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[Raytow]

RIP indeed! The guy was a coward using a decoy, and saw the decoy not only getting through it but actually building something while he was cowardly hiding somewhere afraid of death.

You totally misunderstood what was the deal with the phantom didn't you?

 

[Broken Joystick]

inserts cd labelled THE PATRIOTS into cd player

*puts into his Walkman*
CD player, huh?

*flips disc over, puts into PS1*

 

[Salsa]

best easter egg in the game is that if you listen very closely you can actually hear kojima masturbating during this bit:

 

[RK9039]

The difference between MGS2 and MGS V is that the trailers and marketing for MGS2 were all for the purpose of hiding the fact you played as Raiden. The MGS V trailers nearly outright spoil the Venom Snake twist, that's another reason it didn't work.

And the other small differences being one of them has a much better story, with better pacing and characters/character development while the other seems like fan-fiction.

 

[Ishida]

RIP indeed! The guy was a coward using a decoy, and saw the decoy not only getting through it but actually building something while he was cowardly hiding somewhere afraid of death.

-"Hey, the guy who used to be your friend but then cloned you behind your back, and then sent a spy disguised as a schoolgirl to steal your Metal Gear to try and force you to cooperate, but if you denied she would launch a nuclear strike at the US to blame you now has this amazing plan to make a body double for you".

-"Sounds balls. Count me in."

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Was more like necrophilia to me. She looked drowned and dead at that point.

Which is why they thought took her pants off. First female they came across in who know how long.

-"Hey, the guy who used to be your friend but then cloned you behind your back, and then sent a spy disguised as a schoolgirl to steal your Metal Gear to try and force you to cooperate, but if you denied she would launch a nuclear strike at the US to blame you now has this amazing plan to make a body double for you".

-"Sounds balls. Count me in."

He was using the situation to his advantage. Instead of being the one that always got fiddled.
He didn't want Zero dead, he just wanted the world to be what he thought "The Boss" envisioned.

If there were two of him creating that world, then so be it.

sigh....All we can do is play with this half baked shit until Kojima tells us it straight (if he's allowed to anyway)

 

[Ishida]

You totally misunderstood what was the deal with the phantom didn't you?

Oh, please do explain what such "deal" was.

 

[Hakai]

You totally misunderstood what was the deal with the phantom didn't you?

enlighten me sir!

 

[Phocks]

-"Hey, the guy who used to be your friend but then cloned you behind your back, and then sent a spy disguised as a schoolgirl to steal your Metal Gear to try and force you to cooperate, but if you denied she would launch a nuclear strike at the US to blame you now has this amazing plan to make a body double for you".

-"Sounds balls. Count me in."

Zero is the craziest Ex to ever have.

 

[Amentallica]

It feels like MGS2 if MGS2 finished as soon as Raiden took his snorkel off.

Or MGS3 ending with Snake taking off the Raiden mask when landing for the virtuous mission.

 

[Raytow]

enlighten me sir!

Are both of you seriously suggesting BB is a coward? that's hilarious, there also almost an hour of tapes explaining the whole shit.

 

[RK9039]

Or MGS3 ending with Snake taking off the Raiden mask when landing for the virtuous mission.

Lol, forgot about that one. That would have been a really short game.

 

[Ishida]

Are both of you seriously suggesting BB is a coward? that's hilarious, there also almost an hour of tapes explaining the whole shit.

I'll repeat. Please explain.

 

[Amentallica]

You totally misunderstood what was the deal with the phantom didn't you?

Many of us understand it perfectly well, but just because it can be understood doesn't mean that it's good.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Also I'm betting Sins of the Father was originally intended for the Eli fight in the cut chapter.

That makes so much sense and makes me even more sad that 51 was cut

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Are both of you seriously suggesting BB is a coward? that's hilarious, there also almost an hour of tapes explaining the whole shit.

I imagine people are looking at the subtext of it.

Even if he's not prancing on his toes, he is choosing the path of the decoy instead of facing the world himself for a plan he hasn't explained to anyone and we eventually find out just amounts to stealing a bunch of nukes and maybe becoming a robot, who knows.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Was more like necrophilia to me. She looked drowned and dead at that point.

When her skin and organs have been 'replaced with parasites' I don't even know if there is a 'philia for that.

 

[Salsa]

I feel like this game would benefit the most of Zero just not existing in the whole series and rather having like a clear proper main antagonist that.. shows up in the games. something simple

i've always been on the "zero sucks he shouldnt be in these games" camp but it really hurt this game the most

the game has no antagonist. no visible threat. given how disjointed the whole thing is already, this just adds insult to injury

 

[Xpike]

I was fine with Kojima thanking me.

I just wanted it to say Chapter 3 after the credits rolled.

Then after that Chapters 4 and 5 or Prologue while giving me more Big Boss, Liquid and finally Solid Snake.

To be perfectly honest I was spoiled on the Big Boss twist thanks to some asshole but I still thought "Well, I guess the switch is up in like the final mission and we get to play as the real Boss at the end, reclaiming his life and stuff, right?"

That would've been great...

 

[Rymuth]

Are both of you seriously suggesting BB is a coward? that's hilarious, there also almost an hour of tapes explaining the whole shit.

Leaving his best friend in a dark cell to be blinded, dismembered and possibly executed, sounds pretty cowardly to me.

 

[Amentallica]

I imagine people are looking at the subtext of it.

Even if he's not prancing on his toes, he is choosing the path of the decoy instead of facing the world himself for a plan he hasn't explained to anyone and we eventually find out just amounts to stealing a bunch of nukes and maybe becoming a robot, who knows.

I mean, I never played Peace Walker, but I did read up on some of it. Big Boss choosing to have a decoy take on his own dangers feels totally uncharacteristic of the Big Boss I came to know from Metal Gear Solid 3.

 

[Raytow]

Leaving his best friend in a dark cell to be blinded, dismembered and possibly executed, sounds pretty cowardly to me.

Kaz was a double agent in PW, he isn't exactly BFF material.

 

[Empty Space]

Are both of you seriously suggesting BB is a coward? that's hilarious, there also almost an hour of tapes explaining the whole shit.

Allowing a guy to unwittingly act as you no matter how committed to the cause is not what I would call a courageous act. Neither is stealing funds from his work without his permission to create a military nation.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

To be perfectly honest I was spoiled on the Big Boss twist thanks to some asshole but I still thought "Well, I guess the switch is up in like the final mission and we get to play as the real Boss at the end, reclaiming his life and stuff, right?"

That would've been great...

I would have been fine with being Big Medic the whole time if I got a final battle with Solid Snake at the end.
Big Boss stands over my corpse and drops some flowers on me and my rocket arm reaches up to catch a falling petal.

 

[Salsa]

i've already said it; everyone's an asshole

it's like a bunch of crazy dudes just ego-boosting from thinking they're selfless heroes

 

[zkorejo]

It was a smart plan to get the heat off him and buy him some time to achieve his dream which he might not have been able to with Zero on his tail all the time. That doesn't make him a coward.. It was a smart move.

 

[Ishida]

I mean, I never played Peace Walker, but I did read up on some of it. Big Boss choosing to have a decoy take on his own dangers feels totally uncharacteristic of the Big Boss I came to know from Metal Gear Solid 3.

Well, you tell me. This is Big Boss' final speech to his men in Peace Walker. Let's not derail this with a Hayter's performance discussion, just pay attention to the words and the attitude, and tell me if this Big Boss is a man who would do what he did in TPP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMilA34KGXw

 

[SkylineRKR]

When her skin and organs have been 'replaced with parasites' I don't even know if there is a 'philia for that.

Dendrophilia.

She's like a plant, lol.

 

[Ishida]

When her skin and organs have been 'replaced with parasites' I don't even know if there is a 'philia for that.

Wolbachiaphilia.

 

[Valonquar]

and then Eli turned to David and said "You know Solid, we really are the Last of Boss"

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Big Boss at the end of Peace Walker sounds like he's totally prepared to take on the whole world even if he damns himself in the process.

Then he takes a 9 year nap, and learns from the guy who runs the whole world that some jerk wants him dead so another guy has been set up to take the heat. Okay, catch you later, say hi to Kaz for me.

 

[Salsa]

I like how real big boss had to teach fake big boss how to fix his wounds before continuing

you know, fake big boss; the medic

 

[Davide]

i think its sad that in the future most people will probably say MGSV is the best Metal Gear game simply because it had the best gameplay, if really lacking in variety of missions.

Also funny that Venom is straight up supposed to be an avatar of the player yet I identified more with all the other protagonists in the series.

I doubt it. Ubisoft will try to copy it with Splinter Cell and eventually there will be a better open world stealth game.

As someone who just started the series with MGSV, I still know that it probably has the worst story in the series (with the most potential) and I've started MGS3 because the story is what I'm most interested in.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

This happened to me like a week prior to release. Welcome to the club!

Yeah, felt great...

 

[WrenchNinja]

I mean, I never played Peace Walker, but I did read up on some of it. Big Boss choosing to have a decoy take on his own dangers feels totally uncharacteristic of the Big Boss I came to know from Metal Gear Solid 3.

Miller: ... The Cold War's not going to last
forever. Sooner or later, it's going
to give way to an era of regional
conflicts and terrorism.

A paradigm shift from counter-Communism
to counter-terrorism.

In the new age, armies won't be tied to
states, and war will become a business.

We'll be a valuable commodity.

There'll be clients all over the world
who need our services. MSF is only the
beginning.

What we're creating here is a revolution
in itself. Am I right?

Snake: Kaz, it's... not going to be that easy.

Miller : What do you mean?

Snake: This whole Peace Walker thing has left
our mark on the history of the old order.
We've put ourselves on the radar of
intelligence agencies and governments
East and West. The whole world probably
knows about us now.

Miller : Including that Cipher outfit...

Snake: We've let ourselves interfere with the
times - with the Cold War system of
deterrence. We're an army without a flag.
We weren't supposed to take sides in
international affairs.

But we did.

Miller : I see your point.

So what happens to us now?

Snake: We'll be hunted.

Miller : Not everybody's gonna be happy with us,
huh?

Snake: You're damn right.

We upset the global military balance of
power.

Miller : And these people would rather our "army
without borders" not exist at all?

Snake: They're gonna come knocking real soon.
There's no turning back now.

We're a wrench in the old system of
deterrence. As long as the times refuse
to change, we're going to make a hell of
a racket.

Miller : Then who are we going to fight?

Snake: The establishment... anybody who
tries to restore the old balance,
wants to snuff us out of existance.

Miller : Which establishment?

Snake: It won't be a particular country or
ideology that hunts us.

Miller : Who, then?

Snake: We're gonna be fighting the biggest
beast of all - the times. Ten years
ago, the times rejected The Boss...
and killed her.

And now we're the ones being tested.

Will the times erase us?
Or work with us?

It's gonna be a lonely battle... No
good or evil, no winners or losers.
Business will have to wait.

The question we have to ask ourselves
now is, can we survive long enough to
see the 21st century?

Miller: I'm with you, Boss. We'll see
how it turns out, together.

Snake: The hunt is on, Kaz, and the whole
world's on our tail. Assemble the men!

This is from Peacewalker. Does this sound like the same Big Boss?

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Big Boss at the end of Peace Walker sounds like he's totally prepared to take on the whole world even if he damns himself in the process.

Then he takes a 9 year nap, and learns from the guy who runs the whole world that some jerk wants him dead so another guy has been set up to take the heat. Okay, catch you later, say hi to Kaz for me.

haha, this ending gets more stupid every day.

 

[Salsa]

it is a bit nuts that Peace Walker had more variety than this

don't get me wrong tho this is still a much better game than PW

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Well, you tell me. This is Big Boss' final speech to his men in Peace Walker. Let's not derail this with a Hayter's performance discussion, just pay attention to the words and the attitude, and tell me if this Big Boss is a man who would do what he did in TPP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMilA34KGXw

Maybe he says this after TPP
Maybe that's why Big Boss sounds much older-ish than he normally does.

Plus the Outer Heaven name drop.

it is a bit nuts that Peace Walker had more variety than this

don't get me wrong tho this is still a much better game than PW

PW had 5 Chapters.
Not 1 and a half.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It was a smart plan to get the heat off him and buy him some time to achieve his dream which he might not have been able to with Zero on his tail all the time. That doesn't make him a coward.. It was a smart move.

Considering it was Zero's plan, I have to imagine that wasn't super likely.

It also further complicates things. In order to take the heat off Big Boss, he has to publicly and outwardly be Big Boss. But at the same time, Big Boss goes back to America and becomes head of FOX Hound...despite if not concurrently but at least immediately prior running a terrorist organization in the Seychelles that everyone who escapes from says is full of crazy murderers?

 

[akidnamededdy]

Are both of you seriously suggesting BB is a coward? that's hilarious, there also almost an hour of tapes explaining the whole shit.

I mean, at face value, he wakes up after a coma and hears "Hey man there are some PEOPLE out to kill you dead, but look we set up this other guy to think he's you and to look like you so he can get shot at while you embezzle the shit out of some funds to make a fortress in the wilderness," and his response is almost "GREAT IDEA SNIFF YOU JERKS LATER."

And it wasn't exactly a smart plan either since it came from the guy who, for all he knows, put him there in the first place.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Idk what people want, BB revealing he was secretly behind a base in Africa in the mid 90s is how it all began. To have him doing it all openly would just be another huge retcon.

 

[Ishida]

Maybe he says this after TPP
Maybe that's why Big Boss sounds much older-ish than he normally does.

Plus the Outer Heaven name drop.

No, this is right after the ending. Big Boss and Kaz have a conversation about this, and then Big Boss tells Kaz to "assemble the men" (For the speech).

 

[Kevin Shields]

All of this Kojima or Konamis fault is kind of obnoxious when they created one hell of a game that plays better than about 99% of games out there, has a shit ton of content, and some of the best "holy shit" unscripted moments I've ever had in a video game. We should compartmentalize what worked and what didn't work cause Phantom Pain is a hell of a game despite its shortcomings.

I thought Gaf was big on gameplay over story? And I know MGS is known for long ass cutscenes and story, but this game certainly changed directions. I can see people being upset with a narrative game like Heavy Rain where the twist ruined stuff but this game is clearly gameplay first. Kojima needs some love in this thread for creating an excellent game.

 

[EatChildren]

So what was Zero getting at anyway? Like I understand he has a hard-on for BB and doesn't really want to kill him, would rather him rejoin. But in PW it culminates with his plan to give BB an ultimatum; get back together or I'll make the entire world hate you and seek out your destruction.

BB foils this plan, but exactly that happens anyway thanks to the attack on Mother Base, and then Zero is all "nooooooo don't hurt BB I'll make a pretend BB to get killed instead".

Phocks is right; Zero is the crazy ex.

 

[Raytow]

I mean, at face value, he wakes up after a coma and hears "Hey man there are some PEOPLE out to kill you dead, but look we set up this other guy to think he's you and to look like you so he can get shot at while you embezzle the shit out of some funds to make a fortress in the wilderness," and his response is almost "GREAT IDEA SNIFF YOU JERKS LATER."

And it wasn't exactly a smart plan either since it came from the guy who, for all he knows, put him there in the first place.

Zero wasn't part of the GZ clusterfuck that was all on Skullface and probably Huey the little shit.

 

[Nintendoga]

Big Boss hated the Les Effants Terribles project yet he's perfectly fine with Zero doing it again only with one of his own men.

A lot sure can change in 9 years.....when you're in a coma.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

So what was Zero getting at anyway? Like I understand he has a hard-on for BB and doesn't really want to kill him, would rather him rejoin. But in PW it culminates with his plan to give BB an ultimatum; get back together or I'll make the entire world hate you and seek out your destruction.

BB foils this plan, but exactly that happens anyway thanks to the attack on Mother Base, and then Zero is all "nooooooo don't hurt BB I'll make a pretend BB to get killed instead".

Phocks is right; Zero is the crazy ex.

Zero is Joker and Big Boss is Robin.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

All of this Kojima or Konamis fault is kind of obnoxious when they created one hell of a game that plays better than about 99% of games out there, has a shit ton of content, and some of the best "holy shit" unscripted moments I've ever had in a video game. We should compartmentalize what worked and what didn't work cause Phantom Pain is a hell of a game despite its shortcomings.

I thought Gaf was big on gameplay over story? And I know MGS is known for long ass cutscenes and story, but this game certainly changed directions. I can see people being upset with a narrative game like Heavy Rain where the twist ruined stuff but this game is clearly gameplay first. Kojima needs some love in this thread for creating an excellent game.

I've praised the game a lot, I think it's one of the best games of the year.

I feel no obligation to balance out every criticism I have with self-esteem puffing compliments because you get upset only hearing negativity.

 

[Salsa]

why did zero bother with clones if he can just hypnotize people into thinking they're someone else

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

No, this is right after the ending. Big Boss and Kaz have a conversation about this, and then Big Boss tells Kaz to "assemble the men" (For the speech).

Yeah your right.