GHG
Member
I had this happen when I was playing through the demo again last night. I was 2nd and the AI in 1st span out into the tire wall on the 2nd to last corner.
That was with the low agression setting turned on as well.
Forza Motorsport 6 has "wet weather, 3D puddles and night races" + more
- Thread starter Steverulez
- Start date
I had this happen when I was playing through the demo again last night. I was 2nd and the AI in 1st span out into the tire wall on the 2nd to last corner.
That was with the low agression setting turned on as well.
Yeah, it does make you wonder what games will look like in twenty years time. FM6 has made a rod for its own back with how amazing it looks in the wet. The dry/night tracks look like they are from a different game somehow. Same thing happened with DC. Driving games always seem to look better with moody overcast lighting, and even better with good wet weather effects. FM2's pre-storm Silverstone was my favourite lighting condition in FM right up until wet races in FM6.
They are up there, that's for sure, but they aren't the best, and aren't unmatched, it's the only element of the game that's "sim" IMO.
I enjoy it for what it is, bit of car porn, bit of poke-car-mon, bit of sim physics with a smorgasbord of arcade elements.
I don't like the schizophrenic nature of the sim vs arcade juxtaposition of the game, but I know I am not their target demographic.
Bobnob
Member
Your whining a hell of a lot about a game your probably never going to get. Plus some of your comments/gifs are mildy annoying if not totally false. Post #637 forza 6 thread, project cars forum.
It is mainly due to the limited post process effects happening with the camera, there is minimal camera movement, shake etc. Also the slightly more limited lighting engine will make it more natural the same in GT case and road cars tend to look quite slow and boring on real world race tracks. At least when raced properly and not drifting.
Race cars on the other hand should look a little more lively and aggressive over the curbs due to the hard setup they use.
That's good to hear, I've not seen it myself yet. Hopefully it's not a pre-canned response and is based on the mentality of the AI. Remember the godawful way a random AI car would occasionally just keep driving straight under full throttle instead of taking bends, and crashing into the barrier? It used to happen a lot at Hockenheim for some reason. It seemed like an attempt to inject unpredictability into the AI behaviour, but just looked like the driver had had an aneurysm at the wheel with his foot stuck on the gas.
If the AI in FM6 really is more human-like (without being total dicks) then that should make races a lot more exciting.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
There was something very canned about AI behaviour then, the way some would lose it and rejoin the track to just slam into the player providing you maintained enough speed. Either had to slow down or just accept you're gonna get taken out.
Whining? I've been passionately discussing Forza on various forums for over ten years. And there's nothing in that post that I haven't said here. I've praised FM and I've criticised FM (hopefully constructively). That's how discussion and debates on forums develop. And do you really want to drag up quotes as some sort of attack? Have you heard the one about people in glass houses?
Let's just get on with discussing Forza, yeah?
My favorite thing about sims, is that if flexible enough, they allow you to answer your 'what if...' questions.
What if they DIDN'T shut the track down do to conditions? How would it feel to drive... To me that's the point of a good sim, you can push boundaries without worrying about property damage or injuries...
Try them on unbeatable and tell me they race like a track day. As someone who could get in-front of the AI on unbeatable by 10s+ on FM5, they're insane on 6.
Purely my personal opinion of the unbeatable AI.........
Places 1 and 2 are purposely OP (maybe more power / grip?) than everyone else, so you end up having some half decent scraps with the rest of the field, while 1st and 2nd peg off into the distance.
It was like this in FM5 as well, and I'd probably say it's by design, simply because coming 3rd isn't much worse (in terms of gold medals etc) than coming 1st
Diablohead
Member
visual car body roll in forza 6 is still rather lame.
That's good to hear, and hopefully the slower AI (for us mere mortals..!) will also attack corners, drive aggressively, and generally look like they are putting up a fight, just like 'slower' drivers in MP races do. They might be slower, but it's the mistakes, the going deep in corners, the inappropriate gear selection, the poor braking that lowers their lap times, not just driving at reduced throttle. Everyone will (should) be driving similarly-specc'd cars. after all. Hopefully the improvements to the Drivatar mentality will accommodate this. Just because a player is slow shouldn't mean they have to race against Miss Daisy's chauffeur. Hope that makes sense.
