Sanders is already there, substantively, unlike the rest of the pack. People really just want better PR from him?
Black Lives Matter disrupts Martin OMalley, Bernie Sanders town hall
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Sanders is already there, substantively, unlike the rest of the pack. People really just want better PR from him?
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
How about he just doesn't take what is seen as a crisis for black communities for granted, engage with with black communities and activists, and makes sure his agenda speaks to them.
Not just everyone "universally", but to them. Clearly, in platforms where they have access to.
I disagree. Bernie sanders has come up with policies and is trying to persuade people he has the best solution. #BlackLivesMatte are putting forward a critique that Bernie's policy platform is too focused on economics. For that critique to have any force, then they need to at least expound on the specifics on why his current policies are too weak and how they could be changed for the better. Instead we get complaints that he is not having the conversation correctly. Essentially that his messaging needs to be slicker and more targeted, not substantive disagreements on policy.
Link?
Train of Midnight
Banned
With respect to the people who genuinely want to help you.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
To use an old quote.
Bernie needs to make his stances against state violence and other major issues for black people super clear. Make himself accessible and inclusive.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Well that isn't very optimistic....
Omegasquash
Member
FWIW, I was there.
I had high hopes when the questions were asked and answers were given, but the second O'Malley shifted off the actual topic that Black Lives Matter, he lost some cred in my book.
I had high hopes when the questions were asked and answers were given, but the second O'Malley shifted off the actual topic that Black Lives Matter, he lost some cred in my book.
Nah, it's better for him to just stay the course and then wonder why he has pretty much no support outside the white college aged crowd. It seems that his supporters would rather repeat the Ron Paul cycle than actually try and tailor a message toward people outside that group.
Train of Midnight
Banned
Ok, so maybe instead of ostracizing people who want to help you over admittedly small details, maybe let that go in lieu of the bigger picture....
Or not and enjoy Donald fuck stick in the white house next year. -_-
Black people in American have been letting shit go for the bigger picture for 200+. And look what that go us...
It's always wait your turn, but our turn never comes.
Obama has done it multiple times throughout his presidency. Of course, he has what it takes to roll with the punches.
-bzzzzzt-
Typical response. Wait in line and "we'll get to you"? Those days are done. Get on side and make your case for the black vote, or gtfo.
And the conceit that Bernie Sanders is somehow the one keeping Donald Trump from reaching the White House is so laughable, it's delusional.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
OR, and I know this is a long shot.
Bernie needs to make his stances against state violence and other major issues for black people super clear. Make himself accessible and inclusive. Engage and converse. Listen and adapt to some critiques. Get people on his team with an ear for what's going on in black communities.
I know, super difficult. I mean, Obama has never done anything like that with multiple communities.
You realize that isn't the poster's opinion right? The character is actually based on him.
If getting security to escort them out is rolling with the punches, sure.
http://fusion.net/story/156428/trans-woman-interrupts-obama-at-white-house-lgbt-reception/
How has he not done this? Even if you don't think he has been messaging hard enough on this particular set of issues, all it takes is a little bit of research to see he is so far on your side that it makes him un-electable.
This is absolutely accurate. I would like to point out too that we are constantly told to forgive and forget, to wait for our issues to be dealt with... imagine if America tried to do that to the Jews? The Jews have suffered terribly and deserve justice, but haven't we?
He gave that person multiple opportunities to settle down and talk later, if you've actually watched the video.
On top of that, it is the first time in ages that he's had hecklers escorted out instead of asking them to let him finish before meeting them afterwards.
You'd actually have to research that, though.
Interesting choice of phrase.
Train of Midnight
Banned
His position has been beyond clear for weeks, years, decades. It's been a major point of his policies for a long time, and still today. So again, I know progress is slow, but when you throw stones at the people with the power and desire to help you, you're only hurting yourself and your cause.
I can't tell whether the Obama comment is sarcastic or not with your attitude, honestly.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Here's a hint, if you're going to talk to and engage black communities about their issues, you don't do it in Drake University in Des Monies, Iowa.
