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[UrbanRats]

Yep, his earlier games are fucking good, in my book they just got shittier and shittier after MGS3, don't get me wrong, I still love MGS4 today but that was his real foot slipping off the edge. His actual downfall happened when PW and MGSV happened. I love the gameplay of MGSV but fuck me, I haven't EVER been this depressed at a lack of story before. Seriously my reaction to the story in the game was and is literally.

Seriously, I was mega, super, nuclear excited for MGSV'S story and now I've completed it I have no urge to play anymore, when I do I just fuck about killing sheep with petrol bombs and wonder what the fuck happened.

More than Kojima being Kojima went wrong with this game.
I mean it feels like half the game got cut, it just doesn't make any sense.

He probably bit more than he could chew, and then the Konami fall out, he probably had to resize major elements of the game.

Obviously i don't know what the fuck happened, but the game feels like they had a plan and, half way through, someone pulled the rug from under them and they had to patch it together with what they had and ship it.

 

[Caim]

Ah ok

Anyway can anyone tell me where to find this?

After which mission is this said?

I think this is after you do the mission where you defend Mother Base from an invasion and it turned out to be some of your old soldiers who weren't around when the old MB went down.

 

[KarmaCow]

Ah ok

Anyway can anyone tell me where to find this?

After which mission is this said?

I think that's after 22, the scripted FOB invasion that tries to integrate the real ones into the main story. It's part of the explanation of why the guy invades because he thought Big Boss destroyed Mother Base.

 

[Berserker976]

11. She does, and in doing so removes the threat of the virus and essentially ends her own life, for reasons that make complete sense and were shown step by step through the game. The player, like Venom, is left with the pain of losing her. The plot arc leaves no threads hanging.

Nah, she doesn't end her own life. The vocal cord parasites have no way of killing her. They kill people by destroying their lungs and she has no lungs to destroy. She doesn't leave to go die, she leaves because she's now a walking biological weapon.

 

[KOMANI]

Nah, she doesn't end her own life. The vocal cord parasites have no way of killing her. They kill people by destroying their lungs and she has no lungs to destroy. She doesn't leave to go die, she leaves because she's now a walking biological weapon.

Like Solid Snake... Before Foxalive... What a stupid name, FoxLife rolls out better than FoxAlive

 

[Griss]

Nah, she doesn't end her own life. The vocal cord parasites have no way of killing her. They kill people by destroying their lungs and she has no lungs to destroy. She doesn't leave to go die, she leaves because she's now a walking biological weapon.

Wait, what? That sounds correct, but everything in that scene points to her not wanting to speak, and the only reason that could be in the circumstance is because she's be harming herself. That's how it's portrayed.

We never see or hear from her again... surely she died?

 

[Xpike]

Like Solid Snake... Before Foxalive... What a stupid name, FoxLife rolls out better than FoxAlive

what?

Solid Snake's Foxdie got overridden by another Foxdie, Foxalive was just the computer virus that shut down the Patriots' Ai.

 

[Venom Fox]

More than Kojima being Kojima went wrong with this game.
I mean it feels like half the game got cut, it just doesn't make any sense.

He probably bit more than he could chew, and then the Konami fall out, he probably had to resize major elements of the game.

Obviously i don't know what the fuck happened, but the game feels like they had a plan and, half way through, someone pulled the rug from under them and they had to patch it together with what they had and ship it.

Yeah, it definitely feels that way, it's a shame two of my most hyped games this generation have had nearly the same treatment.

It's really baffling and upsetting for me, I grew up with MGS, we used to play MGS1 in the playground as kids and we'd fight over who got to be Solid Snake and sneak past everyone round the climbing frames. It's a shame it had to end on a whimper and not the bang it was made out to be.

 

[ponpo]

Is Quiet even a "walking biological weapon"? Didn't Code Talker say you needed prolonged speech to get the infection going? And Skullface said a few words wouldn't hurt. She didn't even speak that much.

