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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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I can't believe how much of a fanboy Ocelot is about Big Boss. How did that start? Mutual respect after Operation Snake Eater?

Ocelot is The Boss' son (who knows if he knows) and yeah it happens throughout MGS3, not just after. Guy never had any real allegiance, and was raised by The Philosophers.

MGS4 Act 3 is trash, I don't think that was "finished" either. Final is just boss fights too, the level itself just seems unfinished again, like there should be more.

MGS4 gameplay systems were pretty good overall but there wasn't all that much to play them in, you have a million different weapons but what of it? MGSV is like the opposite now. you have a million different weapons and can actually use them all,

Exactly. I'll take MGSV any day
 
People are harping about how Mission 46 just pops out of nowhere and it goes, "welp, that's the end". There's literally no build-up to it. 43 to 46 is just a jumbled mess. You kill a bunch of your men in the quarantine facility, the famous ashes scene happens and then (if you don't take the Butterfly emblem off) it jumps straight to 46 where you're in the hospital again. It is not a good transition at all, right there between 46 and 43 is clearly missing content.

Then there's the fact that Code Talker says, "Eyes on Kazuhira" implying there's something fishy going on with him that doesn't get resolved at all. And we already know Mission 51 got cut so Eli and Mantis go unresolved (officially). And there's still some other MB stuff I'm likely forgetting that went unresolved as well.

Quiet's mission even likely comes too soon as well as, again, it doesn't lead into 46 at all. They clearly cut a lot of build-up/pacing missions that lead to 46 and then the aftermath of 46 is Eli's stuff.

The way I see it, Chapter 2 would have been something like:

43
44 - Some mission goes here that builds upon what 43 set up
45 - Continues
46 - Continues
47 - Continues
48 - Something happens with Kaz here (or after completing 48 or maybe this is where Quiet's mission goes)
49 - Do a mission here to resolve Kaz (maybe this hints towards you not being the real BB)
50 - Truth
51 - Eli

And if there was intended to be a chapter 3, then it would be 51 is the start of Eli's stuff and it goes to about 55 or 60 with the last mission being what we saw in the CE.

43 to 46 is not paced right and to be honest, neither is the entirety of Chapter 2. A lot was definitely cut, no question about it. Especially when you can just complete side-ops to advance the story after you've completed one of the new story missions on offer.

There's also a whole bunch of random motherbase cutscenes that just don't gel together at all. I went from the scene where Quiet jumps in after the necklace and gets burned, to dancing in the rain, to getting tortured.
 
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Sigh...

So for some reason, Miller turns on Big Boss and tries to help Foxhound, but Liquid kills him and assumes his place in MGS. Why and when this happens, we don't know, and why does Liquid recruit or trust Ocelot?

Eli runs off with a Metal Gear, but we don't know what happens to that Metal Gear, or why Liquid waits more than a decade to do anything.

Ocelot tells miller about zero's plan at some time. This pisses miller off more than he's ever been I think and he tells ocelot that big boss can go to hell and he will support V and david to send him there (more revenge).
Ocelot remarks that eventually there will be only room for one BB, and one day BB's sons will have to face each other as well and on that day, if miller is supporting one son, ocelot will support the other and thus might have to face off against each other as well.

Miller then gets assassinated 3 days before shadow moses happens, assassinated by someone extremely skilled, it's never explained who exactly, but judging by the descripion of how skilled the person had to be, it was either Liquid himself or Ocelot.

What happens to eli and sally you can see in episode 51 on youtube.

Whole photosynthesis reason was bullshit due to Codetalker and the Skulls wearing clothing. And, well, just how it was written and designed. She could have been wearing the XOF uniform and be fine.

Codetalker obviously still uses his lungs, quiet breathes through her skin, clothing suffocates her.
 
Peace Walker at least had you finish the main arc, grind, finish the secret/true ending, ~fin. Because of its more freeform nature, MGSV has you finish Chapter 1, bait you into playing, climaxes with the massacre of Mother Base that kinda feels like the ending of Chapter 2 despite not actually being that, leaves you hanging to grind missions until you unlock TRUTH, which is the real ending but also just boots you straight into a totally disconnected "here's the end" mission rather than seamless flow of events, and then you have to grind for or seek out the Quiet mission too. Which also has its own unique credits. It's just weird.

I'd also be wary of taking data mined content as anything truly factual of important stuff cut. I'm firmly in the camp that MGSV is "unfinished", in the sense that they intended for more and planned other stuff that couldn't meet the deadline. But pretty much every game has shit buried in the files, some of yes cut due to time, other stuff because it didn't work and they scrapped it outright, leftover references in the code to outdated material, etc.

EDIT: I can't even believe they're being compared. If MGS4 satisfied you narratively (and even I will admit it did end the series) that's fine, but it's a world apart in play from MGSV. It doesn't embrace the design and play anywhere near as consistently and full as MGSV.
 
I can't believe how much of a fanboy Ocelot is about Big Boss. How did that start? Mutual respect after Operation Snake Eater?
Why is Ocelot even in the game? He's only there to serve as a foil to Kaz. This is the man who always has ulterior motives, plays every side, was one of the original members of the most powerful organization on earth, and in this game he's training dogs and wrestling kids.
 
Question: what does everyone want to see from the next MGS game (because there will be one) considering what this game has dumped on us?

Edit: I mean story-wise

I'm firmly in the camp that MGSV is "unfinished", in the sense that they intended for more and planned other stuff that couldn't meet the deadline. But pretty much every game has shit buried in the files, some of yes cut due to time, other stuff because it didn't work and they scrapped it outright, leftover references in the code to outdated material, etc.

EDIT: I can't even believe they're being compared. If MGS4 satisfied you narratively (and even I will admit it did end the series) that's fine, but it's a world apart in play from MGSV. It doesn't embrace the design and play anywhere near as consistently and full as MGSV.
This is ridiculous concerning how gigantic the game is as is but it has to be true. Somewhere along the line someone got over-ambitious.
 
Why is Ocelot even in the game? He's only there to serve as a foil to Kaz. This is the man who always has ulterior motives, plays every side, was one of the original members of the most powerful organization on earth, and in this game he's training dogs and wrestling kids.

He's also reading Wikipedia to you.
 

Out of all these 3 its funny that Portable Ops, the worst game, probably does the best job at actually showing that link.

- Shows how Big Boss gets the exact idea for Outer Heaven: Check
- Shows how Big Boss gets the funds to create Outer Heaven: Check
- Shows how Big Boss establishes himself in FOXHOUND, with it maintaining its consistency with the post-game Snake Eater timeline: Check

I mean there you go. In a pre-MGS4 world that right there is 'working as advertised'. And then before the curtains close it commits the sin of starting the MGS3 cast as Patriots meme.
 
Question: what does everyone want to see from the next MGS game (because there will be one) considering what this game has dumped on us?

Same gameplay, but a more present and active story. While this game is among my top three favorite MGS games, there's a lot to be desired in the narrative. Also, I'd like to see more stuff happen in the open world. Multiple factions and optional places to explore and find hidden intel/data would be great.
 
Out of all these 3 its funny that Portable Ops, the worst game, probably does the best job at actually showing that link.

- Shows how Big Boss gets the exact idea for Outer Heaven: Check
- Shows how Big Boss gets the funds to create Outer Heaven: Check
- Shows how Big Boss establishes himself in FOXHOUND, with it maintaining its consistency with the post-game Snake Eater timeline: Check

I mean there you go. In a pre-MGS4 world that right there is 'working as advertised'. And then before the curtains close it commits the sin of starting the MGS3 cast as Patriots meme.

I didn't play PO, but i remember that, for me, the moment where i felt the series had officially jumped the shark, was when they revealed paramedic and Sigint and those folks being the Patriots.
Like, some random folks with zero gravitas and importance were the mastermind behind everything.

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We will never know.

You already do.
Snake was always a crazy sociopath and never had a moment when he turned into a demon, because he always was.

It's the takeaway from this game.
 
The more time goes by the more it hurts.

I don't know how often I watched the beginning of this trailer: BB walking on a pile of burned corpses. I thought we'd finally get to see the legendary merc as his lore described him since the MGS1 days and before.

And then there's, to me, the most powerful moment in the game, mission 43, that looses all its meaning with the ending.

Who did this to MGSV?? WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ?
 
This is ridiculous concerning how gigantic the game is as is but it has to be true. Somewhere along the line someone got over-ambitious.

Game developers are human, troubles are had, ambitions are high, mistakes are made. There's absolutely no way to know for sure what happened, but I still suspect MGSV's development hit a bunch of hurdles including and not limited to being a cross generation, open world game on an entirely new engine, a series being reimagined/resdesigned to accommodate the new open world, additional production costs of modern "cinematic" cutscenes versus days of past, Konami's disinterest in spending big bucks, and Kojima maybe doing as so many directors do and cutting/changing major content at unideal points of development.
 
It is really interesting how Ocelot becomes increasingly more of a dickbag as the series progresses.

MGS3: Hotshot young Major who thinks he's the shit, only weird thing is he shows a weird pleasure towards torture.

MGSPO (Canon?): Kills someone to get the legacy.

MGSV: Doesn't really do anything because he's essentially part of the codec team in this one, but he does display some of that penchant for torture at times.