That's like the polar opposite of accessible and inclusive.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Occupy Wall Street actually had an effect on views on income inequality and has led to it being the major issue - however no actual policies have been passed on the fed level, whereas minimum wage bills have passed in multiple states. I don't think BLM will accomplish anything on the national scale. Criminal justice reform has been bubbling up as an issue for awhile thanks to lower crime rates and agreement amongst liberals and libertarians - whether anything is done on the fed level...we'll see.
State level wise we've seen many cities adopt cop body cam policies.
As long as we're being honest that no, Obama doesn't actually always roll with the punches. Politicuans don't like being ambushed by protesters. Obama is not above tossing people out.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
HIS RECORD IS NOT UNDER DISPUTE.
I think this has been said a million times in this thread. It's his lack of engagement and minority/community outreach, the lack of communication, hell, the unwillingness to engage is why he's in the whole. And his "universal" economic policies is a testament to his dissonance.
Train of Midnight
Banned
At this point I can't see any way he could make you happy.
Bernie doesn't cater to your demographic specifically, and I get why that's disenfranchising when they need help. But he's still actively pushing for your cause along with the multitude of other causes that need addressing. Sorry there are so many other problems in this country, I guess.
PhoenixDark
Banned
It's amazing that no matter how many times people point out the multiple racial issues that are a part of Sanders' platform it's ignored or brushed over. You can argue he hasn't engaged black activists, that's fair and a legitimate concern; sure right now the primary is focused on lily white Iowa/NH but it's still fair. But to argue he has little or nothing to say about race is bullshit, and has been shot down multiple times in this very thread.
No serious arguments are being made here about black people "needing" to "bow" to Sanders. But to pretend like he is ignoring or has ignored black/Hispanic issues is not true. He has the best record on civil rights, civil liberties, and criminal justice reform. By far. And his platform for president includes all those things.
So he just needs to repeat the same message at a place of your approval? From what i've seen Bernie is very open to engagement with the people who show up to his appearances.
I'm not sure what your implication is, but I simply meant that his policy solutions for these problems are too far to the left for the fairly conservative general electorate.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Ok then, we're in agreement. Because the rest? I'm not arguing it, your talking to someone's argument, but not mine.
Omegasquash
Member
That's...not cool. I can't think of anything more pressing than systematic racial oppression that takes the lives of black men and women with relative impunity.
No one is saying that this is the only issue, or that our next president should do just this one thing. What's being said is that there ought to be stated plans for how to protect our citizens from wrongful death (I think murder, but hey that's just me) inflicted by the very system that's supposed to stop things like, well, wrongful death (murder). It's damn important.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
My approval? How about engaging with the people that would directly be affected by his racial equality policies, instead of just his base? As in, not Drake University? And then actively converse with them, improving his message and stance when need be.
That's been my argument the whole time. Failing that got him in this hole in the first place, and his supporters seem to actively want him buried in it.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Honestly I think this applies to all his issues, not just race. We're talking about him seriously but ultimately Sanders is a fringe candidate (like Ron Paul). He's not going to win a primary outside of Vermont regardless of whether his message gets out or not.
Which is why I think protesting Sanders and O'Malley who don't actually have a shot at being president and were never going to get the black vote in the first place is a little misguided.
I don't think Bernie has avoided engaging with black activists and he would be happy to have that type of conversation if approached. He is in the middle of focusing on Iowa and New Hampshire because of the way the democratic primary is set up.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
“Black lives matter, white lives matter, all lives matter.” — O'Malley
The activists wanted to center the black experience and focus on the state of emergency. This is like the polar opposite of what to say at that point. He got rightfully booed, and has already openly acknowledged that.
Bernie, instead of expressing solidarity with the protesters, he talked about his pet issue—economics. He wasn’t “in the room,” and didn’t alter his pitch based on what was happening. If he had showed some empathy, which he has in the past (and even recently in other speeches), he wouldn't have gotten the response he did.
Both guys earned it that night. You adapt to the room you're in. And as I keep saying, Bernie's supporters are making it worse instead of just telling Bernie to make it more of a focal point.
Train of Midnight
Banned
Again, he has not been silent on this topic. Back in May he talked about it during the Baltimore crisis, addressing the issue of police brutality, the undefendable wrongness that's been committed on black communities nationwide. But he's not wrong when he says that these changes need to come from state and local levels, basically admitting it's not the responsibility of the presidency. I understand if that seems insensitive, but given the context of his record, and the myriad of other sweeping policies that will help these communities in other ways, I don't see how that's worthy of protesting. The black communities have other problems than police brutality that need addressing, and these problems are better solved at a higher level.
You have a new argument every time you hit reply, abandoning the old one once it no longer suits you.
Omalley fucked up. I don't know much about him and I don't think I'll need to. Bernie was shouted down before he was even able to commit a proper response.
I've not seen Obama handle a crowd this dedicated to shouting over him, with the moderator seemingly on their side providing cover. Is there an example of that?
Not to say Sanders couldn't have handled it better, but it seems like the cards were stacked a bit more against Sanders than anything I've personally seen Obama have to handle. Many times when he's had to address protesters he's often at least had a sizable element of the crowd on his side, booing them back. And he uses that to his advantage.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think they're a bit more organized than that. I know the names of the three national founders and leaders. I know the names of the leaders in the big cities around me.
http://blacklivesmatter.com/demands
They want police reform and accountability, and I can see all of these goals being met if America wanted them to be met.
Omegasquash
Member
He hasn't been silent on the issue, no. But can you understand how him not being able to connect, in the moment, with protesters and address their issues directly comes off as disconnected?
Train of Midnight
Banned
But that's little picture minutia. You're missing the forest for the trees.
It's a little funny how out of date their demands are: The DoJ concluded there wasn't enough evidence to charge Darren Wilson back in March. And Eric Holder hasn't been Attorney General since April.
A well-oiled political machine this is not.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
This is the updated one
http://blacklivesmatter.com/state-of-the-black-union/
But I doubt you care anyway.
Considering if Sanders was elected he would, in fact, "get to [them]", I'm still not seeing the issue to protest here.
It's become incredibly clear people don't actually know anything about Sanders' record. Yes, that's a failure of his campaign. I mean, people are well within their rights as a voter to say "he's not courting me, so I'm not interested in voting for him." That doesn't make them any less of a fool for not supporting the candidates who will do the most for your causes, irrespective of their messaging. Otherwise you are saying you care more about optics and style than actual substance and meaningful action.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
How Bernie Sanders and Martin OMalley Botched #BlackLivesMatter
What O'Malley could have done.
What Bernie Could have done
What O'Malley could have done.
What Bernie Could have done
Train of Midnight
Banned
Lol, the trump line was meant to be a joke, but literally any of the red candidates will work for you just as hard as the trumpster, so it's really just a placeholder for a republican president.
Exactly.
Omegasquash
Member
It's really not like that at all to the protesters and those that agree. I know what Sanders has said...we've heard how great he was/is for Burlington and VT. And the US as a senator, for the most part. Personally I think that the changes he proposes will have an impact. But that's not what needs to be said or heard.
When faced, in the immediate here and now, with very fired up protesters that, like it or not, have taken the moment with a cause that he stands with and for tragedies that he stands against, he should come off as actually caring.
What happened in Phoenix was not at all like that. He came off as having an agenda of what he wanted to say.
Love how the goal posts in this thread have gradually moved from "Bernie doesn't care about racial issues!" to "Bernie doesn't understand racial issues/thinks economics will solve racism!" to finally "Bernie needs to make his stances more known and better engage the community."
I actually agree that his campaign needs to work on outreach/engagement to broader communities and getting the message out about his platform on these issues.
I actually agree that his campaign needs to work on outreach/engagement to broader communities and getting the message out about his platform on these issues.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I believe BLM mostly wants police to stop killing black people.
How does preventing the candidates from speaking help them get closer to that goal? I understand the point of a protest is to gain attention, but then where did that attention go? Did they further a goal here? Could that same goal not have been achieved while still allowing the candidates to speak?
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