but why in the fuck do people keep implying Bernie Sanders, of all people, ignores or denied systemic racism? Just look at the video on the first page. He was speaking out against the criminal justice system while the Clintons were expanding mass incarceration.

 

[jmood88]

I think he was referring the the David Chae study, which used google search analysis for the n-word for areas and compared the mortality rate. It was pretty "science-ish" but I don't know if the correlation is actually meaningful at all.

No, I was referring to the case studies I've had to read while studying for my Master in Public Health. I'll get some specific studies you can read once I get home.

Not going to defend O'Malley, he's a piece of shit going by his record as mayor, but why in the fuck do people keep implying Bernie Sanders, of all people, ignores or denied systemic racism? Just look at the video on the first page. He was speaking out against the criminal justice system while the Clintons were expanding mass incarceration.

Because all the rhetoric coming from his campaign has been downplaying addressing race specifically in favor of this "economic equality will solve the problem" thing.

 

[dabig2]

Oh my god, critique does not equal "fighting your own cause".

Bernie most likely IS part of the "cause", but he needs to make that a prominent vocal point and political point if he wants to truly differentiate himself from Hillary. Especially with this flub, and the reactions from his supporters.


"Hi. I'm a Presidential Candidate. I believe that #BlackLivesMatter and I have policies to address the tragic loss of life we've witnessed."

Again, that simple. Say some names of black men and namely black women who have suffered from state violence, roll out a plan. Even a prototype.

Indeed. Even the great Lincoln needed to get prodded and poked at every point by the so-called Radical Republicans. Sometimes a very stern reminder is needed when you believe the focus isn't there.

Ironically, this is what most people hope Bernie does to the eventual nominee, Hillary. Prod and poke her to progressivism on a myriad of issues at least if he won't win the nomination.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

Why not disrupt a Republican rally? Unless that happened, then I'm just ignorant on it.

Its far more beneficial to be a disruptive force at a rally for a liberal candidate that potentially can be made to come around to your way of thinking, then someone who has no interest whatsoever in seeing your point of view.

This is more about sending a message to candidates like Bernie Sanders in the future, when they actually are viable Presidential candidates. Like in 2040.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Indeed. Even the great Lincoln needed to get prodded and poked at every point by the so-called Radical Republicans. Sometimes a very stern reminder is needed when you believe the focus isn't there.

Ironically, this is what most people hope Bernie does to the eventual nominee, Hillary. Prod and poke her to progressivism on a myriad of issues at least if he won't win the nomination.

I remember the time Bernie crashed hillary's town hall meeting and yelled over her.

 

[dramatis]

To be fair we haven't had the kind of economic progress he's talking about so we can't really compare. Also, nothing can really "solve" racism other than educating the new generation to prevent bigotry from spreading, imo. You can minimize the avenues racists have for expressing their racism, but you can't make them not racist unless you fundamentally reeducate them somehow. It's an education issue which comes back to economic policy. Everyone needs access to education, and education should prevent people from having ignorant views.

Isn't that silly though? Aren't you just asking for the same thing that Republicans are asking, except in the opposite direction? That if the US arrives at this ideal location, all the problems will be solved. And then you rebuff any questions about the viability of that ideal by saying, "Well, we never had it yet, so we can't really compare"?

Right now you are trying to sell the idea that economic progressivism will solve racial inequality. You're trying to link economic progressivism to what it can do for racism. But you haven't rebuffed the obvious comparison I made, which is that even though women are half the population and men share space with them all the time, and that many, many of those men are well-educated, sexism is still quite prevalent. If more education couldn't solve this for females even amongst the wealthy, how do you expect more education to solve racism?

 

[Train of Midnight]

Because all the rhetoric coming from his campaign has been downplaying addressing race specifically in favor of this "economic equality will solve the problem" thing.

Nothing will "solve" racism because human beings are naturally kind of shitty. That's just life. But his policies would help the black community more than any other candidate by far, in a real and impactful way. I don't see how that's not worth celebrating, let alone protesting.

That's like shooting yourself in the foot because you don't walk fast enough.

 

[werks]

Hah, that got old in the other thread.

Bernie's team royally screwed up that post too. Enough that they had to edit it (check out that post now).

You don't put #SayHerName, and then add a one woman and multiple men. That hashtag was meant strictly to point out that black women were dealing with state violence too, and were getting nearly as much attention.


Only Bernie (and his team) is going to curb this. By listening, actually listening. And maybe diversifying the team too, because they clearly don't know how to converse in this specific space. But they are going to need to, because his supporters right now are torching a whole lot of good will from black voters and activists (many of who have a lot of younger black voters attention).

Hashtagish over actual policies. If #BlackLivesMatter is more worried about perception than actual change to institutional policies that have disenfranchised minorities than they will amount to nothing as an organization or movement.