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[Noisepurge]

So is Pequod the progenitor for the Les Enfants Terrible project?

Spoiler

Considering there apparantly are infinite clones. In fact, he gets killed in mission 29 and nobody bats an eye when he reappears at the end of the mission.

i think Pequod is Huey actually, same voice actor atleast! He never left Mother Base!

 

[Xiraiya]

Honestly, I have to give Miller major respect. He was missing an arm and leg, possibly blind, yet still managed to train and mentor Solid Snake into becoming a legendary soldier rivaling Big Boss. That's impressive stuff.

Miller was the one who started David's combat training, Big Boss was the one who really trained Snake I thought, they were at Foxhound together after all, he was Snake's commanding Officer.

i think Pequod is Huey actually, same voice actor atleast! He never left Mother Base!

I'm pretty goddamn sure neither Pequod or Morpho (who sound the same) are Christopher Randolph.

 

[Resilient]

MGS2 was such a messy story as canon that it required nearly all of mgs4 to explain it. the meta narrative was the most important aspect of it. same thing here. kojima has already blatantly stated that he shoehorns his ideas into metal gear games because konami wouldn't pay for a new IP. making a game about empowering the player and convincing him that he's a legendary war hero took precedence over the overall canon. eitherway, as i said early, the canon was a mess anyway. getting all those characters into the state they were in during MG1 and all of it making sense was essentially impossible

WhaT? No. Why do people keep saying this in this thread. How do people still not understand MGS2 15 years later. We have Wiki now, go read them if you still don't get it but pls don't say "messy story as canon" without explaining why. I will defend this game and explain why it isn't but not if you don't go to the effort of expanding.

Miller was the one who started David's combat training, Big Boss was the one who really trained Snake I thought, they were at Foxhound together after all, he was Snake's commanding Officer.

Miller refines and trains him after the events of MG1. Solid Snake retires after MG1 and is brought back for MG2 to take out the real Big Boss as we know him. This is when Miller gets on board the BB kill train.

 

[Skyward Sheep]

For S ranking missions D-horse cannot be beat, the time he saves just gives you so many points.

For anytime speed is not an issue, D-horse is pretty useless imo.

Even then I think D-Walker is faster than D-Horse. But I barely used D-Walker either. I think the only missions where I used him were when I went to extract the legendary bear and when I was replaying Mission 30 for the S Rank. If you have a shield on your back you can literally just drive straight through the middle of the compound to the end of the level.

 

[Alucrid]

So I assume that volgin realized that venom snake wasn't big boss and that's why he didn't kill you when you recovered his body?

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

So I assume that volgin realized that venom snake wasn't big boss and that's why he didn't kill you when you recovered his body?

Yup. Just stopped dead in his tracks.

 

[Stevey]

Is there no way to get Quiet back after mission 45?

 

[Xiraiya]

Is there no way to get Quiet back after mission 45?

Apparently not at this stage, you can use the butterfly emblem to keep her with you though.

 

[Skyward Sheep]

Miller refines and trains him after the events of MG1. Solid Snake retires after MG1 and is brought back for MG2 to take out the real Big Boss as we know him. This is when Miller gets on board the BB kill train.

Ah, that makes sense. My knowledge on MG1 and 2 is pretty hazy, been a while since I played them via Snake Eater.

 

[TheSeks]

This isn't a chapter, you want a MG1 remake in Fox Engine.

Who doesn't, though?

(That thread title. WHOOOO.)

 

[GreyOcelot]

WhaT? No. Why do people keep saying this in this thread. How do people still not understand MGS2 15 years later. We have Wiki now, go read them if you still don't get it but pls don't say "messy story as canon" without explaining why. I will defend this game and explain why it isn't but not if you don't go to the effort of expanding.

when did i say i didn't understand it? i'm of the idea that the game is not meant to be taken literally. that kojima never meant for all of those events to be part of the canon metal gear lore. the design decisions and events are there to serve the meta-narrative moreso than the actual canon narrative

 

[Stevey]

Apparently not at this stage, you can use the butterfly emblem to keep her with you though.

Well that sucks, she's already gone, dont really want to do the remaining side ops without her.

 

[Alienous]

MGS2 was such a messy story as canon that it required nearly all of mgs4 to explain it. the meta narrative was the most important aspect of it. same thing here. kojima has already blatantly stated that he shoehorns his ideas into metal gear games because konami wouldn't pay for a new IP. making a game about empowering the player and convincing him that he's a legendary war hero took precedence over the overall canon. eitherway, as i said early, the canon was a mess anyway. getting all those characters into the state they were in during MG1 and all of it making sense was essentially impossible

But MGS2, at the time, was the end of the timeline.

