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[Team Alucard]

Love how the goal posts in this thread have gradually moved from "Bernie doesn't care about racial issues!" to "Bernie doesn't understand racial issues/thinks economics will solve racism!" to finally "Bernie needs to make his stances more known and better engage the community."

People won't be satisfied until he's campaigning exclusively on police brutality. Which is never going to happen.

 

[Infinite]

Love how the goal posts in this thread have gradually moved from "Bernie doesn't care about racial issues!" to "Bernie doesn't understand racial issues/thinks economics will solve racism!" to finally "Bernie needs to make his stances more known and better engage the community."

I actually agree that his campaign needs to work on outreach/engagement to broader communities and getting the message out about his platform on these issues.

That's a strawman. No one in this thread has made that argument. I dare you to find a post that does.

 

[Valhelm]

How does preventing the candidates from speaking help them get closer to that goal? I understand the point of a protest is to gain attention, but then where did that attention go? Did they further a goal here? Could that same goal not have been achieved while still allowing the candidates to speak?

The goal is to get Bernie Sanders to speak more publicly about black issues. He does, certainly more than any GOP candidate or even Hillary Clinton, but people tend to associate his politics with economics alone.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This is the updated one

http://blacklivesmatter.com/state-of-the-black-union/


But I doubt you care anyway.

Interesting that the first bullet point relates to income inequality.

In terms of the demand list...demands are not policy. I would hope that a politician would talk about policy and process, because that's how you get things done. I'm going to venture out and say there will be no end to racism or discrimination in this country, and while policies exist to combat some of that they need to be enforced more. But then again how does one create a policy solution to stop an employer from calling Jim over Jamal. It's not possible.

Going through them though...there are twelve demands on the list. Sanders' platform addresses seven of them. About a third of the list revolves around economic inequality.

 

[Train of Midnight]

Going through them though...there are twelve demands on the list. Sanders' platform addresses seven of them. About a third of the list revolves around economic inequality.

And the rest of the list won't be addressed by presidential policy -_-

 

[FiggyCal]

Interesting that the first bullet point relates to income inequality.

In terms of the demand list...demands are not policy. I would hope that a politician would talk about policy and process, because that's how you get things done. I'm going to venture out and say there will be no end to racism or discrimination in this country, and while policies exist to combat some of that they need to be enforced more. But then again how does one create a policy solution to stop an employer from calling Jim over Jamal. It's not possible.

Going through them though...there are twelve demands on the list. Sanders' platform addresses seven of them. About a third of the list revolves around economic inequality.

And as for the living wage demand. As far as I can tell, Bernie is the only candidate to have explicitly come out in favor of a 15 dollar minimum wage.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Interesting that the first bullet point relates to income inequality.

In terms of the demand list...demands are not policy. I would hope that a politician would talk about policy and process, because that's how you get things done. I'm going to venture out and say there will be no end to racism or discrimination in this country, and while policies exist to combat some of that they need to be enforced more. But then again how does one create a policy solution to stop an employer from calling Jim over Jamal. It's not possible.

Going through them though...there are twelve demands on the list. Sanders' platform addresses seven of them. About a third of the list revolves around economic inequality.

You do it by making policies that help ensure that Jamal's dad isn't in jail or dead from petty crime or non-violent drug offenses. You do it by making sure the area he lives in isn't an irredeemable shithole where his best option for making money is selling drugs. You do it by making sure that the schools Jamal attends don't have 30 kids in a classroom and a teacher who isn't paid even remotely enough to put up with that environment.

There's no *direct* way to stop an employer from picking Jim over Jamal, sure. But there's plenty of ways to help. And if nothing else, a change that results in Jamal not being doomed for life if and when he does get in trouble with the law would go a long way. For so many, you fuck up, and then the world treats you like dirt and surprise surprise, you end up right back where you started.