Also good model swap

 

[Venom Fox]

I think that's after 22, the scripted FOB invasion that tries to integrate the real ones into the main story. It's part of the explanation of why the guy invades because he thought Big Boss destroyed Mother Base.

Jesus, I mustn't have been reading the subtitles when that scene played. Fuck Kojima was as subtle as a sledgehammer when it came to hiding the "twist".

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I liked the concept of eliminating languages. That's one unique part of the story I liked. That whole concept of taking someone's language and what it means/is used for.

 

[Alo0oy]

I haven't read anything in the spoiler threads so far, but from what I heard in the OT, you guys don't like the events of TPP very much.

I don't really mind the "whitewashing" of Big Boss, it was always apparent that Kojima preferred Big Boss, for a good reason too, since he's a better character than Solid Snake, so he should be the real "protagonist", Solid Snake was always a pawn and wouldn't have made it anywhere without Ocelot or Big Boss having his back. He was doing The Patriots' bidding from the start.

I have problems with other plot elements, but I'm perfectly fine with the way they handled Big Boss, him being a villain never made sense anyway.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

I think that's after 22, the scripted FOB invasion that tries to integrate the real ones into the main story. It's part of the explanation of why the guy invades because he thought Big Boss destroyed Mother Base.

Does the vocal parasites through COPULATION infect people via walkie-talkies? As long as she remained quiet, why couldn't she stick around? And, Big Boss is alive when she's on the walkie-talkie, so is he now infected? I kind of like the idea of her last scenes (even though I found no emotion in them because she had no character at all because, God forbid they bothered giving most of these characters personalities), but I was really confused by it at the time.

 

[Berserker976]

Wait, what? That sounds correct, but everything in that scene points to her not wanting to speak, and the only reason that could be in the circumstance is because she's be harming herself. That's how it's portrayed.

We never see or hear from her again... surely she died?

Nnnnnnnope. She just can't really interact with anyone ever again. So, not really a happy ending, but, it's better than dead.

In fact, since she was so packed with good parasites, she probably outlives everyone in the series.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Jesus, I mustn't have been reading the subtitles when that scene played. Fuck Kojima was as subtle as a sledgehammer when it came to hiding the "twist".

Connecting that line with the twist is a bit hard to do without retrospect (if you didn't know).

The thing that sold me on it was The Boss AI Pod and Huey doubting it was Snake, although Ocelot's lines in the prologue were super heavy handed too ("Get used to your new self", who says that without it meaning something else?)

 

[Finalow]

Wait, what? That sounds correct, but everything in that scene points to her not wanting to speak, and the only reason that could be in the circumstance is because she's be harming herself. That's how it's portrayed.

We never see or hear from her again... surely she died?

she doesn't die (there), she just leaves.

I think that her story also had potential, but between the random cutscenes with tits&ass and the stupidity of the whole thing you just never see that potential come to life.

 

[KarmaCow]

Wait, what? That sounds correct, but everything in that scene points to her not wanting to speak, and the only reason that could be in the circumstance is because she's be harming herself. That's how it's portrayed.

We never see or hear from her again... surely she died?

I believe she was always basically a ticking time bomb for the English parasite strain setup by Skull Face to take out Big Boss (and Cipher as well I guess) but through the story Quiet forgoes her plan because she thinks Big Boss is a pretty cool dude like everyone else for some reason.

Also she can subsist off sunlight and water, just like Code Talker and The End before them so she doesn't have to die.

 

[Xpike]

I haven't read anything in the spoiler threads so far, but from what I heard in the OT, you guys don't like the events of TPP very much.

I don't really mind the "whitewashing" of Big Boss, it was always apparent that Kojima preferred Big Boss, for a good reason too, since he's a better character than Solid Snake, so he should be the real "protagonist", Solid Snake was always a pawn and wouldn't have made it anywhere without Ocelot or Big Boss having his back. He was doing The Patriots' bidding from the start.

I have problems with other plot elements, but I'm perfectly fine with the way they handled Big Boss, him being a villain never made sense anyway.

psst hey big boss is still a villian, he just goes off to do it offscreen while his old mates take the heat for him

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The 9's and 10's came from the gameplay. Nearly every single one of the outlets that reviewed it said they either didn't "get" the plot or "The story wasn't there".

The complaints about the story can't be that bad if they won't dock points significantly. 8s and 7s would clean up avoidable story missteps.

 

[Severance]

I really thought the concept of vocal chord parasites was clever. I liked Skull Face a lot as a villain, although I think that has more to do with Ground Zeroes then Phantom Pain. I even enjoyed the "WHOOOOOO!!!" moment. Skull Face did not get enough screen time in Phantom Pain, such a shame.

I like the Venom twist. It shows that Big Boss is a manipulative bastard and is willing to put others in harm's way to protect himself. I only wish it happened much earlier in the game, it would've been interesting to deal with the fallout and maybe get some dialog from Big Boss. The reveal came way too late, I thought it was rather obvious you weren't actually playing as Big Boss. My early theory was you were playing as some throwaway clone from Les Enfants Terrible, so not far off. That actually would've been better than Big Medic. Anyway I'm trying to focus on the positive here, Venom is cool with me!

 

[fastmower]

I haven't read anything in the spoiler threads so far, but from what I heard in the OT, you guys don't like the events of TPP very much.

I don't really mind the "whitewashing" of Big Boss, it was always apparent that Kojima preferred Big Boss, for a good reason too, since he's a better character than Solid Snake, so he should be the real "protagonist", Solid Snake was always a pawn and wouldn't have made it anywhere without Ocelot or Big Boss having his back. He was doing The Patriots' bidding from the start.

I have problems with other plot elements, but I'm perfectly fine with the way they handled Big Boss, him being a villain never made sense anyway.

Uuuummmmmm. You do realize the game isn't a about big boss...

 

[KarmaCow]

Jesus, I mustn't have been reading the subtitles when that scene played. Fuck Kojima was as subtle as a sledgehammer when it came to hiding the "twist".

I don't think that was meant to be a breadcrumb for the twist, just a way to setup that there are other PFs just like Diamond Dogs who can invade you. That line in particular doesn't make sense in retrospect since Big Boss really didn't blow up OG Mother Base.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

The complaints about the story can't be that bad if they won't dock points significantly. 8s and 7s would clean up avoidable story missteps.

I don't think many professional reviewers care too much about the overarching MGS story line, and how this one fits into the canon.

 

[Finalow]

The 9's and 10's came from the gameplay. Nearly every single one of the outlets that reviewed it said they either didn't "get" the plot or "The story wasn't there".

that would have been (maybe) fine if the story was the only problem here.

sadly, it isn't, not even close. so in hindsight all those 9/10 or 10/10 are just ridiculous.

but hey, welcome to gaming journalism.

 

[Xpike]

that thing about solid snake being always a pawn ignores the multiple times the Patriots say his mere presence in Big Shell was never intended and then how he took down the Patriots no thanks to Ocelot's incredibly shitty plan which would've involved taking down modern society

 

[Alo0oy]

Uuuummmmmm. You do realize the game isn't a about big boss...

I know.

Big Boss only shows up at the end (and beginning).

 

[jg4xchamp]

I'm far more annoyed by the repeating missions and structure of chapter 2 than the story. It blows, no big deal to me. Don't think highly of video game stories and I think even less of those in metal gear usually.

But a game that plays this well padding out its final run and even those 7 missions are through areas I've been through already? So fucking bullshit. Just give me my fucking missions to progress the game, and not straight up filler like go do 12 missions you already beat on a higher difficulty. Or do 100+ side ops which got pointless by say side op 40, and grind out this mother base shit.

What the fuck? The first 31 missions built up so well to that duel with that gundam, and then chapter 2 is like lolsikegodobitchwork:

 

[Ōkami]

Kind of wish that Quiet had more costumes, something like this.

I dunno, magical girl Quiet could be pretty funny.

It's not as if I can use her anymore so, whatev.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

that thing about solid snake being always a pawn ignores the multiple times the Patriots say his mere presence in Big Shell was never intended and then how he took down the Patriots no thanks to Ocelot's incredibly shitty plan which would've involved taking down modern society

Snake is a pawn in every controllable moment sans Tanker in MGS2.

MGS2 Snake is the best rendition of the "Snake" character in any game. Ishmael in this game comes close but his very limited screen time obviously prevents that.

Legendary heroes seem cooler when they're out of your control.

 

[fastmower]

I'm far more annoyed by the repeating missions and structure of chapter 2 than the story. It blows, no big deal to me. Don't think highly of video game stories and I think even less of those in metal gear usually.

But a game that plays this well padding out its final run and even those 7 missions are through areas I've been through already? So fucking bullshit. Just give me my fucking missions to progress the game, and not straight up filler like go do 12 missions you already beat on a higher difficulty. Or do 100+ side ops which got pointless by say side op 40, and grind out this mother base shit.

What the fuck? The first 31 missions built up so well to that duel with that gundam, and then chapter 2 is like lolsikegodobitchwork:

Even chapter 1 has a lot of bitchwork. It's like half filler.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

I feel like the more I think about this game, the more I forget. Was Psycho Mantis working for Skullface at all? If so, he was working with Skullface and Man on Fire at the same time. So, why couldn't Eli join both of them? Can Psycho Mantis not multitask? And, why again is Eli's child angst more powerful or potent than that of a man who got hit by lightning on a tank and catch on fire? If I put my kid to sleep without dessert, will he grow up to hate me and be led by a John Edwards-esque psychic?

Lmao, please let a mod tag that.

Thank you! I know my Johnny Carson.

 

[Alo0oy]

psst hey big boss is still a villian, he just goes off to do it offscreen while his old mates take the heat for him

Not really, he was only "a villain" to the Patriots. His Phantom was the villain in MG1 and in MG2 Solid Snake was fooled into thinking Big Boss was a villain.

 

[PensivePen]

Not really, he was only "a villain" to the Patriots. His Phantom was the villain in MG1 and in MG2 Solid Snake was fooled into thinking Big Boss was a villain.

Big Boss in Metal Gear 2 is a man who intentionally creates conflict and war so that he can create war-orphans who he funnels into his army, and into the next war. He's not a good man.

 

[fastmower]

I feel like the more I think about this game, the more I forget. Was Psycho Mantis working for Skullface at all? If so, he was working with Skullface and Man on Fire at the same time. So, why couldn't Eli join both of them? Can Psycho Mantis not multitask? And, why again is Eli's child angst more powerful or potent than that of a man who got hit by lightning on a tank and catch on fire? If I put my kid to sleep without dessert, will he grow up to hate me and be led by a John Edwards-esque psychic?



Thank you! I know my Johnny Carson.

He's a floating plot device that makes barely any logical sense.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Not really, he was only "a villain" to the Patriots. His Phantom was the villain in MG1 and in MG2 Solid Snake was fooled into thinking Big Boss was a villain.

Nah, he's pretty bad.

Clearly a jaded villain, but still a villain. I could actually see the Boss from the end of Peace Walker and the one we see in GZ and (mostly hear) in TPP turning into this guy.

 

[Ran rp]

Well, I can't say for sure how much influence the other writers had on the story. But even going back to MGS1 other people besides Kojima have been influencing the game's storylines in big ways.
http://metagearsolid.org/reports_mgs1_thanksshinkawa.html

shinkawa da god

 

[Xpike]

Snake is a pawn in every controllable moment sans Tanker in MGS2.

MGS2 Snake is the best rendition of the "Snake" character in any game. Ishmael in this game comes close but his very limited screen time obviously prevents that.

Legendary heroes seem cooler when they're out of your control.

Snake creates his own destiny, that's the whole point of his character. The Patriots and Big Boss both though they could control him and they both ended up getting destroyed by him.