Injecting a messy story for the sake of a meta narrative in the middle of the timeline of existing games is a bad idea.

And the bolded is simply untrue, and that doesn't mean a creator is validated in not trying. The canon no longer holds any weight; the core (MG1) needs heavy retconning, so now the series exists in a temporal loop of shitty canon.

And it doesn't empower the player to think anything. I'm not Big Boss, the Medic, a character existing in that universe, was. He has his own personality, makes his own decisions, is definitely male and most certainly isn't me. Raiden isn't me either but he was a better conduit into the Metal Gear Solid universe than Medic Boss.

 

[Neoweee]

I was on the Wiki because I was looking at stuff to make sense out of it .


That's the list of everything that made zero sense in the game, that ended up retconning virtually every plot point from MGS 3 and 4.




Welp. At least nobody's gonna top the awful writing of the guy.

They can't possibly fuck up a sequel without him.

Does any of this surprise you? MG2 retconned MG1, MGS1 retconned the first two games, MGS2 retconned everything previously, etc. There's never been a reason to take series continuity seriously as nobody at KojiPro has ever seemed to care much about it.

 

[Skyward Sheep]

Well that sucks, she's already gone, dont really want to do the remaining side ops without her.

Eh, once you have some decent equipment you don't really need her. I find that she makes the game trivially easy. Just bring a silenced tranq sniper with you and you're golden.

 

[UrbanRats]

For S ranking missions D-horse cannot be beat, the time he saves just gives you so many points.

For anytime speed is not an issue, D-horse is pretty useless imo.

D Walker is faster, isn't it?

 

[Marty-esque]

Well his spotting is useful, but then again marking isn't something I've ever had an issue with, with D-Horse though, he can distract guards just as DD can, you can even hold up vehicles in mid transit by galloping up to the driver and pointing your gun at them.
With stuff like Tanks, you can slip down one side of D-Horse as you ride up next to one, roll off and then Fulton the tank before it can even respond to your presence.

By being very minimal in functionality and very quick in movement, he becomes an incredibly valuable ally who won't get in your way, but I guess it just depends on how you play.

I've just found that he seems very underrated and my Missions have had the most efficiency and success when just having D-Horse.

If you want to find targets quickly to complete side ops, that's what DD is for. Since the side ops are the same objectives over and over again, it makes sense to use him.

 

[UrbanRats]

If you always played MGS for the gameplay you'd be a Splinter Cell fan first-and-foremost.

Well, both Splinter Cell Black list and MGSV were the most fun games to play to come out in their respective years for me, by a long shot, too.

 

[Alienous]

Well, both Splinter Cell Black list and MGSV were the most fun games to play to come out in their respective years for me, by a long shot, too.

Mostly because MGSV owes a lot to Splinter Cell for its stealth, especially the emphasis on light/dark and hiding in the shadows. I think it was a concious thing, because based on Kojima's commentary the opening of Ground Zeroes with Big Boss pulling up his goggles is there to make you think "Splinter Cell?".

 

[Shin-Ra]

So I assume that volgin realized that venom snake wasn't big boss and that's why he didn't kill you when you recovered his body?

Yeah.

Who the fuck is this?

Fooled ya!

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

MGS2 was such a messy story as canon that it required nearly all of mgs4 to explain it. the meta narrative was the most important aspect of it. same thing here. kojima has already blatantly stated that he shoehorns his ideas into metal gear games because konami wouldn't pay for a new IP. making a game about empowering the player and convincing him that he's a legendary war hero took precedence over the overall canon. eitherway, as i said early, the canon was a mess anyway. getting all those characters into the state they were in during MG1 and all of it making sense was essentially impossible

The whole point of MGS2 was that it shouldn't be taken literally, that there is a very real possibility that the game itself is not even part of the series overall cannon.

That was till MGS4 came and retconned the entirety of MGS2, but that doesn't negate or diminish it's original intentions.

 

[GreyOcelot]

And the bolded is simply untrue, and that doesn't mean a creator is validated in not trying. The canon no longer holds any weight; the core (MG1) needs heavy retconning, so now the series exists in a temporal loop of shitty canon..

it did already anyway. the moment kojima decided to make prequels. getting big boss from peace walker to foxhound AND outer heaven both at the same time is a daunting proposition to begin with. kojima used this meta-narrative idea of his to do that. good or not, i think it does connect a few more dots that we didn't have before.