 

[Fuchsdh]

You do it by making policies that help ensure that Jamal's dad isn't in jail or dead from petty crime or non-violent drug offenses. You do it by making sure the area he lives in isn't an irredeemable shithole where his best option for making money is selling drugs. You do it by making sure that the schools Jamal attends don't have 30 kids in a classroom and a teacher who isn't paid even remotely enough to put up with that environment.

There's no *direct* way to stop an employer from picking Jim over Jamal, sure. But there's plenty of ways to help. And if nothing else, a change that results in Jamal not being doomed for life if and when he does get in trouble with the law would go a long way. For so many, you fuck up, and then the world treats you like dirt and surprise surprise, you end up right back where you started.

I think he's referring to discrimination and unconscious bias in hiring decisions, not what you're talking about.

To that point, at least at the federal employment level, it seems feasible to me that you essentially anonymize all personal details on an application until it comes to actual interviews. While there's no way to remove possible human bias overall, reducing the cues that lead people to consciously or unconsciously toss resumes for reasons not related to merit seems like a decent option. So to your example no one would know Jim or Jamal, they'd only have candidate A and B until the time when it came to actually have a face-to-face meeting.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Interesting that the first bullet point relates to income inequality.

In terms of the demand list...demands are not policy. I would hope that a politician would talk about policy and process, because that's how you get things done.

Not their jobs, they aren't politicians. Politicians are meant to look at these demands, forge policies that help rectify them, and convince the people who need it most that they will work.

Bernie needs to do part three. It may even further improve part two.

I'm going to venture out and say there will be no end to racism or discrimination in this country, and while policies exist to combat some of that they need to be enforced more. But then again how does one create a policy solution to stop an employer from calling Jim over Jamal. It's not possible.

That's a stupidly pessimistic venture on the same level of "boys will be boys", and many can't afford to believe that. Stakes are too high.

Going through them though...there are twelve demands on the list. Sanders' platform addresses seven of them. About a third of the list revolves around economic inequality.

How many has he addressed directly to the black community, centered it towards them, to them?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Nah, it's better for him to just stay the course and then wonder why he has pretty much no support outside the white college aged crowd. It seems that his supporters would rather repeat the Ron Paul cycle than actually try and tailor a message toward people outside that group.

Are you literally trying to say that only white college kids care about the national debt, over-supporting the Israeli state, and NSA among other similar things? That sounds a bit conceited imho. There is crossover and overlap among those who support that, #blacklivesmatter, lgbt rights etc.

Whether Bernie can coalese that in a way that doesn't come off as pandering is another topic entirely, but I get rather tired of this strict, naunced "that's for them, this is our thing" underbelly talk that passes around in progressive circles these days.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think he's referring to discrimination and unconscious bias in hiring decisions, not what you're talking about.

To that point, at least at the federal employment level, it seems feasible to me that you essentially anonymize all personal details on an application until it comes to actual interviews. While there's no way to remove possible human bias overall, reducing the cues that lead people to consciously or unconsciously toss resumes for reasons not related to merit seems like a decent option. So to your example no one would know Jim or Jamal, they'd only have candidate A and B until the time when it came to actually have a face-to-face meeting.

Exactly. Given identical resumes, more than a few employers might gravitate might to a Jim than Jamal. It has nothing to do with whether their dad is in jail or not, it's about the name and racial connotation.

In short, racism isn't going to be solved anytime soon and there are limits to what policies can accomplish. The demand list includes some areas where progress can at least be made, though. Obama, Sanders, and Hillary have pushed a "free" community college program, for instance, which addresses the demand about education/training. Sanders supporters a livable wage, going so far as to demand $15, which Hillary (and myself personally) don't support; that's also on the demand list. Sanders and Hillary support an end to voter disenfranchisement practices and a renewal of the VRA, which is on the list. etc

 

[KingK]

That's a strawman. No one in this thread has made that argument. I dare you to find a post that does.

Ok sure

From the first page:

It's not simply a matter of having to go out and march, it's talking about why it's continuing to be a problem. It takes no massive effort for him to put out a statement.



What I'm saying is that marching in the 60's doesn't shield him from criticism for not speaking about racial issues in 2015.

When the poster was then confronted about the bullshit of Bernie "not speaking about racial issues in 2015":

Those are great and I wish he did more of that instead of getting defensive when asked about why he hasn't done more to address race.



What does Hillary have to do with anything?




I didn't mean that he never speaks on racial issues (there was supposed to be "enough" after "issues") but the fact is, race and racism is not his focus. He thinks that changing economic policy will be enough and it has never been enough, which is why there are black voters who aren't embracing him with open arms.

Then we get that "He thinks economic policy is all that matters/all that's needed to solve racism," talking point (which it seems is still popping up in here), which is stupid for a couple reasons. First, I challenge anyone to point me in the direction of where Bernie ever said that economics is the only important issue or that economic justice will somehow solve racism. In fact, many of the policies he supports, such as body cams, police reform, sentencing reform, (not to mention unrelated topics like climate change) etc. aren't even economic policies. Second, it's stupid to pretend as if economic inequality is not heavily related to racial inequality.

And then on the last page we get this argument:

OR, and I know this is a long shot.

Bernie needs to make his stances against state violence and other major issues for black people super clear. Make himself accessible and inclusive. Engage and converse. Listen and adapt to some critiques. Get people on his team with an ear for what's going on in black communities.

I know, super difficult. I mean, Obama has never done anything like that with multiple communities.

which is a fair criticism that I fully agree with.

Maybe others will see it differently, but to me it seems the goalposts have been constantly moving in this thread.

 

[Draft]

I don't think either one of them could have said anything to quiet that crowd.

 

[Usobuko]

I find these two posts interesting as an outsider to US politics and social equality.

And this is the fundamental disconnect between white and black liberals. O'Malley's reforms are the types of policy that invariably lead to black people getting arrested for the smallest things and a police force that is taught to basically go into black neighborhoods and tear shit up. Bernie Sanders' belief that economic policy trumps everything else is why so many well-meaning liberal policies that address one aspect of life while completely ignoring race result in black people falling way behind everyone else. So sure, we may share the same stance on a lot of things but if you want to keep advocating for "colorblind" policy, all that does is ignore the elephant in the room that black people (and other minorities) have had to deal with for generations in this country. What good is increasing the minimum wage if the people hiring are throwing away job applications because someone's name is "too ethnic"? Why does it matter that the big banks are broken up if they're still giving unfair loans to non-white people? In Bernie's case, he supports a vast majority of the stuff that I support but I also have to live in a country where systemic racism is the norm and where simply changing policy is just putting a band-aid on the problem..

No this is the disconnect between idiots and people who aren't. Protesting someone that long advocated against police brutality, supported affirmative action and incentivized social policies for the bottom mean you don't understand shit about the real world and you just care about a particular topic while being myopic to all the things that are around it.

And for your information, a politician can't do much about people trashing resumees because of "ethnic" names, but he can ensure that the playing field is as even as possible with other measures. Racism is a matter of public perception first, economics second (which of course feedback in the first) and politics last. Economics and politics however can ensure that the effect of racists/prejudice on the society is diminished as much as possible, and as time passes, and public perception change, those effects will eventually disappear like they did for many other "minorities".

But let's throw the opportunity away because "he don't understand what it mean to be a black liberal". Fuck off with that shit. With any other candidate you're getting more money for the richs and you're gonna be happy because Sanders was just "another bourgeois old white man that don't understand us blacks, thanks god we elected corporate puppet n°1564".

The biggest enemy of black people in america is american's warped perception of what a "society" should be, with everyone for himself. A vision of society that, what a coincidence i'd say, serve only to preserve the status quo and keep the richs aboves the others, and black people on the very bottom because bootstraps and we can't afford dirty socialism in the USA.

