Dating-Age |OT5| Halp me pls. In the bathroom.

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I think it's a bit strange to ask around about someone you want to ask out. I mean, if I had interest, I'd just do it. You could learn about them if they say yes. Having to flag someone down's pretty much what one does if one's interested in someone, and don't really have a way of getting in touch with them. Those two don't add up, though. You'd be willing to go out of your way to flag her down, but you don't want to take a chance? Telling them you've been asking around about them would set off anyone's alarms, though. I don't really see why you'd have to 'research her', and definitely not why you would tell her that.

It seems like some sort of way of keeping her at bay.
 

You said you were moving on so there wasn't much to say. It was a really really weird exchange and seems like you're trying to sabotage yourself. You don't "research" people and telling her you might have been a creeper? Seriously? I don't even know what the fuck that is. I'm not sure what advice you're looking for except the obvious of don't do that and it feels like your sabotaging yourself by going out of your way to not interact with her and then when you finally do you do this emotional dump of how you and your cousin have been investigating her and were probably creepy about it.
 
That was creepy, yes. The only question is the quantum. You flagged her down, then told her that you'd been "researching" her? You don't have to research people. What kinds of questions did you ask about her? I mean, if you asked one of her friends, "Hey, is Amanda single?" that's perfectly normal. For the record, telling her that you've been researching her was the creepiest part -- don't do that.

Finally, talking to someone isn't wasting your time! You could've hit it off as friends too. What weren't you sure about? "I've heard that Amanda might be a member of a Satanist cult. Let me ask our co-workers if they've ever heard her speak in tongues or sacrifice babies during lunch" is worth investigating. But you could've given off the wrong vibes depending on your inquiries.

I think it's a bit strange to ask around about someone you want to ask out. I mean, if I had interest, I'd just do it. You could learn about them if they say yes. Having to flag someone down's pretty much what one does if one's interested in someone, and don't really have a way of getting in touch with them. Those two don't add up, though. You'd be willing to go out of your way to flag her down, but you don't want to take a chance? Telling them you've been asking around about them would set off anyone's alarms, though. I don't really see why you'd have to 'research her', and definitely not why you would tell her that.

It seems like some sort of way of keeping her at bay.

I didn't know what I was doing....
 
I didn't know what I was doing....

Yes, you did. You're saying you've never interacted with a girl before so you thought the normal way to interact was to research them and then tell you were being creepy? Like you can't say you didn't know what you were doing that then know and admitted to her that you were doing something creepy.

Also, why did you not ask for advice/help if you didn't know what you were doing? You've asked plenty of other questions and people always responded but this time you refused to?
 
Yes, you did. You're saying you've never interacted with a girl before so you thought the normal way to interact was to research them and then tell you were being creepy? Like you can't say you didn't know what you were doing that then know and admitted to her that you were doing something creepy.

Also, why did you not ask for advice/help if you didn't know what you were doing? You've asked plenty of other questions and people always responded but this time you refused to?

I have interacted with girls before....That whole thing just came to mind. (it'll be a lot easier to talk about it rather than type this out.)

I'm sorry for giving you a headache.
 
Guys moral compass question,

Dating this girl, went on two dates, made out on second.
Really feeling this, could work out epicly.
Now we agreed we're not an item 'till we have the 'talk'.
Now she's gone on holiday for a month.

I have a date on tuesday and wednesday with other girls organised since last week..
Since we're not an item I'm still free to see what else is out there right?
Dick move?
 
Guys moral compass question,

Dating this girl, went on two dates, made out on second.
Really feeling this, could work out epicly.
Now we agreed we're not an item 'till we have the 'talk'.
Now she's gone on holiday for a month.

I have a date on tuesday and wednesday with other girls organised since last week..
Since we're not an item I'm still free to see what else is out there right?
Dick move?

Your situation is even less murky than if you'd never had "the talk." You aren't together. In fact, you only made out. You have no idea if you'll even have a third date. (Maybe a shark eats her on holiday. Maybe she marries a guy called Paolo.)

Go out on other dates. In fact, go out on as many dates as you want until you have "the talk" with one of them and you agree to be exclusive. It's not a dick move. It's dating self-preservation.
 