Injecting a messy story for the sake of a meta narrative in the middle of the timeline of existing games is a bad idea.

i don't necessarily agree, but as i said, kojima has already blatantly admitted that he shoehorns his ideas into metal gear games.

The whole point of MGS2 was that it shouldn't be taken literally, that there is a very real possibility that the game itself is not even part of the series overall cannon.

That was till MGS4 came and retconned the entirety of MGS2, but that doesn't negate or diminish it's original intentions.

i agree. but it serves my point that kojima has a history of letting the canon story of the series take a back seat to his creative mind. he didn't want to make another mgs game and he made 5 more. he probably thinks it's hilarious how the diehard mgs story fans go nuts over the canon and how everything connects. kojima doesn't care about that shit. he just wants a conduit upon which to create wild and crazy games with colorful characters that offer insight into various things about the world

 

[SuperAngelo64]

Something interesting I noticed.

It started when I came across this tape called 'How bout them zombies 'ey?'
It's clearly a reference to the Skulls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7bMtfm66SQ

At 2:40 it plays what seems to be an excerpt from the beginning of the musical 'Phantom of the Opera'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5z_l6NE3qs

Now normally I'd shrug this off as a coincidence.

But the theme of this game seems to have to do with 'phantoms'.

Also in the Phantom of the Opera the 'Phantom' is a misunderstood genius with a broken childhood who is obsessed with the concept of 'voice' to the point of violence and murder. He's a burn victim that wears a brimmed hat and a masquerade-style mask to hide his disfigured identity. Seems like Skullface.

The musical version of this story was also created in the mid 1980s.

 

[GeekMarty]

Yeah.

OMG, that is actually really clever!

 

[Shin-Ra]

Kojima played us like a damn fiddle!

GDC 2013

SEP 2015

We are not your kind of people.
You seem kind of phoney.
Everything's a lie.
We are not your kind of people.
Something in your makeup.
Don't see eye to eye.

https://youtu.be/zbNzX5eqWvQ

 

[Resilient]

when did i say i didn't understand it? i'm of the idea that the game is not meant to be taken literally. that kojima never meant for all of those events to be part of the canon metal gear lore. the design decisions and events are there to serve the meta-narrative moreso than the actual canon narrative

posts like that that just come in and call the story a mess but don't say why reek of failure to understand that game. happened a few pages back as well. it's one thing to not like it. it's another to call it "messy" and not explain why. if you tried to pay attention to the game, how can you call it messy?

 

[Kama_1082]

Since I already beat CH 45, does this mean I can't use quiet anymore for side ops and mission replays?

 

[Skyward Sheep]

Since I already beat CH 45, does this mean I can't use quiet anymore for side ops and mission replays?

Yup. Unless you have the PC version and mod it.

 

[Molemitts]

How old would Solidus be at this point in time? Same age as Solid/Liquid? With his more advanced aging he could reasonably be fully grown. I had an expectation that there would be some kind of reveal that we were playing as him all along, but I don't know much about the lore so if that makes any sense or not I'm uncertain.

I'm kinda disappointed in the ending, not because of the reveal, I don't have a big problem with it, but more because of all the plot threads completely abandoned and how detached the ending feels from the rest of the progress of the game. It felt like it was going to connect MGS1, but just ended before it could do that.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

How old would Solidus be at this point in time? Same age as Solid/Liquid? With his more advanced aging he could reasonably be fully grown. I had an expectation that there would be some kind of reveal that we were playing as him all along, but I don't know much about the lore so if that makes any sense or not I'm uncertain.

I'm kinda disappointed in the ending, not because of the reveal, I don't have a big problem with it, but more because of all the plot threads completely abandoned and how detached the ending feels from the rest of the progress of the game. It felt like it was going to connect MGS1, but just ended before it could do that.

Solidus is actually younger than Solid/Liquid. I forget exactly how much younger, but he was created after Eli and David.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.

Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.

Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"

Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

 

[NyMartin90]

For some reason I never got any of the gunsmith missions. How can I do this? I'm currently in chapter 2

 

[Alucrid]

How old would Solidus be at this point in time? Same age as Solid/Liquid? With his more advanced aging he could reasonably be fully grown. I had an expectation that there would be some kind of reveal that we were playing as him all along, but I don't know much about the lore so if that makes any sense or not I'm uncertain.

I'm kinda disappointed in the ending, not because of the reveal, I don't have a big problem with it, but more because of all the plot threads completely abandoned and how detached the ending feels from the rest of the progress of the game. It felt like it was going to connect MGS1, but just ended before it could do that.

Well there's the metal gear games which need to be included in the time line so I have no idea how it would go right to metal gear solid

 

[Resilient]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.

Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.

Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"

Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

mmm glad I went dark after the e3 2014 trailer. Barely popped into major threads and stopped watching impressions and trailers.

 

[Stallion Dan]

D Walker is faster, isn't it?

D-horse is better for stealth, when going for S ranks will regularly run/walk right by enemies with D-horse, just hanging to the side. Plus can jump off and not need worry about DH.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.

Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.

Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"

Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

I remember seeing the original post and just moved on thinking it was because Kojima got a different military adviser.

 

[Xiraiya]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.
Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.
Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"
Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

The fact you weren't playing as Big Boss wasn't much of a secret if you watched any trailer.
This song made it pretty goddamn obvious from the start

Yeah.

How the hell are you playing with that head? I want to play as non-ponytail snake, I wish I could get that hair on the eyepatch version of Venom but I'll settle for that.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Kojima played us like a damn fiddle!

We are not your kind of people.
You seem kind of phoney.
Everything's a lie.
We are not your kind of people.
Something in your makeup.
Don't see eye to eye.

https://youtu.be/zbNzX5eqWvQ

--- You seem kind of phoney.
Everything's a lie.

 

[Molemitts]

Well there's the metal gear games which need to be included in the time line so I have no idea how it would go right to metal gear solid

I was mainly thinking it would show how Liquid came to appreciate Big Boss and what would lead to Ocelot joining Liquid in MGS1. So it would connect to MGS1 in those regards.

 

[SJRB]

Just watched the Episode 51 cutscene.

That was freaking crazy, wow.

 

[Misterinenja]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.

Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.

Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"

Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

OT was full of that shit.

Also "oh just waiting until you get to the ending it sucks so much". How about you fuck off?

The fact you weren't playing as Big Boss wasn't much of a secret if you watched any trailer.
This song made it pretty goddamn obvious from the start

Yeah so obvious. Nothing to get spoiled about. /s

 

[Xiraiya]

If you're remotely familiar with Kojima, that song should have immediately made you think "None of this is real, you're probably not even Big Boss"

 

[zdenko1]

Is there no way to get Quiet back after mission 45?

Actually, there is a way with some editing of game files. I haven't tried it and I have no idea if it won't break something but nobody has problems with it so far. Remember to backup everything before you begin. Here's a guide from reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgears...spoiler_about_quiet_mgsv_mod_tools_dont_read/

 

[thabtoUK]

I know a lot people have only joined this thread since completing the game, but a lot of us have known about The Medic being Venom Snake since 25th August:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176512519#post176512519

Not saying that makes us anymore knowledgeable or cooler, it's just that many of us played through the game knowing we weren't Big Boss and have had a little more time for this twist to sink in ;-)

 

[Jintor]

should've been tipped when he started off the game with a COVER of a song about meeting yourself

 

[UrbanRats]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.

Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.

Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"

Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

It could've been that BB sat on a knife and had a big trauma about knives.

 

[Roufianos]

I just remembered how some guy in the OT confirmed that it was not Big Boss. This is how it went.

Some guy asked why he doesn't use his knife anymore like he used to in 3 and PW or even Snake in MG4.

Then a guy responded. "I would tell you, but that would be a pretty major spoiler"

Do some people think we are morons and don't understand what he means by that ? I am kinda pissed afterwards. Oh well.

Some people just love the power of being in the know and can't help but try to remind everyone.

I was pretty pissed off with the official "The Codec" Twitter. Daley from the show expressed his "disappointment" at the ending and claimed he would only play as DD staff in the post game.

I took that as a pretty major hint that V was an imposter and it turned out to be true.

 

[SJRB]

Is there even any point in doing Mission 45 other than narrative closure? I don't see any benefits in ever doing that mission.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I know a lot people have only joined this thread since completing the game, but a lot of us have known about The Medic being Venom Snake since 25th August:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176512519#post176512519

Not saying that makes us anymore knowledgeable or cooler, it's just that many of us played through the game knowing we weren't Big Boss and have had a little more time for this twist to sink in ;-)

Sorry but assuming most of Gaf knew is just ridiculous.

Edit: When I looked on who posted in the Spoiler Thread it was mostly the same people posting a lot.

 

[Kama_1082]

Yup. Unless you have the PC version and mod it.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU