Support NeoGAF

[Fox Mulder]

This game will be good, don't get me wrong but I wish they were a little more aggressive. You can't come out boasting about static weather, static puddles, static night on only a handful of tracks when other racers do it dynamically with a higher track count.

Why not have torrential rain and weather like the horizon 2 expansion?

Why not have winter and snow? Black ice? Freezing rain? Dew filled morning races? High winds that affect handling? Overcast night? Clear nights with the moon lighting the track.


There is so many options and possibilities and its just sad to see the game is marked on these new features when they are lackluster at best.

I'm referring to presentation wise, not handling or ai races in these situations. Simply how the game looks.

I don't think they really need to get too into weather. That would be great for horizon or a new PGR. The storm island stuff was fun, would love a snowy mountain climb or something in the next one. Racing on Nurburgring in the snow/ice is still a memorable time to me from PGR.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Night racing on race tracks by itself just seems odd. It makes sense for an endurance race with day to night shift or vice versa, but where does anyone start and end a race at night on pitch black courses? Better to have it than not but it is wierd.

They do in real life all the time, they are called stints.

I've heard a lot of criticisms levelled at PCars, some of them wholly justified, others not so, but to say, especially in an FM thread that PCars is arcadey is ludicrous.

I am a big FM fan, but in terms of simulation of physics, PCars is miles ahead.

You may have fallen into the "slippy physics = realistic physics" trap, the reality is very different, tyres, especially slicks, have a heck of a lot of grip.

Longitudinal grip in FM5 is way off, lateral grip is better, but the slip curve is off, there should be more grip up to the edges of traction, and less once you exceed it.

PCars is most definitely not "miles ahead" in physics, it's good but not miles ahead.

 

[Mascot]

Yes

pCARS controls absolutely terribly with a joypad out of the box until you change most of the settings. I've no idea why the defaults were set like they were - it instantly alienated a lot of players. Don't judge the physics of pCARS until the pad is dialled in.

Also you can feel how there's less grip because of the lower temperatures, which is something that I haven't felt with GT6 or pCARS.

pCARS definitely does this. Track temperature has a dynamic and appropriate effect on grip, which will vary correctly as time of day progresses and as weather changes. Some other interesting physics stuff pCARS does is model the effect of wind speed and direction on aero, and model the elevation and corresponding atmospheric pressure of tracks on an engine's aspiration and power output. It is a really detailed physics engine.

 

[soundscream]

I've heard a lot of criticisms levelled at PCars, some of them wholly justified, others not so, but to say, especially in an FM thread that PCars is arcadey is ludicrous.

I am a big FM fan, but in terms of simulation of physics, PCars is miles ahead.

You may have fallen into the "slippy physics = realistic physics" trap, the reality is very different, tyres, especially slicks, have a heck of a lot of grip.

Longitudinal grip in FM5 is way off, lateral grip is better, but the slip curve is off, there should be more grip up to the edges of traction, and less once you exceed it.

Miles ahead..........come on man.

For months all we heard from the PC evangelist was how it's the real deal and the GT/Forzas of the world days were numbered. But what actually came out was an ambitious unpolished game that had and still has many issues.

 

[Boomshaw]

Have to say, I had high hopes for PCars, but when I played it, I was completely dissapointed. FM6 looks incredible, and I'll probably get in on launch.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

You guys I finally got my wheel.
What have I been doing with my life?

 

[Noobcraft]

You guys I finally got my wheel.
What have I been doing with my life?

Authentic barefoot racing simulator.

Spoiler

congrats

 

[Bobnob]

pCARS controls absolutely terribly with a joypad out of the box until you change most of the settings. I've no idea why the defaults were set like they were - it instantly alienated a lot of players. Don't judge the physics of pCARS until the pad is dialled in.

Oh my pads dialled in, i've ran a good few #1s but thats probably down to the lack of people playing. I messed with the pad for hours until it was right.

 

[Hydranockz]

I know I should probably get the Fifa 16 bundle instead of the Forza 6 one but holy shit is it tough to resist those engine sounds on the Xbox...

