-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
- Status
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Where can I see this?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah, I agree.
XOF should have just been a black ops split off from Cipher, and leave it at that. Why'd he take out MSF and the Boss? Because they were the only force capable enough to stop whatever his plot was, and it was a way of further eroding any possible support Zero might have gotten.
It was nothing personal. Just business, essentially.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I mean, for as shitty terrible incomplete and borderline incomprehensible as the story is, I keep doing side ops and free roaming and shit. There's that at least.
It's tossed around a lot, especially in this thread. "Last Day in Outer Heaven" or something similar
XOF and Skull Face are awful concepts which cheapens anything they touch.
Love Deterrence
Member
I just hate the fact that the only words and deeds I feel shame for are "MGSV 2015 GOTY".
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
it bugs me because we never get told exactly what they did. So you can interpret it from being the ones who laid all the item boxes lying around to being the ones who personally lowered the number of guards to 5 per area.
Yes, that too. I've already written a bunch of stuff in this thread about how much that little tidbit annoys me, and I hate that Kojima keeps doing crap like this to undermine MGS3.
You're assuming XOF was helping Big Boss as he actively moved forward. I took it as XOF having Big Boss' back and cleaning up the mess he left in his wake. There is no retconing that we defeated the Cobra's and The Boss on our own and that we sneaked through Soviet occupied Russia throughout the entirety of the game.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I was pictured skullface being the embodiment of what BB truly feels inside sort of like the joker to batman and skullface makes BB realize this that he's like him, a man driven by revenge and war.. Thus becoming a demon.
The Silver
Member
I'm perfectly with XOF helping out behind the scenes, it makes sense something like that would be there for such an important operation like Snake Eater. The government had to do everything they could to stack the deck in BB's favor.
My problem is they never go into what they did, not even one example.
My problem is they never go into what they did, not even one example.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
You know, all the ending stuff is actually fantastic...
in trailer form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITDZUfRsFmg
I haven't seen it, hopefully someone can post it.
Yeah, that would be interesting.
Edit: Found it
in trailer form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITDZUfRsFmg
I haven't seen it, hopefully someone can post it.
Yeah, that would be interesting.
Edit: Found it
Ok, this post is making me feel better about things. I've only played MGS3,4,5 so I'm not a lifelong fan of the series, but this feels like a feasible interpretation of MGSV.But this is a theme which has been consistent throughout MGS. The argument of nurture vs nature. You're not a random soldier in MGSV, you're a specific soldier who was close the Big Boss and recognized as being very talented. It's no different from how Raiden could replace Snake, and how Big Boss could replace The Boss, even though none of them are related or clones. In the end, the clones of Big Boss were the ones who were unable to replace him because they were unwilling to become him, even though they were designed for that purpose.
Solid and Liquid exist because someone wanted to experiment on the theory that cloning could make a new Big Boss, but the theory was wrong. They ended up being failed experiments which had a will of their own, and created their own destinies. That's the entire point.
There is no "evil" Big Boss. It was all a lie created by the Patriots. In MGS4 it was made pretty clear that Big Boss was made a pariah because he split from Cipher, so information was distorted to make him the villain of the world when all he was trying to do was break Cipher's control. Sure, it's a retcon, but it's a retcon from several games ago.
The marketing for MGSV was definitely deceptive though, lol.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
i like to think skullface was the one picking up snake's used bandages and anti septic bottles in a trash bag.
I don't want quiet to comfort me, let D Dog carry me home
ShockingAlberto
Member
This I absolutely agree with.
"Truth" should have come after Mission 31, with those brief flashes of the hospitalized Snake causing him to remember. Then Chapter 2 should have dealt with the fallout of it, people dealing with it, getting paranoid, not telling the men, etc.
It didn't benefit the story for the game to hold this plot twist until the very end.
The Silver
Member
sometimes i think Kojima just made the story framed for the trailers first and then plopped them into the game.
It doesn't even matter to me what they did. I just find the concept of XOF being "the other side of FOX" to be yet another unnecessary retcon when it could just be what it is at face value - an elite strike force used by Cipher. The most important thing for the enemy organization in a MGS game is to be a compelling threat. There is nothing compelling in what Skull Face and XOF turned out to be, and that along with the passive style of storytelling and the lack of agency in any of the characters dragged the narrative down a lot. It just wasn't engaging story-wise.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I am honestly choosing to ignore that piece of information.
It has no place in the story.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Also... why on earth doesn't XOF anyone besides Skullface that's... unique? There's Quiet, but he has no special forces/supernatural goons. He's just... he's got some guys. I mean, he has Mantis, but Mantis can go off to do his own shit whenever.
When they debuted XOF it was implicitly a black ops hit squad mocking FOX, which is such a great simple idea I'm amazed they fucked it up
ShockingAlberto
Member
So I have a theory that XOF and the Skulls were originally supposed to be much, much more than they are. In the same way MGS4 had MGS1 retread bosses, because it was the final mission of Solid Snake, I think MGS5 was supposed to have retreads of the Cobra unity but with more aggressive powers.
So Quiet as The End, some literal takes on the name (an enemy that strikes fear instead of being powered by it), and an actual super powered undead Volgin.
But then he ran out of time and none of that came to fruition.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Right!? It was simple. It was clear. It was frightening.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Yeah it would have been nice if Skullface had some ruthless ass scumbags working for him that were willing to do whatever it took to get the job done.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
im amazed kojima fucked up a lot of things, Skullface being one of them, but XOF is such a tiny and insignificant element in this game, and if you choose to ignore it, all the other games, that it seems low in my priority list.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think there is value to a character that has been cleaning up after Snake for years and basically presents as the bureaucratic villain to all of Snake's run-and-gun action. Snake never met a problem he couldn't shoot in the head or blow up and someone who stays in the shadows and knows exactly how he thinks would have been a good villain for him.
But Skullface is like you came in halfway through the movie and have no idea who this character is or why they're doing the things they do until they give a long exposition dump about it and it's all entirely blunted.
But Skullface is like you came in halfway through the movie and have no idea who this character is or why they're doing the things they do until they give a long exposition dump about it and it's all entirely blunted.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
So the trailers made big deals of the character's epithets but they all ended up being something else
FIXED EPITHETS
Quiet
A sniper deprived of her clothing
Ocelot
A rival who hangs out at Mother Base
Kazuhira Miller
A culinary visionary robbed of his fiddle
Eli
A youth who curses his ending
Huey
A compulsive liar who stands his ground (And kills his wife)
Skull Face
Black Ops Janitorial Division
Punished "Venom" Snake
NOT FUCKING BIG BOSS
FIXED EPITHETS
Quiet
A sniper deprived of her clothing
Ocelot
A rival who hangs out at Mother Base
Kazuhira Miller
A culinary visionary robbed of his fiddle
Eli
A youth who curses his ending
Huey
A compulsive liar who stands his ground (And kills his wife)
Skull Face
Black Ops Janitorial Division
Punished "Venom" Snake
NOT FUCKING BIG BOSS
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Those who don't exist.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm not a fan of this theory at all. Most of the problems MGSV has are systemic and not merely a lack of polish or incomplete content. The way the entire game is structured suggests that most of it is what it is by intent. More time would have simply allowed them to make more of what the game already is. It wouldn't make it something completely different.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
yeah did that actually mean anything or what
I guess that's true. It makes more sense that if Big Boss was killed twice, that there were two of him. In a way that's at least somewhat better than the tired trope of someone coming back to life.
still doesn't feel that fulfilling though.
edit:
But this is a theme which has been consistent throughout MGS. The argument of nurture vs nature. You're not a random soldier in MGSV, you're a specific soldier who was close the Big Boss and recognized as being very talented. It's no different from how Raiden could replace Snake, and how Big Boss could replace The Boss, even though none of them are related or clones. In the end, the clones of Big Boss were the ones who were unable to replace him because they were unwilling to become him, even though they were designed for that purpose.
Solid and Liquid exist because someone wanted to experiment on the theory that cloning could make a new Big Boss, but the theory was wrong. They ended up being failed experiments which had a will of their own, and created their own destinies. That's the entire point.
There is no "evil" Big Boss. It was all a lie created by the Patriots. In MGS4 it was made pretty clear that Big Boss was made a pariah because he split from Cipher, so information was distorted to make him the villain of the world when all he was trying to do was break Cipher's control. Sure, it's a retcon, but it's a retcon from several games ago.
The marketing for MGSV was definitely deceptive though, lol.
I kind of half played through MGS4 with a friend, so that's murkey to me. But that does make sense, in a very Kojima way, if Solid is being led to believe that someone is evil. Though, Big Boss does do some pretty evil shit later...
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
He needed someone to rein him in from Day 1.
Wasn't that essentially what Hot Coldman was?
Ugh, stop reminding me of Hot Coldman.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It doesn't hand wave everything, but I don't believe for a second they designed a boss health bar and only planned to use it once for the entire game.
HIDEO_KOJIMA @HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN
V released Snake who tied up his destiny,&player who tied up w/Snake, received baton to complete the circle of legend.
HIDEO_KOJIMA @HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN
This farewell isn't phantom pain. This unburriable "everlasting scent of the hero" will let you move ahead. Enjoy V.
V released Snake who tied up his destiny,&player who tied up w/Snake, received baton to complete the circle of legend.
HIDEO_KOJIMA @HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN
This farewell isn't phantom pain. This unburriable "everlasting scent of the hero" will let you move ahead. Enjoy V.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
guise srsly
We needed a motorcycle.
Gonna keep hammering this.
We needed a motorcycle.
Gonna keep hammering this.
broncobuster
Banned
Brings up a question I had. Is Skull Face's name Skull Face? Kaz or Ocelot call him the man with a skull for a face and variations on it for a time. Shortened to Skull Face to be neater. Yet outside DD, Code Talker and Huey were calling him Skull Face. Skull Face has his Skulls unit, therefore he is committed to the Skull motif. Might be over-analyzing this.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Please tell me there's a way to get the Battle Gear back if you lose it.
Supposedly it comes back on it's own after a few hours. I guess it breaks on deployments and they fix it.
You see, they shouldn't exist if not for the parasites keeping them alive...
Or some stupid shit
The Silver
Member
I agree they turned out to be a dud in the game, I just think them being the guys always in the shadow of FOX fit in with all the "two phantoms were born", "Skullface/BB being two sides of the same coin, blah blah blah. The trailers, Ground Zeroes, really built up Skully as being extemely brutal and was making it personal with BB; the darkest villain that the series has ever had, their connection with XOF/FOX was great to me. They had some good stuff there but it's all wasted in the actual game.
These are great!
Once? All the Skulls have boss health bars, it's not just Quiet. So does Sahelanthropus. There are like 6 missions where it's used.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
He lost his face and shit, probably picked out the name Skull Face himself.
The Clean-up crew fixes it. lol
That makes me wonder. Who is DD's clean-up crew. Are they going to have a chip on their shoulder in the future?
- Status