 

[KarmaCow]

I feel like the more I think about this game, the more I forget. Was Psycho Mantis working for Skullface at all? If so, he was working with Skullface and Man on Fire at the same time. So, why couldn't Eli join both of them? Can Psycho Mantis not multitask? And, why again is Eli's child angst more powerful or potent than that of a man who got hit by lightning on a tank and catch on fire? If I put my kid to sleep without dessert, will he grow up to hate me and be led by a John Edwards-esque psychic?

Mantis is a revenge genie, he goes to whoever is holding the biggest grudge. He doesn't really "work" for anyone since he has no free will of his own, the person who currently has the most pent up rage gets Mantis to make their desires manifest. He's drawn to Eli because they're both kids and Eli is also super angsty about his clone dad.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Mantis is a revenge genie, he goes to whoever is holding the biggest grudge. He doesn't really "work" for anyone since he has no free will of his own, the person who currently has the most pent up rage gets Mantis to make their desires manifest. He's drawn to Eli because they're both kids and Eli is also super angsty about his clone dad.

Why doesn't he every buddy up with Miller? He seems to be fairly angry and filled with lust for revenge.

Maybe it was the parasites.

Email me if you want a parasite. Post a comment to my webzone if you want a parasite.

 

[Ran rp]

solid snake > big boss

 

[KarmaCow]

Not really, he was only "a villain" to the Patriots. His Phantom was the villain in MG1 and in MG2 Solid Snake was fooled into thinking Big Boss was a villain.

Big Boss is building Outer Haven during the events of this game and still runs it from the outside in MG1 with Venom as a pawn. MG2 is even worse when he's not even hiding. If anything, the whole Venom stuff is worse because we don't see Big Boss's corruption and downfall.

 

[aly]

I feel like the more I think about this game, the more I forget. Was Psycho Mantis working for Skullface at all? If so, he was working with Skullface and Man on Fire at the same time. So, why couldn't Eli join both of them? Can Psycho Mantis not multitask? And, why again is Eli's child angst more powerful or potent than that of a man who got hit by lightning on a tank and catch on fire? If I put my kid to sleep without dessert, will he grow up to hate me and be led by a John Edwards-esque psychic?

Mantis is a poor innocent child with no control who is attracted to negative emotions, but bonds more easily with kids. Although, why he never caught on to Miller is confusing.

 

[fastmower]

Why doesn't he every buddy up with Miller? He seems to be fairly angry and filled with lust for revenge.

Maybe it was the parasites.

Email me if you want a parasite. Post a comment to my webzone if you want a parasite.

Miller starts losing his lust for revenge once he starts working on production of the worlds tastiest burger.

 

[Soulflarz]

Mantis is a poor innocent child with no control who is attracted to negative emotions, but bonds more easily with kids. Although, why he never caught on to Miller is confusing.

We call these conveniences.

 

[Alo0oy]

Nah, he's pretty bad.

Clearly a jaded villain, but still a villain. I could actually see the Boss from the end of Peace Walker and the one we see in GZ and (mostly hear) in TPP turning into this guy.

I'm at work so I can't watch that, but I'm pretty sure half of that was retconned, Solid Snake was basically doing The Patriots' bidding.

 

[Ran rp]

If anything, the whole Venom stuff is worse because we don't see Big Boss's corruption and downfall.

this is what I wanted to see

this is what i was hyped for

the plot of MGSV means almost nothing to me now

 

[fastmower]

We call these conveniences.

See my explanation above your comment...

 

[Ran rp]

at least the game gave us lust for revenge and giggles 'n the rain

 

[KarmaCow]

To be fair, the only time Mantis is close to Miller is when Eli is sitting across from him, bubbling with daddy issues.

 

[PensivePen]

Why doesn't he every buddy up with Miller? He seems to be fairly angry and filled with lust for revenge.

Maybe it was the parasites.

Email me if you want a parasite. Post a comment to my webzone if you want a parasite.

At least we didn't have to see young Liquid Snake meeting baby Sniper Wolf and Vulcan Raven.