I think whatever his story failings, Kojima as a cinematics director (apart from the utterly atrocious Skull face jeep scene, I have no idea what anybody was thinking) and as a cutscene director are goddamn top of the world.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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I think whatever his story failings, Kojima as a cinematics director (apart from the utterly atrocious Skull face jeep scene, I have no idea what anybody was thinking) and as a cutscene director are goddamn top of the world.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Big Boss conveniently shows up at the right graveyard at the right time to tell Old Snake that he shouldn't commit suicide because Naomi wanted to pass on the message that he probably won't turn into a living biological weapon before he dies naturally, even though Naomi subtly encouraged him to kill himself in her final message that only played when the entire Patriot AI system had been destroyed, and Snake did fire a shot and if he hadn't buckled at the last second would be dead before Big Boss "I'm not here to fight" got to say anything at all.
Metal Gear has been Conveniences and Contrivances: The Series for awhile now.
Metal Gear has been Conveniences and Contrivances: The Series for awhile now.
Man, I just thought how awesome it would be to make MB a mix of an actual building and a mind palace where Venom enters doors to recall memories. You pla and unlock doors and get scenes with charactera who may or may not be there and dream missions. Just imagine diaconnectes remakes of old boss fights and parts of missions in the new engine. As fun service, fun and Venoms struggle with memories that aren't his.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Ok so I swear there was another person on Volgin's flaming horse when it showed up - who was that?
mantis
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Yeah but sometimes you can see him hovering and not on the horse I believe
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Phenomenal idea
Zabant
Member
WAIT YOU GOT SOMETHING THERE!!!
Kojima tried to explain away all of the paranormal stuff like the Cobra unit's powers with parasites, but how the fuck did the sorrows powers work, he's a dead ghost man!
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
That's just actual supernatural stuff like Vulcan Raven's mysticism and Psycho Mantis' powers. Yes, only SOME things get handwaved and explained!
Like Mantis he is something else. Suoernatural psychics are a league on their own.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
A narrative that toes the line between the real and surreal, questioning fact over fiction, is something I think a lot of people (at least myself) were given the impression MGSV was based on the way old trailers presented the story. That regardless of whether you were or weren't play as Big Boss (one of the oldest theories is that you weren't), the game would have you questioning your player's perception of the world and events.
What we got was something typically Metal Gear silly, but far more straight down the road in explanations. There's nothing particularly surreal or questionable with the story except for the Paz arc, which is entirely skippable.
MGSV basically hinges on Mantis being a walking (floating) deus ex machina usable by whoever is angriest
Zomba13
Member
Psychic energy is actual magic. Mantis and Sorrow are Psychic guys so they get to live as ghosts after they die.
Zabant
Member
THEN WHY HANDWAVE ANYTHING AT ALL?!
Was The Pain's explanation in MGS3 that he had control over a queen bee who lived inside him really so non-sensical that it had to be replaced with 'IT WAS PARASITES THAT ATTRACTED THE HORNETS'
Was anyone calling out of an explanation of how REALLY the fucking bee man's powers worked?
akidnamededdy
Banned
This actually makes way too much sense to be right, could you Kojima this explanation up a bit please? Throw some talk about myelin sheathes in there maybe?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Welcome to what people have been saying since MGS4 came out! A vampire is too much but psychics and dead men are cool
Also remember that The Fear also can use photosynthesis yet somehow doesn't need to dress in ripped stockings and a bra
Unknown One
Member
Mgs fans started all this shit when they bitched about Vamp. Just desserts I say.
The Dear Leader
Banned
I just finished it and I have to say I really liked the ending. I need some time to gather my thoughts and listen to a few remaining tapes but overall I thought the whole story was good, some parts weren't great but I enjoyed the majority of it.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yes, I agree. That is very bothering. A lot of fun could be had with the idea. Like the Skulls. Think, they have more to do than hunting Big Boss, imagine them occasionally travelling nearby where the area gets tainted in mist and they pass by Venom. Imagine that before the Bee mission and without any explanation what the fuck those glowing eyes and passing shadows in the mist are. Using them in the Kaz mission felt a bit wasted, they shouldn't be explained ao early to have some horror factor.
Holy shit, Mantis + Hulk!