To me, the blacks in the US seems to be the malays in my country. Statistically less educated on average, leans towards lower income relatively and has a higher tendency to wed early and have more children than other races. The ethnic demographic of my country, Singapore, is 74% chinese, 13 % malay, 9 % Indians and 3.3% others. There's no police brutality to speak of and we are among the lowest crime rates internationally. No surprise coming from a country with a reputation of nanny state where even chewing gum is being banned here. We are also doing well economically, among the highest gdp/gnp per capita in the world. I don't know if it's because since young we are exposed to this prominent racial harmony 'propaganda' in school and on media ( consequences of several riots happened between chinese and malay in 1960s ), the malays don't seem to experience the kind of institutionalized racism in US, although there might be still certain biased perceptions against them that still exist, like being lazy.

This is probably why the context in both posts are reasonable to me if I try to understand from their perspective. If I am black, I would want to treat equally even if Bernie is one to take country forward with his economic policies. Especially more so on life and death matter with police brutality for example. At the same time, perception play a role. You have to start early, wasn't there a statistic recently that showed the segregation of black and white kids? Something like at the age of 6, X% of blacks think whites are their friend vice versa and that percentage gets drastically lower when they hit 13. I don't know what can be done but just an example in my country, there's a mandatory, once in a year, racial harmony celebration where kids are encouraged to dress up in their traditional costume or costume of other races. It looks like this.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Not their jobs, they aren't politicians. Politicians are meant to look at these demands, forge policies that help rectify them, and convince the people who need it most that they will work.

Bernie needs to do part three. It may even further improve part two.

Agreed.

That's a stupidly pessimistic venture on the same level of "boys will be boys", and many can't afford to believe that. Stakes are too high.

It's the reality of the situation whether you like it or not. Nor is it analogous to "boys will be boys," which is used as an excuse for bad behavior and a lack of reprimands. Whereas this is an acknowledgement that this country is built on white supremacy, ingrained into nearly every structural aspect of society. Progress can be made in a variety of areas but the structural hurdles aren't going anywhere. Ta-Nehisi Coates has made this point more articulately than I can. I'm not in the business of telling people what they want to hear.

How many has he addressed directly to the black community, centered it towards them, to them?

Goal posts moving now.

A living wage benefits society as a whole. Increased/less expensive access to higher education benefits society as a whole. The same applies to criminal justice reform. While I agree Sanders should take his message to black people (and I imagine he will as the primary calender moves past lily white states and comes to South Carolina), I don't believe he should or has to center anything for black voters. All the policies listed benefit black people alongside other races. What exactly needs to be centered, here?

 

[kirblar]

Minimum wage doesn't matter if you can't get a job in the first place.

 

[Train of Midnight]

So let's address these demands from BLM as they relate to Bernie and this rally.

• We demand an end to all forms of discrimination and the full recognition of our human rights. Ok, so does everyone on the right side of history. But unless you want to outlaw free speech, some people will always be terrible people. Not govt's place.
• We demand an immediate end to police brutality and the murder of Black people and all oppressed people. Yes, no arguments there. Bernie's on record, on message supporting that.
• We demand full, living wage employment for our people. 15 /hr
• We demand decent housing fit for the shelter of human beings and an end to gentrification. Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. [1]
• We demand an end to the school to prison pipeline & quality education for all. Pushing for free college tuition, in addition to living wage jobs, in addition to prison reform
• We demand freedom from mass incarceration and an end to the prison industrial complex. This has been a large talking point of his agenda, albeit for moral and economic reasons, not race specifically.
• We demand a racial justice agenda from the White House that is inclusive of our shared fate as Black men, women, trans and gender-nonconforming people. Not My Brother’s Keeper, but Our Children’s Keeper. That's a great push, given Bernie's record he would absolutely support it.
• We demand access to affordable healthy food for our neighborhoods. Local issue
• We demand an aggressive attack against all laws, policies, and entities that disenfranchise any community from expressing themselves at the ballot. Bernie has repeatedly voted against legislation pushing voter restrictions. [2]
• We demand a public education system that teaches the rich history of Black people and celebrates the contributions we have made to this country and the world. There's a lot of shortcomings in our education system. Admittedly this is pretty low on the list of priorities.
• We demand the release of all U.S. political prisoners. Don't really know enough to comment on this one.
• We demand an end to the military industrial complex that incentivizes private corporations to profit off of the death and destruction of Black and Brown communities across the globe. Pro gun control, anti war. You don't get more fuzzy and peaceful than Bernie. [3]

 

[Kitschkraft]

Good. The dems have been relatively weak on these issues. Honestly, we give them 90 percent of our vote, so they should be able to manage some of the anger.

This response from people on the left is pretty disgusting to me. One of the reasons why I may decide to just stay home. I'm tired of this shit.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

It's the reality of the situation whether you like it or not. Nor is it analogous to "boys will be boys," which is used as an excuse for bad behavior and a lack of reprimands. Whereas this is an acknowledgement that this country is built on white supremacy, ingrained into nearly every structural aspect of society. Progress can be made in a variety of areas but the structural hurdles aren't going anywhere. Ta-Nehisi Coates has made this point more articulately than I can. I'm not in the business of telling people what they want to hear.

It is an excuse for bad behavior and a lack of accountability. That's how white supremacy gained power in the first place.

I just don't agree that it can't be toppled. And I disagree with Ta-Nehisi on that too.

Goal posts moving now.

I've had the same goal post. Universal policies and not engaging black communities is a no go. Not this time. He needs to earn these damn votes or lose.

While I agree Sanders should take his message to black people (and I imagine he will as the primary calender moves past lily white states and comes to South Carolina), I don't believe he should or has to center anything for black voters. All the policies listed benefit black people alongside other races. What exactly needs to be centered, here?

You don't feel it needs to be centered towards black voters at any point in his campaign? Ok.

I don't think it'll work out for him, and frankly, this is exactly how you disenfranchise the black vote, but ok.

 

[Train of Midnight]

I've had the same goal post. Universal policies and not engaging black communities is a no go. Not this time. He needs to earn these damn votes or lose.

If you're working against him, it's you, your cause, and your communities that have the most to lose...

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

If you're working against him, it's you, your cause, and your communities that have the most to lose...

Who's working against him?

Because right now, I'd say the supporters that have been silencing and gaslighting black people all over social media are working against him.

Not the people asking that he do more.

 

[nynt9]

It is an excuse for bad behavior and a lack of accountability. That's how white supremacy gained power in the first place.

I just don't agree that it can't be toppled. And I disagree with Ta-Nehisi on that too.




I've had the same goal post. Universal policies and not engaging black communities is a no go. Not this time. He needs to earn these damn votes or lose.



You don't feel it needs to be centered towards black voters at any point in his campaign? Ok.

I don't think it'll work out for him, and frankly, this is exactly how you disenfranchise the black vote, but ok.

So let's say he loses. Which I think he will, despite supporting his policies. Is it better for the black community if he loses? Does being vindictive towards him solve anything? I understand that it's not good enough to be the better candidate and he actively needs to address these issues. But realistically -not optimistically- speaking, out of all candidates in the election, isn't Sanders the best one, even for the black community? Let's say he fails to directly address the community. What do you stand to gain by his losing?

In an ideal world he would reach to the black community and win. But if he doesn't do that, should he not win? From what I can tell it's still in the black community's best interest to vote for him (as opposed to voting for anyone else or abstaining and thus helping someone worse?)

We get that you want him to reach to your community specifically. But can you at least admit he deserves some credit for the rest of his work, at least more so than other candidates?

 

[Train of Midnight]

Who's working against him?

Because right now, I'd say the supporters that have been silencing and gaslighting black people all over social media are working against him right now.

Not the people asking that he do more.

You, right here, right now. The mental gymnastics you're putting yourself through to be this upset with his policies. You've made like a dozen requests that he needs to do this, or he doesn't reach far enough on this issue. Then you're presented with the exact thing you're looking for and yeah, you move the goal posts.

That's actively working against him in what little way you can.

 

[gogosox82]

Good. The dems have been relatively weak on these issues. Honestly, we give them 90 percent of our vote, so they should be able to manage some of the anger.

This response from people on the left is pretty disgusting to me. One of the reasons why I may decide to just stay home. I'm tired of this shit.

Get involved in your local community. Start by going to local town hall meetings or school district meetings. Call your local or state rep and talk to them about your issues. That will make the most impact and way more that voting in a national election. You can do way more to influence the way things work than just voting.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

So let's say he loses. Which I think he will, despite supporting his policies. Is it better for the black community if he loses? Does being vindictive towards him solve anything? I understand that it's not good enough to be the better candidate and he actively needs to address these issues. But realistically -not optimistically- speaking, out of all candidates in the election, isn't Sanders the best one, even for the black community? Let's say he fails to directly address the community. What do you stand to gain by his losing?

I'm not even going to answer any of this, because it comes from the basis of me being "vindictive". I'm not.

He chose to get flustered. Chose not to reach out. Chose to keep black folk at a distance. It's on Bernie to fix that. If he does, he'll get plenty of votes. If not, that's on him.

In an ideal world he would reach to the black community and win. But if he doesn't do that, should he not win? From what I can tell it's still in the black community's best interest to vote for him (as opposed to voting for anyone else or abstaining and thus helping someone worse?)

He gets the results he earns. If he's the best interest, he should tell black folks why. Because he's not an auto vote.

We get that you want him to reach to your community specifically. But can you at least admit he deserves some credit for the rest of his work, at least more so than other candidates?

Yay, cookies for him. He still needs to do more. The hole was built by him, he should be the one to pull himself out of it.

 

[Dyson Industries]

If you're working against him, it's you, your cause, and your communities that have the most to lose...

It seems like the African-American community is actually holding him to a specific standard, a litmus test that all candidates are going to face come 2016. If this guy can't cut it now in your primaries season, what is he doing in the race to begin with? I don't blame the community for checking his bonafides now, considering the long and storied history of so-called liberal candidates taking the African-American vote for granted - or worse, ignoring those issues once they're in office. I have to say that his fans certainly aren't making it any easier for him. Hearing these supporters tell actual black people that they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to racial issues in their country and should just shut up and be happy he's there...white people, stop embarrassing me.

 

[Indicate]

Good. The dems have been relatively weak on these issues. Honestly, we give them 90 percent of our vote, so they should be able to manage some of the anger.

This response from people on the left is pretty disgusting to me. One of the reasons why I may decide to just stay home. I'm tired of this shit.

Not everyone thinks this way. There are lots of Bernie supporters that are willing to listen and solve these issues. Take for example /r/SandersForPresident

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

 

[PhoenixDark]

It is an excuse for bad behavior and a lack of accountability. That's how white supremacy gained power in the first place.

I just don't agree that it can't be toppled. And I disagree with Ta-Nehisi on that too.

It's not an excuse; no one is shrugging and saying "welp, it is what it is." It's an honest accounting of the magnitude of the problem. This country was built on racism and will continue to perpetuate it with no end in sight. We can chip away at certain edges/make progress but the mountain won't be toppled.

I've had the same goal post. Universal policies and not engaging black communities is a no go. Not this time. He needs to earn these damn votes or lose.

You don't feel it needs to be centered towards black voters at any point in his campaign? Ok.

I don't think it'll work out for him, and frankly, this is exactly how you disenfranchise the black vote, but ok.

He's going to lose regardless.

As I said yesterday, a very good argument can be made against "rising tides raise all boats" views, especially when it comes to liberal policy throughout the years. Institutional racism complicates progress and holds back blacks as others make progress. That being said there is no rising tide/boats problem with criminal justice reform, for instance. The Obama administration's reduction of crack/cocaine sentencing disparities benefits black people, without asterisk. Body cams benefit black people. Universal pre-k helps black people. Community college access helps black people.

My point about centering is that I don't believe black people need to be the focal point of all of these policies. Criminal justice reform? Sure. But many of the rest benefit everyone, and ultimately that's a better way to campaign. This is a separate argument from whether Sanders should approach the black community - he should. Politicians sell their wares based on who is in the room. When he's in South Carolina talking to black people he'll obviously approach it from their perspective. But the vast majority of these issues are broad, and I think his approach will reflect that overall instead of focusing on one racial group.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Not everyone thinks this way. There are lots of Bernie supporters that are willing to listen and solve these issues. Take for example /r/SandersForPresident

This subreddit has handled the situation pretty dang well.

 

[nynt9]

Not everyone thinks this way. There are lots of Bernie supporters that are willing to listen and solve these issues. Take for example /r/SandersForPresident

From there:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor.../make_racial_justice_part_of_bernie_sanderss/

This is good. Hope it gets traction.

 

[Train of Midnight]

It seems like the African-American community is actually holding him to a specific standard, a litmus test that all candidates are going to face come 2016. If this guy can't cut it now in your primaries season, what is he doing in the race to begin with? I don't blame the community for checking his bonafides now, considering the long and storied history of so-called liberal candidates taking the African-American vote for granted - or worse, ignoring those issues once they're in office.

That's the whole crux of this situation is that they haven't checked shit. They want the candidates to go home and do their homework when they haven't done their homework on the candidates.

I have to say that his fans certainly aren't making it any easier for him. Hearing these supporters tell actual black people that they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to racial issues in their country and should just shut up and be happy he's there...white people, stop embarrassing me.

Yet that doesn't mean we (the white people, apparently) are wrong. These protesters are demanding changes that either A) he already supports or B) aren't going to change at the executive level. So then you're just making noise for the sake of having your voice heard. Which isn't a bad thing, but there's a time and a place

[edit] I know, I know. dont tell us to wait in line, but really, go protest someone who doesn't already support you.

 

[Valhelm]

But Bernie Sanders is listening. If anything, his problem is that his social positions aren't being promoted by Sanders followers as much as his economic positions.

 

[Big Baybee]

But Bernie Sanders is listening. If anything, his problem is that his social positions aren't being promoted by Sanders followers as much as his economic positions.

Elon is mostly directing that to Sanders Supporters.

 

[Train of Midnight]

From there:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor.../make_racial_justice_part_of_bernie_sanderss/

This is good. Hope it gets traction.

See, that's awesome. Exactly the tone BLM protest should have had. Although only asking for 500 signatures is kinda low-balling it, don't you think?

 

[Indicate]

This subreddit has handled the situation pretty dang well.

From there:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForP...rnie_sanderss/

This is good. Hope it gets traction.

There is also this. https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor...n_james_white_statement_about_this_subreddit/ They are willing to interact and are genuinely concerned with helping african americans about the problems they face on a daily basis. I encourage those here to engage with them. This sub has a larger representation of Bernie supporters than twitter or any other site.

 

[Dyson Industries]

Yet that doesn't mean we (the white people, apparently) are wrong. These protesters are demanding changes that either A) he already supports or B) aren't going to change at the executive level. So then you're just making noise for the sake of having your voice heard.

I can't walk up to a black person and tell them that expressing their anger at these real issues is "making noise for the sake of having your voice heard". Who says that? Have you not been paying attention to what's going on in your country - apologies if you're not American, btw - as of late? That's arrogant and it's shameful, and I can't co-sign that at all.

From there:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor.../make_racial_justice_part_of_bernie_sanderss/

This is good. Hope it gets traction.

Thank you for the link. I'm heading there now for a bit before bed.

 

[Chariot]

See, that's awesome. Exactly the tone BLM protest should have had. Although only asking for 500 signatures is kinda low-balling it, don't you think?

Onlinepetitions have no limit, they raise the number of "needed" signatures as they beat the numbers. This is to motivate people. "Only 50 votes until we beat X, we can do it!"
As you see, the "needed" signatures are at 600, now that they beat the 500. So don't worry about that.

 

[exmachina64]

Love how the goal posts in this thread have gradually moved from "Bernie doesn't care about racial issues!" to "Bernie doesn't understand racial issues/thinks economics will solve racism!" to finally "Bernie needs to make his stances more known and better engage the community."

I actually agree that his campaign needs to work on outreach/engagement to broader communities and getting the message out about his platform on these issues.

*gasp*

Different people have different goals! You're seeing multiple conversations take place where people express themselves and their opinions on what constitutes Bernie engaging the black community in the proper way. Because there's no monolithic faction of people who are participating in this discussion, you're seeing multiple demands or "goals."

Try to remember that there are other liberals/progressives in this thread that aren't in Bernie's camp. If you want him to win the primaries and general election, you're going to need more patience while you evangelize liberals, progressives, independents and moderates.

 

[Train of Midnight]

I can't walk up to a black person and tell them that expressing their anger at these real issues is "making noise for the sake of having your voice heard". Who says that? Have you not been paying attention to what's going on in your country - apologies if you're not American, btw - as of late? That's arrogant and it's shameful, and I can't co-sign that at all.

No, no. I'm american, and the not so recent trend of police brutality, especially towards minority communities is terrifying and indefensible. But in this thread I'm just talking about this specific group, at this specific rally, and I stand by what I've said.

Would I walk up to a person and tell them to their face I think they're fucking up? No of course not, but since we're on a dialogue based forum, in a thread specifically about this topic, I have some relevant thoughts on the subject.

 

[Dyson Industries]

That Reddit link is full of people who are entirely too reasonable.

 

[Vilix]

What is the "right" way to protest?

Only if your protesting anything Republican.

 

[jay]

It's fascinating to see the debate about economic policy's importance. It seems like both more moderate liberals and very far left liberals are arguing everything flows from economics with some people between them saying racism needs to be addressed separately and/or first.

If I had to guess, the far left thinks economics is key to everything because they're socialists, communists, anarchists, etc. and don't believe racism can end as long as class exists, and the moderate liberals want it to be key to everything because it's easier than also figuring out ways to fight institutionalized racism.

 

[Dude Abides]

This tempest in a teapot is getting a bit silly. Bernie Sanders was never going to earn a significant portion of the black vote in the primaries.

 

[nynt9]

It's fascinating to see the debate about economic policy's importance. It seems like both more moderate liberals and very far left liberals are arguing everything flows from economics with some people between them saying racism needs to be addressed separately and/or first.

If I had to guess, the far left thinks economics is key to everything because they're socialists, communists, anarchists, etc. and don't believe racism can end as long as class exists, and the moderate liberals want it to be key to everything because it's easier than also figuring out ways to fight institutionalized racism.

What about the very people in this thread who are saying it's completely separate from racism as an issue?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

This is tempest in a teapot is getting a silly. Bernie Sanders was never going to earn a significant portion of the black vote in the primaries.

He could have, but instead he decided to stay secluded in his castle and dig himself a hole.

 

[Infinite]

He could have, but instead he decided to stay secluded in his castle and dig himself a hole.

To be fair he seems to be listening now.

 

[Dude Abides]

He could have, but instead he decided to stay secluded in his castle and dig himself a hole.

No he couldn't have. Grumpy old white gun-loving atheist socialist from Vermont would have been lucky to get 5%.

 

[pgtl_10]

I found this article that says a lot about Bernie Sanders "leftist" credentials:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bernie-out-of-the-closet-sanders-longstanding-deal-with-the-democrats/

No thanks.

 

[nynt9]

I found this article that says a lot about Bernie Sanders "leftist" credentials:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bernie-out-of-the-closet-sanders-longstanding-deal-with-the-democrats/

No thanks.

what