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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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MetroidPrimeRib said:
Welcome to what people have been saying since MGS4 came out! A vampire is too much but psychics and dead men are cool

Also remember that The Fear also can use photosynthesis yet somehow doesn't need to dress in ripped stockings and a bra
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Wasn't that the End? And Quiet got burned by a chemical fire and turned into a Skull and has to breath through a her skin. Not that it completely justifies everything but the End comparison is weak.
 
plebegamer said:
There's a lot of confusion over the order of events and the why's of soe things:

First of all, Cipher was a massive organization by the time of GZ, and some of those parts could function autonomously, without ero's consent and/or against his wishes.

The attack on MSF was exclusively the work of Skull Face as a means of provoking Zero. He's very candid about the fact he wants to end Zero and take everything from him. Big Boss is the most important person in Zero's life, even after their little lover's spat over LET.

Zero was furious and sent Skull Face out to pasture. The man was a great asset and very talented, so he could possibly be of use later. Afterall, this man was given the same parasites that gave several members of the Cobra Unit their powers, specifically The End.

This exile to Africa was what gave Skull Face the chance to encounter the vocal cord parasites. It also gave him even more freedom thanks to being out of sight and out of mind. Zero wasn't terribly concerned about his own safety because he thought his defense was perfect.

Zero created Phantom Big Boss, not the Real Big Boss. Phantom Big Boss was kept in a coma and fed suggestion to make him believe he truly was Big Boss. When the real Big Boss woke up, the Medic was likely taken off his sedation regimen.

After Big Boss woke up, Ocelot filled him in on Zero's plan to use a body double to keep him safe. Snake was initially hesitant, but Ocelot convinced him that the Medic was willing to sacrifice his life for Big Boss and all his ambitions then, and would gladly do it now if he were allowed to have a say.

Snake consented to use the body double and would allow him to completely assume the Big Boss mantle while setting the ground work for his own true nation in order to combat Cipher's will on a global scale.

Snake had to assure that the medic survived and the plan was to use the attack on the hospital as a test fire to see if the medic could cut it as the Phantom Big Boss. Things spiraled way out of control because XOF was more than thorough. They sent their own one man infiltration assassin in, then a whole damn force, and finally the man on fire. Considering the medic escaped alive, he passed with flying colors.

After sending Big Boss on his way and setting up Punished Snake, he commenced his usual double agent ritual of self-hypnosis so that he could effectively avoid being caught in a lie.

This is when TPP's main story takes place.


My Theory:

After Diamond Dogs is well established and the threat of XOF has essentially passed in late 1984, possibly while participating in the Mozambique Civil War as a mercenary force, Phantom Big Boss is given a tape from real Big Boss that explains the situation, thanks him sincerely, tells him they'll change the future together, and passes on the plans for Operation Intrude N313.

Upon listening to the tape for Operation Intrude N313, Phantom Big Boss takes on a more "evil" persona, and Diamond Dogs is transformed into Outer Heaven.

Phantom Big Boss may have been given the same role as The Boss prior to him, but instead of Volgin launching a nuke and calling for a change of plans, Solid Snake was simply too successful. Phantom Big Boss then deviates. He tries to have Snake exfiltrate Outer Heaven or die before discovering his secret.

When Solid Snake discover's Big Boss's existence, he absolutely must die. Unfortunately, he's too much for Phantom Big Boss to handle. This means the real Big Boss has to fake his own death and loses all of the resources Cipher (through FOXHOUND) leaves at his disposal, and his fingers come off the pulse of his enemy. It's a bit of a disaster.

Big Boss eventually makes his move with Zanzibar Land. This sets the stage for Miller, now returned to Cipher, to make good on his claim that Big Boss can go to hell, by aiding the clone that's going against him. This cement's Miller on the Patriots side of Cicpher (as opposed to the Big Boss/Ocelot/Eva side), and eventually leads to his death at the hands of Ocelot prior to the events of MGS1.




What was Big Boss doing when Phantom Big Boss had his mantle? Probably making a tidy profit off the Mozambique Civil War and all those regional conflicts history recorded him in. In fact, he was probably probably working both sides with his Phantom on the other end. If he was working with Phantom Big Boss in secret, it would make sense that they pooled resources to start work on building their new deterrent and nation.