 

[Lug Nuts]

You guys I finally got my wheel.
What have I been doing with my life?

Yea it's real hard to go back afterwards.

 

[OEM]

You guys I finally got my wheel.
What have I been doing with my life?

Which wheel is that? I need to buy one as well. Seems like a great time to buy it.

 

[SparksBCN]

pCARS definitely does this. Track temperature has a dynamic and appropriate effect on grip, which will vary correctly as time of day progresses and as weather changes. Some other interesting physics stuff pCARS does is model the effect of wind speed and direction on aero, and model the elevation and corresponding atmospheric pressure of tracks on an engine's aspiration and power output. It is a really detailed physics engine.

I'm not saying pCARS doesn't do this, in fact AFAIK GT6 does it as well, but I don't really noticed it, yet on Forza 6 became very clear after the first couple of corners... What I've noticed on pCARS is what you mention about the effect of wind speed and direction on the aerodynamic of the car.

 

[RawNuts]

I know I'm late on this after the track reveal, but wow. This is my post from 2 months ago:

I would be so happy with Monza.

Also, if pCARS has taught me anything, it's that Brands Hatch and Willow Springs are still super fun tracks. I would love to see either of them in Forza 6, Brands Hatch being the more likely of the two though.

The chance is pretty much non-existent, but it would be amazing to see Circuit of the Americas as well.

Brands Hatch, Monza, and COTA are all in the game; Turn 10 is trying to give me a heart attack from excitement.

"The chance is pretty much non-existent" is what I said; my past self is a dickhead.

 

[Gek54]

They've explained it as stints.

So I have searched all over and the only official mention of stints I have found is when Dan G. describes why an endurance race is "about 2 tanks of gas or 2 hours long". Nothing about racing at night being a stint. If was an endurance race where a pit would transition from day to night while maintaining AI positions on the track, that would be nice and what several people seem to hoping for, but if it's just starting a new race at night, meh.

Got a link where night racing being a stint explained?

 

[Community Forum]

Has there been any mention of what kind of soundtrack this game will have? I googled and didn't come up with anything. I want real music, not whatever was in 5.

 

[soundscream]

Has there been any mention of what kind of soundtrack this game will have? I googled and didn't come up with anything. I want real music, not whatever was in 5.

Aside from the fact that "real music" is a nonsensical term, you're out of luck its coming back.

 

[Terbinator]

I don't understand why anyone would want Monza in the game (that is, in place of another track).

It's a shit track to watch and a shit one to race on.

 

[SolarMystic]

Does anyone have the post that explained the easiest way to buy a cheap car quickly in each game?

I'm sitting down with fm5 tonight to grind out 200 cars. Then going to do the same with Horizon 2.

 

[Mascot]

Oh my pads dialled in, i've ran a good few #1s but thats probably down to the lack of people playing. I messed with the pad for hours until it was right.

Ah, OK. I'm still interested to know why you think the physics are 'simcade' though. I've read a few accounts from GT-class race drivers that basically say the same thing: the cars are relatively 'easy' to drive up to the grip limit, but go much beyond that limit and you'll struggle to save it. pCARS gives me exactly that feeling (disclaimer: I've almost exclusively used GT cars in pCARS). By contrast, I found FM5 to be very disappointing in that cars would be slipping and sliding around all over the place. It felt like wet-weather grip on a dry track. I've always played Forza with no assists but FM5 was just annoyingly uncontrollable for me at times. Having to use a joypad probably didn't help (I've had a FFB wheel since FM2, but not one for the Bone) but I could swap between wheel and pad with great ease in FM2, 3 and 4. If FM6 has similar levels of grip to FM5 then I think that might be enough to put me off. I certainly don't buy into this theory that 'slippier = more sim'. I think that's been pretty much debunked in sim racing circles now anyway.

 

[danowat]

I don't understand why anyone would want Monza in the game (that is, in place of another track).

It's a shit track to watch and a shit one to race on.

Opinions.

Monza has a great flow (apart from the good awful chicanery at the first turn), Lesmo 2 is one of my favourite corners bar none, hitting that apex just right feels so good because of the camber, love it.