MGS1: Has gone into full blown sadist mode, double crosses Liquid.

MGS2: Takes Liquid's arm just because, still a sadist, kills Scott Dolph for reasons, triple agent.

MGS4: Goes with a super convoluted plan that has a very small chance of working because of his crush on Big Boss.

Game developers are human, troubles are had, ambitions are high, mistakes are made. There's absolutely no way to know for sure what happened, but I still suspect MGSV's development hit a bunch of hurdles including and not limited to being a cross generation, open world game on an entirely new engine, a series being reimagined/resdesigned to accommodate the new open world, additional production costs of modern "cinematic" cutscenes versus days of past, Konami's disinterest in spending big bucks, and Kojima maybe doing as so many directors do and cutting/changing major content at unideal points of development.
Part of me thinks they didn't have a cohesive design to begin with, because of the strange marketing of Ground Zeroes and TPP and their refusal to answer how they would be sold for a good while after their reveal. The episodic nature of the game also implies that episodic releases may have been considered at some point. I hope we learn more when Kojima's contract expires.
 
Ocelot went total fangirl over Big Boss by the end of MGS3 and it just carried over into MGS4 as well. The fact that he's still a fangirl in MGS5 is not surprising at all.
 
Out of all these 3 its funny that Portable Ops, the worst game, probably does the best job at actually showing that link.

- Shows how Big Boss gets the exact idea for Outer Heaven: Check
- Shows how Big Boss gets the funds to create Outer Heaven: Check
- Shows how Big Boss establishes himself in FOXHOUND, with it maintaining its consistency with the post-game Snake Eater timeline: Check

I mean there you go. In a pre-MGS4 world that right there is 'working as advertised'. And then before the curtains close it commits the sin of starting the MGS3 cast as Patriots meme.
Kojima hates PO tho... the game was ass controlling wise.
 
Does Ocelot even know who his mother is in MGSV?

Is it stated that Ocelot is The Boss's son in MGS3? I remember her talking about having a son that was taken away from her, but I can't remember if it was said in game whether it was Ocelot or not. Was it revealed in PoOps or MGS4 maybe? Or do I just need to replay MGS3?
 
I maintain that Fukushima's abandonment of Konami left Kojima to take it in directions it probably never would have gone.

MGS3 is the story that fills the gap. Nothing seriously was needed. It established Big Boss as a character, sewed seeds of bitterness and anti-Americanism, left him still connected to the US government, and gave enough information to plausibly map out his secret betray while working with Foxhound (that was also established in MGS3).

Then along came MGS4 with it's whole post credits "oh by the way Zero and I had a fight, he's the bad guy, and I'm a bad guy, because we followed THE WILL OF THE BOSS that was never a thing until now" exposition dump.

Part of me thinks they didn't have a cohesive design to begin with, because of the strange marketing of Ground Zeroes and TPP and their refusal to answer how they would be sold for a good while after their reveal. The episodic nature of the game also implies that episodic releases may have been considered at some point. I hope we learn more when Kojima's contract expires.

More than likely yes, and that's probably a result of trying to work out how to make "Metal Gear Solid" in the new open world environment. Making this landmass, structuring quests, keeping a narrative intact, the scope of player freedom inside and outside of quests, back and forth with Mother Base. I'm sure they hit a lot of conceptual walls.
 
Is it stated that Ocelot is The Boss's son in MGS3? I remember her talking about having a son that was taken away from her, but I can't remember if it was said in game whether it was Ocelot or not. Was it revealed in PoOps or MGS4 maybe? Or do I just need to replay MGS3?

There's a radio call to EVA to 3 during the Ocelot fight where Snake wonders how he can be an officer at such a young age, and EVA says that according to rumor, Ocelot is the son of a legendary soldier, and that he was born on a battlefield. Snake assumes that the soldier was the father, and the mother was in a battlefield for some reason.

At the end, The Boss obviously mentions giving birth on the battlefield, so it all fits.
 
THEY PLAYED US LIKE DAMN MCGRIDDLES

The Boss: *takes bong rip* man... from like, space, there are no borders or politics or wars, y'know


Gene: so military dictatorships, got it
Big Boss: wait, so you want more wars right. did that guy say military dictatorships
Zero: no, she wants everyone controlled by the government and speaking english duh
Ocelot: what does big boss want, i'll do that
EVA: guys, she said she didn't like borders or politics or wars
Big Boss *ten years later*: wait, no wars. fuck she did say that. what the fuck man. well hold on, i still like the more wars thing
Patriots AI: more wars but lots of fucking money too
Solid Snake: why don't you just stop trying to create wars and politics and shit
Big Boss *fifty years later*: oh god why didn't i think of that, my bad yo

I'm dying over here.
 
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