Jimquisition (September 14th, 2015) - A Quiet Conversation
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
The really funny thing is how you have to pay up to get her into decent clothes.
Audioboxer
Member
Gotta agree considering the two costumes you can unlock later on...
It doesn't bother me, in terms of embarrassment or awkwardness, but the argument can be made given those two costumes and The End unravel the reasoning Kojima went with. Jim said it right in that if you're deliberately making a character with sex appeal, just be honest about it. A lot of mediums do it (appeal to a humans sexual desires), and it doesn't always give automatic rights to feminist attacks or "women/men being treated unfairly remarks", but to be able to do it and not look shady honesty is key.
Quiet goes right to the tip of the scale as well with the amount of skin on show. It could have been an outfit like Paz's for example which shows a lot of skin but is dialed back a little. She is sex appeal, no doubt about it, especially given some of the scenes, and idle animations. As Jim said Kojima should just have been honest and say she was created as a sexy character.
It doesn't bother me, in terms of embarrassment or awkwardness, but the argument can be made given those two costumes and The End unravel the reasoning Kojima went with. Jim said it right in that if you're deliberately making a character with sex appeal, just be honest about it. A lot of mediums do it (appeal to a humans sexual desires), and it doesn't always give automatic rights to feminist attacks or "women/men being treated unfairly remarks", but to be able to do it and not look shady honesty is key.
Quiet goes right to the tip of the scale as well with the amount of skin on show. It could have been an outfit like Paz's for example which shows a lot of skin but is dialed back a little. She is sex appeal, no doubt about it, especially given some of the scenes, and idle animations. As Jim said Kojima should just have been honest and say she was created as a sexy character.
It's not JUST about this one game having this one female character that acts like a stripper, but there's a huge problem with media of all kind focusing too much on the objectification & sexualization of women and MGSV is one part of that problematic puzzle that SHOULD be criticized. If you don't think there's a problem with her character, you truly are ignorant.
That's like Spielberg directing another war movie and then the only important female character in it only wore a bra and panties while the camera constantly focuses on her ass & breasts and she does all these *sexy poses* that give us a better look at those breasts & ass, but all the men are actually dressed like & act like soldiers and the camera doesn't always go for the bulge in their pants or something. You really don't see the problem in that?
And no one is "getting angry", but most of us think that this kind of a character with "depth" in her nudeness is just embarrassing & pathetic.
I did this in fact. I mean, everybody knows his tweet about shame and deeds. I got the impression that he's at least trying to do something. Like, i expected nothing game changing from him, but i thought he would be trying. One should've given him the benefit of the doubt i thought. How wrong i was, lol. Playing the game i was like "Really? Thats the explanation? It surely cant be everything, there got to be more later on" and then the reality started sinking in. I kind of feel bad for that in retroperspective.
If you "dont give a fuck" what this "SO RARE SO EDGY" "Youtube blowhard" has to say, why are you even posting here?
Public post historys are fun, right?
Vlaphor
Member
I agree with this. I love that quiet is how she is in this game, but don't try to disguise it under some greater goal.
I haven't played the game, but I've seen some videos.
She was stretching in the helicopter. The view was extremely nice from the point of view of a boy at late puberty. But it still felt very unnecessary, and somehow I felt very much uneasy watching that scene, like I would if something like that actually happened in real life.
She was stretching in the helicopter. The view was extremely nice from the point of view of a boy at late puberty. But it still felt very unnecessary, and somehow I felt very much uneasy watching that scene, like I would if something like that actually happened in real life.
Also she isn't the only female character in this. At some point there is a team of female snipers that show up and oppose you. How are they introduced? The camera pans across all their tits and then ends up on the ass of the last one. After that we are allowed to see a face.
I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's saying that it's objectification is messed up, but it's slightly worse when you add a layer of dishonesty and pretension on top of it. He wasn't bringing up Onechanbara and Senran Kagura to say they're awesome. He was doing it to say that they're trashy, but at least they know they're trashy and don't pretend that their objectification is for some higher purpose.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Didn't Kojima say originally that Quiet's design was to have cosplayers dress as her?
Tizoc
Member
He must really like fiddles.
Jim Sterling
Member
Never said it was "ok" so much as I said I respect it more than the pretense.
The game literally trivialises the one notable female charcter, where she is nothing more than a sexualised object to be leared at thanks to Kojima's pathetic direction. Meanwhile, every single male notable character does not have this issue of being a purely two dimensional character. This is consistent throughout Kojima games.
Aside from noticing it in the first few scenes now I don't even care. She's one of the best buddies to take on missions and her character and arc is proababyl the best in the game.
I do find it quite funny people are jumping on this now when Kojima has literally done this with all his games with both male and female characters. Vamp immediately comes to mind.
Hell in Peace Walker you can go on a gay date with Kaz in nothing but underwear and beat each other up to both of them saying sexual innuendos.
I do find it quite funny people are jumping on this now when Kojima has literally done this with all his games with both male and female characters. Vamp immediately comes to mind.
Hell in Peace Walker you can go on a gay date with Kaz in nothing but underwear and beat each other up to both of them saying sexual innuendos.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
That's why I want people to Swap the Kojima Model with Quiets Model ingame and send him that on twitter.
Audioboxer
Member
He did say that, which is part way to admitting it's a character made sexy for cosplayers to mimic if they wish (and feel empowered, or, naturally, just feel sexy wearing little in public - which there isn't anything wrong, it's not public nudity if the naughty parts are covered). However the statement made about shame and there being "a big reason" she is the way she is overshadowed the cosplay comment and led Kojima to being scrutinized via the points Jim has made.
If he hadn't said those comments and just went with the cosplay remarks/sexy character, it would still draw negative attention but at least honesty would have been at the forefront.
Actually not a bad idea if people could also alter the models so the clothing could also be the opposite.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Any spoilers in this?
There are big differences though. All these male characters are more than their sexualization? What is Quiets character? She doesn't speak, she is naked, she is good at sniping and in love with Boss for reasons? That's barely a character.
MMaRsu
Member
Nothing more? Id disagree with that. I also dont take offense to this subject at all. You lost me there Jim.
And spoilers but Quiet does
speak in the game
I am not a huge fan of the MGS series (despite owning a lot of the series games) but I have been keeping up with the media regarding MGS V and man.....why did they make Quiet's design the way it was :l?
Like Jim said, the plot-related reason isn't enough to justify the overtly exaggerated design, leading to whatever character and backstory she has in MGS V to be completely masked and not taken seriously due to her design.
I honestly don't know where the design came from (Konami getting involved somehow, Kojima wanting to do something crazy with her appearance, ect) but its a shame the last true MGS game has this in it.
Maybe they could fix this by making a upcoming patch include her solider costume without any unlocks, so people can make her look decent if they are overtly offended (and I think the cut-scenes keep the characters costumes too?).
Its nice that Jim discussed this, as it is a important topic that I see popping up again in the future.
Like Jim said, the plot-related reason isn't enough to justify the overtly exaggerated design, leading to whatever character and backstory she has in MGS V to be completely masked and not taken seriously due to her design.
I honestly don't know where the design came from (Konami getting involved somehow, Kojima wanting to do something crazy with her appearance, ect) but its a shame the last true MGS game has this in it.
Maybe they could fix this by making a upcoming patch include her solider costume without any unlocks, so people can make her look decent if they are overtly offended (and I think the cut-scenes keep the characters costumes too?).
Its nice that Jim discussed this, as it is a important topic that I see popping up again in the future.
I was thinking the same thing. Basically reads like a video version of a lot of the points/discussion in the spoiler thread. That said getting the message to a wide audience is fine by me and he is absolutely right in what he is saying also he breathes through his skin so that's okay.
He didn't touch upon the real questionable shit later on in her arc but the points he was making was fine.
Her XOF outfit was perfect though. It would have made the character so much more tolerable from a visual stand point. And hell, I actually really like her character and arc but her shitty design just undermines it all so much. And the sneaking suit variant of the generic female soldier characters were great as well.So there are actually well handled female soldiers in the very same game as the trash.
Fair enough, it's a bit of a tricky comparison to make, I don't think the video needed to bring overt objectification into it at all to make the point you were making, it just (for me) muddies the waters, and makes a whole other issue apparent.
This absolutely needs to happen.
Eh Vamp is really nothing more than a sexualised freak
Thanks for the non tagged spoiler originally - not that that wasn't going to be beyond obvious
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah the XOF costume, or at least a costume like I said above along the line of what Paz is wearing should be available from the get go. As things stand both clothing based options are unlocked end-game. That only further antagonizes the situation given that as Jim said it unravels Kojima's reasoning, and IMO therefore shouldn't be tied to end game unlocks if Konami/Kojima are happy to cover her up at some point.
SubiyaCryolite
Banned
Im usually all for the "creators vision" and all that but I really do think Quiets design is a bit silly. It just doesn't fit in with the general theme and "seriousness" of the game imo. Soldier Pants and a sports bra/shirt would have been a much better choice imo.
Sadly the terrible cutscenes with her showering or dancing around in the rain would still exist. Also her posing in the chopper.
Audioboxer
Member
On the PC Ocelot is an option
Surprised Jim didn't chuck in a clip of that cutscene just for laughs.Sadly her awful design and depiction is a nasty boil on an otherwise cracking game. I'd literally have to switch off TV if people came in when she's "doing her moves".
Pity though 'cause she's great as a partner in missions. Just another stupid gaming design decision although clearly a deliberate one on Kojima's part.
One he's free to make and the market is free to criticize.
Pity though 'cause she's great as a partner in missions. Just another stupid gaming design decision although clearly a deliberate one on Kojima's part.
One he's free to make and the market is free to criticize.
Kojima has done good female characters before. Please give me an explanation of how the Boss was nothing more then a sexualized object to be leared at if you're going to claim this is consistent throughout his games.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
"stretching"
On the PC Ocelot is an option
He's better as the dog. Kojima should be quiet if you could also use the opposite clothes
WrenchNinja
Member
This is funny coming from someone going on a recent "movie game" meltdown
The fuck did i just read.
Do you really think vamp was designed to be erotic, like quiet?
Because eroge sells.
matrix-cat
Member
There's also the fact that her two big badass action scenes in the game are brought about as a result of people trying to rape her. The part where she jams her knife down the Mother Base soldier's throat (obviously because he tried to ram something down hers), and the later scene with the Russian soldiers are both such cliche, woman-scorned, I-Spit-On-Your-Grave rapesploitation movie things, or whatever you'd call them.
Just, fucking, let her be a person, y'know? The game constantly undermines the actually interesting story of her character by never letting you forget that she dresses like a stripper with great big jiggly tits who drives all the boys wild.
Just, fucking, let her be a person, y'know? The game constantly undermines the actually interesting story of her character by never letting you forget that she dresses like a stripper with great big jiggly tits who drives all the boys wild.
I just about let Eva pass as a character because you could look at it as shes trying to seduce Big Boss in order to manipulate him and she does get one over him in the end. Though you would hope a super soldier like him wouldn't fall for such a simple ploy.
In either games case it does make me not want to play them in front of certain company when those characters are involved as it looks dumb and porny and I don't feel like having to explain why I'm playing this.
MMaRsu
Member
Sorry im on mobile and messed up
My second comment I this thread already agreed with this - but that didn't stop him doing it for at least one character.
It's all good man
captainpat
Member
2 years ago
Kojima is a perv and has put pervy things throughout the entire MGS series. He even stated Quiets design was for cosplayers before he threw out that "serious" reason. And you know what? The reason perfectly fits within all of the other weird ass shit in the MG series.
The real problem here is that fans put Kojima in a pedestal. For years he has done this and no one gave a shit. Now we are supposed to? Nothing has changed. He trolls fans, he trolls and media and did what he wanted to do for his entire career and now people are mad about it? Nah.
A series full of techno babble, skimpy outfits, innuendos, giant robots, ninjas, porn mags, dates, using a cardboard box for cover and more weird shit. Shit we loved about the series. People just took Kojima too damned seriously.
Get upset if you want but its years too late to do so. You just got trolled again by Kojima.
The real problem here is that fans put Kojima in a pedestal. For years he has done this and no one gave a shit. Now we are supposed to? Nothing has changed. He trolls fans, he trolls and media and did what he wanted to do for his entire career and now people are mad about it? Nah.
A series full of techno babble, skimpy outfits, innuendos, giant robots, ninjas, porn mags, dates, using a cardboard box for cover and more weird shit. Shit we loved about the series. People just took Kojima too damned seriously.
Get upset if you want but its years too late to do so. You just got trolled again by Kojima.
Tell me Vamps motive in the overall plot. And look at MGS4 at his constant sexual movements and innuendos. And I absolutely love his character
Yes, you're funny trying to gauge an emotional response over the internet. Do try harder, troll.
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