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[ElFly]

He was supposed to be a villain in MGS Rising, Konami's original vision for the game when it was to take place between MGS2 and 4 and be developed by KojiPro.

I'd bet money that they just wanted to reuse the assets they developed for that project.

Hahaha that's awesome. Maybe there's a Phantom Volgin that Raiden could fight.


That reminds me, at the start of The Truth mission, when the game finally comes clean, I thought "hey, if there's another Big Boss running around, maybe they can use him as a new villain for the series so Solid can come out of retirement for a last adventure or something".

But then they just use him to be killed during Metal Gear 1. Such a waste of time. Did we really need an explanation for how BB survived Outer Heaven?

So...is there ever a reason we don't give Miller some sick robot parts?

He is a crazy person with a gift for management, so it's better to keep him pushing numbers.

It doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Maybe it was actually Venom and Miller who trained SS? I don't like it either way, but that's always a possibility I guess.

I think OG BB went on to create Foxhound, while Diamond Dogs eventually morphed into Outer Heaven. At some point Miller is told by Ocelot about Phantom's identity, and he decides to join Foxhound with OG BB, because he dislikes being used to create a mercenary nation.

OFC he is played like a fiddle by OG BB because Outer Heaven was his plan after all.

 

[ThatArcher]

The ruse is up after you fight him on the lab and blast some water towers over him.

I think that Ocelot also gives credence to the idea that the man on fire was real from the beginning.

The fucked up thing is that nothing means anything, since Kaz and Ocelot are in the initial cutscene where Paz was in, so Phantom BB also hallucinated them there.

They really do very little with the possible mental effects of the explosion on Venom.

The whole colorblind/seizure element seemed amazing in Chapter 3. Also how red becomes blue in the hospital was cool. Should have been used more

 

[Edzi]

So...is there ever a reason we don't give Miller some sick robot parts?

Early on he says something about him wanting to feel the phantom pain so he never forgets about his lost men and revenge. It was kind of melodramatic, but that's Kaz for you.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Incidentally, Mantis being personality-less actually doesn't jive with his backstory that well.

He grew up angry and bitter because his father resented him for his mother dying in childbirth, so he killed him and burned down the village. Going from that to "I dunno, I'm just gonna follow whatever angry feelings I find" seems odd.

It would have made some decent sense for him to find men with conviction like Boss, Volgin, and Skullface and follow them because he wanted a father, and then a friend in Eli. But nope, he was like a dog that can sense when it's raining.

 

[SJRB]

The ruse is up after you fight him on the lab and blast some water towers over him.

I think that Ocelot also gives credence to the idea that the man on fire was real from the beginning.

The fucked up thing is that nothing means anything, since Kaz and Ocelot are in the initial cutscene where Paz was in, so Phantom BB also hallucinated them there.

They really do very little with the possible mental effects of the explosion on Venom.

I think that's actually the interesting part. You're told at the start that you might suffer from hallucinations. All this crazy shit happens, constantly throwing you off balance. "Is this real? Can no one else see this levitating kid? What the fuck is going on?" When it turns out that everything is real, nothing is a hallucination but your entire life, all your achievements since you awoke from a coma are fake, in a sense. Everything except the Paz quest, which is formed by the Medic's huge sense of guilt [and probably 120 of her bone and teeth fragments in his body].

Volgin specifically is interesting, because from the very start Big Boss doesn't recognize him as Volgin. He is referred to as "The Man On Fire", even by Ocelot until you unlock one of the final Man on Fire tapes and Ocelot has no choice but to name drop that the Man on Fire is Volgin. I suppose to keep the ruse up since the Medic has no reason to have any idea who the fuck Volgin is.


I agree that including Miller and Ocelot in the Paz hallucination is dirty, and makes the entire thing feel "cheap". It's pushing the "unreliable narrator" concept too far.

So...is there ever a reason we don't give Miller some sick robot parts?

This is explained in a tape, where Miller states he doesn't want artificial limbs because his phantom pain keeps him going. It's the fuel to his rage, I suppose.

 

[GeekMarty]

Special Thanks on Rain for PS3, that's it. Really weird how he's just disappeared like that. Then again, so has Shinta Nojiri, who directed the AC!D games and Ghost Babel.

Erased from history by the Patriots :O

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Early on he says something about him wanting to feel the phantom pain so he never forgets about his lost men and revenge. It was kind of melodramatic, but that's Kaz for you.