Nobody bitched about Vamp. Don't try to blame the fans. This was all Kojima. It always has been.
and by shitty life I mean the actual La Li Lu Le Lo, not to be confused with Cipher or the Patriots, manipulated The Boss into pretending to pretend to defect to the Soviet Union all in order to give Naked Snake a bunch of emotional ouchies, so that eventually when Zero made Venom they could arrange Russian Airlines to transport Mantis at that exact time and awaken his powers through V coming to, so that Mantis could eventually decades later give many young players a chubbie by having Meryl demand Snake take her on the floor of the office in MGS1.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
I love it when ocelot explaining about esp, venom was all like, 'oh come on now, that's a load of horse shit'. This is from someone who already facing a man on fire and flying kid probably a months before. Not to mention since he have big boss memories, that include bee man, a ghost, thunder dude, etc
Mr. Smiley
Member
how dare u
I feel like MGSV commits one of the worst atrocities when it comes to storytelling. It trivializes its story at the end of it all. I can accept the twist that who you play is not Big Boss, but the way it was handled was poorly in my opinion. If the game continued near the end as the real Big Boss and the fake Big Boss' efforts were used for the real Big Boss' end-goal, then it wouldn't feel so trivialized. At this point, MGSV is essentially "Hey we made up Skull Face to give you an antagonist and you can run around and do stuff and build a fake Outer Heaven while real Big Boss makes the real one." I really enjoyed MGSV, but the story was a huge letdown. The camerawork for the cutscenes were great, but it was almost always style and no substance in those scenes. A majority of non-playable cutscenes in this game are simply camerawork that spends time meticulously displaying the action at hand. That's great and all, but that's all that is really there. It's all stick and no carrot. It's a shame to see the Kojima MGS series end like this. I have to imagine stuff was cut or required to end up like this due to pressure from Konami. Mission 51 is at least evidence that they didn't get to complete the game.
Zabant
Member
Ahaha ahh...
Kojima's brain is like a fly trapped in a jar, it aimlessly flies from place to place banging against little bits of information that he read about one time - that he decides to incorperate into his stories without much thought.
GENES!
MEMES!
FULTON!
That always amuses me in super hero comics and manga. People going nuta about something unusual in a world full of unusual.
Zomba13
Member
You're not Ether_Snake
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I like how Volgin switched elements in this game.
"Thunder didn't work so well. Let's try fire"
razzmahtazz
Member
Unknown One
Member
Shitloads of people bitched about Vamp and Liquid possessing Ocelot. Kojima listens to feedback. It was even talked about in the MGS4 documentary.
MarcoZombieCannon
Member
You'd think he'd want to try to pick an element that wouldn't result in him getting owned by water.
He is like an Eevee. He got a lot of future evolutions left.
You are thinking of The End. To be fair, The End was asleep throughout nearly all of MGS3. It could be argued that The End was hibernating and did not need nourishment. Plus, he was bald and could collect air and sunlight from his dome.
Zabant
Member
Can't wait to see Grass Volgin.
His power is that he's high as fuck all the time and his boss battle is like those crazy pot induced hallucination side-missions from GTAV.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I have weird relationship to this game. On one hand this game is a huge disappointment, but on the other hand it isn't and I had tons of fun with it.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Ah that was The End? Huh, I guess it would be more fitting.
johnsavage
Member
I feel the same way. First game in ages I couldn't stop playing. Was super disappointed with how it ended, but I still want to upgrade my stuff and finish side ops.
and I keep hoping for a hidden chapter 3/4/5/6/7/8/9/etc
The last time I felt like this was Mass Effect 3, but once I finished that I couldn't bring myself to ever play it again.
Stallion Dan
Member
I get the feeling Battle Gear would have been used against the Metal Gear in mission 51.
akidnamededdy
Banned
plebegamer
Banned
There's a lot of confusion over the order of events and the why's of soe things:
First of all, Cipher was a massive organization by the time of GZ, and some of those parts could function autonomously, without ero's consent and/or against his wishes.
The attack on MSF was exclusively the work of Skull Face as a means of provoking Zero. He's very candid about the fact he wants to end Zero and take everything from him. Big Boss is the most important person in Zero's life, even after their little lover's spat over LET.
Zero was furious and sent Skull Face out to pasture. The man was a great asset and very talented, so he could possibly be of use later. Afterall, this man was given the same parasites that gave several members of the Cobra Unit their powers, specifically The End.
This exile to Africa was what gave Skull Face the chance to encounter the vocal cord parasites. It also gave him even more freedom thanks to being out of sight and out of mind. Zero wasn't terribly concerned about his own safety because he thought his defense was perfect.
Zero created Phantom Big Boss, not the Real Big Boss. Phantom Big Boss was kept in a coma and fed suggestion to make him believe he truly was Big Boss. When the real Big Boss woke up, the Medic was likely taken off his sedation regimen.
After Big Boss woke up, Ocelot filled him in on Zero's plan to use a body double to keep him safe. Snake was initially hesitant, but Ocelot convinced him that the Medic was willing to sacrifice his life for Big Boss and all his ambitions then, and would gladly do it now if he were allowed to have a say.
Snake consented to use the body double and would allow him to completely assume the Big Boss mantle while setting the ground work for his own true nation in order to combat Cipher's will on a global scale.
Snake had to assure that the medic survived and the plan was to use the attack on the hospital as a test fire to see if the medic could cut it as the Phantom Big Boss. Things spiraled way out of control because XOF was more than thorough. They sent their own one man infiltration assassin in, then a whole damn force, and finally the man on fire. Considering the medic escaped alive, he passed with flying colors.
After sending Big Boss on his way and setting up Punished Snake, he commenced his usual double agent ritual of self-hypnosis so that he could effectively avoid being caught in a lie.
This is when TPP's main story takes place.
My Theory:
After Diamond Dogs is well established and the threat of XOF has essentially passed in late 1984, possibly while participating in the Mozambique Civil War as a mercenary force, Phantom Big Boss is given a tape from real Big Boss that explains the situation, thanks him sincerely, tells him they'll change the future together, and passes on the plans for Operation Intrude N313.
Upon listening to the tape for Operation Intrude N313, Phantom Big Boss takes on a more "evil" persona, and Diamond Dogs is transformed into Outer Heaven.
Phantom Big Boss may have been given the same role as The Boss prior to him, but instead of Volgin launching a nuke and calling for a change of plans, Solid Snake was simply too successful. Phantom Big Boss then deviates. He tries to have Snake exfiltrate Outer Heaven or die before discovering his secret.
When Solid Snake discover's Big Boss's existence, he absolutely must die. Unfortunately, he's too much for Phantom Big Boss to handle. This means the real Big Boss has to fake his own death and loses all of the resources Cipher (through FOXHOUND) leaves at his disposal, and his fingers come off the pulse of his enemy. It's a bit of a disaster.
Big Boss eventually makes his move with Zanzibar Land. This sets the stage for Miller, now returned to Cipher, to make good on his claim that Big Boss can go to hell, by aiding the clone that's going against him. This cement's Miller on the Patriots side of Cicpher (as opposed to the Big Boss/Ocelot/Eva side), and eventually leads to his death at the hands of Ocelot prior to the events of MGS1.
What was Big Boss doing when Phantom Big Boss had his mantle? Probably making a tidy profit off the Mozambique Civil War and all those regional conflicts history recorded him in. In fact, he was probably probably working both sides with his Phantom on the other end. If he was working with Phantom Big Boss in secret, it would make sense that they pooled resources to start work on building their new deterrent and nation.
Why did Big Boss head the Intrude Operation then? The Patriots were bound to eventually catch on to the Outer Heaven plot, and by being the man in charge of stopping Outer Heaven, he could easily stall for time until they were ready. After all, they needed more time to get Metal Gear Functional. He sent Grey Fox in on Operation Intrude N312 because it would look like he was putting in the utmost effort, but Frank was probably in on the whole deal.
The Patriots possibly pushed for Solid Snake to be used for Operation Intrude N313, which Big Boss would be okay with. Solid Snake may have been a clone of the greatest soldier to ever live, but he was the greenest member of FOXHOUND, so he shouldn't have been too big a threat. Unfortunately for Big Boss, this lead to the birth of the next legendary soldier.
First of all, Cipher was a massive organization by the time of GZ, and some of those parts could function autonomously, without ero's consent and/or against his wishes.
The attack on MSF was exclusively the work of Skull Face as a means of provoking Zero. He's very candid about the fact he wants to end Zero and take everything from him. Big Boss is the most important person in Zero's life, even after their little lover's spat over LET.
Zero was furious and sent Skull Face out to pasture. The man was a great asset and very talented, so he could possibly be of use later. Afterall, this man was given the same parasites that gave several members of the Cobra Unit their powers, specifically The End.
This exile to Africa was what gave Skull Face the chance to encounter the vocal cord parasites. It also gave him even more freedom thanks to being out of sight and out of mind. Zero wasn't terribly concerned about his own safety because he thought his defense was perfect.