 

[Mascot]

Opinions.

Monza has a great flow (apart from the good awful chicanery at the first turn), Lesmo 2 is one of my favourite corners bar none, hitting that apex just right feels so good because of the camber, love it.

If there was just one Italian circuit allowed I'd always pick Imola over Monza. Both are good racing tracks but I just feel like Imola offers a lot more variety, interest and excitement. Plus: elevation trumps plateau.

 

[MouldyK]

Does anyone have the post that explained the easiest way to buy a cheap car quickly in each game?

I'm sitting down with fm5 tonight to grind out 200 cars. Then going to do the same with Horizon 2.

You mean how to earn the money or going through the menus?


Because going through the Menus, Forza Horizon 2 is MUCH better because you can:

- Sort by price.
- Flick left to the cheapest car.
- Buy car.
- When they ask you if you want to leave Showroom, say "No".
- Repeat the first step.


Forza 5 is a pain because you can't sort by car value because Turn 10 are weird. Luckily, they recommended me a car which was only like 22,000 and kept recommending it, so it was easier once they kicked me out the Garage.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

So I have searched all over and the only official mention of stints I have found is when Dan G. describes why an endurance race is "about 2 tanks of gas or 2 hours long". Nothing about racing at night being a stint. If was an endurance race where a pit would transition from day to night while maintaining AI positions on the track, that would be nice and what several people seem to hoping for, but if it's just starting a new race at night, meh.

Got a link where night racing being a stint explained?

https://youtu.be/Ym4ZOhciJRc

Dan mentions it here about a minute in. I'm sure I've read or heard it elsewhere too.

Maybe not.

I get what you're saying though, see how the endurance races pan out. It could just be a throwaway excuse but it opens a can of worms. Spa has day, night and wet, if at the very least the player's position could be held across three stints it would make for a decent enough endurance race. Unlikely, I know.

 

[danowat]

If there was just one Italian circuit allowed I'd always pick Imola over Monza. Both are good racing tracks but I just feel like Imola offers a lot more variety, interest and excitement. Plus: elevation trumps plateau.

Yes, Imola is a good track, the descent to the last couple of corners makes things interesting, apart from that, it's very much like Monza.

But it still doesn't have anything anywhere near as fun as Lesmo 2!

Talking about Italian tracks, the V8 Superstars game had some classics!

 

[SolarMystic]

You mean how to earn the money or going through the menus?


Because going through the Menus, Forza Horizon 2 is MUCH better because you can:

- Sort by price.
- Flick left to the cheapest car.
- Buy car.
- When they ask you if you want to leave Showroom, say "No".
- Repeat the first step.


Forza 5 is a pain because you can't sort by car value because Turn 10 are weird. Luckily, they recommended me a car which was only like 22,000 and kept recommending it, so it was easier once they kicked me out the Garage.

Menus, and thanks! I thought there was a cheap, easy to get too car in fm5 as well.

 

[MouldyK]

Menus, and thanks! I thought there was a cheap, easy to get too car in fm5 as well.

I wish! When they gave me the 22,000 as a recommended one (because I bought most of the other cars at that point except the ones over 1,000,000 Credits)...and then kept doing it, I was like "Thank God!"


Now i'm getting money on Forza 4 and the buying process also seems long.


Hopefully Forza 6 fixes this.

 

[Mascot]

I wish! When they gave me the 22,000 as a recommended one (because I bought most of the other cars at that point except the ones over 1,000,000 Credits)...and then kept doing it, I was like "Thank God!"


Now i'm getting money on Forza 4 and the buying process also seems long.


Hopefully Forza 6 fixes this.

Doesn't anyone think it's odd that this system has been set up whereby players can get rewarded with extra credits simply by spending hours and hours of their lives doing a boring, meaningless and repetitive task like buying the same car over and over and over again? It seems ridiculous. Why not have it so that you're rewarded instead for overtaking X number of cars, or running X number of clean laps? With this particular 'reward' Turn 10 are actively encouraging their users not to play the actual game, and instead spend valuable free time on some soul-destroying, annoying and monotonous grind like some punishment handed out at a Victorian school. It's like "prove how hard core you are, prove how much you want these points by doing something that nobody in their right mind would ever choose to do". It's borderline psychological torture.

 

[Terbinator]

I wish they would re-introduce the region aspect to the career.

...It's borderline psychological torture.

Maybe it's all part of M$ data mining push? "Just how chump are these chumps".

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Yeah Forza logs all kind of stats, if they had wanted to reward dedicated players there's much better ways than buying cars.

 

[willbsn13]

New UI screen from the Gamersyde footage, didn't see it posted here.

You can see the prize spins tab down the bottom right, so that looks like a new feature coming over from Horizon 2! Really glad about this! I much prefer that over getting just a set amount of credits every single time like in FM5. What do you guys think?

 

[Hydranockz]

New UI screen from the Gamersyde footage, didn't see it posted here. http://i.imgur.com/bS2N40O.jpg[IMG]

You can see the prize spins tab down the bottom right, so that looks like a new feature coming over from Horizon 2! Really glad about this! I much prefer that over getting just a set amount of credits every single time like in FM5. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

I'm not familiar with that system. Could you elaborate?

 

[willbsn13]

I'm not familiar with that system. Could you elaborate?

Basically, instead of getting a certain amount of credits each time you level up like in FM5, you get a 'wheelspin' which basically gives you a random prize - could be a small or big sum of credits or a new car.

Hopefully it'll be more than just cars/credits in FM6 - it would be cool to see exclusive liveries or tunes or something like that to keep it fresh every time you level up.

 

[MouldyK]

I'm not familiar with that system. Could you elaborate?

Here is a video.

Basically, instead of getting a certain amount of credits each time you level up like in FM5, you get a 'wheelspin' which basically gives you a random prize - could be a small or big sum of credits or a new car.

Hopefully it'll be more than just cars/credits in FM6 - it would be cool to see exclusive liveries or tunes or something like that to keep it fresh every time you level up.

Yup...and VIPs get double the amount of money...or get the Car...AND THE CASH VALUE OF THE CAR!

 

[Bobnob]

Ah, OK. I'm still interested to know why you think the physics are 'simcade' though. I've read a few accounts from GT-class race drivers that basically say the same thing: the cars are relatively 'easy' to drive up to the grip limit, but go much beyond that limit and you'll struggle to save it. pCARS gives me exactly that feeling (disclaimer: I've almost exclusively used GT cars in pCARS). By contrast, I found FM5 to be very disappointing in that cars would be slipping and sliding around all over the place. It felt like wet-weather grip on a dry track. I've always played Forza with no assists but FM5 was just annoyingly uncontrollable for me at times. Having to use a joypad probably didn't help (I've had a FFB wheel since FM2, but not one for the Bone) but I could swap between wheel and pad with great ease in FM2, 3 and 4. If FM6 has similar levels of grip to FM5 then I think that might be enough to put me off. I certainly don't buy into this theory that 'slippier = more sim'. I think that's been pretty much debunked in sim racing circles now anyway.

I understand your problem with F5 and also know people who had the same issues, a lot of that imo came down to tuning, on previous forza's you could get away with 0.? cambers front and rear with no real loss of traction, in no 5 i was finding myself tuning my cambers at like 3.0 f and 2.5 r and upwards, there was defenatly a problem in this regard to F5 compared to earlier forza's but hey Pcars is'nt imune from this in a way with lots of quick guys running 0.0 rear cambers in all classes and getting no 1s. Forza 5 also had a issue were brakes would lock up less with the sensitivity pressure up on 200% (abs off). I know guys who nearly gave up on it because they could'nt brake without locking up, when i told them to increase the pressure to 200% they were so pleased with it.In summery F5 had shed loads of little irratating glitches what ruined the game for many.

 

[chrislowe]

I don't understand why anyone would want Monza in the game (that is, in place of another track).

It's a shit track to watch and a shit one to race on.

Old Monza is pretty fun. But fun tracks to drive and race are a1 ring. Watkins glen the old one. And old spa. Worst are city tracks.

 

[MouldyK]

Doesn't anyone think it's odd that this system has been set up whereby players can get rewarded with extra credits simply by spending hours and hours of their lives doing a boring, meaningless and repetitive task like buying the same car over and over and over again? It seems ridiculous. Why not have it so that you're rewarded instead for overtaking X number of cars, or running X number of clean laps? With this particular 'reward' Turn 10 are actively encouraging their users not to play the actual game, and instead spend valuable free time on some soul-destroying, annoying and monotonous grind like some punishment handed out at a Victorian school. It's like "prove how hard core you are, prove how much you want these points by doing something that nobody in their right mind would ever choose to do". It's borderline psychological torture.

Oh, of course I find it odd.

They could have done many other things which are available in all games:

- Pass 10,000 Cars.
- Get One Car of Each Manufacturer (much less repetitive, but longer because of more money needed).
- Drive 10,000 Miles.
- Drive on every track variation in each game.


On another note, Forza 4's World Championship races have 2 Heats for each race! You basically do each race twice, but the 2nd time is a different time variation! Maybe Forza 6 might do something like that.


Also, Forza 6 needs to tally Championship Points! Horizon 2 did it!

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Also, Forza 6 needs to tally Championship Points! Horizon 2 did it!

No official word on this still?

 

[willbsn13]

No official word on this still?

No idea about single player career. The online leagues have a different scoring system however (than FM5)

During an open window, players can join a League Lobby and compete against one another in that lobby’s playlist. After each race, players will earn points based on their performance (what position they placed in, as well as the number of higher-skilled players they beat). As long as a League window is open, players can continue to play in that lobby and earn points; these points will accumulate on that League’s leaderboard for the duration of the League. Once a scheduled League has closed down, players will earn credits based on their final position on the League’s overall leaderboard.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Well that's something. Online has been hit and miss for me, if Leagues tidies the racing up I'll be tempted to resub to Gold.

 

[MouldyK]

No idea about single player career. The online leagues have a different scoring system however (than FM5)

Yeah, at least Online Players might have something good.

Single Player probably won't, but I can dream!


Also, Forza 4's buying is so easier than 5!

- A to "Buy Car"
- Press "Right" twice to get to Alfa Romeo.
- Mash "A" to buy cheap 5,000 Car.
- Back to Step 1.

 

[Bobnob]

Some of you guys should join a weekend racing league, from the sounds of it you would really enjoy it.

 

[Grassy]

Yes, Imola is a good track, the descent to the last couple of corners makes things interesting, apart from that, it's very much like Monza.

But it still doesn't have anything anywhere near as fun as Lesmo 2!

Talking about Italian tracks, the V8 Superstars game had some classics!

Holy shit. I remember seeing that game pop-up on the Forza Central forum yonks ago, but I'd completely forgotten about it until now. Was it any good?

 

[danowat]

Holy shit. I remember seeing that game pop-up on the Forza Central forum yonks ago, but I'd completely forgotten about it until now. Was it any good?

I skipped the first one, as it didn't have a cockpit view, but purchased NC (Next Challenge), and I thought it was pretty good.

Physics were a little arcadey, tyre model was very stiff with no give and a bit of an over grippy slip curve, but it was just different enough, with some unique cars, all big V8 saloon cars, and tracks to keep things interesting.

I enjoyed it, for what it was, think I picked it up for something like a fiver, so it was worth it.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I wonder if a more motorsport focused Gran Turismo would sway Forza to follow along those lines. T10 have the budget, the assets and enough talent, are they still making the game they want to or happy being Xbox's answer to GT.

 

[Drastic]

Doesn't anyone think it's odd that this system has been set up whereby players can get rewarded with extra credits simply by spending hours and hours of their lives doing a boring, meaningless and repetitive task like buying the same car over and over and over again? It seems ridiculous. Why not have it so that you're rewarded instead for overtaking X number of cars, or running X number of clean laps? With this particular 'reward' Turn 10 are actively encouraging their users not to play the actual game, and instead spend valuable free time on some soul-destroying, annoying and monotonous grind like some punishment handed out at a Victorian school. It's like "prove how hard core you are, prove how much you want these points by doing something that nobody in their right mind would ever choose to do". It's borderline psychological torture.

Well, tbh, it follows their philosophy/focus of the game being centered on car collecting. If it were racing focused the bonus offerings would be related to doing racing related things.

They never said anything about turning gamers into racing lovers or racing lovers into gamers...."car" lovers.

For me it's been an ok trade-off with the auction house, but that is gone now. With the lack of choosing race length or qualifying, I don't think I can stomach another iteration with 90% of the races being 3-5 lap sprints.

I think it's such a waste to spend all the time and resources on time of day, rain, "3d modeled" puddles, etc. when we can't even have proper qualifying which would take a fraction of time and resources to implement.

It takes a lap or more to get heat in the tires, so you're often left with 1.5-2 laps to physically push your way to the front, since you must start from the back. This causes most people to just bully their way through the AI to win or place.

Forcing this type of mentality in single player causes most to take this same attitude online as well, which used to be fine with custom public lobbies. Since we're forced to race with these people race-in, race-out with T10 hopper matchmaking, it's typically an exercise in frustration.

The above coupled with omission of some of the best (and my personal fav) tracks such as Mugello, Maple Valley, Suzuka, Tsukuba, etc. etc. I'm going to sit this one out, at least a while, which is a first for me with this series.

 

[Hydranockz]

I remember in 5, turning damage to simulation and doing a 30 lap race and thinking to myself, "boy I can't wait to see how fuel becomes an issue. Wonder when the AI will decide to pit". Boy, was I dismayed.

 

[Mascot]

I understand your problem with F5 and also know people who had the same issues, a lot of that imo came down to tuning, on previous forza's you could get away with 0.? cambers front and rear with no real loss of traction, in no 5 i was finding myself tuning my cambers at like 3.0 f and 2.5 r and upwards, there was defenatly a problem in this regard to F5 compared to earlier forza's but hey Pcars is'nt imune from this in a way with lots of quick guys running 0.0 rear cambers in all classes and getting no 1s. Forza 5 also had a issue were brakes would lock up less with the sensitivity pressure up on 200% (abs off). I know guys who nearly gave up on it because they could'nt brake without locking up, when i told them to increase the pressure to 200% they were so pleased with it.In summery F5 had shed loads of little irratating glitches what ruined the game for many.

Mmm... interesting. I was very late to FM5 so would have missed discussion about this. I did find braking extremely harsh. It's weird that increasing the brake pressure makes it less aggressive. Wonder why this wasn't patched? It must put a lot of people off.

 

[danowat]

Mmm... interesting. I was very late to FM5 so would have missed discussion about this. I did find braking extremely harsh. It's weird that increasing the brake pressure makes it less aggressive. Wonder why this wasn't patched? It must put a lot of people off.

I'm sure I read it was more to do with the (lack of or too much?) deadzone in the triggers?, it's also hard to incrementally apply the throttle, a tiny bit of trigger equals more throttle than it should, something wrong with the sensitivity curve?.

 

[Mascot]

I'm sure I read it was more to do with the (lack of or too much?) deadzone in the triggers?, it's also hard to incrementally apply the throttle, a tiny bit of trigger equals more throttle than it should, something wrong with the sensitivity curve?.

Yeah, that sounds like a summary of my throttle and braking issues with the pad. It seemed tyres were either always spinning under acceleration or locked up under braking. Couple this with the reduced lateral traction and it made for quite a frustrating experience, TBH. It felt like a drifting game at times.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Yeah, that sounds like a summary of my throttle and braking issues with the pad. It seemed tyres were either always spinning under acceleration or locked up under braking. Couple this with the reduced lateral traction and it made for quite a frustrating experience, TBH. It felt like a drifting game at times.

Forza should have options for the degree of traction control and ABS like Gran Turismo has. GT's ABS=1/10 as standard would solve that problem.
A more pro solution would be to let players set dead zones on the triggers and trigger linearity in maybe an advanced controller setup menu.

I would still want that "degree of tcs" in Forza :/ (or even a per-car preset that is close to how the manufacturer has setup the tcs in real life)