Well I still prefer this over people being forced-upset they can't turn dead DD members into diamonds and sell them for GMP.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Well I still prefer this over people being forced-upset they can't turn dead DD members into diamonds and sell them for GMP.
Heh, that's funny... but the real problem is going from that scene right to the ending. It just doesn't feel right at all.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Silent Hills will live on in Walking Dead: Survival Instinct 2
I am on the hype train to DLC Land
every mention of Silent hills or P.T breaks my hearts all over again.
That stupid thread the other day didn't help either. lol.
but, boy, was it fun.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Kojima was retconning from day 1, remenber how he said that Big Boss told Snake he was his dad in Zanzibar, or that Grey Fox taught Snake how to stop being green in Outer Heaven. Just that this time, the retcons really didn't do anything to advance the characters, but rather to explain away even more stuff that never needed explaining.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I feel like that should have been the part where Miller starts going "Hey, uh, is Big Boss crazy? Is this Big Boss?"
It's been a week or so since the ending and I forget something - pls explain.
In the Truth mission when Quiet chokes the doctor, what surgery was going to be performed? He says they have to perform the surgery now, get him ready, etc. It obviously isn't turning medic to big boss since otherwise your face wouldn't be changed the entire game, so what was it?
In the Truth mission when Quiet chokes the doctor, what surgery was going to be performed? He says they have to perform the surgery now, get him ready, etc. It obviously isn't turning medic to big boss since otherwise your face wouldn't be changed the entire game, so what was it?
Rogue Agent
Banned
Sometimes I feel like including Africa was just part of the ruse, as we recognize it as a central location in the MG lore and very important to Big Boss creating Outer Heaven and putting everything in motion for the rest of the series. There's also like you say big stuff that happened with Gray Fox and Solidus Snake there in a similar time period. It's almost like Africa was implemented to get our hopes up about this actually connecting with MG1 and being the missing link only to be trolled by the ending and for it not to be all that relevant in the end.
As far as Venom Snake's story goes was Africa really essential for this game? I felt the opposite before release for obvious reasons, but actually experiencing this game's story myself it felt like the main setting was really Soviet occupied Afghanistan and Africa felt tacked on. Bulk of the missions are set in Afghan, the region we could explore was bigger and it's also where Sahelanthropus and XOF's headquarters were located. Final mission of Chapter 1 to get revenge on Skull Face brought us back there too. Quiet's final mission is also set there and she obviously got more attention than other areas of the story did. All you'd really need to do is relocate Code Talker and remove the child soldier subplot (who I thought were very disappointing in that they didn't do much with them, plus they cut Eli's ending anyway) and it would be kind of the same campaign I think just with even less variety in locale.
I mean, I know some people think the "real Outer Heaven" is referring to Zanzibar Land, but in the ending timeline if we're taking it verbatim it states that real Big Boss (not the phantom) created the Outer Heaven fortress in Africa while commanding Foxhound, but only states it's the phantom who perished there in the end. So I assume those events in Africa we were expecting to happen with Gray Fox and Naomi all actually happened behind the scenes where the story of the real Big Boss was occurring around the same time.
If my interpretation is correct and Venom didn't create the fortress from the original game, then I feel like Africa as a location really had little relevance to telling Venom's story and was tacked on to sell the idea that it was a straightforward Big Boss' closing the loop story as everyone expected.
This is morbid, I love it.
There are better ways of doing that which don't consist of undermining an entire game's plot and characters.
Morbid cynicism, but it gets results. That's humanity for you.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
We are Diamond Dogs
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Gonna repost this because I am still a little bitter about this after I laid it out (also minor corrections)
To me there is one issue in MGSV that stands above the rest in terms of gameplay
THE FUCKING SIDE OPS
Let's break down what the 157 side ops consisted of.
A handful of story relevant side ops (like 7 or 8 with 5 of those being rescuing children which is basically extract the prisoner)
Prisoner extractions
Specialist extractions
heavy unit eliminations
armored unit eliminations
tank unit eliminations
mine disarming
Wandering mother base unit extractions
Puppet eliminations
Target practice time attack
Blueprint recovery
So 10 side ops types for 157 side missions. What the fucking shit is this.
By comparison this is what Peace Walker had for its 140 Extra ops
Target practice score attack / time attack / regular practice
Perfect stealth eliminations (dont get caught take out all targets)
Marksmanship challenges (headshots for points)
Prisoner extractions (called fulton recovery in PW)
Target demolition (plant C4 on the designated target within the time limit)
Cargo truck demolition (destroy a cargo truck and retrieve it's supplies)
Enemy unit elimination
Item capture (similar to demolition but you gotta retrieve the goodies that spill out of the thing you break open)
Intel retrieval (break in get the docs and get out)
Mine disarming
Hold up (hold a specific guard up for a shake down)
Base defense (mini horde mode basically, you get swarmed by enemies and you need to hold them off before they cross the designated line)
POW defense (similar to base defense but you have to defend a PoW from getting snatched while you fight off like 40 dudes)
Defend supplies (keep the enemies from reaching your supplies and taking them away)
Perfect stealth (sneak through the base without getting spotted to get to the goal as quickly as possible)
Obstacle demolition (sneak through an area and blow up the debris covering the goal)
Eliminate the kidnappers (kill some dudes who are taking your dudes)
Clearing an escape (clear an route to escape)
One shot (get as many points with one bullet)
Paparazzi (sneak in and take a picture of the person doing a certain task)
Ghost photography or something like that
Dead man's treasure (track the ghost to find the hidden treasure)
Pooyan Mission (Literally Pooyan redone with fulton balloons)
Missile interception (shoot down the missiles)
Date with Paz and Date with Kaz (self explanatory)
Destroy armored vehicles / tanks / choppers (redone boss fights basically)
Redux versions of the bossfights (same as above)
Monster Hunter missions (basically secret boss fights)
And I think like 1 other mission type I missed
Sure a lot of these are similar but at least THEY TRY TO BE DIFFERENT, they give you enough variety and difference in scenarios that the MGSV side ops fail to achieve. It's something like 30 unique objectives for 140 side ops. That's 3 times as much content, and I even rolled a few of the PW extra ops into one category when they could easily be considered different categories.
This is ridiculous, I was expecting the side ops to basically be MGSV variety hour like they extra ops were in PW. Not to mention the side ops in PW were basically treated as VR missions / challenge modes and the real meat of them was getting S ranks on them. It was a lot of fun, in TPP they were literally chores to get more GMP.
To me there is one issue in MGSV that stands above the rest in terms of gameplay
THE FUCKING SIDE OPS
Let's break down what the 157 side ops consisted of.
A handful of story relevant side ops (like 7 or 8 with 5 of those being rescuing children which is basically extract the prisoner)
Prisoner extractions
Specialist extractions
heavy unit eliminations
armored unit eliminations
tank unit eliminations
mine disarming
Wandering mother base unit extractions
Puppet eliminations
Target practice time attack
Blueprint recovery
So 10 side ops types for 157 side missions. What the fucking shit is this.
By comparison this is what Peace Walker had for its 140 Extra ops
Target practice score attack / time attack / regular practice
Perfect stealth eliminations (dont get caught take out all targets)
Marksmanship challenges (headshots for points)
Prisoner extractions (called fulton recovery in PW)
Target demolition (plant C4 on the designated target within the time limit)
Cargo truck demolition (destroy a cargo truck and retrieve it's supplies)
Enemy unit elimination
Item capture (similar to demolition but you gotta retrieve the goodies that spill out of the thing you break open)
Intel retrieval (break in get the docs and get out)
Mine disarming
Hold up (hold a specific guard up for a shake down)
Base defense (mini horde mode basically, you get swarmed by enemies and you need to hold them off before they cross the designated line)
POW defense (similar to base defense but you have to defend a PoW from getting snatched while you fight off like 40 dudes)
Defend supplies (keep the enemies from reaching your supplies and taking them away)
Perfect stealth (sneak through the base without getting spotted to get to the goal as quickly as possible)
Obstacle demolition (sneak through an area and blow up the debris covering the goal)
Eliminate the kidnappers (kill some dudes who are taking your dudes)
Clearing an escape (clear an route to escape)
One shot (get as many points with one bullet)
Paparazzi (sneak in and take a picture of the person doing a certain task)
Ghost photography or something like that
Dead man's treasure (track the ghost to find the hidden treasure)
Pooyan Mission (Literally Pooyan redone with fulton balloons)
Missile interception (shoot down the missiles)
Date with Paz and Date with Kaz (self explanatory)
Destroy armored vehicles / tanks / choppers (redone boss fights basically)
Redux versions of the bossfights (same as above)
Monster Hunter missions (basically secret boss fights)
And I think like 1 other mission type I missed
Sure a lot of these are similar but at least THEY TRY TO BE DIFFERENT, they give you enough variety and difference in scenarios that the MGSV side ops fail to achieve. It's something like 30 unique objectives for 140 side ops. That's 3 times as much content, and I even rolled a few of the PW extra ops into one category when they could easily be considered different categories.
This is ridiculous, I was expecting the side ops to basically be MGSV variety hour like they extra ops were in PW. Not to mention the side ops in PW were basically treated as VR missions / challenge modes and the real meat of them was getting S ranks on them. It was a lot of fun, in TPP they were literally chores to get more GMP.
SJRB
Gold Member
We are Diamond Dogs
He didn't scatter their sorrow in the heartless sea, so there's that.
crazyrabbits
Banned
I doubt it. His comment was in relation to a specific question about Ground Zeroes save transfer data. It's pretty hard to misinterpret it, but somehow people still do.
Whatever he wanted to do, it got cut or never implemented.
Exactly, the story in this game is basically pointless.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Yeah, the "We need to find out where Skullface hid this mech!"
"Oh it was right where we were. Okay."
That wasn't great.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Yeah that was baffling.
We are Diamond Dogs
Someone with talent needs to put the heads of Big Boss and Kaz in this gif.
I thought Miller knew all along he wasn't the real BB?
akidnamededdy
Banned
Nope, post credits convo points to him finding out some time after the game's events.
No, he didn't. He only got told after the story. Zero called him before the events started and told him that he had Big Boss in his care but wouldn't tell Miller where he is since the enemies of Big Boss would look for Miller as he was hi partner. He was basically blinded the whole time.
This part is actually kind of confusing, since we don't know exactly when the after credits scene between Ocelot and Miller took place. The most logical time for me would be some time after the events of MGSV, Ocelot "reawakens" to the real Big Boss and fills Miller in on the plan. Unless the conversation took place before Venom woke up and before Miller was ever captured and Ocelot's stupid self hypnosis.
I thought it was before the game, huh.
I thought that was the case, in the timeframe after Big Boss wakes up and but before Venom escapes.
Dick Justice
Banned
Mullet Snake is so much better than Ponytail Snake, it's not even funny. The GZ Sneaking Suit looks awful with the ponytail (it's the exposed neck).
ThatArcher
Member
Quick End Game Question:
Why did Ocelot have to hypnotize himself to forget about Venom Snake being fake but Kaz didn't?
Edit: NVM the posts above me did a pretty good job explaining
Why did Ocelot have to hypnotize himself to forget about Venom Snake being fake but Kaz didn't?
Edit: NVM the posts above me did a pretty good job explaining
The only problem with that is that it would have to have happened in the small timeframe between BB waking up and formulating the plan with Ocelot and Venom waking up, which is weird since why wouldn't BB just tell Kaz himself at that point. So with that in mind, I guess it'd make more sense that it happened after the main game.
Honestly? Because Kojima isn't a great writer and he probably thought it'd legitimize its usage again in MGS4, even though all it did was make it dumber.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I don't get the logistics behind how BB was commanding FOXHOUND while VS was running things in Outer Heaven, specifically during the events of the first game.
Like...is Big Boss on the radio in his office helping Snake out and then once he realizes Snake is going to get to the end and confront his body double...I mean, he could have played dumb. "Ah ha! A Big Boss impostor trading on my good name, well done Solid Snake you sure killed that guy."
But instead he uh...I guess sneaks out of the office and goes into hiding in Zanzibar Land?
Like the guys in the office..."Hey man did you hear Big. Boss was behind Outer Heaven, he was just killed in Africa."
"Uhhhhh are you sure? I just saw him get his leftover sandwich out of the fridge and leave like two hours ago."
I dunno. Being the commander of OH and simultaneously the leader of FOXHOUND are both pretty high profile jobs...I think the body double thing was supposed to explain how that was supposed to be feasible but in reality it just makes it more confusing.
Like...is Big Boss on the radio in his office helping Snake out and then once he realizes Snake is going to get to the end and confront his body double...I mean, he could have played dumb. "Ah ha! A Big Boss impostor trading on my good name, well done Solid Snake you sure killed that guy."
But instead he uh...I guess sneaks out of the office and goes into hiding in Zanzibar Land?
Like the guys in the office..."Hey man did you hear Big. Boss was behind Outer Heaven, he was just killed in Africa."
"Uhhhhh are you sure? I just saw him get his leftover sandwich out of the fridge and leave like two hours ago."
I dunno. Being the commander of OH and simultaneously the leader of FOXHOUND are both pretty high profile jobs...I think the body double thing was supposed to explain how that was supposed to be feasible but in reality it just makes it more confusing.
ShockingAlberto
Member
At that point, it is unlikely he knew. He at least didn't know when they were testing Eli's blood, because why would he even bother?
Kaz didn't knew. Only Zero, real BB and Ocelot did.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
What was EVA doing during this game
ShockingAlberto
Member
And Ocelot's hypnosis eventually stopped working, seeing as how he discussed it with Kaz post-game.
Dick Justice
Banned
Never has an opinion been so wrong.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
She secured BB and Venom in the hospital, informing Zero.
Afterwards who knows.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Maybe discovering more ways the Boss Forest Gumped her way through history by finding photos she was airbrushed out of.
Hellwarden
Member
You know, maybe it's suppose to tie into the theme of revenge making you stupid or something, but it seems everyone in MGSV is in the fucking dark.
Venom Snake doesn't know who he really is.
Miller doesn't doesn't know that he's not working with Big Boss.
Skull Face doesn't know he's not fighting Big Boss, or really how the logistics of his own plan work.
Psycho Mantis either doesn't know or doesn't care.
Eli doesn't know he's not fighting the person he's actually cloned from.
Nobody fucking knows anything!
Venom Snake doesn't know who he really is.
Miller doesn't doesn't know that he's not working with Big Boss.
Skull Face doesn't know he's not fighting Big Boss, or really how the logistics of his own plan work.
Psycho Mantis either doesn't know or doesn't care.
Eli doesn't know he's not fighting the person he's actually cloned from.
Nobody fucking knows anything!
akidnamededdy
Banned
Splashfighting and showering with the real BB.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
This game has far too much speculation and "you have to imagine it based off past entries in the series" moments for a AAA title.
Where the fuck are the over-the-top explanatory cutscenes?!? Where are the legendary boss battles?!? Where is the essence of Metal Gear in this Metal Gear game?!?
Listening to tapes is oh so much fun - watching the static image of the tape with only the reels rolling and that's it. Kojima really changed the world with this one.
Kojima should have been fired for this - oh wait!
Sumio Mondo
Member
This something that pisses me off. I was hoping to see at least some of that so called conflict between Zero and BB in some form they talked about so much in MGS4, at least. Instead, they conspire and Zero goes to his hospital bed to see how BB is doing. WTF Kojima?
Definitely. Mullet >>>> Ponytail.
Isn't she supposed to be a lead in the Les Enfants Terribles project? So I guess she is running around with a rolled up newspaper in africa screaming Eli's name, yelling all the things she is doing to his television schedule when he finally comes back.
I guess he has a trigger to remember. He didn't wanted to not know forever.
Yeah, the conflict was basically peacewalker... and that's it.
I like how Kaz goes from "u-uhm what are you d-doing, Boss?" to "Oh, that makes sense" once Venom explains the ashes -> diamonds things to him while having his face covered in ashes.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Volgin doesn't know right until the last minute either. He thought he was getting revenge on BB, but he realises his mistake and then keels over and dies for real...
Dick Justice
Banned
Confused the shit out of me. I dunno, maybe they decided to revert his face back because they knew people were coming to kill him.
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