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[akidnamededdy]

The impression that I got was that BB wasn't laying in the bed next to Venom for 9 years. He was monitoring him and watching over him but not physically in the bed the whole time.

The question remains though--why was he there at all? Venom was created to shield Big Boss, the whole delicate operation goes out the fucking window if the hospital explodes with both of them inside.

BB should've been smuggled far away the second he was awake.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

So I finished the main story stuff this last weekend, with a few key points still remaining (like that last Quiet quest) and I decided to watch that cut video for Mission 51.

I can't fucking believe this. I can write off any overall series loose ends not being cleaned up in this game, but to actively create that huge of a loose end in this game and do absolutely nothing to give the player closure....is one of the stupidest decisions I have seen in games ever.

I mean what the fuck. A group of teenage boys take off with one of the most dangerous weapons in the world and everyone is just like "Well, I am sure they are just hawk it off at a pawn shop for some toys and shit. Let's get back to doing filler quests!"

UGGGHGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

The question remains though--why was he there at all? Venom was created to shield Big Boss, the whole delicate operation goes out the fucking window if the hospital explodes with both of them inside.

Who else would you send? They didn't have a mother base yet. Kaz was a prisoner and Ocelot was clearly worthless the whole game.

 

[Blastoise]

Why is Big Boss (real) called both John and Jack?

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Why is Big Boss (real) called both John and Jack?

Everybody needs 10 names in Metal Gear. Pretty sure Jack is his real name, John (Doe) is a fake one.

 

[Zomba13]

Who else would you send? They didn't have a mother base yet. Kaz was a prisoner and Ocelot was clearly worthless the whole game.

No one? Because it's not needed at that point? BB could have got out no problem. People still thought he was dead or in a coma, no one had reason to believe he was alive or awake at that point, he could have just stayed hidden and worked on Outer Heaven/Zanzibar Land.

And if he needed V to look like BB then that could have been done and just left him, he'd still think he's BB and look like him, he'd still draw fire. If he died in the hospital then that would just further cement the fact that BB is not an issue any more.

 

[hamchan]

So I finished the main story stuff this last weekend, with a few key points still remaining (like that last Quiet quest) and I decided to watch that cut video for Mission 51.

I can't fucking believe this. I can write off any overall series loose ends not being cleaned up in this game, but to actively create that huge of a loose end in this game and do absolutely nothing to give the player closure....is one of the stupidest decisions I have seen in games ever.

I mean what the fuck. A group of teenage boys take off with one of the most dangerous weapons in the world and everyone is just like "Well, I am sure they are just hawk it off at a pawn shop for some toys and shit. Let's get back to doing filler quests!"

UGGGHGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I don't think it was a decision, more like they were forced to after running out of time and money.

 

[Zabant]

I don't understand the prologue being conceived of with Big Boss as Ishmael in mind. I feel like that was a twist that came in after-the-fact.

It's so dumb. Their escape plan was "Shit, let's hijack an ambulance". Like, if you know people are going to come to kill Medic Boss, and you have years to plan an escape, you can do better than that. Shit, make a second body double just to get killed so that body double 1 can sneak out of the back of the building.

There's all this talk of 'the people out to kill comatose Big Boss'

But really, who is this?

Is it Zero? No, the entire body double thing was his plan to begin with.

So it must be Skull Face right?

But Skull Face's real target has always been Zero and the the English Language (lol) why the hell does he want to kill Big Boss?

I mean, he had already got back at zero with the Parasite Pin anyway at this point anyway.

Did he attack the hospital because he was forced to clean up after BB's during MGS3 as a member of XOF?

Well that's a piss poor reason for wanting to kill a man.

I mean shit, by the end of the game he doesn't seem to care about killing the guy anyway, as he let him SIT RIGHT NEXT TO HIM during a car ride with all his gear while he layed out all his motivations for the English Parasite.

Nothing in this game makes sense.

 

[Magwik]

I mean Big Boss staying at the hospital makes sense. He may as well make sure his double makes it out alive, and nobody else would probably have been half as skilled enough to deal with all the shit they had thrown at them

 

[Xpike]

Why is Big Boss (real) called both John and Jack?

they call him jack for short (????), his real name is John.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Who else would you send? They didn't have a mother base yet. Kaz was a prisoner and Ocelot was clearly worthless the whole game.

