• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's a lot of confusion over the order of events and the why's of soe things:

First of all, Cipher was a massive organization by the time of GZ, and some of those parts could function autonomously, without ero's consent and/or against his wishes.

The attack on MSF was exclusively the work of Skull Face as a means of provoking Zero. He's very candid about the fact he wants to end Zero and take everything from him. Big Boss is the most important person in Zero's life, even after their little lover's spat over LET.

Zero was furious and sent Skull Face out to pasture. The man was a great asset and very talented, so he could possibly be of use later. Afterall, this man was given the same parasites that gave several members of the Cobra Unit their powers, specifically The End.

This exile to Africa was what gave Skull Face the chance to encounter the vocal cord parasites. It also gave him even more freedom thanks to being out of sight and out of mind. Zero wasn't terribly concerned about his own safety because he thought his defense was perfect.

Zero created Phantom Big Boss, not the Real Big Boss. Phantom Big Boss was kept in a coma and fed suggestion to make him believe he truly was Big Boss. When the real Big Boss woke up, the Medic was likely taken off his sedation regimen.

After Big Boss woke up, Ocelot filled him in on Zero's plan to use a body double to keep him safe. Snake was initially hesitant, but Ocelot convinced him that the Medic was willing to sacrifice his life for Big Boss and all his ambitions then, and would gladly do it now if he were allowed to have a say.

Snake consented to use the body double and would allow him to completely assume the Big Boss mantle while setting the ground work for his own true nation in order to combat Cipher's will on a global scale.

Snake had to assure that the medic survived and the plan was to use the attack on the hospital as a test fire to see if the medic could cut it as the Phantom Big Boss. Things spiraled way out of control because XOF was more than thorough. They sent their own one man infiltration assassin in, then a whole damn force, and finally the man on fire. Considering the medic escaped alive, he passed with flying colors.

After sending Big Boss on his way and setting up Punished Snake, he commenced his usual double agent ritual of self-hypnosis so that he could effectively avoid being caught in a lie.

This is when TPP's main story takes place.


My Theory:

After Diamond Dogs is well established and the threat of XOF has essentially passed in late 1984, possibly while participating in the Mozambique Civil War as a mercenary force, Phantom Big Boss is given a tape from real Big Boss that explains the situation, thanks him sincerely, tells him they'll change the future together, and passes on the plans for Operation Intrude N313.

Upon listening to the tape for Operation Intrude N313, Phantom Big Boss takes on a more "evil" persona, and Diamond Dogs is transformed into Outer Heaven.

Phantom Big Boss may have been given the same role as The Boss prior to him, but instead of Volgin launching a nuke and calling for a change of plans, Solid Snake was simply too successful. Phantom Big Boss then deviates. He tries to have Snake exfiltrate Outer Heaven or die before discovering his secret.

When Solid Snake discover's Big Boss's existence, he absolutely must die. Unfortunately, he's too much for Phantom Big Boss to handle. This means the real Big Boss has to fake his own death and loses all of the resources Cipher (through FOXHOUND) leaves at his disposal, and his fingers come off the pulse of his enemy. It's a bit of a disaster.

Big Boss eventually makes his move with Zanzibar Land. This sets the stage for Miller, now returned to Cipher, to make good on his claim that Big Boss can go to hell, by aiding the clone that's going against him. This cement's Miller on the Patriots side of Cicpher (as opposed to the Big Boss/Ocelot/Eva side), and eventually leads to his death at the hands of Ocelot prior to the events of MGS1.




What was Big Boss doing when Phantom Big Boss had his mantle? Probably making a tidy profit off the Mozambique Civil War and all those regional conflicts history recorded him in. In fact, he was probably probably working both sides with his Phantom on the other end. If he was working with Phantom Big Boss in secret, it would make sense that they pooled resources to start work on building their new deterrent and nation.

Why did Big Boss head the Intrude Operation then? The Patriots were bound to eventually catch on to the Outer Heaven plot, and by being the man in charge of stopping Outer Heaven, he could easily stall for time until they were ready. After all, they needed more time to get Metal Gear Functional. He sent Grey Fox in on Operation Intrude N312 because it would look like he was putting in the utmost effort, but Frank was probably in on the whole deal.