Why did Big Boss head the Intrude Operation then? The Patriots were bound to eventually catch on to the Outer Heaven plot, and by being the man in charge of stopping Outer Heaven, he could easily stall for time until they were ready. After all, they needed more time to get Metal Gear Functional. He sent Grey Fox in on Operation Intrude N312 because it would look like he was putting in the utmost effort, but Frank was probably in on the whole deal.

The Patriots possibly pushed for Solid Snake to be used for Operation Intrude N313, which Big Boss would be okay with. Solid Snake may have been a clone of the greatest soldier to ever live, but he was the greenest member of FOXHOUND, so he shouldn't have been too big a threat. Unfortunately for Big Boss, this lead to the birth of the next legendary soldier.
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Great summary. Wraps things up nice and concisely.

I still like to think the locker room scene takes place in '95 though. It's really up to interpretation but I don't like thinking Intrude N313 was planned out years in advance, down to the name.
 
Things missing from MGSV to date:

  • Episode 51
  • Ending Narration from 1995/Episode 46
  • Coherent structure
    My preferred structure would have been
    Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
    Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler (longer intro, plus maybe playing through his rehabilitation and trying to regain memories) - Early 1984
    Chapter 2 - Afghanistan (introduce Miller, Quiet, and Huey - Sehalanthropus) - Early/Mid 1984
    Chapter 3 - Africa (Introduce the rest, plus set the stage for the Boss/Zero/Skullface confrontation) - Mid/Late 1984
    Chapter 4 - Skull-Face Confrontation (a series of epic narrative missions that have us eventually coming face-to-skullface with the lead antagonist). Late 1984. Set some of the missions earlier here, so that Quiet's Last Stand and the parasitic attack happen here, putting intense pressure on Venom to finally take Skullface down. I'd love it if they introduced a third area here... what was a geopolitical hotspot in 1984 outside of Angola and Afghanistan?
    Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
    Epilogue - Outer Heaven     - Sometime between 1985 and 1995. Introduction of Solid Snake, Venom Snake's final stand.

    Each section should put together further parts of the narrative and have their own mysteries to solve. Treat a chapter like a television season, and each mission as an episode.
  • Motorcycle - This is a game that is built for a motorcycle. A Triumph Bonneville, customized.
  • Battle Gear
  • Proper Boss Battles - Nothing even approaches stuff from the past games.
  • More Surrealism - The above idea for Mother Base being an actual base and a memory palace where Venom walks through a blurring of his own memories, Jack's memories, and nightmares.
 
I really feel like this game should have been structured SOOO differently.

The first 10-15 hours should have just been a more condensed version of the main story beats. Just say that Cypher/XOF have too much manpower over the areas at this point so you can't use the open world stuff. All the levels are set intrusion points under as controlled of conditions as possible. So basically linear as possible story mode for the first 15 hours or so. Give the player a few side missions but nothing that is full open-world.

Put the player on a wild ride with very few actual mysteries explained (maybe just roll the main story beats of chapter 2 into 1 as there aren't even that many anyways). At the end you are victorious and XOF pulls out their heavy troops so that the open world opens up. Just say they have constant air support up until that moment and only after you beat skullface are you able to use your heli freely to drop in and out.

This then opens up the open world gameplay with a whole plethora of areas and more side missions that the player can then use to hunt down witnesses, tapes, etc. to slowly unravel the mysteries that were not tied up in the main story.

Just my 2 cents...but I really just can't imagine what they were thinking with the current mission/story design.
 
Zabant said:
So what was 'the weapon to surpass metal gear'?

The parasites? Don't see how they're even really comparable to a Metal Gear.
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It was probably a double twist. We're made to think it was the parasites, which can be the most powerful biological weapon of the time, wiping whole languages, cultures, and ideologies off the face of the earth. However, on the topic, Huey talks about the genetic research and Snakes genes being researched there.

The weapon to surpass Metal Gear was the mapping on the hman genome and the isolation of specific genes. This would allow for the creation of super soldiers, like the sons of Big Boss, and a biological weapon that was harmless to everyone except the desired target.

Zero claimed genetics was superior to the parasite because of this extreme precision afforded by it, as opposed to heavy handedly squashing entire groups of people to take out the troublemakers.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
[*]Coherent structure
My preferred structure would have been
Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler (longer intro, plus maybe playing through his rehabilitation and trying to regain memories) - Early 1984
Chapter 2 - Afghanistan (introduce Miller, Quiet, and Huey - Sehalanthropus) - Early/Mid 1984
Chapter 3 - Africa (Introduce the rest, plus set the stage for the Boss/Zero/Skullface confrontation) - Mid/Late 1984
Chapter 4 - Skull-Face Confrontation (a series of epic narrative missions that have us eventually coming face-to-skullface with the lead antagonist). Late 1984. Set some of the missions earlier here, so that Quiet's Last Stand and the parasitic attack happen here, putting intense pressure on Venom to finally take Skullface down. I'd love it if they introduced a third area here... what was a geopolitical hotspot in 1984 outside of Angola and Afghanistan?
Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
Epilogue - Outer Heaven - Sometime between 1985 and 1995. Introduction of Solid Snake, Venom Snake's final stand.
Click to expand...

And that's the problem with MGSV. Plot points every which way for no reason. Like seriously that is the issue with the story. Anything else is just typical Kojima bs and particular stuff that ticks people off.
 
 
MetroidPrimeRib said:
Yes it was, the dudes in the Devils House had it as well, they were directly feeding the language to the vocal cord parasites.

I don't think they said that for Chico but thats the reason for the Devil's House.
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Uhh, its the HEADPHONES that are jacked into chico's chest. Not the walkman....

You even see that when Skully shows up to give Chico the walkman as a gift, he takes the earphones OUT of his chest and plugs them into the walkman so he can listen to his tape of Nicola & Bart.

In the devils house it's the audio end of the headphones that are inserted directly into the vocal chords. not the other way around.

Also, GZ takes place before the parasite research stuff even happens
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Things missing from MGSV to date:

  • Episode 51
  • Ending Narration from 1995/Episode 46
  • Coherent structure
    My preferred structure would have been
    Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
    Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler (longer intro, plus maybe playing through his rehabilitation and trying to regain memories) - Early 1984
    Chapter 2 - Afghanistan (introduce Miller, Quiet, and Huey - Sehalanthropus) - Early/Mid 1984
    Chapter 3 - Africa (Introduce the rest, plus set the stage for the Boss/Zero/Skullface confrontation) - Mid/Late 1984
    Chapter 4 - Skull-Face Confrontation (a series of epic narrative missions that have us eventually coming face-to-skullface with the lead antagonist). Late 1984. Set some of the missions earlier here, so that Quiet's Last Stand and the parasitic attack happen here, putting intense pressure on Venom to finally take Skullface down. I'd love it if they introduced a third area here... what was a geopolitical hotspot in 1984 outside of Angola and Afghanistan?
    Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
    Epilogue - Outer Heaven     - Sometime between 1985 and 1995. Introduction of Solid Snake, Venom Snake's final stand.

    Each section should put together further parts of the narrative and have their own mysteries to solve. Treat a chapter like a television season, and each mission as an episode.
  • Motorcycle - This is a game that is built for a motorcycle. A Triumph Bonneville, customized.
  • Battle Gear
  • Proper Boss Battles - Nothing even approaches stuff from the past games.
  • More Surrealism - The above idea for Mother Base being an actual base and a memory palace where Venom walks through a blurring of his own memories, Jack's memories, and nightmares.
Click to expand...
This would have been perfect. I also still hold to the theory that the game was originally planned to lead right into MG1 at some point during development.

Tangential to that, the Solid Snake mod for PC is pretty much exactly what I imagine a green, Metal Gear 1 era Snake to look like.

Metal_Gear_MSX_Snake_portrait.png


lagg1mc.png
 
MikeBreezy92 said:
And that's the problem with MGSV. Plot points every which way for no reason. Like seriously that is the issue with the story. Anything else is just typical Kojima bs and particular stuff that ticks people off.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's very frustrating. Honestly? There's a great story buried underneath this suffocating structure. The Venom Snake twist is great. You have great characters, a great antagonist, but it all... falls apart kinda? Kojima needed an editorial hand.

The plot points need to lead into one another, and it feels like they don't.
 