But then after they clearly get revenge on Skullface and put it to bed, he still doesn't do it.

I think Miller just subsists on being angry.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Incidentally, Mantis being personality-less actually doesn't jive with his backstory that well.

He grew up angry and bitter because his father resented him for his mother dying in childbirth, so he killed him and burned down the village. Going from that to "I dunno, I'm just gonna follow whatever angry feelings I find" seems odd.

It would have made some decent sense for him to find men with conviction like Boss, Volgin, and Skullface and follow them because he wanted a father, and then a friend in Eli. But nope, he was like a dog that can sense when it's raining.

He also somehow ends up at the KGB late ron in life and gets "infected" with the mind of a killer. His back story is so convoluted (and kinda awesome, actually). I was worried that Kojima would do something stupid with Mantis and to be honest, it wasn't so bad, especially compared with how things turned out with certain other characters in the later games.

 

[Chariot]

Actually, why doesn't Mantis connect to Miller? Sounds like a match in heaven to me.

 

[zero shift]

I don't understand why Kojima just didn't tie up more loose ends with this game. What's the point of continuing being vague?

 

[[HP]]

Things get cut from games and I think it's fine.

But it's also fine to call MGS5 fairly incomplete, because it is. Chapter 2 has no logical flow. Chapter 1 has an anti-climactic ending. Major plot points have no resolution and could be totally excised and not change the story at all.

It's hard to get too mad, because we know what was happening at Konami, and the fact that the gameplay was so good makes up for a lot. Then again, this was a poor ending for the series, a bad look for Kojima, and everyone here paid their $60 for different reasons.

Agree, with all of it.

Although, I feel the need to add that, I feel that pretty much all of us, including the ones that think this isn't exactly a good MGS game, got more than their moneys worth.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think that's actually the interesting part. You're told at the start that you might suffer from hallucinations. All this crazy shit happens, constantly throwing you off balance. "Is this real? Can no one else see this levitating kid? What the fuck is going on?" When it turns out that everything is real, nothing is a hallucination but your entire life, all your achievements since you awoke from a coma are fake, in a sense. Everything except the Paz quest, which is formed by the Medic's huge sense of guilt [and probably 120 of her bone and teeth fragments in his body].

Volgin specifically is interesting, because from the very start Big Boss doesn't recognize him as Volgin. He is referred to as "The Man On Fire", even by Ocelot until you unlock one of the final Man on Fire tapes and Ocelot has no choice but to name drop that the Man on Fire is Volgin. I suppose to keep the ruse up since the Medic has no reason to have any idea who the fuck Volgin is.

The problem is that it very clearly becomes not a hallucination when it starts affecting things and other people start acknowledging it.

It'd be a one thing if you were waiting for Ishmael down some stairs and the Volgin started charging at you, but he killed like four people in front of both of you.

 

[SJRB]

But then after they clearly get revenge on Skullface and put it to bed, he still doesn't do it.

I think Miller just subsists on being angry.

Mother Base staff comment on this, occasionally. They talk about how angry and basically how much of a dick Miller is, even now that Skull Face is dead he's still angry all the time.

 

[SRTtoZ]

FILLER THE FUCKING GAME IT SHOULD BE CALLED. Couldn't even finish it. I put upwards of 50+ hours into it and was somewhere in the beginning/middle of chapter 2 and just said fuck it, sent it off to amazon for $40 worth of credit. The story makes zero fucking sense, the game feels unfinished, the pacing is FUCKED, and in the end it gets so boring because you keep doing the same shit extracting a bunch of nobodies (it was the kids that put me over the edge) with zero story to keep you wanting to move forward. Honestly, just very disappointed since the game starts out so great and slowly starts to fall apart before becoming literally the same shit over and over again. Seriously how many intel agents or whatever do you need to extract before you stop giving a shit? Worst MGS game in the series, by far. Good riddance.

Spoiler

Gameplay was fun tho.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

But then after they clearly get revenge on Skullface and put it to bed, he still doesn't do it.

I think Miller just subsists on being angry.

Maybe Miller finds out that Venom is a fake right after Skull Face dies, because that's the only reason I can think of for why he becomes even more angry and paranoid around Mother Base after the dude they've been fighting is killed.

 

[Dick Justice]

Still the best thing to come out of this game's story.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Maybe Miller finds out that Venom is a fake right after Skull Face dies, because that's the only reason I can think of for why he becomes even more angry and paranoid around Mother Base after the dude they've been fighting is killed.

That would make the Ash scene make far more sense.

Venom: I won't put you in the unforgiving ocean. *rubs all over face*
Miller: (Oh my fucking god are you fucking kidding me, what the fuck is he doing.) Uh, Snake
Venom: WE'RE GONNA MAKE THESE GUYS INTO DIAMONDS I HAVE METAL IN MY HEAD
Miller: (Ugggggh are you serious) Great idea, Snake! We can wear them into battle! (Just a few more years, then we'll kill Big Boss, just a few more years)

 

[LowParry]

The more time goes by the more I hate the story in this game hah and I HATED it initially.

I just hate it. Period. I want my linear MGS back now. My 15 minute conversation that talks about each boss and their history. And the crazy shit that throws you into a confused loop. Bosses. Man. I wanted those so so much too. Meh. The gameplay is so good though. Honestly I can say this will not be in my GOTY. Far from it.

 

[Love Deterrence]

A Shinta Nojiri Game
Metal Gear Solid 6: Household Ops

Featuring Gene as the lead character

WE FINALLY PLAY AS A VILLAIN

 

[SJRB]

The problem is that it very clearly becomes not a hallucination when it starts affecting things and other people start acknowledging it.

It'd be a one thing if you were waiting for Ishmael down some stairs and the Volgin started charging at you, but he killed like four people in front of both of you.

Yeah I think I would have preferred Man on Fire to appear a hallucination until a way later moment when it is revealed that he is actually real.

I love the first time you encounter him, because that stuff is 100% hallucination-worthy. Then the second time, suddenly other people see him too, shoot at him, fire missiles and even a chopper joins the fight. At that point the hallucination ruse is up, but the Psycho Mantis confusion remains.

Everything just feels so surreal regarding the Man on Fire. The chase scene on horseback, for example. Totally insane, and afterwards both Ocelot and Big Boss kinda brush it aside like it's the most normal thing ever to be chased by a flaming giant on a burning unicorn shooting kamehameha balls at you. But I suppose that was the point - throw you off balance to hide what is really going on.

 

[Super Stardust]

I've been thinking about the ending and I still don't understand a few things

1) why would big boss want another clone for himself? If venom survived all this time wouldn't he have too? Also doesn't boss dislike having clones of himself?

2) what happens with venoms mother base? Is it part of outer heaven or something?

 

[Xpike]

I just hate it. Period. I want my linear MGS back now. My 15 minute conversation that talks about each boss and their history. And the crazy shit that throws you into a confused loop. Bosses. Man. I wanted those so so much too. Meh. The gameplay is so good though. Honestly I can say this will not be in my GOTY. Far from it.

i agree, i miss old metal gear. this evolution ended up being a big fiasco.

 

[GeekMarty]

Still the best thing to come out of this game's story.

Gold!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah I think I would have preferred Man on Fire to appear a hallucination until a way later moment when it is revealed that he is actually real.

I love the first time you encounter him, because that stuff is 100% hallucination-worthy. Then the second time, suddenly other people see him too, shoot at him, fire missiles and even a chopper joins the fight. At that point the hallucination ruse is up, but the Psycho Mantis confusion remains.

Everything just feels so surreal regarding the Man on Fire. The chase scene on horseback, for example. Totally insane, and afterwards both Ocelot and Big Boss kinda brush it aside like it's the most normal thing ever to be chased by a flaming giant on a burning unicorn shooting kamehameha balls at you. But I suppose that was the point - throw you off balance to hide what is really going on.

I feel like most of this game can be summarized "Do these characters actually not know what is going on or are they just pretending not to?"

But it's used so often and not in a fun, knowing way like other MGS games.

 

[ElFly]

I wonder how much did Ocelot crapped his pants when he received Liquid into Foxhound and he started talking to him in english.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Gold!

fixed

 

[mf.luder]

I don't understand why Kojima just didn't tie up more loose ends with this game. What's the point of continuing being vague?

Not entirely sure about this but konami probably said stop wasting our money and this game is going on shelves in 4 months, wrap it up.

 

[zero shift]

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I just hate it. Period. I want my linear MGS back now. My 15 minute conversation that talks about each boss and their history. And the crazy shit that throws you into a confused loop. Bosses. Man. I wanted those so so much too. Meh. The gameplay is so good though. Honestly I can say this will not be in my GOTY. Far from it.

