MAX PAYMENT
Member
Lol forgot he even existed. How do you unlock faster sprinting?
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Lol forgot he even existed. How do you unlock faster sprinting?
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Mobility+ for your Bionic Arm.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Miller is such a racist. Fultoning black person "Him too ?"
Only great use for D Horse is the hilarity of doing this right in front of enemies, yes.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
The Patriots must have been laughing their ass off when they built Big Shell and stole the idea from Big Boss
I drove up until that little outpost before the wooden bridge that leads to the mansion by hugging the left side.
GodzillaDB
Member
Finally finished Phantom Pain last night and I must align myself with those that felt it was an anti-climatic bookend to Kojima's stealth saga. Open-world design does present what could possibly be the pinnacle of the franchise with the freedom to tackle espionage however the player desires, but it stumbles continuously as a result of their first forte into the free-roaming world. I'll probably savor my complete impressions for the "Game of the Year 2015" thread and I must concede that MGSV won't fulfill the top spot on my list in recognition to faulty, neutered nature of Hideo Kojima's final hurrah. Initially, storytelling was one of the strongest suits to the Metal Gear brand. Departure of co-writer Tomokazu Fukushima truly signifies a descent in the quality of narration in subsequent, post-MGS3 releases. Although he's still one of my favorite game designers and an indisputable influence on my taste, I might consider placing Kojima within the same realm of fallen auteurs known for their unfulfilling continuations of their master works, like George Lucas (Star Wars prequel trilogy) and Hideaki Anno (Rebuild of Evangelion), based on the dispiriting tales of Guns of the Patriots, Peace Walker and, finally, Ground Zeroes/The Phantom Pain. I look forward to witnessing what becomes of the franchise which undoubtedly deserves a new set of artistic eyes to push it forward whether it's a re-imagining of Metal Gear (1987), MG2: Solid Snake, or an all-new adventure under the FOX engine.
If it's okay, I did want to ask a couple of smaller questions for those out there with an answer.
01) Are you able to unlock Hospital Boss as a head option and/or attire?
02) How do you obtain the finalized Outer Heaven emblem? I just obtained an older variant for Mission 45 on B-rank.
03) Am I correct in assuming all supernatural elements pre-MGS2 are the work of parasites, particularly Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven?
04) Did Big Boss officially go into a comatose state twice within the canon based on the Medic/Venom Snake witnessing the aftermath of Ground Zeroes and his defeat at the hands of Solid Snake in Zanzibar Land?
05) Were there any special circumstances to Major Zero and Cipher obtaining the DNA of Big Boss for the cloning project or was it just a random incident?
06) Is there an inconsistency in the story arc with no one recognizing the real Big Boss operating Foxhound and Venom Snake manning Outer Heaven simultaneously?
07) I know that Kojima primarily considers his directorial works canon, but wasn't there an interview where he stated the events of Portable Ops and Revengeance could exist just as long as they didn't conflict?
08) How exactly does the Venom Snake ruse fit into the actions of the Enfants Project and the S3 Plan? Surely the Patriots were eventually aware that Big Boss had a doppelganger after the original Metal Gear so wouldn't that make the Solid Snake Simulation bit redundant after the events of Phantom Pain? I'm guessing the cloning process was a hasty attempt at creating the "perfect soldier" on a genetic level prior to those events. I admittedly haven't heard the Zero cassettes just yet.
If it's okay, I did want to ask a couple of smaller questions for those out there with an answer.
01) Are you able to unlock Hospital Boss as a head option and/or attire?
02) How do you obtain the finalized Outer Heaven emblem? I just obtained an older variant for Mission 45 on B-rank.
03) Am I correct in assuming all supernatural elements pre-MGS2 are the work of parasites, particularly Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven?
04) Did Big Boss officially go into a comatose state twice within the canon based on the Medic/Venom Snake witnessing the aftermath of Ground Zeroes and his defeat at the hands of Solid Snake in Zanzibar Land?
05) Were there any special circumstances to Major Zero and Cipher obtaining the DNA of Big Boss for the cloning project or was it just a random incident?
06) Is there an inconsistency in the story arc with no one recognizing the real Big Boss operating Foxhound and Venom Snake manning Outer Heaven simultaneously?
07) I know that Kojima primarily considers his directorial works canon, but wasn't there an interview where he stated the events of Portable Ops and Revengeance could exist just as long as they didn't conflict?
08) How exactly does the Venom Snake ruse fit into the actions of the Enfants Project and the S3 Plan? Surely the Patriots were eventually aware that Big Boss had a doppelganger after the original Metal Gear so wouldn't that make the Solid Snake Simulation bit redundant after the events of Phantom Pain? I'm guessing the cloning process was a hasty attempt at creating the "perfect soldier" on a genetic level prior to those events. I admittedly haven't heard the Zero cassettes just yet.
crazyrabbits said:
Just wanted to give a shout-out to both of you in the previous thread as I greatly appreciate your responses to my inquires. In regard to crazyrabbits, you might wanna note the seemingly dynamic nature of Quiet boarding the helicopter in the TGS 2014 gameplay demonstration, NPC activity on Mother Base (E3 2014 gameplay presentation), and the datamined scar of The Boss among Paz's assets. Also, wasn't the unused dialogue from Mission 46 just discovered in a cinematic for FOB/MGO once everyone becomes nuke free? It'd never take place so it might as well be a deleted scene. It's additionally strange that the P.T./Silent Hills radio easter egg was maintained while the Lisa decoy was trimmed and Venom Snake kneeling in the lost African village cut-scene appears "recycled" in the quarantine finale albeit from a different angle.BadRNG said:
https://youtu.be/QoFU5dU0PGQ?t=39s
How do you launch out of the box like that?
Edit: Also, wtf about that PS4 box at the end?
Cheers!
How do you launch out of the box like that?
Edit: Also, wtf about that PS4 box at the end?
Cheers!
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
When in the box, do a dive
LaserBuddha
Member
I couldnt finish Code Talker's research tapes. I just cant stand to hear him say "wolbachia" or "vocal chord parasite" again.
Male to female, mate
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
B-but the Diné...
Just talking to a friend. Discussing some elements that i think would make the game a lot richer.
1) Don't leave the deployment to be a game you don't play.
The whole idea of sending your troops to do things that affect the game is kinda lame. The RPS article mentions this, and its true. I wish we would do this kind of thing within the game. Actually. i wish outposts and bases or fortress had this included. For example. The comms array and comms links and communication control is a good indication that you can do something to make your life easier, its not an objective, but if you tackle these, then you have more freedom. You not only do it yourself, but you see the ramification of your actions within the game in real time. This is awesome!!! The game needs more of this.
What if there is a base that supplies all of the helmets and upgrades to other outposts? then you can take these out to disable them. Not permanently, but at least until they rebuild it. Its a handicap, and every time you go back to it, they try to adapt to your last gameplay to change things up. Barricades, air support. things of the sort.
BUt lets take this even further. This place sends regular shipments by truck to supply. What if each outpost and base had a space reserved to receive this... you have options now. You can track these trucks, sneak into them, and travel into the place to infiltrate its core. Things branch from here. You can disrupt the truck and cut off the supply. you can steal the truck and reinforce your army. or you can get to the objective, disable the space in the fortress and see things happen.
Lets go even deeper tho!! If you keep disrupting the trucks... they start to supply by air.. using helicopters. you take them down, they send a detail to protect them. you keep going... they send a detail and decoys... to keep you on your toes.
The whole idea is that you are the one that is making the choice to make the game adapt to you. Not the other way around. This makes the gameplay more dynamic, and you feel like the outcome of a scenario is totally based on you, and not of something that is happening off screen.
This post sent me to hell, but we are going even deeper still. ALL FOR THE LUST OF A BETTER GAME!! so... you have all this branching. What if you left them alone... places would get reinforced, what if your actions made the world build things to respond to you. If you keep attacking a place with force they build barricades and trenches. If you tend to hit and run, they build pursue vehicles that chase you until you either engage them or you loose them and be sneaky. Even more fun, a team that is dedicated to hunting you down and ambushing you at times, this could be avoided by collecting intel and going back to some of the places to get data or disrupt or destroy certain outposts. This kind of choices really make the game react to the things you do. Having soldiers just wear a gas mask, or helmets is a great idea, but it doesn't happen as often as it should.
What else... i guess i can keep adding layers of this kind of gameplay. But the truth is... the game needs more things happening around you and affecting you, instead of waiting for you to interact with them. More wild life... like riding your jeep and you see a pack of animals just living their life. Or maybe some hienas taking on a pack of AI. I dunno... keep it fresh. there is plenty of space to make things fun.
Anyways... that is some of the ideas i was discussing and wanted to share. I am prbly full of it. what do you guys think?
TL;DR i just want things to happen.
EDIT: i just figured that the game would be a whole lot more unpredictable and fun. Think about you see these two guys at an outpost... they are talking about you infiltrating the suppliers... they said that people are upset and they are putting a group together to hunt you down... bleep.. you get a codec call from Kaz saying "Boss... this new intel, we might want to look into it" a new marker has been added to your map.
Then you can go look for it if you want. But if you stay and listen longer, or maybe on another base, and you never got the data of the new outfit to hunt you, you hear of the path of an ambush.. bleep... you have a new target that talks about the possibility of something happening. It doesn't even need to be marked. Really. Or maybe you find a convoy of enemies going and as you follow them you see them setup camp to set up an ambush or something.
Or if you steal something from a fortress, instead of knowing you can just run away without the enemies pursuing, they have bikes, and jeeps that hunt you down. They send helicopters to track you down and are more effective, than just hiding behind a rock for a few mins until they forget anything ever happened.
I dunno.. i feel like i have to go prod at the game for it to do something. When the game should be the one messing with me most of the time.
1) Don't leave the deployment to be a game you don't play.
The whole idea of sending your troops to do things that affect the game is kinda lame. The RPS article mentions this, and its true. I wish we would do this kind of thing within the game. Actually. i wish outposts and bases or fortress had this included. For example. The comms array and comms links and communication control is a good indication that you can do something to make your life easier, its not an objective, but if you tackle these, then you have more freedom. You not only do it yourself, but you see the ramification of your actions within the game in real time. This is awesome!!! The game needs more of this.
What if there is a base that supplies all of the helmets and upgrades to other outposts? then you can take these out to disable them. Not permanently, but at least until they rebuild it. Its a handicap, and every time you go back to it, they try to adapt to your last gameplay to change things up. Barricades, air support. things of the sort.
BUt lets take this even further. This place sends regular shipments by truck to supply. What if each outpost and base had a space reserved to receive this... you have options now. You can track these trucks, sneak into them, and travel into the place to infiltrate its core. Things branch from here. You can disrupt the truck and cut off the supply. you can steal the truck and reinforce your army. or you can get to the objective, disable the space in the fortress and see things happen.
Lets go even deeper tho!! If you keep disrupting the trucks... they start to supply by air.. using helicopters. you take them down, they send a detail to protect them. you keep going... they send a detail and decoys... to keep you on your toes.
The whole idea is that you are the one that is making the choice to make the game adapt to you. Not the other way around. This makes the gameplay more dynamic, and you feel like the outcome of a scenario is totally based on you, and not of something that is happening off screen.
This post sent me to hell, but we are going even deeper still. ALL FOR THE LUST OF A BETTER GAME!! so... you have all this branching. What if you left them alone... places would get reinforced, what if your actions made the world build things to respond to you. If you keep attacking a place with force they build barricades and trenches. If you tend to hit and run, they build pursue vehicles that chase you until you either engage them or you loose them and be sneaky. Even more fun, a team that is dedicated to hunting you down and ambushing you at times, this could be avoided by collecting intel and going back to some of the places to get data or disrupt or destroy certain outposts. This kind of choices really make the game react to the things you do. Having soldiers just wear a gas mask, or helmets is a great idea, but it doesn't happen as often as it should.
What else... i guess i can keep adding layers of this kind of gameplay. But the truth is... the game needs more things happening around you and affecting you, instead of waiting for you to interact with them. More wild life... like riding your jeep and you see a pack of animals just living their life. Or maybe some hienas taking on a pack of AI. I dunno... keep it fresh. there is plenty of space to make things fun.
Anyways... that is some of the ideas i was discussing and wanted to share. I am prbly full of it. what do you guys think?
TL;DR i just want things to happen.
EDIT: i just figured that the game would be a whole lot more unpredictable and fun. Think about you see these two guys at an outpost... they are talking about you infiltrating the suppliers... they said that people are upset and they are putting a group together to hunt you down... bleep.. you get a codec call from Kaz saying "Boss... this new intel, we might want to look into it" a new marker has been added to your map.
Then you can go look for it if you want. But if you stay and listen longer, or maybe on another base, and you never got the data of the new outfit to hunt you, you hear of the path of an ambush.. bleep... you have a new target that talks about the possibility of something happening. It doesn't even need to be marked. Really. Or maybe you find a convoy of enemies going and as you follow them you see them setup camp to set up an ambush or something.
Or if you steal something from a fortress, instead of knowing you can just run away without the enemies pursuing, they have bikes, and jeeps that hunt you down. They send helicopters to track you down and are more effective, than just hiding behind a rock for a few mins until they forget anything ever happened.
I dunno.. i feel like i have to go prod at the game for it to do something. When the game should be the one messing with me most of the time.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Punished Snake finds out he isn't the original Big Boss after the game's events, I think him smashing the mirror shows he might be a little angry about it, but as Big Boss says to him they are both Big Boss and what Punished Snake does in the game pretty much proves that. They are both a part of the Big Boss legend. Plus, his mind is pretty much a copy of the original Big Boss's, so it makes sense to me that he would be understanding of the plan to some extent.
Judging from the Episode 51 video I think it's safe to say that they thought they would have time to get the mission in there but just ran out of time, and by that point it was too late to change the game's plot. Eli's entire plot is integral to the way Chapter 1 ends and changing the game would take far too much time. There is also the fact that pretty much half of Chapter 2 is even based around that plot thread and removing that would make Chapter 2 even more lackluster in terms of the things you do as a player. The best you're gonna get on that front is the video for Episode 51, it covers all of the plot that would have been in the mission. I know, it's not ideal, but sadly the events that happened between Kojima and Konami probably made a delay to finish the game impossible.
Same, as I was playing it I thought it would be cool if they set a Deja Vu mission on MB revolving around MGS2 like the one in GZ for MGS1.
Upgrade the prosthetic arm.
I'm not even kidding. I guess they add adrenaline to it.
crazyrabbits
Banned
I've amended my list since then.
- "80's Filter": Cut (likely in early production) for being system-intensive.
- Camp Omega Special Mission (E3 2013 Trailer): Cut for unknown reasons.
- P.T Active Decoy ("Lisa") (2014 TGS gameplay presentation): Presumably cut for relationship to the cancelled "Silent Hills" project.
- PS4/Steam-Branded Cardboard Boxes: Cut for unknown reasons.
- Missing Delivery Point Invoices (missing locations?): Removed for unknown reasons.
- Usable Battle Gear during free-roam (Piggyback Collector's Edition strategy guide): Cut for balance reasons.
- Roaming animals on Command Platform: Cut for unknown reasons.
- Unused "Chapter 3 - Peace" Title Card: Unused for unknown reasons.
- "Burned/Skull Boss" Model (Kojima 2015 Launch Trailer): Unused for unknown reasons.
- Unused Snake/Paz Interactions: Cut for unknown reasons.
- Unused (General) Snake Dialogue: Cut for unknown reasons.
- Africa Burning Village Cutscene (E3 2014 trailer): Cut for unknown reasons.
- Africa Child Soldier Training Cutscene: Cut for unknown reasons. The sequence can be seen via gameplay, but does not transition to a cutscene.
- TGS 2014 Africa Mission (TGS 2014 gameplay presentation)
- "Mission 51" Unused Mission (found on CE Blu-Ray disc)
- Gearnuke article / Youtube link: Unused/unknown alternate costumes from the leaked script, including "Foxtrot". "Sandstorm", "Realtree" and "Panther". Removed for unknown reasons.
(Unknown "Nuclear Waste Disposal" Ending)
Uniform descriptions from the unused outfit YT video. Most of them don't have textures attached or visible.
-- Fatigues (Naked Snake): Standard-issue combat fatigues worn by Naked Snake during Operation Snake Eater. Wear on sandy surfaces or among greenery to blend in.
-- Tuxedo (Naked Snake): Tuxedo that Naked Snake was said to have worn during Operation Snake Eater. For the gentleman who knows how to dress for the occasion.
-- Sneaking Suit (Naked Snake): Soviet Sneaking Suit worn by Naked Snake during Operation Snake Eater. In FOB missions, prevents your body heat being detected by NVG-equipped enemies.
-- Jumpsuit (Eva): Jumpsuit that the female spy EVA wore during Operation Snake Eater. The chest area can be unzipped for a tactical advantage. For female staff only.
-- Sneaking Suit (The Boss): White Sneaking Suit that The Boss wore during Operation Snake Eater. For female staff only.
-- Battle Dress (D-Horse): Alternate headcover/color designs.
-- Parade Cloth (D-Horse): Special tack for ceremonies, parades and other formal occasions, real or imagined.
-- Western Cloth (D-Horse): Perfect for imaginary travels through the Old West.
-- Battle Dress (D-Dog)
-- Miller (D-Dog): Now you can finally go into battle with Miller... or the next best thing.
-- Ocelot (D-Dog): Now you can finally go into battle with Ocelot... or the next best thing.
I still consider the Venom Africa cutscene deleted, as that specific sequence doesn't appear in the game (even if it appears to be partially reused somewhere else). Your post reminded me - we never see Ocelot/Miller randomly walking around or alongside Snake on the command platform, do we? I seem to remember something mentioning that you could do that in gameplay demos.
BTW, I find it increasingly likely that all those "missing uniforms" will be sold as DLC. There's a mod out now to unlock all the pre-order/CE bonus items (as part of a larger mod), but they appear much the same way as this - they have no textures in-game without the specific code/files, and will crash the game if you attempt to go out into the field with them.
I'd love all of this.
SictorVullivan
Member
Yeah. Easily the most grating character voice wise.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
FYI this link does not work
Kenzodielocke
Banned
The burnt down village is in the game and the bodies are there too.
mgs2master2
Banned
wasn't zero affected with the parasites or whatever in 1974? as a result he slowly was going brain dead over it.
I don't know, I think he sounds okay, the Hamburger tapes were hillarious. It's just that he keeps repeating a bad wikipedia article in the reasearch tapes.
1) As far as I'm aware of, no.
2) Dunno.
3) Most of them, but not those two. Seems like Psychics and some mystical stuff still exist in Kojima's world, but most other powers he tries to explain away with Nanomachines or Parasites.
4) Yup, seems like it.
5) I don't really think they ever go into detail about this at all, it just sorta happens and they reference it sometimes in the tapes/story. At the time it happened though, I think BB was still with Zero, so it probably wouldn't have been too hard to get the DNA. I think before it was supposed to be during his coma, but from what I remember it seems like that got retconned.
6) The ending doesn't really fill in a lot of blanks, so I dunno if I'd call it an inconsistency. It's just not really explained at all.
7) I think he confirmed that some aspects of PO are definitely canon, as long as they don't conflict with his updated timeline. Dunno about revengeance, but there's no reason why it couldn't be canon.
8) I think the whole doppleganger thing was just Kojima being weird. The in story reason seems to be that Zero felt bad and devised it as a convoluted plan to keep Big Boss safe. Big Boss just decided to roll with it so he could make Outer Heaven in secret while Venom built up his legend and kept the heat off of him.
crazyrabbits
Banned
True, but that specific cutscene isn't in the game. I don't consider a partial reuse of it in a completely different context to be the same thing.
Will amend - looks like the link was pulled.
zero shift
Banned
I'm surprised that this game has so many negative reactions.
I mean I will admit it is in someways disappointing but not as disappointing as MGSIV or MGS3 (Snake Eater, not Subsistence). People even going as far as to be glad Kojima is leaving the series.
Maybe this game will be similar to MGS2, looked more fondly back over time.
IIRC the game was suppose to have multiple open worlds like Afghanistan and Africa, but it was cut. I believe it was suppose to have Latin America and some arctic area.
I mean I will admit it is in someways disappointing but not as disappointing as MGSIV or MGS3 (Snake Eater, not Subsistence). People even going as far as to be glad Kojima is leaving the series.
Maybe this game will be similar to MGS2, looked more fondly back over time.
IIRC the game was suppose to have multiple open worlds like Afghanistan and Africa, but it was cut. I believe it was suppose to have Latin America and some arctic area.
Speak for yourself.
i just figured that the game would be a whole lot more unpredictable and fun. Think about you see these two guys at an outpost... they are talking about you infiltrating the suppliers... they said that people are upset and they are putting a group together to hunt you down... bleep.. you get a codec call from Kaz saying "Boss... this new intel, we might want to look into it" a new marker has been added to your map.
Then you can go look for it if you want. But if you stay and listen longer, or maybe on another base, and you never got the data of the new outfit to hunt you, you hear of the path of an ambush.. bleep... you have a new target that talks about the possibility of something happening. It doesn't even need to be marked. Really. Or maybe you find a convoy of enemies going and as you follow them you see them setup camp to set up an ambush or something.
Or if you steal something from a fortress, instead of knowing you can just run away without the enemies pursuing, they have bikes, and jeeps that hunt you down. They send helicopters to track you down and are more effective, than just hiding behind a rock for a few mins until they forget anything ever happened.
I dunno.. i feel like i have to go prod at the game for it to do something. When the game should be the one messing with me most of the time.
Yeah that really bugs me. I'm okay with the Venom twist itself, but the delivery was awful. There could have been a 20 minute cutscene for old times sake. We did get some awesome tapes with Zero, I would have loved to see them come to life. Zero and Big Boss started this mess, would have been nice to see them closeout Kojima's part of the Metal Gear saga.
No. their faces are wrapped with bandages.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think you need to let go.
Is an extra boss fight or two really going to make any difference? Does how the English strain of vocal-cord parasite virus get destroyed really matter? Its a mcguffin.
I'm really having a hard time figuring out exactly what people think they are missing out on.
If you were expecting a sudden BB heel-turn, you just fell into Kojima's misdirection - the key theme of the MG saga is that there is no absolute enemy, its always relative.
The story as it stands accomplishes what it needs to. Some people just don't like it, and the way its presented and structured in order to support the base-building online metagame.
And that's fine.
Just don't think that adding an extra boss-fight against sahalanthropus at the end would make much difference.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
It's a shame this couldn't happen.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Some, yes, but while the way Mantis's powers work is explained, it is not explained why he has them.
yeah, i guess you're right
Very good ideas! I feel like so many things could be done to improve this game...It would take the team 2-3 more years to really make the game we wanted.
even without all of these improvements. i think the game needed at least another year to wrap it up and for tpp to be consistent all across.
zero shift
Banned
Snake Eater was disappointing because it was so difficult to predict where the enemies were. It meant that you had to constantly switch from overhead to first person and it was very annoying. Subsistence fixed this.
It probably would have taken another $80 million to come into fruition.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Love these
Kenzodielocke
Banned
the gameplay is great, but is really repetitive for such a long game. What a shame. Everytime I load this game up it gets more boring tbh.
Love Deterrence
Member
Another thing bugging me about this game is the quality of the cassette tapes. I felt that they were acted out well and meaningful in Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes, whereas here they feel like cheap cutscene replacements (which wasn't a concern I had going into the game). All the off-screen deaths really reinforce this feeling I have about them.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Cheap ass Konami
ShockingAlberto
Member
Also, one thing I am curious about.
Ocelot and Miller take sides at the end of MGS5. Miller chooses David and trains him to defeat the Big Bosses, Ocelot chooses Liquid to help him defeat Miller and preserve the age of Big Boss.
Everything up through someone killing Miller (either Ocelot or Liquid) makes sense with that, but then Ocelot double-crossing Liquid to help Solidus take down the patriots doesn't. If he looped Liquid in, I am pretty sure he'd be down with the plan to take down the people that ruined his childhood and created him to be a failed clone of Big Boss.
The more I think about it, the less I think Liquid needed to be involved at all in this game.
Ocelot and Miller take sides at the end of MGS5. Miller chooses David and trains him to defeat the Big Bosses, Ocelot chooses Liquid to help him defeat Miller and preserve the age of Big Boss.
Everything up through someone killing Miller (either Ocelot or Liquid) makes sense with that, but then Ocelot double-crossing Liquid to help Solidus take down the patriots doesn't. If he looped Liquid in, I am pretty sure he'd be down with the plan to take down the people that ruined his childhood and created him to be a failed clone of Big Boss.
The more I think about it, the less I think Liquid needed to be involved at all in this game.
This is a big one for me: I think the main story missions needed a cutscene to gameplay ratio similar to GZ. That would have really helped the story feel more meaty.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Repost.
Okay, so I said yesterday that I would write up how I'd re-write MGSV. Why? Because this is my closure. I hope you guys like it.
Firstly, I feel like there isn't a proper structure. So here's how we play it.
Breaking Bad.
Bear with me now. Breaking Bad is the storyline of a "good" man who embraces a monster inside him so that he may feel powerful. He becomes a rising crime lord and he eventually falls, hard.
MGSV isn't Breaking Bad, but it should follow a similar structure, a good man who is essentially becoming the villain to everyone around despite not seeing it initially. But for MGSV, I see it more like... Catalyst (destruction of Mother Base), Rise (Afghanistan/Africa), Fall (Confrontation/The Truth).
Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
Left as is.
Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler - Early 1984
The opening is pretty phenomenal. I'd leave it as-is, however I'd greatly extend it by including a Whaler section that allows Venom to explore the ship and get used to his new arm and such. Something short, but I want something a bit more impactful than the montage we get. Actually make us work with Venom to bulk him up a bit. I'd make the hospital scenes a bit more surreal, and see if we can work in some hallucinatory segment in the Whaler. Maybe visions of The Boss or having Venom imagine he's in a field of blood red flowers while standing on the deck of the Whaler. It's basically his programming bleeding through and influencing him.
Oh, and we should have gotten a wicked Kyle Cooper Bond-esque intro sequence with the 1980s inspired 'A Phantom Pain' track like how we had one in Snake Eater. Fill it with psychological imagery, broken mirrors, fire, blood, broken limbs, mechanical limbs, etc.
Chapter 2 - Afghanistan - Early/Mid 1984
For one thing, let's strip out some of those filler missions and have those be side-ops and bulk up the narrative in Afghanistan. The first missions is obviously rescuing Kaz, but let's have Venom encounter Quiet early on first before the next few missions mention her via the Russian troop dialogue. It's strange to utilize the Side Ops to turn it into a standard Episode to take Huey and meet Quiet.
Honestly, we also should have gotten a motorcycle here.
It would have made the vast expanse quicker and more fun to cross, it would have given another great option when engaging in open world stealth/traversal, and we could have gotten some wicked chases and shit.
Also, we're in Soviet controlled Afghanistan... why don't we have a bow?
Anyways, this chapter you get DD, Huey, and Quiet, while encountering Eli.
We're also lacking thorougly in boss battles and the fact that the Soviets... aren't fighting anyone!
Like MGS4, this really should be Snake wading into a pre-existing war. Why not be able to help the Mujahdeen? Save villages? Avoid them or make a choice? What kind of man is Venom, and by extension, you?
We have no bosses here either, so a longer, multi-stage battle with Quiet would be good. How about a battle against a legendary Afghan warrior that ends with you convincing him to join your crusade? An insane Soviet tank commander? There's very cool missions and gameplay, but there aren't enough of these dramatic punch moments.
And also, throughout this, let's get some interludes at Mother Base where Snake is suffering hallucinatory symptoms. Maybe you're walking along the medical base and you hear Eva's voice off in the distance, or The Boss telling you something, or Kiefer Sutherland as Naked Snake saying things, but Venom is not saying them. Doubt your sense of reality, but find grounding in the mission of revenge.
But one thing we really, really need, is a proper drive to solve the mystery. No meandering missions that just exist... End Afghanistan with the confrontation between Sehelanthropus, Mantis, and The Man on Fire, who continues to pursue Snake as he escapes.
Another idea is that Skullface has no crew similar to the Cobra Unit, FOXHOUND, and Dead Cell. That's weird. XOF should be a psychotic nightmare unit that uses gifted children like Eli and Mantis and turns them into weapons. Maybe Venom can save some, others he can't. Skull Face breaks these kids down and brainwashes them to do his bidding. That would have originally been his plan with Chico before Chico died.
Chapter 3 - Angola - Mid/Late 1984
So now we go to Africa, where Skull Face has set up operations as he continues to put together his plot.
The battle here is far nastier than in Afghanistan. I think just having the PFs isn't enough. This is during the Angolan Civil War.
Why on earth isn't this basically Hell on Earth? That's what it should be. This is where the legend of Big Boss needs to take on fiery, epic proportions. Why not have Skull Face playing both sides of the conflict, while fucking with the PFs, creating this nasty hornet's nest that Venom needs to wade through to get to Skull Face and Zero and kill them?
This is a situation that is fraught with wicked problems. Child Soldiers, Cold War Proxy war, Cipher civil war, ethnic cleansing. This is where the myth of Bis Boss is born.
During this chapter, the bonds between Quiet and Venom grow. DD grows up. Ocelot becomes more important to the running of Mother Base while Miller grows more marginalized. Huey's return causes tension but he tries to ingratiate himself to the crew. This is where Eli's presence comes about. This entire chapter is the build up and disintegration of relationships. Now, Quiet can't speak, so we need to go via sign language, facial expressions, etc. Ocelot and Miller are constantly at odds.
The missions in Africa are essentially about trying to erode Skull Face's support while increasing support for Diamond Dogs, and Venom and Skull Face mimic the Cold War by using proxies for their battles (the side ops/combat ops missions). Now these are sustained narrative missions that lead to...
Chapter 4 - Final Confrontation - Late 1984.
Okay, everything in Chapter 2 of the original game, we slice out and put here.
So this is a series of missions spread across Afghanistan, Angola, and Guantanamo that leads to a final confrontation between Skull Face and Venom.
None of this bullshit:
No, here's what I'd do:
Huey unleashes the parasites on Mother Base early in this chapter, forcing Snake to kill many of his own men, essentially decimating the ranks of Diamond Dogs and throwing everyone into despair after their victories in Chapters 2 and 3. After dealing with Huey, the Diamond Dogs have no choice but to take one final stand against Skull Face and Cipher. Low on resources and manpower, the surviving Diamond Dog members take the retro-fitted Whaler and go after Skull Face, at his last holdout...
Camp Omega. In the decade since Snake's coma, the camp has expanded to the size of a small village, with loyal XOF agents everywhere. It's a goddamn fortress.
Of course... the retrofitted Whaler... has goddamn cannons and the Diamond Dogs shell the coast, setting everything on fire. How could Ahab have killed the White Whale? By setting the entire world on fire.
Venom, Quiet, Ocelot, DD, and the surviving Diamond Dogs invade the Island, and it turns into a nightmarish hell on earth. This is where BB gets the rep for child soldiers, as all the orphans he rescued volunteer to help because they want to protect their new home. They load the cannons on the ship.
Venom comes face-to-face with the Man on Fire for the third and final time, where you realize that The Man on Fire is not real. He's another figment of Venom's broken mind pushed by Mantis's powers, a mutated phantom memory relentlessly haunting him.
Quiet is killed saving Big Boss from Skull Face, while Ocelot and Miller command the Diamond Dogs into dealing with surviving XOF psychos. Ocelot and Miller are able to take down Mantis and co, forcing him to retreat. Venom cracks.
That leaves Big Boss and Skull Face alone. Here, Skull Face reveals his master plan as the island burns around them. He asks if Snake understands, cause he's at the end, desperate to have someone else understand.
Snake's response is "I don't care."
They should have had Sins of the Father play over the final confrontation between Skullface and Snake. I mean, imagine it playing over this:
The battle they do is a shadowy mirror of the battle between Naked Snake and The Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, however, instead of a field of white lillies, it's in a burning field with ash raining around them. They fight messily, bloodily, it's nearly inhuman. Without Mantis, Skull Face can't puppet Sehelanthropus. Snake bests Skull Face, and before finally killing him, Skull Face tells him the truth:
Both Skull Face and Venom Snake are simply shadows of the real Big Boss. Skull Face, the faceless man in the shadows behind his missions, and Venom, the faceless decoy with false memories and a false life.
Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
This is where it gets fucking surreal. Venom's real memories begin to break through the dam, mixing with Naked Snake's memories. The real world turns transitory while Venom is losing his goddamn mind. Here, Kojima could just go insane. This is Fight Club level crazy. Echoes of Silent Hill, why not.
I was actually thinking some of Hannibal's crazy moments. Anyway, you play through some crazy trippy levels where you can redo the Sorrow walk from MGS3, something from Peace Walker, and a bloody rendition of when the Medic got into a coma. A vision of Quiet leads him back to sanity... a vision that can talk. We can have a great long conversation here, like between Naked Snake and The Boss. Eventually, Venom gets his shit together and escapes, only to find out Eli has taken Sehelanthropus. We've already had the climax at this point though, so...
well, whatever, this is the final mission. Eli takes Sehelanthropus, however without Mantis at full strength, his Kingdom of the Flies stands no chance against Big Boss. That amazing scene at the end of Kingdom plays in its entirety, showing Eli's hatred of Big Boss, and Venom finally assuming the mantle of Big Boss, fully.
Epilogue - Outer Heaven - Sometime between 1985 and 1995.
lol, no.
Well, maybe.
Here's my ideal final scene. We intercut between two scenes. One, an older man with a horn in his head looking at his scarred visage in the mirror. He knows he is gonna die today. Win or lose. This is the end. The final tape, the one from 46 that was cut, plays.
The other scene? A young man HALO jumps towards a remote location in Africa.
He has some dialogue with a voice over the radio the concludes with his commanding officer telling him... "I have faith in you, son."
As the young man begins his infiltration, Venom punches the mirror. Credits roll.
The scene after the credits is the real Big Boss and Ocelot speaking to one another in 1984, where Big Boss and Ocelot talk about Venom and their faith in him. Twenty minute long emotional cutscene about them questioning their tactics and wondering if they'll ever be forgiven for what they'll do. Talk about the Boss. Closure.
Okay, so I said yesterday that I would write up how I'd re-write MGSV. Why? Because this is my closure. I hope you guys like it.
Firstly, I feel like there isn't a proper structure. So here's how we play it.
Breaking Bad.
Bear with me now. Breaking Bad is the storyline of a "good" man who embraces a monster inside him so that he may feel powerful. He becomes a rising crime lord and he eventually falls, hard.
MGSV isn't Breaking Bad, but it should follow a similar structure, a good man who is essentially becoming the villain to everyone around despite not seeing it initially. But for MGSV, I see it more like... Catalyst (destruction of Mother Base), Rise (Afghanistan/Africa), Fall (Confrontation/The Truth).
Prologue - Ground Zeroes - 1974
Left as is.
Chapter 1 - Cypress/Whaler - Early 1984
The opening is pretty phenomenal. I'd leave it as-is, however I'd greatly extend it by including a Whaler section that allows Venom to explore the ship and get used to his new arm and such. Something short, but I want something a bit more impactful than the montage we get. Actually make us work with Venom to bulk him up a bit. I'd make the hospital scenes a bit more surreal, and see if we can work in some hallucinatory segment in the Whaler. Maybe visions of The Boss or having Venom imagine he's in a field of blood red flowers while standing on the deck of the Whaler. It's basically his programming bleeding through and influencing him.
Oh, and we should have gotten a wicked Kyle Cooper Bond-esque intro sequence with the 1980s inspired 'A Phantom Pain' track like how we had one in Snake Eater. Fill it with psychological imagery, broken mirrors, fire, blood, broken limbs, mechanical limbs, etc.
Chapter 2 - Afghanistan - Early/Mid 1984
For one thing, let's strip out some of those filler missions and have those be side-ops and bulk up the narrative in Afghanistan. The first missions is obviously rescuing Kaz, but let's have Venom encounter Quiet early on first before the next few missions mention her via the Russian troop dialogue. It's strange to utilize the Side Ops to turn it into a standard Episode to take Huey and meet Quiet.
Honestly, we also should have gotten a motorcycle here.
It would have made the vast expanse quicker and more fun to cross, it would have given another great option when engaging in open world stealth/traversal, and we could have gotten some wicked chases and shit.
Also, we're in Soviet controlled Afghanistan... why don't we have a bow?
Anyways, this chapter you get DD, Huey, and Quiet, while encountering Eli.
We're also lacking thorougly in boss battles and the fact that the Soviets... aren't fighting anyone!
Like MGS4, this really should be Snake wading into a pre-existing war. Why not be able to help the Mujahdeen? Save villages? Avoid them or make a choice? What kind of man is Venom, and by extension, you?
We have no bosses here either, so a longer, multi-stage battle with Quiet would be good. How about a battle against a legendary Afghan warrior that ends with you convincing him to join your crusade? An insane Soviet tank commander? There's very cool missions and gameplay, but there aren't enough of these dramatic punch moments.
And also, throughout this, let's get some interludes at Mother Base where Snake is suffering hallucinatory symptoms. Maybe you're walking along the medical base and you hear Eva's voice off in the distance, or The Boss telling you something, or Kiefer Sutherland as Naked Snake saying things, but Venom is not saying them. Doubt your sense of reality, but find grounding in the mission of revenge.
But one thing we really, really need, is a proper drive to solve the mystery. No meandering missions that just exist... End Afghanistan with the confrontation between Sehelanthropus, Mantis, and The Man on Fire, who continues to pursue Snake as he escapes.
Another idea is that Skullface has no crew similar to the Cobra Unit, FOXHOUND, and Dead Cell. That's weird. XOF should be a psychotic nightmare unit that uses gifted children like Eli and Mantis and turns them into weapons. Maybe Venom can save some, others he can't. Skull Face breaks these kids down and brainwashes them to do his bidding. That would have originally been his plan with Chico before Chico died.
XOF "Specialists"
Chapter 3 - Angola - Mid/Late 1984
So now we go to Africa, where Skull Face has set up operations as he continues to put together his plot.
The battle here is far nastier than in Afghanistan. I think just having the PFs isn't enough. This is during the Angolan Civil War.
Why on earth isn't this basically Hell on Earth? That's what it should be. This is where the legend of Big Boss needs to take on fiery, epic proportions. Why not have Skull Face playing both sides of the conflict, while fucking with the PFs, creating this nasty hornet's nest that Venom needs to wade through to get to Skull Face and Zero and kill them?
This is a situation that is fraught with wicked problems. Child Soldiers, Cold War Proxy war, Cipher civil war, ethnic cleansing. This is where the myth of Bis Boss is born.
During this chapter, the bonds between Quiet and Venom grow. DD grows up. Ocelot becomes more important to the running of Mother Base while Miller grows more marginalized. Huey's return causes tension but he tries to ingratiate himself to the crew. This is where Eli's presence comes about. This entire chapter is the build up and disintegration of relationships. Now, Quiet can't speak, so we need to go via sign language, facial expressions, etc. Ocelot and Miller are constantly at odds.
The missions in Africa are essentially about trying to erode Skull Face's support while increasing support for Diamond Dogs, and Venom and Skull Face mimic the Cold War by using proxies for their battles (the side ops/combat ops missions). Now these are sustained narrative missions that lead to...
Chapter 4 - Final Confrontation - Late 1984.
Okay, everything in Chapter 2 of the original game, we slice out and put here.
So this is a series of missions spread across Afghanistan, Angola, and Guantanamo that leads to a final confrontation between Skull Face and Venom.
None of this bullshit:
No, here's what I'd do:
Man, I wanted some good conversations between Snake and Skull Face.
imagine if before the final confrontation, Skull Face and Snake converse over a radio in some distant, burned land...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V_86OQViQE
Huey unleashes the parasites on Mother Base early in this chapter, forcing Snake to kill many of his own men, essentially decimating the ranks of Diamond Dogs and throwing everyone into despair after their victories in Chapters 2 and 3. After dealing with Huey, the Diamond Dogs have no choice but to take one final stand against Skull Face and Cipher. Low on resources and manpower, the surviving Diamond Dog members take the retro-fitted Whaler and go after Skull Face, at his last holdout...
Camp Omega. In the decade since Snake's coma, the camp has expanded to the size of a small village, with loyal XOF agents everywhere. It's a goddamn fortress.
Of course... the retrofitted Whaler... has goddamn cannons and the Diamond Dogs shell the coast, setting everything on fire. How could Ahab have killed the White Whale? By setting the entire world on fire.
Venom, Quiet, Ocelot, DD, and the surviving Diamond Dogs invade the Island, and it turns into a nightmarish hell on earth. This is where BB gets the rep for child soldiers, as all the orphans he rescued volunteer to help because they want to protect their new home. They load the cannons on the ship.
Venom comes face-to-face with the Man on Fire for the third and final time, where you realize that The Man on Fire is not real. He's another figment of Venom's broken mind pushed by Mantis's powers, a mutated phantom memory relentlessly haunting him.
Quiet is killed saving Big Boss from Skull Face, while Ocelot and Miller command the Diamond Dogs into dealing with surviving XOF psychos. Ocelot and Miller are able to take down Mantis and co, forcing him to retreat. Venom cracks.
Standing on the edge of the crater
Like the prophets once said
And the ashes are all cold now
No more bullets, and the embers are dead
That leaves Big Boss and Skull Face alone. Here, Skull Face reveals his master plan as the island burns around them. He asks if Snake understands, cause he's at the end, desperate to have someone else understand.
Snake's response is "I don't care."
They should have had Sins of the Father play over the final confrontation between Skullface and Snake. I mean, imagine it playing over this:
"One must die and one must live. No victory, no defeat."
The battle they do is a shadowy mirror of the battle between Naked Snake and The Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, however, instead of a field of white lillies, it's in a burning field with ash raining around them. They fight messily, bloodily, it's nearly inhuman. Without Mantis, Skull Face can't puppet Sehelanthropus. Snake bests Skull Face, and before finally killing him, Skull Face tells him the truth:
"Say 'what' again. Say 'what' again, I dare you, I double dare you motherfucker, say what one more Goddamn time! "
Both Skull Face and Venom Snake are simply shadows of the real Big Boss. Skull Face, the faceless man in the shadows behind his missions, and Venom, the faceless decoy with false memories and a false life.
Chapter 5 - The Truth - Late 1984
"This story, this legend? It's ours. We can change the world, and with it, the future. I am you, and you are me. Carry that with you, wherever you go."
This is where it gets fucking surreal. Venom's real memories begin to break through the dam, mixing with Naked Snake's memories. The real world turns transitory while Venom is losing his goddamn mind. Here, Kojima could just go insane. This is Fight Club level crazy. Echoes of Silent Hill, why not.
I was actually thinking some of Hannibal's crazy moments. Anyway, you play through some crazy trippy levels where you can redo the Sorrow walk from MGS3, something from Peace Walker, and a bloody rendition of when the Medic got into a coma. A vision of Quiet leads him back to sanity... a vision that can talk. We can have a great long conversation here, like between Naked Snake and The Boss. Eventually, Venom gets his shit together and escapes, only to find out Eli has taken Sehelanthropus. We've already had the climax at this point though, so...
well, whatever, this is the final mission. Eli takes Sehelanthropus, however without Mantis at full strength, his Kingdom of the Flies stands no chance against Big Boss. That amazing scene at the end of Kingdom plays in its entirety, showing Eli's hatred of Big Boss, and Venom finally assuming the mantle of Big Boss, fully.
"That's right. Don't blame yourself. Blame me."
Epilogue - Outer Heaven - Sometime between 1985 and 1995.
lol, no.
Well, maybe.
Here's my ideal final scene. We intercut between two scenes. One, an older man with a horn in his head looking at his scarred visage in the mirror. He knows he is gonna die today. Win or lose. This is the end. The final tape, the one from 46 that was cut, plays.
The other scene? A young man HALO jumps towards a remote location in Africa.
He has some dialogue with a voice over the radio the concludes with his commanding officer telling him... "I have faith in you, son."
As the young man begins his infiltration, Venom punches the mirror. Credits roll.
The scene after the credits is the real Big Boss and Ocelot speaking to one another in 1984, where Big Boss and Ocelot talk about Venom and their faith in him. Twenty minute long emotional cutscene about them questioning their tactics and wondering if they'll ever be forgiven for what they'll do. Talk about the Boss. Closure.
Absolutely. The PW and GZ tapes blow these tapes out of the water.
- Status