Miller had already established Diamond Dogs, though--that's what he'd been up to, wasn't it? You go immediately to Mother Base after you rescue him, and he had SOME people. And Ocelot hadn't "self hypnotized" the plan away from his brain yet because he meets up with BB immediately after the ambulance crash, and he's certainly well connected.

Even without all that though, I'm not convinced that Medic Boss was ever required to leave the hospital alive.

 

[Zomba13]

I don't think it was a decision, more like they were forced to after running out of time and money.

They could have at least removed the cutscene of Eli stealing the robot with Mantis. That way we'd assume they really did just leave Sahelanthropus there as a trohpy/reminder and that Eli eventually makes it off the base (like he was trying to) and Mantis follows (so they end up in Foxhound together).

Still loose ends because it's not explained in the game but better than actually showing us that stuff and making us expect something to come of it.

 

[Ralemont]

Why is Big Boss (real) called both John and Jack?

Jack is a nickname for John, like Bill is for William, for example.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

No one? Because it's not needed at that point? BB could have got out no problem. People still thought he was dead or in a coma, no one had reason to believe he was alive or awake at that point, he could have just stayed hidden and worked on Outer Heaven/Zanzibar Land.

And if he needed V to look like BB then that could have been done and just left him, he'd still think he's BB and look like him, he'd still draw fire. If he died in the hospital then that would just further cement the fact that BB is not an issue any more.

If Venom died in the hospital then XOF would have his body and they would have found out his DNA didn't match the real BB and 9 years of preparation would have gone down the drain.

 

[Alienous]

I mean Big Boss staying at the hospital makes sense. He may as well make sure his double makes it out alive, and nobody else would probably have been half as skilled enough to deal with all the shit they had thrown at them

But they have Ocelot. He's given the task of protecting Medic Boss, but just after his leaves the building, for some reason.

It just doesn't seem worth the risk to put real Big Boss in the firing line of the body double you create to keep Big Boss safe, without guns or armour. Not a minute into trying to protect the Medic and gets a knife thrown into his chest.

There's no logical reason why you wouldn't send a squad.

 

[akidnamededdy]

If Venom died in the hospital then XOF would have his body and they would have found out his DNA didn't match the real BB and 9 years of preparation would have gone down the drain.

Would it have though? The real BB would be long gone at that point. The ultimate goal would still be achieved.

 

[Mass One]

The question remains though--why was he there at all? Venom was created to shield Big Boss, the whole delicate operation goes out the fucking window if the hospital explodes with both of them inside.

BB should've been smuggled far away the second he was awake.

Well maybe BB/Jack wanted to see if BB/Medic was fit enough to take his place. So he came up convoluted idea of laying next to BB/Medic in wait till the XOF attack; sacrificing every person in the hospital as means to run BB/medic through crazy 1 in a million tutorial scenario.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

But they have Ocelot.

It just doesn't seem worth the risk to put real Big Boss in the firing line of the body double you create to keep Big Boss safe, without guns or armour. Not a minute into trying to protect the Medic and get gets a knife thrown into his chest.

There's no logical reason why you wouldn't send a squad.

It seemed to me like the attack on the hospital happened earlier then they thought and they had to improvise.

Would it have though? The real BB would be long gone at that point. The ultimate goal would still be achieved.

The ultimate goal was to divert attention away from BB over a long period of time, not for a few days/weeks.

 

[Zabant]

Miller had already established Diamond Dogs, though--that's what he'd been up to, wasn't it? You go immediately to Mother Base after you rescue him, and he had SOME people. And Ocelot hadn't "self hypnotized" the plan away from his brain yet because he meets up with BB immediately after the ambulance crash, and he's certainly well connected.

Even without all that though, I'm not convinced that Medic Boss was ever required to leave the hospital alive.

The real reason Venom was created was so the 'MEME' of big boss the legendary leader of mercenaries could carry on while real Boss did the boring administrative stuff required in setting up a country.

This is how I like to imagine it, BB was simply too busy sorting out building contractors and making sure the budget was balanced for his new nation project to be doing any of the grunt work that made him famous and caused people to idolize him. So he got a stand in.

 

[Alienous]

Would it have though? The real BB would be long gone at that point. The ultimate goal would still be achieved.

The ultimate goal was to perpetuate Big Boss' legend, which required that he isn't dead. Otherwise they could have made it appear that he died to get the heat off of him.

 

[Ralemont]

Would it have though? The real BB would be long gone at that point. The ultimate goal would still be achieved.

The ultimate goal was two-pronged: to have Venom keep building the legend of Big Boss while BB plots his Zanzibar nation, and to keep everyone's eyes off BB while he does this. Both fizzle into nothing if Venom dies at the hospital.

 

[janoDX]

What if the biggest ruse Kojima is pulling is that there's no ruse and MGO is only an Online Multiplayer mode, and nothing else?.

 

[Zomba13]

There's all this talk of 'the people out to kill comatose Big Boss'

But really, who is this?

Is it Zero? No, the entire body double thing was his plan to begin with.

So it must be Skull Face right?

But Skull Face's real target has always been Zero and the the English Language (lol) why the hell does he want to kill Big Boss?

I mean, he had already got back at zero with the Parasite Pin anyway at this point anyway.

Did he attack the hospital because he was forced to clean up after BB's during MGS3 as a member of XOF?

Well that's a piss poor reason for wanting to kill a man.

I mean shit, by the end of the game he doesn't seem to care about killing the guy anyway, as he let him SIT RIGHT NEXT TO HIM during a car ride with all his gear while he layed out all his motivations for the English Parasite.

Nothing in this game makes sense.

Oh god you're right. You give anything even a little thought and it falls apart.

Unless the reason really is Skully didn't like being background support/clean up crew for Big Boss.

I mean, in GZ Skull Face gets the info about Zero from Paz and knows BB will come for Chico and her so does the bomb stuff because he doesn't want Paz talking revealing his plan. I guess he assumes BB is after Zero too (which he might be? After the Paz and ZEKE thing) so SF wants to stop BB from getting to Zero because SF wants the revenge (for the whole taking him from his village, taking his language etc) and doesn't want BB to mess that up.

The only reason to go after BB in TPP is because he might still go after Zero (which has been taken care of at this point so doesn't matter) or because he might come after SF/Cipher/XOF for revenge (which he does) or end up stopping his plans.

Typing this post made me think that SF wanting BB dead does make sense but I don't think it's really given or explained to be the reason in the game. Man on Fire/Volgin makes perfect sense though, revenge pure and simple.

 

[Alienous]

It seemed to me like the attack on the hospital happened earlier then they thought and they had to improvise.

Well, the whaling ship is there, and that didn't get there in a hurry.

Seems to me they were just procrastinating on it and fucked up.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Here's another dumb fucking thing for you: they go to all this trouble to create a Big Boss body double (more than that even, somehow--did they play tapes about Big Boss's life in the medic's comatose ears for nine years or something?) in order to protect the real Big Boss, and then what do they do?

Have the real Big Boss, the GUY THEY WENT THROUGH ALL THIS TO PROTECT IN THE FIRST PLACE, stay there in the hospital, IN THE BED RIGHT NEXT TO THE DECOY. WHO EVERYONE WOULD BE COMING TO KILL.

Like, okay, the plan called for the fake to survive and make it out of there alive (did it?), but surely they should've had literally anybody else that was able there to protect him instead of the guy HE was created to keep out of the line of fire?

Big Boss was already mostly healed, why the hell was he still there agghhhhhhh



Hopefully being ashamed of his words and deeds.

That didn't bother me too much. They probably didn't have anyone else to protect the decoy. All of motherbase and its staff were destroyed. Also, the real Big Boss was the most likely individual to pull it off. They've been working for years to make this plan come to fruition, so they needed to doubly make sure that the plan succeeded.

However, it is a bit stupid. The real Big Boss could have at least had a gun next to his bed when shit hit the fan.

 

[Ralemont]

What if the biggest ruse Kojima is pulling is that there's no ruse and MGO is only an Online Multiplayer mode, and nothing else?.

Did I miss something? Someone is expecting MGO to be more than multiplayer?

 

[RandomSeed]

But they have Ocelot. He's given the task of protecting Medic Boss, but just after his leaves the building, for some reason.

It just doesn't seem worth the risk to put real Big Boss in the firing line of the body double you create to keep Big Boss safe, without guns or armour. Not a minute into trying to protect the Medic and get gets a knife thrown into his chest.

There's no logical reason why you wouldn't send a squad.

I know it's a video game, but you'd think having a knife sized hole in your lung would make it difficult to give out tutorial commands.

 

[Alienous]

That didn't bother me too much. They probably didn't have anyone else to protect the decoy. All of motherbase and its staff were destroyed. Also, the real Big Boss was the most likely individual to pull it off. They've been working for years to make this plan come to fruition, so they needed to doubly make sure that the plan succeeded.

However, it is a bit stupid. The real Big Boss could have at least had a gun next to his bed when shit hit the fan.

The doctor who Quiet mercilessly killed at least brought a gun. He knew what he was in for.

 

[plebegamer]

Well maybe that was the trick. You could not outsmart them, but you could outstupid them.

Big Boss pointed out that they always went with the simplest possible answer to everything. Send a poisonous Snake in, kill all VIPs, proceed to next order of business. It's the one trick they had.

Also, once the Patriots went full AI after SIGINT bit it, they were a full on computer program that for all its intelligence, could not discern between fact and fiction on its own. If you tell a computer that a paranormal phenomenon is real, it doesn't doubt it. Even though it's an incredibly smart AI, since it can't prove Liquid's ghost is a fake and doesn't exist, it has to treat it as a real thing.

Beside, they exist in a world where paranormal is pretty common place. Psycho Mantis and The Sorrow being primary examples. The Sorrow was also Liquid's father, and EVA claimed Ocelot had to replace Liquid's arm with cybernetics after it kept fucking with his mind, didn't she?

 

[akidnamededdy]

The ultimate goal was to perpetuate Big Boss' legend, which required that he isn't dead. Otherwise they could have made it appear that he died to get the heat off of him.

The ultimate goal was two-pronged: to have Venom keep building the legend of Big Boss while BB plots his Zanzibar nation, and to keep everyone's eyes off BB while he does this. Both fizzle into nothing if Venom dies at the hospital.

Even so, they both fizzle into nothing if BB dies at the hospital, too. And he came pretty close himself.

Well maybe BB/Jack wanted to see if BB/Medic was fit enough to take his place. So he came up convoluted idea of laying next to BB/Medic in wait till the XOF attack; sacrificing every person in the hospital as means to run BB/medic through crazy 1 in a million tutorial scenario.

I guess I would expect this from the guy who was okay with completely erasing the personality of one of his loyal men and using him to take some of the heat off himself, though.

 

[Xpike]

it's likely that big boss only imagined they're send XOF soldiers to get them, no biggie just sneak past or kill if necessary. God Mantis and Angry Zombie Volgin were surprises no one expected.

 

[Zomba13]

If Venom died in the hospital then XOF would have his body and they would have found out his DNA didn't match the real BB and 9 years of preparation would have gone down the drain.

Then you don't even go through with the body double plan. BB is still assumed dead because if XOF/Cipher/SF knew he was alive they would have gone after him some way, especially when they get to V so soon after he wakes up (and seemingly just after his plastic surgery).

V wasn't needed at all. No double was needed. Unless BB wanted to still do stuff publicly while working in the shadows which seems like a stupid thing.

 

[MechaX]

The biggest thing that bothers me right now is that Kaz, who figures out everything eventually, essentially splits off from Venom to join Foxhound, train Solid, and work with the real Big Boss who is leading Foxhound.

Hell, why in the fuck would real Big Boss even come back to lead Foxhound at all? He could have easily manipulated Solid to get Big Medic behind the scenes without even...

God, fuck this series.

 

[plebegamer]

Ocelot comes off as a completely different character in every single metal gear game.

I mean I know that his character is supposed to be developing as the series progresses but he still comes off as maybe the most inconsistent character in video games.

I don't know about that, Ocelot has always been an over the top goofy piece of shit that has to act like a different person for his career as a X-tuple agent. The Ocelot meow scene, his showing off with his new revolvers, his banter with Solid Snake, BROOOOOOTHEEEEEERRRRRR, machinegun fingers, whatever the hell that was when he was running in Alaska.

It seems pretty consistent to me.

 

[Alienous]

it's likely that big boss only imagined they're send XOF soldiers to get them, no biggie just sneak past or kill if necessary. God Mantis and Angry Zombie Volgin were surprises no one expected.

I suppose.

The only way I can make sense of it is, as you said, they were expecting a fairly simple infiltrating XOF force. And that the reason for having Big Boss escort the Medic was to make it seem like he escaped alone; 'Big Boss escaped the hospital massacre as the lone survivor, what a legend'. So playing it close to the chest was for the benefit of perpetuating the legend.

 

[Banana Aeon]

The biggest thing that bothers me right now is that Kaz, who figures out everything eventually, essentially splits off from Venom to join Foxhound, train Solid, and work with the real Big Boss who is leading Foxhound.

Hell, why in the fuck would real Big Boss even come back to lead Foxhound at all? He could have easily manipulated Solid to get Big Medic behind the scenes without even...

God, fuck this series.

The missing link though.

 

[Xpike]

Big Boss came back to FOXHOUND to play both sides and disguise his true intentions of taking down the Patriots until he had a better plan of taking them down.

He should've hypnotized himself into believing he was actually possesed by Volgin, that would've been way easier.

 

[Hellwarden]

So, here's the question.

Do you think the problems in the game are due to Konami's fuckery, or Kojima....being too Kojima?

Or a mix of the two?

 

[entremet]

Why is Big Boss (real) called both John and Jack?

Everybody needs 10 names in Metal Gear. Pretty sure Jack is his real name, John (Doe) is a fake one.

Jack is a nickname of John.

JFK was known as Jack Kennedy amongst friends.

 

[akidnamededdy]

it's likely that big boss only imagined they're send XOF soldiers to get them, no biggie just sneak past or kill if necessary. God Mantis and Angry Zombie Volgin were surprises no one expected.

The same XOF soldiers who killed his entire private army and put him in a coma before? The guys who were not above causing an international incident to kill him in the first place?

I know it's a fairly small nit to pick in the grand pile of nits that is this game's plot, but still.

 

[Zabant]

Oh god you're right. You give anything even a little thought and it falls apart.

Unless the reason really is Skully didn't like being background support/clean up crew for Big Boss.

I mean, in GZ Skull Face gets the info about Zero from Paz and knows BB will come for Chico and her so does the bomb stuff because he doesn't want Paz talking revealing his plan. I guess he assumes BB is after Zero too (which he might be? After the Paz and ZEKE thing) so SF wants to stop BB from getting to Zero because SF wants the revenge (for the whole taking him from his village, taking his language etc) and doesn't want BB to mess that up.

The only reason to go after BB in TPP is because he might still go after Zero (which has been taken care of at this point so doesn't matter) or because he might come after SF/Cipher/XOF for revenge (which he does) or end up stopping his plans.

Typing this post made me think that SF wanting BB dead does make sense but I don't think it's really given or explained to be the reason in the game. Man on Fire/Volgin makes perfect sense though, revenge pure and simple.

So basically, Skull Face attacked the hospital because he was scared Big Boss would be angry about him attacking MSF and would come after him to get revenge.

When the real Big Boss didn't actually give a fuck, and was more interested in building outer heaven.

This entire thing could have simply been solved with a phone call

"Yo skullface, what you did was not cool, but I forgive you. Zero is basically dead now anyway and i have this other thing going on so whaddya say, let bygones be bygones?"

Ridiculous... the entire through point and reason for MGSV as a game was to get revenge on Skullface, and it turns out the real Big Boss didn't actually care.

You're playing a guy that's been hypnotised into thinking he's mad at Skullface, which itself doesn't make sense because if the real BB isn't out for revenge why is his body double?

Maybe it's the last parts of the medic's true memory coming through and HE wants to get revenge for causing his helicopter to crash....but this is PURE SPECULATION and is never stated in the game.

 

[MechaX]

The missing link though.

Fucking Kojima.

Big Boss came back to FOXHOUND to play both sides and disguise his true intentions of taking down the Patriots until he had a better plan of taking them down.

He should've hypnotized himself into believing he was actually possesed by Volgin, that would've been way easier.

But Cipher knew that Big Boss was a mercenary warmonger through Venom! That was the entire point of even trying to throw people off of Big Boss's trail by having Venom get all the attention! Wouldn't it be completely detrimental to this massive gambit to be like "Oh, I was leading a mercenary group but psyche, I'm now leading a US black-op team with my clone in it lol"?

Hell, wouldn't this even tip off Cipher even more to the possibility that there are two Big Bosses?

 

[plebegamer]

Here's another dumb fucking thing for you: they go to all this trouble to create a Big Boss body double (more than that even, somehow--did they play tapes about Big Boss's life in the medic's comatose ears for nine years or something?) in order to protect the real Big Boss, and then what do they do?

Have the real Big Boss, the GUY THEY WENT THROUGH ALL THIS TO PROTECT IN THE FIRST PLACE, stay there in the hospital, IN THE BED RIGHT NEXT TO THE DECOY. WHO EVERYONE WOULD BE COMING TO KILL.

Like, okay, the plan called for the fake to survive and make it out of there alive (did it?), but surely they should've had literally anybody else that was able there to protect him instead of the guy HE was created to keep out of the line of fire?

Big Boss was already mostly healed, why the hell was he still there agghhhhhhh



Hopefully being ashamed of his words and deeds.

I thought Phantom Boss was kept in an induced coma for 9 years after the fact? They kept him drugged up and fed him suggestion while going along with Zero's plan. Big Boss had no hand in the creation of Phantom boss, he just was convinced to go along with it 9 years after the plan was already done, and in the end gave Phantom Boss his sincere gratitude.

Big Boss woke up, and was told to keep his body double safe until he was fit to assume the mantle of Phantom Big Boss, which meant taking out the assassin sent for him.

I don't think anybody expected so massive an attack, let alone a fucking fire whale.

 

[Jintor]

so did anybody particularly feel like taking revenge on anybody besides huey

even old skully it kinda felt like they didn't really do anything, since I didn't really give much of a hoot about original mother base. maybe a bit about paz and chico but venom doesn't really seem to think much of chico at all and paz... well, you know

 

[Mass One]

Even so, they both fizzle into nothing if BB dies at the hospital, too. And he came pretty close himself.



I guess I would expect this from the guy who was okay with completely erasing the personality of one of his loyal men and using him to take some of the heat off himself, though.

That is the craziest thing I have ever a witness to in a AAA game. Like that wasn't a fan-made explanation or theory. The protagonist of MGS3 (former good guy) is plainly a Body-Snatching villian.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Obviously working on the Chapter 4 DLC coming this this Christmas. All the signs are there! Just look at this website! www.kojimalivesandismakingdlcsrslyguys.gov



Yup, the whole body double thing reeeeeeeally falls apart when you give it more than 10 seconds of thought. BB stayed in the hospital with V, to make sure he got out alive. But why even do that? Why not just wake up, leave, and get another person to be your double? Or just go off and do your thing like you planned to while the world thinks you're dead anyway. Why come back to life only so you can go off and do something while your double takes the heat? Why create the heat in the first place and get an entire hospital killed? Why not just wake up, get better, leave then stay in the shadows until MG1.

 

[Severance]

Ocelot in MGSV is definitely the most boring iteration of Ocelot. I thought he'd have more of an edge to him, but he was rather flat in this game. Felt like he was there more for fan service. His character doesnt really bridge the developmental gap between MGS3 and MGS1 Ocelot.

Ocelot's whole hypnotizing himself to believe Venom is Big Boss thing feels like a desperate attempt to validate the ridicousness of his MGS4 hypnotherapy twist. Sometimes Kojima does a little too much explaining. MGS3 is my favorite Metal Gear story and not ever do they attempt to explain the supernatural powers of the Cobra Unit. And they don't need to! But in MGSV we get "Cobra Unit was that way because parasites." I liked the idea of parasites as a language destroying disease, but then everything becomes "because parasites." Fuck.

 

[Phocks]

so did anybody particularly feel like taking revenge on anybody besides huey

even old skully it kinda felt like they didn't really do anything, since I didn't really give much of a hoot about original mother base

seeing skullbird's limbs get shot off was satisfying

huey's characterization was probably the best out of anyone in the game

 

[Alienous]

Why did Skull Face fuck up Mother Base 1, again?

He seemed to know how to take down Zero, so it doesn't seem to make much sense trying to provoke Big Boss against Cipher.

 

[akidnamededdy]

I thought Phantom Boss was kept in an induced coma for 9 years after the fact? They kept him drugged up and fed him suggestion while going along with Zero's plan. Big Boss had no hand in the creation of Phantom boss, he just was convinced to go along with it 9 years after the plan was already done, and in the end gave Phantom Boss his sincere gratitude.

Big Boss woke up, and was told to keep his body double safe until he was fit to assume the mantle of Phantom Big Boss, which meant taking out the assassin sent for him.

I don't think anybody expected so massive an attack, let alone a fucking fire whale.

The fire whale was summoned by Phantom Boss himself though--Mantis has a shrapnel horn when it shows up