Exactly, exactly how I feel. I MISS Metal Gear, holy shit.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

I really liked it. Top three of the year for me, certainly.

I'm just very, very disappointed by certain aspects.

 

[Dick Justice]

fixed

Who gives a shit? Still gold.

 

[oldboss]

Sometimes I feel like including Africa was just part of the ruse, as we recognize it as a central location in the MG lore and very important to Big Boss creating Outer Heaven and putting everything in motion for the rest of the series. There's also like you say big stuff that happened with Gray Fox and Solidus Snake there in a similar time period. It's almost like Africa was implemented to get our hopes up about this actually connecting with MG1 and being the missing link only to be trolled by the ending and for it not to be all that relevant in the end.

As far as Venom Snake's story goes was Africa really essential for this game? I felt the opposite before release for obvious reasons, but actually experiencing this game's story myself it felt like the main setting was really Soviet occupied Afghanistan and Africa felt tacked on. Bulk of the missions are set in Afghan, the region we could explore was bigger and it's also where Sahelanthropus and XOF's headquarters were located. Final mission of Chapter 1 to get revenge on Skull Face brought us back there too. Quiet's final mission is also set there and she obviously got more attention than other areas of the story did. All you'd really need to do is relocate Code Talker and remove the child soldier subplot (who I thought were very disappointing in that they didn't do much with them, plus they cut Eli's ending anyway) and it would be kind of the same campaign I think just with even less variety in locale.

I mean, I know some people think the "real Outer Heaven" is referring to Zanzibar Land, but in the ending timeline if we're taking it verbatim it states that real Big Boss (not the phantom) created the Outer Heaven fortress in Africa while commanding Foxhound, but only states it's the phantom who perished there in the end. So I assume those events in Africa we were expecting to happen with Gray Fox and Naomi all actually happened behind the scenes where the story of the real Big Boss was occurring around the same time.

If my interpretation is correct and Venom didn't create the fortress from the original game, then I feel like Africa as a location really had little relevance to telling Venom's story and was tacked on to sell the idea that it was a straightforward Big Boss' closing the loop story as everyone expected.

Yep, you're on point IMO.

I'm all the more glad we didn't get to see Frank and Naomi in MGSV given how they would've met the phantom instead of the real deal. *Shivers*

This also takes me back to the MGS1 codec talk with Naomi while you're in prison. Imagine if all that would have had to be retconned to hell and back.

Well, maybe it wouldn't have changed THAT much, but my heart would've bled.

 

[Ishida]

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

It's mostly the story (Or lack of it) that gets shat upon. The gameplay itself is fine most of the time.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Who gives a shit? Still gold.

You can never take a joke can you?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Not entirely sure about this but konami probably said stop wasting our money and this game is going on shelves in 4 months, wrap it up.

So that is definitely a weird thing.

Around February, they said the game was basically done and could be out in May or June, but it was being delayed for marketing.

Clearly that wasn't true. So I don't know what that was about at all.

 

[Cronen]

So just finished Mission 30.

That jeep/monologue sequence. Jeez. Could they really not just have Snake say something. Anything?

 

[Dick Justice]

You can never take a joke can you?

Judging by your serious take on Naked Raiden in that Jimquisition thread, neither can you

Don't be salty because all your hype blew up in your face lol.

 

[CassSept]

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

The gameplay is mostly amazing, but the story is an absolute mess.

I caught up today and I have no idea why BB would harbor so much resentment towards Zero in MGS4. He must have known he was mostly a good guy whose organization got out of his control. Come on. And that's the least of the story's problems.

 

[GeekMarty]

The newest from KafkaProductions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITDZUfRsFmg

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

I guess I need to say it from time to time (every 100th page or so): I love this game.
But the only MG game I love less is PW. This entry is build entirely on gameplay and I'm okay with that, as I got the conclusion to the story with 4.

 

[SJRB]

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

It's bitter disappointment after waiting for 6 years on a game that did not deliver the story everyone expected it would.

Did we set these expectations ourselves, built over literally years of hype? Did Kojima trick us with his trailers? The answer is somewhere in the middle, I feel.


Gameplay, however, is god tier. No doubt about that, it delivered in spades.

 

[RK9039]

Man a lot of people here really hate this game.