You're fine. Just don't do anything dumb like talking to Girl #1 about these other dates.

Edit: What he^ said. If you have multiple candidates you won't be broken up by any single one rejecting you like so many others in this thread. Play that field while you can, homey.
 
Your situation is even less murky than if you'd never had "the talk." You aren't together. In fact, you only made out. You have no idea if you'll even have a third date. (Maybe a shark eats her on holiday. Maybe she marries a guy called Paolo.)

Go out on other dates. In fact, go out on as many dates as you want until you have "the talk" with one of them and you agree to be exclusive. It's not a dick move. It's dating self-preservation.

You're fine. Just don't do anything dumb like talking to Girl #1 about these other dates.

Edit: What he^ said. If you have multiple candidates you won't be broken up by any single one rejecting you like so many others in this thread. Play that field while you can, homey.

Morality check completed thanks guys. Will enjoy these dates.
 
Haven't you read any John Grisham novels? The broke, underdog lawyer always wins in the end. What say we go chase some ambulances?

Hah, I just write contracts :(

But I'm a digital nomad who dates girls in many countries, thus I'm qualified in this thread.
 
Does anyone else just assume people who text awkwardly don't want to talk and cut contact? Shit just comes off bizarre so I stop talking...

I'll say something like "Do you like Thai? There's a place I want to try in x town"

They respond "Hello Zaraki. Yes I like Thai. I have had Thai two days ago. I don't feel like Thai."

That is the entire message. Feels like I'm talking to a damn robot.


Also Gooch, I have no clue what you're talking about.
 
You shouldn't wait at all. Go meet other people, your happiness shouldn't be held hostage by her. You've already expressed interest and she hasn't done anything about it.

Maybe she really does need 'more time', maybe she's not interested but doesn't want to be confrontational, maybe she's just manipulative and keeping you as the back-up guy. It doesn't matter, the same advice applies.

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I've held off from going out with someone who has show interest in going out with me hoping this other girl would tell me that she wanted to make things official. Will ask again and depending on her response i'll go out with this other girl or not.
 
Does anyone else just assume people who text awkwardly don't want to talk and cut contact? Shit just comes off bizarre so I stop talking...

I'll say something like "Do you like Thai? There's a place I want to try in x town"

They respond "Hello Zaraki. Yes I like Thai. I have had Thai two days ago. I don't feel like Thai."

That is the entire message. Feels like I'm talking to a damn robot.


Also Gooch, I have no clue what you're talking about.

Holy crap. Are they actually Thai? That could explain it.
 
I handle government contract disputes now! Also, I act confident and pretend I'm qualified, which is all it (and dating in general) takes.

Coincidentally talking to government types is precisely what helped me not suck at talking to girls. Figure if I can talk to generals and such in order to convince them to give us hundreds of thousands of dollars, I can talk girls into going out with me for at least one night.

Got a first date tonight with a girl I met on OKC. She made it real easy for me to ask her out. Texting yesterday, she asks what I'm doing this weekend, I tell her "I'd like to take you out, have you ever been to X". And that was that.
 
Coincidentally talking to government types is precisely what helped me not suck at talking to girls. Figure if I can talk to generals and such in order to convince them to give us hundreds of thousands of dollars, I can talk girls into going out with me for at least one night.

Got a first date tonight with a girl I met on OKC. She made it real easy for me to ask her out. Texting yesterday, she asks what I'm doing this weekend, I tell her "I'd like to take you out, have you ever been to X". And that was that.

I feel similarly. I had to interact with US Embassy staff and basically act like I was someone important, as well as interview guests on my podcast and basically talk with clients as if I've got it all together, it makes you feel comfortable with most normal conversations. Or at least to have the attitude that they should be lucky to talk with you, not the other way around.
 
As a long-time lurker to this thread (and GAF), I thought I'd throw in my scenario and see what y'all think...