SolVanderlyn said:
This would have been perfect. I also still hold to the theory that the game was originally planned to lead right into MG1 at some point during development.

Tangential to that, the Solid Snake mod for PC is pretty much exactly what I imagine a green, Metal Gear 1 era Snake to look like.

Metal_Gear_MSX_Snake_portrait.png


lagg1mc.png
Click to expand...

He looks pretty much perfect. I can just imagine Solid Snake sneaking towards Outer Heaven, with Big Boss' voice in his ear, telling him something pertinent to the themes of MGS while Venom Snake looks in the mirror, realizing that this is the end of the road for him, and accepting his part to play.

"What's the mission, sir?"

"Snake, you have to stop the rise of Outer Heaven and neutralize the WMDs before they can be used."

"Sounds like a job for an army, sir."

"I have faith in you, son."
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Yeah, it's very frustrating. Honestly? There's a great story buried underneath this suffocating structure. The Venom Snake twist is great. You have great characters, a great antagonist, but it all... falls apart kinda? Kojima needed an editorial hand.

The plot points need to lead into one another, and it feels like they don't.
Click to expand...

They really don't after that huge ass Chapter 1 lol. And what bugs me is that Peace Walker had this down perfectly.

There's a lot of good shit and theme-ing that's ruined by the non-coherent plotting.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
Cut the filler missions in the main episodes, restructure the episodes and chapters, done. Also add the missing content and make it lead up to MG1.
Click to expand...

How dare you! that story about an arms dealer meeting a military commander at the airport is incredibly enthralling.
 
Maybe Skullface has the black thing om his face that Quiet and Code Talker make appear, but his is permanent.

That's why he wears that weird mask thing.
 
MetroidPrimeRib said:
Yes it was, the dudes in the Devils House had it as well, they were directly feeding the language to the vocal cord parasites.

I don't think they said that for Chico but thats the reason for the Devil's House.
Click to expand...

Chico's was an audio out jack. The Devil's House had headphones playing into the throat.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
Cut the filler missions in the main episodes, restructure the episodes and chapters, done. Also add the missing content and make it lead up to MG1.
Click to expand...

Typically a DC won't add content, just restructure it to a more coherent vision. So they could do the cuts but for the most part even some story missions in chapter 2 would need to be excised to make the story more congruent.
 
tuxfool said:
Typically a DC won't add content, just restructure it to a more coherent vision. So they could do the cuts but for the most part chapter 2 would need to be excised to make the story more congruent.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't it add content ? There are ton's of Director's Cut where they add new content in movies.
 
Chapter is such a misnomer.

What book only has two chapters? Game doesn't even really have a proper three act structure... Well, it does, but it's weird and meandering.

Should have been structured like Breaking Bad, actually. Beginning, transformation, rise, fall, end state.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Chapter is such a misnomer.

What book only has two chapters? Game doesn't even really have a proper three act structure... Well, it does, but it's weird and meandering.

Should have been structured like Breaking Bad, actually. Beginning, transformation, rise, fall, end state.
Click to expand...

k77nT.png


Probably just a whole chapter to Kojima peacing the fuck out of there.
 
I feel like going full on episodic would have done this game a LOT of good, and probably allowed it to be as big as it seemingly was intended to be.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
I had the feeling, playing those main ops, that a lot of them felt the same and didn't really bring the story forward.
Click to expand...

They didn't really have to bring the story forward tbh. The ones that did, did and the ones that don't were just elaborate scripted side ops that offer more GMP than Side ops tend to that somehow tied into the plot in some for or fashion.
 
akidnamededdy said:
Hahahahha

Ocelot: Well Boss this kid is psychic, you know about ESP?

Venom: *thinks back to when an actual ghost gave him the radio frequency needed to unlock his cell door*

Venom: Shut the fuck up Ocelot that's stupid.
Click to expand...

Thing is, they actually gave him a very vague run down of BB's past accomplishments.
Like a quick read of his Metal Gear Wiki page.
 
Miller and Huey, the two most fleshed out characters in this game, have the distinction of having the two most embarrassing deaths in the series.

By the way, was Huey his real name? I thought it was a nickname Strangelove gave him, but in this game it's treated like his real name.
 
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