The Patriots possibly pushed for Solid Snake to be used for Operation Intrude N313, which Big Boss would be okay with. Solid Snake may have been a clone of the greatest soldier to ever live, but he was the greenest member of FOXHOUND, so he shouldn't have been too big a threat. Unfortunately for Big Boss, this lead to the birth of the next legendary soldier.

Nice summary.
 
Since the details of Miller's death aren't explicitly stated I can't say he has a embarassing death. Besides, he's missing an arm and a leg and is maybe going blind. Not exactly embarassing to be killed in that state, whether it's by Ocelot or Liquid or even a squad of Genome Soldiers
 
Since the details of Miller's death aren't explicitly stated I can't say he has a embarassing death. Besides, he's missing an arm and a leg and is maybe going blind. Not exactly embarassing to be killed in that state, whether it's by Ocelot or Liquid or even a squad of Genome Soldiers
He died if brain freeze as he was eating to much icecream watching Titanic seeing his Jack drown.
 
I deleted my save on PS4 the other day so I could avoid losing Quiet this time. I have Mission 10 and Side Op 63 "Make Contact with Emmerich" available.

Since I didn't even think to not do this side op right away last time, and I know Mission 11 will trigger if I go to the ruins to fight Quiet... I wonder if I even have to extract and recruit Huey at all for the story to progress? If not, then I wonder if I can totally avoid what he does to inadvertently mutate the parasites for Mission 43.

I seriously doubt it. There's no way the game would let you get this flexible when it doesn't have a New Game+
 
I think the most deceptive thing is how much the marketing played up Liquid and even Solid Snake. Neither have any real impact as far as what turned up in the game. Considering that Kojima cut those trailers, I have to hold him accountable for it. Let this just sink in. There exists a game in which Johnny is a more integral character to the plot than Liquid is in a game that he is in.
 
Somebody should analyze the cutscenes in this game. Let's just say for the sake of argument that there is a total of 2 hours of cutscenes in this game. How would you estimate that time between two categories: story and cinematic flair. I feel like an an hour and thirty minutes of the time is used on cinematic flair. Skull Face's monologue and the interrogations feel like almost all of the story exposition in the cut scenes.
 
I think the most deceptive thing is how much the marketing played up Liquid and even Solid Snake. Neither have any real impact as far as what turned up in the game. Considering that Kojima cut those trailers, I have to hold him accountable for it. Let this just sink in. There exists a game in which Johnny is a more integral character to the plot than Liquid is in a game that he is in.

Liquid's story is the most disappointing to me. I love Liquid, such a cool villain. Kojima has always said he regretted killing off liquid and I thought he would use this as an opportunity to expand on the character...but nope. Instead Liquid doesn't even meets his dad (and even the Venom relationship is left unexplored) and just goes on hangs out with Psycho Mantis...which is also left mostly unexplained.
 
The Medic is Johnny's dad.
The pieces are all falling into place...
yYArBP9.png

Venom Snake? More like... the legendary Johnny Boss.

Big Johnny?

Vic John?
 
I think the most deceptive thing is how much the marketing played up Liquid and even Solid Snake. Neither have any real impact as far as what turned up in the game. Considering that Kojima cut those trailers, I have to hold him accountable for it. Let this just sink in. There exists a game in which Johnny is a more integral character to the plot than Liquid is in a game that he is in.
Seriously he knew damn what people would think when he showed two Liquids and then straight up mentioning LET, it was the trailer stinger dammnit. Such a lust for misleading.


Kojima needs a job just making trailers.
 
Big Boss' and Venom's falling out was actually due to a conflict over the name of Outer Heaven. Venom wanted it to be called Johnny Heaven. Big Boss vehemently disagreed.
 
Big Boss' and Venom's falling out was actually due to a conflict over the name of Outer Heaven. Venom wanted it to be called Johnny Heaven. Big Boss vehemently disagreed.

Actually, they couldn't decide whether to play Schubert or Schumann while on the base...

SPOILER:
It's quartet/cello music, not fiddle. I played you.