That might well be part of the reason behind the perceived 'timid' behaviour.
I don't know what it is, but races in FM (and similarly in GT) often look more like track days to me rather than competitive races. There's little sensation of cars being driven close to the limit, of being thrown around the track. It's like the drivers in FM (and GT) are nervous about scratching their paintwork or getting black flagged my a marshal. If you've ever been to a track day you might get what I mean.
Contrast Shinnn's FM6 gif of FM6 with one of SunhiLegend's from DC (and don't fucking dare see this as a crack in the door to an argument about graphics - my point is all about the attitude of the cars). The BMW in the lower gif is really being chucked around.
FM6
DC
Track days by necessity are effectively processions with very polite overtaking, cars given wide berths, cars driven nowhere near the limit. I hope T10 try to address this in the future to make the races a little more visceral. They are still fun, but rarely balls-to-the-wall exciting.
Same issue with all sim racers compared to Driveclub in actual racing. Problem is the level of camera shake, suspension feedback, vibrations, representation of g-force changes etc, are all toned down. The sense of speed and feeling of danger is dramatically reduced when you limit these things. Hell I play ProjectCars with camera shake on max, and even then the sense of speed still pales in comparison. Unless you're driving the absolute fastest cars, the sense of speed in GT/Forza/PCars/Assetto etc can often feel somewhat pedestrian. The risk is in the handling and fear of loss of traction, but the visual side of things does not properly match up imo.
Hopefully like PCars, more sim racers at least provide the option to increase these things (camera shake, g-force, motion blur etc). I know some people dislike these sorts of features as it affects their driving (that's the point!), but imo it makes a huge difference to the thrill and feeling of speed, as well as the level of immersion, so I'm all for it.
And it's just occurred to me that AI cars generally run much simplified physics models, so that possibly contributes to the reduced visual translation of forces acting on the vehicle. Maybe there's a way of visually exaggerating the forces to compensate?
ResidentDante
Member
We get it, Driveclub is perfect. Can we move on and talk Forza 6 here please?
It's possible.
It's not so much about DC, but the implementation of said features in to Sim racers (all of them, including Forza). For some reason exaggerated visual que's tend to only exist in simcade and arcade racers, when in reality these sorts of things would be just as welcome in sim racers. If you can't mimic the exact feeling or aggression of speed because of physical limitations (e.g. being stuck sat on a stationary chair instead of a real car), then exaggerate other elements to compensate for the difference.
Driveclub is like a summer movie blockbuster, full of froth, bells and whistles, but ultimately empty
It's great if you like shiny things, but there ain't a lot of meat on dem bones!
Shift certainly divided opinion when these kinds of effects were first introduced, but I liked them, even if they were a little OTT. Being able to dial them up or down in more recent titles is very welcome.
It's tricky discussing the relative merits of a game in isolation without also considering others in the genre. How else can comparisons be drawn? How else can we contextualise what we mean?
The key is to keep discussion civil and constructive before it degenerates into illiterate flame wars.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
More than a few? Trying to get a clean lap while going balls out through the downhill choke was my white whale.
Assume so, and I was going to try it...
Car sputtered and coasted down to 6mph, much like it does in previous games with a destroyed engine, but it had no revs and didn't respond to throttle input. For some reason I hit the brakes though, and then I was stranded.
Just think: It wasn't me who hit you for a change.
Mascot, have you played the Need For Speed Shift games last gen?
They tried to do the whole "visceral" car racing experience thing. What did you think of it?
FM6 does feel quite clinical compared to arcade racers, but I guess that's what they think the fans want from this series.
I enjoyed the demo. I think the sense of speed in the Indy car was great.
But I didn't instantly fall in love with it like I did Horizon 2.
Oh well, still have the ultimate edition pre ordered so I'll leave judgment until the full game releases next week.
They tried to do the whole "visceral" car racing experience thing. What did you think of it?
FM6 does feel quite clinical compared to arcade racers, but I guess that's what they think the fans want from this series.
I enjoyed the demo. I think the sense of speed in the Indy car was great.
But I didn't instantly fall in love with it like I did Horizon 2.
Oh well, still have the ultimate edition pre ordered so I'll leave judgment until the full game releases next week.
See a couple of posts up.
Whoops. I'm on my phone and didn't refresh to see that post when I started typing mine.
I saw some very good examples of actual user quirks with drivatars when on wet Sebring.
While on unbeatable I was chasing up to the top 3 and the one in 3rd tried taking 2nd on the inside, hit a puddle while doing so and flew off the track. I also saw a couple of AIs diving in the corner faster wide, while not braking enough and go onto grass.
Unfortunately though, on lower difficulties, it seems they just take corners slower, albeit with worse lines. For example, I often could overtake a group by taking inside and just clipping the apex.
Yay!
Boo!
Hopefully Drivatar behaviour will get increasingly refined as more data is farmed from actual players. It seems T10 can introduce their own tweaks to the data too (based on the 'aggression' variable, for example) so they might be able to add their own revisions.
I really need to try and spend some more time with this demo, but it's logistically problematic at the moment.
lighthouse777
Member
just change the drivatar , you can make them more aggressive
and I believe turn10 said they the drivatars are just learning
so what you do, when your drivatar shows up in the wild will be what you have been doing.. if you do tight turns when you are playing so will your drivatar etc
you are playing or will be playing against others drivitars
eso76
Member
It's all in the (still a little lacking) body roll.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Using the zoom/overscan function on my TV to get a closer cockpit view. So much better. Why can't we have a damn fov slider?
Oh and bumper cams in the replays again?
Oh and bumper cams in the replays again?
ResidentDante
Member
I know, but PCars is far more relevant comparison game on consoles. It's very much in the vain of what Forza and GT do.
I get people like all these dramatic effects when racing, but for a more sim like racer I prefer it to be no more than the Shift/PCars style blurring and camera turning. The extra dramatic effects from games like Driveclub just seem more fitting for semi-arcade racers, where it is mainly a graphical show to pull people in.
The overlooked fact of DC running at 30fps is really underplayed by it's blatantly obvious fanboys. Really fast cars, and a lot of speed really need 60fps imo. Even old arcade racers like Daytona and Ridge Racer had that back in the arcades of the 90's. The sense of control just gets heightened when you have the fast framerate to back it up. Top end graphics and fancy effects are just stupid arguments against games like Forza and PCars, when they clearly are aiming at delivering something different.
This is all console mind you, the PC games have (usually) the luxury of having top end graphics and 60 fps.
Its one of my pet peeves about Forza is the lack of cockpit view options. You would think after evaluating DC they would have at least considered the inside the car dashcam. Its the perfect view for racing with wheel.
Which bring me to my other complaint. DC has full steering wheel rotation animation. Its kind of annoying that Forza only animates 180 dergrees. You get use to it but when using a wheel its jarring to see the wheel on the screen stop while your turning in upwards of 900 degrees.
transformer
Member
After a couple of hours of playtime with the demo, my brief impressions:
- Graphics are fantastic. Many improvements over F5 to include larger grids, better smoke/particle effects, tweaked lighting, and still maintaining a rock solid 60fps. In the console space, I think this is the best looking racing game when considering the whole package (frame rate, resolution, track/car details, sense of speed, etc.). I'm sure there will be the obligatory screenshots that look pretty bad, but in motion this game is solid.
- Rain/Night. I was surprisingly impressed with the rain effects and how they translate visually and with game play. While not dynamic, the overall experience is very unique and well done. I actually had fun racing in the rain and I usually don't in games. Night, a welcome addition but didn't really grab me. Grip levels felt very unrealistically low on the one track I raced.
- AI. I need more time to fully assess, but they are definitely faster than F5 as I have to knock the difficulty down a notch or two to be where I was at in F5.
-Rio. This is a great addition IMO. The first few turns are rather mundane, but from the tunnel onward it is one heck of a circuit. The narrowing track and elevation changes into a tight left hand turn is rather epic when just doing rivals mode. Taking that with a pack of cars will be quite an experience. The latter parts of the track have an interesting flow as well and the danger of losing it into the tire walls or concrete walls.
-Mods. I probably won't use these that often and I'm glad it is an optional thing.
- Graphics are fantastic. Many improvements over F5 to include larger grids, better smoke/particle effects, tweaked lighting, and still maintaining a rock solid 60fps. In the console space, I think this is the best looking racing game when considering the whole package (frame rate, resolution, track/car details, sense of speed, etc.). I'm sure there will be the obligatory screenshots that look pretty bad, but in motion this game is solid.
- Rain/Night. I was surprisingly impressed with the rain effects and how they translate visually and with game play. While not dynamic, the overall experience is very unique and well done. I actually had fun racing in the rain and I usually don't in games. Night, a welcome addition but didn't really grab me. Grip levels felt very unrealistically low on the one track I raced.
- AI. I need more time to fully assess, but they are definitely faster than F5 as I have to knock the difficulty down a notch or two to be where I was at in F5.
-Rio. This is a great addition IMO. The first few turns are rather mundane, but from the tunnel onward it is one heck of a circuit. The narrowing track and elevation changes into a tight left hand turn is rather epic when just doing rivals mode. Taking that with a pack of cars will be quite an experience. The latter parts of the track have an interesting flow as well and the danger of losing it into the tire walls or concrete walls.
-Mods. I probably won't use these that often and I'm glad it is an optional thing.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Yeah the 180° animation is rubbish.
I could understand back before Fanatec released the first 900° wheel but ever since then it's shit. Either remove the wheel and arms or update things. Yeah even better a dash view. There seems to be a lot of little things that never really improve.
I could understand back before Fanatec released the first 900° wheel but ever since then it's shit. Either remove the wheel and arms or update things. Yeah even better a dash view. There seems to be a lot of little things that never really improve.
soundscream
Member
SarBear was just upset he had to drive a Chevy.
Diablohead
Member
I wish forza could be modded somehow, someone out there would create some amazing replay angles.
As for FOV slider I remember using the multiscreen trick in forza 3 to bring the camera closer to the dash by lowering the FOV, it worked really well... and then they removed it from every other forza game.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
They could keep the current replay and just call it an action cam. Proper TV style replays would go a long way to enjoying the replays, it's not like they can't draw inspiration from the real thing. Those wide, lingering shots might not look exciting for many gamers but it's what we're used to seeing on TV.
Anyone know if there's the old triple-screen FOV trick in the full game? That might help.
Edit: beaten by Diablohead on a new page.
Psyrgery ES
Member
I understand Mascot's point in comparing these two gifs.
Nevertheless, the Indy Car race was something I have not witnessed before.
That was dayum impressive. I though people here were being too hyperbolic. Alas, they weren't!
Nevertheless, the Indy Car race was something I have not witnessed before.
That was dayum impressive. I though people here were being too hyperbolic. Alas, they weren't!
Do we have proof it was me going backwards? :-I
Diablohead
Member
forza 5 locked multiscreen away for dev use only, sadly, and I guess it's the same for forza 6 :/
soundscream
Member
Yes I choose your car when I reviewed the replay to see who ruined my race, I was in second or third at the time. I might still have it saved.
I wondered this after I got lucky on a spin and it gave me 1mil credits. Helios?
Nope, just the Ford GT
I guess there might be more FoV options or adjustable seat positions available in the full game. Options are often limited in demos. Or maybe changing the view from the tested presets might jeopardise the framerate, and that's why they are locked?
TylerDurden4321
Member
just my 2 cents here on the demo:
- Tyres feel better than in FM5
Turning all assists off and going full throttle from the starting line feels like the few hundredth of a second that you get real grip before the free spinning kicks in and lasts until surface-to-tyre-rotation speeds have closed in enough to stop the spinning are a lot closer to real life in FM6.
Through the FFB it feels like tyres are also more "rubbery" at higher slip and air-pillow'ish on bumps (pretty sure it's not the suspension that gives me that feel).
- The Impreza's AWD-system feels improved. Compared to GT6 and real world lap times, AWD cars with complicated slip-differential systems were always off in Forza (way slower, like center differentials are "fixed"/non-variable). I'm gonna compare times between FM5 and FM6 once the game is out.
- Driving in the wet gave me the one or other "holy shit!"-giggle, but I feel like in the long term it will become more "gimicky", while the less revolutionary night racing will become something I do almost as often as normal day-time racing in Forza. I hope for some great wet-race challenges from the "stories of motorsport" campaign section.
Sounds in the wet were spot on and great, with the exception of brake-lockup... that sounds a little weird to me, but I still get the necessary feedback to react, which is more important to me.
- The FFB took a few laps to get used to but then felt better in a "more like a real car and not a sensory-feedback system design to help you improve your lap times". Not sure about the "bump"-option though. I will probably turn that off, just like the music (then menu music was ok imo).
- I don't care too much about graphics as long as the racing and physics are good, but AA and DOF seemed improved to the right degree for me.
- Edit: A.I. is more aggressive in a less idiot-drivatar way, also seems harder at the same skill level than in FM5. I like it so far.
That being said, my hype could be bigger, but I'd already be happy with just "more FM5".
One last gripe: Still just "TCS on" or "TCS off" ? No settings?? No differences in traction control and ABS between cars?
(
That can't be so hard to do and all the other sims are doing it.
Question: What is "File" in the leaderboards?
- Tyres feel better than in FM5
Turning all assists off and going full throttle from the starting line feels like the few hundredth of a second that you get real grip before the free spinning kicks in and lasts until surface-to-tyre-rotation speeds have closed in enough to stop the spinning are a lot closer to real life in FM6.
Through the FFB it feels like tyres are also more "rubbery" at higher slip and air-pillow'ish on bumps (pretty sure it's not the suspension that gives me that feel).
- The Impreza's AWD-system feels improved. Compared to GT6 and real world lap times, AWD cars with complicated slip-differential systems were always off in Forza (way slower, like center differentials are "fixed"/non-variable). I'm gonna compare times between FM5 and FM6 once the game is out.
- Driving in the wet gave me the one or other "holy shit!"-giggle, but I feel like in the long term it will become more "gimicky", while the less revolutionary night racing will become something I do almost as often as normal day-time racing in Forza. I hope for some great wet-race challenges from the "stories of motorsport" campaign section.
Sounds in the wet were spot on and great, with the exception of brake-lockup... that sounds a little weird to me, but I still get the necessary feedback to react, which is more important to me.
- The FFB took a few laps to get used to but then felt better in a "more like a real car and not a sensory-feedback system design to help you improve your lap times". Not sure about the "bump"-option though. I will probably turn that off, just like the music (then menu music was ok imo).
- I don't care too much about graphics as long as the racing and physics are good, but AA and DOF seemed improved to the right degree for me.
- Edit: A.I. is more aggressive in a less idiot-drivatar way, also seems harder at the same skill level than in FM5. I like it so far.
That being said, my hype could be bigger, but I'd already be happy with just "more FM5".
One last gripe: Still just "TCS on" or "TCS off" ? No settings?? No differences in traction control and ABS between cars?
( That can't be so hard to do and all the other sims are doing it.
Question: What is "File" in the leaderboards?
Bobnob
Member
Yeah i should of really edited that post, IF WORKS AS ADVERTISED, lol
All i've seen from you is flip flopping all over the shop,cherry picking, if there's one things i learnt from pcars its to keep expectations down.And all them features i mentioned would make forza better if it worked.
Diablohead
Member
AI cars taking a shallow corner too fast and driving off without attempting using the brakes has been in forza since the original, case in point... M. Rossi
I hate how music is ON or OFF too, what if I wanted to raise it a little bit? or lower it a little to hear the engine better? nope.
I hate how music is ON or OFF too, what if I wanted to raise it a little bit? or lower it a little to hear the engine better? nope.