Zero created Phantom Big Boss, not the Real Big Boss. Phantom Big Boss was kept in a coma and fed suggestion to make him believe he truly was Big Boss. When the real Big Boss woke up, the Medic was likely taken off his sedation regimen.
After Big Boss woke up, Ocelot filled him in on Zero's plan to use a body double to keep him safe. Snake was initially hesitant, but Ocelot convinced him that the Medic was willing to sacrifice his life for Big Boss and all his ambitions then, and would gladly do it now if he were allowed to have a say.
Snake consented to use the body double and would allow him to completely assume the Big Boss mantle while setting the ground work for his own true nation in order to combat Cipher's will on a global scale.
Snake had to assure that the medic survived and the plan was to use the attack on the hospital as a test fire to see if the medic could cut it as the Phantom Big Boss. Things spiraled way out of control because XOF was more than thorough. They sent their own one man infiltration assassin in, then a whole damn force, and finally the man on fire. Considering the medic escaped alive, he passed with flying colors.
After sending Big Boss on his way and setting up Punished Snake, he commenced his usual double agent ritual of self-hypnosis so that he could effectively avoid being caught in a lie.
This is when TPP's main story takes place.
My Theory:
After Diamond Dogs is well established and the threat of XOF has essentially passed in late 1984, possibly while participating in the Mozambique Civil War as a mercenary force, Phantom Big Boss is given a tape from real Big Boss that explains the situation, thanks him sincerely, tells him they'll change the future together, and passes on the plans for Operation Intrude N313.
Upon listening to the tape for Operation Intrude N313, Phantom Big Boss takes on a more "evil" persona, and Diamond Dogs is transformed into Outer Heaven.
Phantom Big Boss may have been given the same role as The Boss prior to him, but instead of Volgin launching a nuke and calling for a change of plans, Solid Snake was simply too successful. Phantom Big Boss then deviates. He tries to have Snake exfiltrate Outer Heaven or die before discovering his secret.
When Solid Snake discover's Big Boss's existence, he absolutely must die. Unfortunately, he's too much for Phantom Big Boss to handle. This means the real Big Boss has to fake his own death and loses all of the resources Cipher (through FOXHOUND) leaves at his disposal, and his fingers come off the pulse of his enemy. It's a bit of a disaster.
Big Boss eventually makes his move with Zanzibar Land. This sets the stage for Miller, now returned to Cipher, to make good on his claim that Big Boss can go to hell, by aiding the clone that's going against him. This cement's Miller on the Patriots side of Cicpher (as opposed to the Big Boss/Ocelot/Eva side), and eventually leads to his death at the hands of Ocelot prior to the events of MGS1.
What was Big Boss doing when Phantom Big Boss had his mantle? Probably making a tidy profit off the Mozambique Civil War and all those regional conflicts history recorded him in. In fact, he was probably probably working both sides with his Phantom on the other end. If he was working with Phantom Big Boss in secret, it would make sense that they pooled resources to start work on building their new deterrent and nation.
Why did Big Boss head the Intrude Operation then? The Patriots were bound to eventually catch on to the Outer Heaven plot, and by being the man in charge of stopping Outer Heaven, he could easily stall for time until they were ready. After all, they needed more time to get Metal Gear Functional. He sent Grey Fox in on Operation Intrude N312 because it would look like he was putting in the utmost effort, but Frank was probably in on the whole deal.
The Patriots possibly pushed for Solid Snake to be used for Operation Intrude N313, which Big Boss would be okay with. Solid Snake may have been a clone of the greatest soldier to ever live, but he was the greenest member of FOXHOUND, so he shouldn't have been too big a threat. Unfortunately for Big Boss, this lead to the birth of the next legendary soldier.
To think that all Venom had to do beat Mantis was to change the controller port.
Well the parasites can destroy an entire language...
Metal Gears are getting destroyed left and right lol.
Well the parasites can destroy an entire language...
Metal Gears are getting destroyed left and right lol.
i just like how it plays. the sandbox missions especially, lots to explore and try out.
But really... it kinda makes me excited for Hitman, actually...
The, er, big Metal Gear.
That's when they played that line in trailers, when he was about.
Don't worry, you're not alone.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Hahahahha
Ocelot: Well Boss this kid is psychic, you know about ESP?
Venom: *thinks back to when an actual ghost gave him the radio frequency needed to unlock his cell door*
Venom: Shut the fuck up Ocelot that's stupid.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Metal Gears can cause untold destruction but removing language prevents resistance against it. Historically, removing a native language is the easiest way to decimate ethnic groups.
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