Spoiler number 2:
this might be the most erudite joke in this thread
 
I wish the story played on the fact that you aren't Big Boss more. I think there should have been more things that played on this more. Eli not testing positive as a clone or related to Snake was a good one. Maybe have a scene where Snake smokes a cigar and has a kind of "Hmm, I don't like these as much as I recall." Or maybe some dialogue where Big Boss has trouble recalling something and is unsure if it is due to his head injury. Maybe a scene with Psycho Mantis messing with fake Big Boss and it is hard to tell if it is fake Big Boss' real memories or just Psycho Mantis messing with him. And ultimately, the way he finds out. Perhaps the snake bite could have caused a hallucination that gave fake Big Boss some of his memories back. Things don't make sense and then you decide to look into it on your own without informing Mother Base. Perhaps you return to the hospital and find out that you are not Big Boss there. Something like that would be far better than the game just going "Suprise! We tricked you!" at the end.
 
Damn Kojima, Ocelot is so fucking useless in this game he doesn't even use his revolver even once. Also Shotguns-Shells.

I think the shotgun shells are for the guns he uses. In their description it says they use shotgun ammo.

But yeah what a fucking waste of a great character. I mean at least make him useful in one mission.
 
Ocelot is used only for story exposition. Infeel like he should have had more agency in what a fake Big Boss was doing in order to be secretly helping the real Big Boss. This is why the self-hypnosis stuff is stupid. It would be better if he were just lying the whole time and was pulling strings behind the scenes.
 
I wish the story played on the fact that you aren't Big Boss more. I think there should have been more things that played on this more. Eli not testing positive as a clone or related to Snake was a good one. Maybe have a scene where Snake smokes a cigar and has a kind of "Hmm, I don't like these as much as I recall." Or maybe some dialogue where Big Boss has trouble recalling something and is unsure if it is due to his head injury. Maybe a scene with Psycho Mantis messing with fake Big Boss and it is hard to tell if it is fake Big Boss' real memories or just Psycho Mantis messing with him. And ultimately, the way he finds out. Perhaps the snake bite could have caused a hallucination that gave fake Big Boss some of his memories back. Things don't make sense and then you decide to look into it on your own without informing Mother Base. Perhaps you return to the hospital and find out that you are not Big Boss there. Something like that would be far better than the game just going "Suprise! We tricked you!" at the end.

Do you mean for Venom or the Player? Because the trailers (Especially the music) were so heavy handed in regards to that, it seemed pretty clear to me you were suppose to go into the game feeling like nothing is quite right with Snake's identity and that the point was to find out how or why it isn't quite right.

Venom's silence and lack of emotion is really evident as a "I don't feel like myself" hint, picking up Kaz and him being like "Tell me the thing" and then you just say nothing in response, or you can press triangle and say "Kept you waiting huh?" and Kaz is like "It IS you afterall" Followed by Venom pleading Miller to tell him what to do, tapes implying that Venom has a detachment issue regarding the past as he doesn't feel like what he remembers is even real.

I can go on, but I thought the entire game was suppose to be "GEE WHATS WRONG, IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU DON'T SEEM LIKE YOURSELF HUH? BUT WHATEVER BOSS I BELIEVE IN YOU!" the whole time.
Quiet, an interaction only Venom has and not Big Boss, is the only times he really emotes at all.
Not to mention the Boss AI pod straight up knows you're not really Snake when in Peace Walker her immediately recognizing you was a thing.

My gripe with the game is Kojima made it so vague that it becomes so easy to dismiss so many things about the character and story, I feel like I get it and I enjoy it, but he made it all TOO broad and "suble" so Venom just sounds like Keifer was too expensive to voice Venom the right way or something, which wasn't the case.
 
Ocelot Buddy would've been great. He could've been diretly in the field like D-Dog, able to get going on his own to knock-out and interogate people or just go guns blazing with you. He was really wasted in this game.
 
Do you mean for Venom or the Player? Because the trailers (Especially the music) were so heavy handed in regards to that, it seemed pretty clear to me you were suppose to go into the game feeling like nothing is quite right and that the point was to find out how or why it isn't quite right.