I don't really hate it but I think it's one of the worst MGS games. I still love playing the game though.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

The gameplay is mostly amazing, but the story is an absolute mess.

I caught up today and I have no idea why BB would harbor so much resentment towards Zero in MGS4. He must have known he was mostly a good guy whose organization got out of his control. Come on. And that's the least of the story's problems.

Yeah, if anything, MGS4 makes even less sense now than it did before thanks to MGSV.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Judging by your serious take on Naked Raiden in that Jimquisition thread, neither can you

Don't be salty because all your hype blew up in your face lol.

Serious take on Raiden? lol you're the one who said MGS3 is more sexualizied than MGS2.

Don't be salty? lmao i'm not almost 24/7 here and bitch about the game, i barely posted here.

 

[Love Deterrence]

I wonder what people who've never played Metal Gear think of the story. Maybe they think it's an exotic popcorn flick and that the Metal Gear unit that was stolen by the prepubescents will be covered in the next chronological game. Or does absolutely everyone think the story is incomplete? It's gonna take me a while to forgive Kojima. "Biblical proportions story" when I can create a better narrative by rubbing a dildo across my nipples.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah, if anything, MGS4 makes even less sense now than it did before thanks to MGSV.

The amount of things Big Boss left out when talking to Snake is staggering

 

[ElFly]

Zero still created the Patriots AIs, which is the reason alluded in the MGS4 ending for BB to blame Zero.

Which...I wonder how much about the AIs did BB know. I have to guess that Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land were attempts to fish out the AIs.

But yeah, Zero was always loyal to BB, it's just they work methods conflicted and Zero fucked up the world.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

The amount of things Big Boss left out when talking to Snake is staggering

It's in that weird grey are where it's not a retcon, but it kinda is considering how Big Boss explains things in MGS4. Literally none of that conflict between Zero and BB seems to really happen that we hear so much about in MGS4. None. Of. It.

 

[Dick Justice]

Serious take on Raiden? lol you're the one who said MGS3 is more sexualizied than MGS2.

Don't be salty? lmao i'm not almost 24/7 here and bitch about the game, i barely posted here.

Yeah, I said that Raiden in 2 was comedic, you apparently didn't think so.

And you were one of the first few to start complaining about the cut child soldier scenes lol.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I just complete Chapter 1. Holy shit this story is bad. There's no emotion to it, no weight. As I said before, this game is lifeless. The acting isn't bad, but it's boring which is worse. I can't even see why they needed to do facial capture outside of saving money on animation, I guess. You can't really see the nuance in the performances. And it's always weird when they separate the face and motion. It's like there is a disconnect. It's the same problem I had with LA Noire. Either go the Avatar route and do the facial and motion capture at the same time or do the motion capture and let the animators do the face like in Uncharted. It seems like they could've saved money and kept David Hayter. Kiefer really didn't bring anything to the character.

The characters themselves are lifeless. They're just vehicles for spoken lines. VS doesn't feel like a character. He feels more like a puppet. I know that it fits into the whole body double thing, or whatever meta-BS people like to come up with, but I expected more drive coming from him. They say he wants revenge, but I don't see it. The only one who really seems to have the revenge-boner is Miller and he comes off as borderline psychotic. Ocelot is a cool cucumber which is out of character for him. He's been in all of the console games and every single one he is a dick who hams it up constantly. Which is weird. It's like he decided to take a break in the 80s for some reason. Quiet is obviously not a character. As for Eli, Kojima is relying too much on MGS1 for his characterization. He's basically fanservice. Skullface is the only real character, but barely.

So far the presentation is weak. Skullface's big monologue was boring and long. And Big Boss didn't have an opinion on it. He just sat there, thinking about whatever hypnotized body doubles think while Skullfuck babbled on. And then the song kicked in while the two men stared at each other. It was so corny, and not in Kojima's usual corny way. People compare it to the ladder scene in MGS3. That scene, despite being just Snake going up a ladder, is cinematic as fuck. It was a breather moment for the player after the intense sniper fight with the End. The song kicks in a capella and calms you down. In MGS5, it served as punctuation, I guess? It plays for a bit and then Skullface starts talking again. What?

And fuck the tapes. That is literally telling, not showing.

 

[Dick Justice]

The amount of things Big Boss left out when talking to Snake is staggering

"Yeah, I totally did all that shit in the 80s. All me, baby. It's not like some random chucklefuck can take my place and be just as good, right?"