There's a beautiful co-worker whom I'd like to ask out, but I'm having difficulty determining her interest level. We started chatting in the early spring, and since then, I have made it a point to escalate our communication so I could have an "excuse" to talk to her more often (e.g. transitioning from small-talk, to e-mail, to IM-chats, and, eventually, texts -- all when in-person communication is not possible). We follow one another on Instagram (I do some amateur photography on the side) and she saw that I had been visiting various parts of the city. During an e-mail exchange, she offers her cell number to me and says that if I ever want some company during my cityscape explorations, I should let her know.

"Awesome," I say to myself. "This is a great sign -- clear and unambiguous."

A few days later, I ask her over text if she wants to join me for an excursion downtown, but she politely declines and, perhaps tellingly, doesn't offer an alternative date to hang out (which I now interpret as a bad sign). I note this as a red flag, but it's still early so I just let her rebuff go...

A few weeks go by and we resume texting/flirting. The following day at work, over IM, she asks me out to lunch and we set something up for mid-week. At lunch, I note that she reveals to me that she's "very shy." I would have never known her to be shy because she seems very friendly to pretty much everyone around the office (we all know those types of seemingly extroverted girls like that, right?). Anyway, her revelation about being shy is a geniune surprise to me...

...I think she was trying to tell me something when she revealed her shyness (i.e. "Ask me out"), however, I'm not getting any other instances of interest from her. For example, there's no non-sexual physical contact (i.e. she hasn't touched my forearm or something like that during conversation). She also sometimes curtails her texting/IMs rather abruptly, and she almost never initiates a conversation.

Most recently, as she's spent a lot of time moving into her own place in early July -- along with summer travel for both of us -- our communication has been minimal and I sense that if there was an attraction from her towards me, it is now petering out before anything can even start.

The last "mixed message" event occurred about 10 days ago, where, following a company summer party, we started IM-ing and talked about our experience at the party. She said that while she had fun, she was exhausted from the whole thing, citing that she was an "outgoing introvert" (as an introvert myself, I find that hard to believe because she was working the room quite well, while I find going out into large groups as anxiety-inducing). Anyway, I teased her about being an "outgoing introvert" and over IM, she sends me one of those cheeseball Buzzfeed-like articles about "What You Should Know Before Dating an Outgoing Introvert." I can't tell if that was an innocent link she sent me, or, again, if she was trying to (shyly) tell me something...

My assessment is to treat perceived mixed messages as a red light and to not pursue. For my money, getting into emotional knots over mixed messages is not healthy and I've often disengaged from those situations.

That said, I'd be curious as to anyone else's insights in this thread -- whether they have had similar scenarios, and what they did/did not do in those scenarios.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post!
 
As a long-time lurker to this thread (and GAF), I thought I'd throw in my scenario and see what y'all think...
Proceed with caution since you're colleagues, but I'd say you have 3 options when it comes to mixed messages:

1) Be blunt/direct and ask her out on a date. You will get the clear answer you seek.

2) Abort and forget about her, see other people, etc. Only do this if you won't.get hung up on her and constantly questioning 'what if'. You have to actually move on

3) status quo and keep getting mixed messages
 
Proceed with caution since you're colleagues, but I'd say you have 3 options when it comes to mixed messages:

1) Be blunt/direct and ask her out on a date. You will get the clear answer you seek.

2) Abort and forget about her, see other people, etc. Only do this if you won't.get hung up on her and constantly questioning 'what if'. You have to actually move on

3) status quo and keep getting mixed messages


Thanks for the quick advice, Llyranor! I think your note about #2 is is spot-on, especially the bolded. When I was in high school and college, I used to get "hung up" on certain women. I think I've done a much better job of letting go in recent years when I sensed that things weren't a "go" with a woman.

However, my current infatuation/interest in this girl is simulating those more unrefined feelings from my high school and college years. I'm glad we're both out of town for a while. I think if my feelings of attraction towards her return when she gets back into town, I'll follow your note about #1. If they don't, or if the feelings remain diminished, I'll just go with option #2.

The status quo, though, is no good. Thanks again!
 
Arch, I would just flat out ask her on a date before bailing. Make it clear that it's a romantic date. That seems better than trying to read into everything she's doing and trying to discern if she's giving you signs. And it's better than dropping her before actually making any real sort of move.

As far as people who seem outgoing when they say they're shy: A lot of people with social anxiety or shyness problems feel a lot worse than they appear. I've surprised many people when I tell them about my social anxiety.
 
Just got out of a long term relationship over a month ago, will be back in NYC in a couple of weeks. The thought of finding another person that I love and care for that much sounds exhausting if not impossible. I don't particularly like being single either though. The nyc dating scene seems really intimidating, anyone have any advice on that front who have taken part?

Edit: Does anyone else feel like losing someone that special can be a lifelong regret? I don't think I can just assume I'll have another connection as good as it was where someone truly loves you like that. the long distance is what ended us I couldn't give enough to the relationship while in law school.
 
Just got out of a long term relationship over a month ago, will be back in NYC in a couple of weeks. The thought of finding another person that I love and care for that much sounds exhausting if not impossible. I don't particularly like being single either though. The nyc dating scene seems really intimidating, anyone have any advice on that front who have taken part?

Edit: Does anyone else feel like losing someone that special can be a lifelong regret? I don't think I can just assume I'll have another connection as good as it was where someone truly loves you like that. the long distance is what ended us I couldn't give enough to the relationship while in law school.

Welcome to single lawyer-GAF.

What you're specifying gets easier with time. I promise you that. It's also completely true that no connection with someone you just meet will rival the connection you made with your ex. Connections take time to build. I think people often forget this. If you absolutely must judge experiences, make sure they're like experiences. I'm sure that, over the course of your relationship with your ex, it took time to build. Don't write someone off after a first or second date because there's no mind-blowing intimacy.

Your ex will always be a lifelong data point. My ex-wife's like that for me, and she's now my best friend. But get back out there. Your ex will only be a regret until you realize that there are plenty of someones out there for you.
 
My assessment is to treat perceived mixed messages as a red light and to not pursue. For my money, getting into emotional knots over mixed messages is not healthy and I've often disengaged from those situations.

How many more signals does she have to give you? From an outside perspective, she's been very clear with you. She's very shy. She's made more than one attempt to spend time with you outside work. The decline on city exploration invitation could have been due to any number of reasons. It sounds more like you're the one who's feeling shy/insecure and looking for a reason to not pursue. Expecting her to do something forward like touch your arm when she's already confided to you that she's shy is not really taking in what she's saying. She likes you, and wants you to make a move. Muster up some confidence and ask her out. If you're too worried about rejection or backlash because she's a co-worker to frame it as an official romantic date with her, that's fine, but at least ask her to an activity where you can spend time together, maybe have a drink afterwards.
 
How many more signals does she have to give you? From an outside perspective, she's been very clear with you. She's very shy...[snip] It sounds more like you're the one who's feeling shy/insecure and looking for a reason to not pursue.... If you're too worried about rejection or backlash because she's a co-worker to frame it as an official romantic date with her, that's fine, but at least ask her to an activity where you can spend time together, maybe have a drink afterwards.


@eyeball_kid: I do have some concerns about dating a co-worker... But you nailed the bolded part, and I appreciate the kick in the ass. I'll look for an activity where we can hang out, but out of the framework of an "official" romantic date, thereby keeping things light. Thank you.

@Zaphrynn: Thanks. You're right regarding the perceived outward social appearances relative to one's internal anxiety. For me, I often wear my anxiety on my sleeve; in her case, I was just taken aback by the perceived social poise I saw her convey, juxtaposed to her private admission of anxiousness.
 
^ there is a big difference between asking people if a girl is single and maybe has interest in you, and trying to find out every detail about them from other people. When possible it's best to find these things out from the person themselves.

Also Gooch was being especially weird about it.

Also lol at all the lawyers here. I work at a law firm! If y'all make a GAF firm I'll gladly handle your finances for you :p
 
Alright, no response yet since Thursday night. Not thinking about it much now, I'm starting to think that she's not interested. I knew her hesitation when I asked for her number was a bad sign.
 
Alright, no response yet since Thursday night. Not thinking about it much now, I'm starting to think that she's not interested. I knew her hesitation when I asked for her number was a bad sign.

Yeah, consider that strike 3 and she's out. No reason to waste any effort on her. Move on and forget about it.
 
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