Venom's silence and lack of emotion is really evident as a "I don't feel like myself" hint, picking up Kaz and him being like "Tell me the thing" and then you just say nothing in response, or you can press triangle and say "Kept you waiting huh?" and Kaz is like "It IS you afterall" Followed by Venom pleading Miller to tell him what to do, tapes implying that Venom has a detachment issue regarding the past as he doesn't feel like what he remembers is even real.

I can go on, but I thought the entire game was suppose to be "GEE WHATS WRONG, IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU DON'T SEEM LIKE YOURSELF HUH? BUT WHATEVER BOSS I BELIEVE IN YOU!" the whole time.

Quiet, an interaction only Venom has and not Big Boss, is the only times he really emotes at all.
The problem with that is how is the player supposed to tell what is "this Snake seems different" and "Man, Keifer's Snake is different". What you're saying would make more sense if David Hayter voiced the real Snake and was as chatty as usual. The real Big Boss is as emotionless for the little we see and hear from him on tapes. And even then, I think the revelation is done very poorly. The game just goes "Hey, want me to tell you the twist? Play this mission called The Truth."
 
So what is the deal with Huey, exactly?

His character is drastically different than in Peace Walker. He constantly lies, yet helps build Battle Gear. Has he killed Strangelove? It appears so, but listening to Strangelove's tape I'm not particularly sure, it seems she wanted to die too. Pushed to the brink by Huey and Skull Face, I suppose?

Why did he enlist the children to help and repair Sahalanthropus? What was his aim?

Suddenly he pops up on the radio during mission 43 telling Big Boss he is insane for killing his own men. Was it all a hallucination?

And then he gets exiled and has this rant about how everyone is crazy but him. Did he know that it was the phantom Big Boss?

Why is he so... weird in MGSV? That moment when he kills Skull Face is just bizarre. In fact, every cutscene with him is bizarre in some way.
 
Huey is a shill. He is interwsted in building weapons and has some victim syndrome that makes him ignore all bad he does. Everything was just stacked against him. He will suck your sick if you want, but has no trouble to suvk other dicks when they are more oppurtune. He is like Psycho Mantis, only with dick sucking.
 
So what is the deal with Huey, exactly?

His character is drastically different than in Peace Walker. He constantly lies, yet helps build Battle Gear. Has he killed Strangelove? It appears so, but listening to Strangelove's tape I'm not particularly sure, it seems she wanted to die too. Pushed to the brink by Huey and Skull Face, I suppose?

Why did he enlist the children to help and repair Sahalanthropus? What was his aim?

Suddenly he pops up on the radio during mission 43 telling Big Boss he is insane for killing his own men. Was it all a hallucination?

And then he gets exiled and has this rant about how everyone is crazy but him. Did he know that it was the phantom Big Boss?

Why is he so... weird in MGSV? That moment when he kills Skull Face is just bizarre. In fact, every cutscene with him is bizarre in some way.

"Ha. Ha. Revenge!!!" - worst line reading in a Metal Gear Solid game?
 
As far as cheesy lines go, I thought Skullface was fantastic, I honestly think he was a great character with a disappointing end, he was ridiculous in all the right Metal Gear ways.

The problem with that is how is the player supposed to tell what is "this Snake seems different" and "Man, Keifer's Snake is different". What you're saying would make more sense if David Hayter voiced the real Snake and was as chatty as usual. The real Big Boss is as emotionless for the little we see and hear from him on tapes. And even then, I think the revelation is done very poorly. The game just goes "Hey, want me to tell you the twist? Play this mission called The Truth."
I haven't heard all the tapes but I thought Ishmael was really good and talkative like Big Boss use to be, but you're right in that the flaw with Venom is that Keifer also voiced the real Big Boss
 
As far as cheesy lines go, I thought Skullface was fantastic, I honestly think he was a great character with a disappointing end, he was ridiculous in all the right Metal Gear ways.


I haven't heard all the tapes but I thought Ishmael was really good and talkative like Big Boss use to be.
Eh, he's basically tutorializing you. Like I said, Keifer's is a big change and his change is going to make it hard to tell if Snake has changed or if it's just Keifer. And on top of that, Snake being different after a coma and what took place is plausible. Miller changed a lot, for example.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom